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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
325
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Posted - 2013.02.22 00:15:00 -
[121] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Carebears: Minimizing War Decs: 1) Never post on my main, ever. 2) Small corp and don't aggressively recruit: 3) NEVER undock during war, EVER! So in other words, evey war dec ever laid against you has been devastatingly successful, and continues to be even after they end.
LHA Tarawa wrote:2) Being prepared to jump into PVP ships, does not protect against many of the tricks these losers use, like logging off in a belt Oho, and you feel the need to throw in an insult because you're so butthurt over it. Makes me wish I could wardec you too.
LHA Tarawa wrote:Unfortunately, too many of those PVPers are wasting too much time wringing their hands over the fact that some players are not interested in PVP. Actually, they are 'wringing their hands' over the fact that carebears demand immunity from other players.
LHA Tarawa wrote:You say I have nothing to offer EVE except the money from my subscription. Ummmm,,,,, And what do you think EVE is? It is a commercial enterprise that exists to make money for the company that operates it. SO, what you are saying is that the only thing I have to offer EVE is the ONLY thing that EVE exists for!
Confirmation (as if confirmation was needed) that as a risk-averse carebear you haven't even the first clue of what EVE is about. The only thing the players have to offer EVE is subscription money? By Zeus, I've finally heard it all.
But, you know, up until this point I don't have a problem with your actions or attitudes. I have no issue with you, how did someone put it, 'eating the sand'. You do what you like and entertain me by crying on the forums. All is well so far. It's here...
LHA Tarawa wrote:That is not a problem, it is working as designed. CCP won't change it, because it is the NPC corps and ability to reform my player corp that keep me, and the other carebears that will not have play style dictated to us, playing this game. ...here that you turn into a cancer on the game that should be removed. The one group of players who demand immunity from everyone else. It wouldn't be an issue except that, you're right, CCP do and will listen. The one group in the game that wants to minimize player interaction is the one is the one which is historically most successful in getting other peoples' playstyles nerfed or removed at their request.
Anyway, no real point to this post, was just reading through and accumulated some responses as I went. Came expecting entertainment, left satisfied. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
CJ Dashto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.02.22 01:10:00 -
[122] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:I just wanted to stop by and let you know that your tears are especially delicious.
Glad you could interpret tears out of that. Time for a new meme. I hear Chuck Norris references are popular too.
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Jitatrade hubcheck
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.22 01:56:00 -
[123] - Quote
I just came along this thread and have to spend my 10 cents, please dont mind my english, i-¦m not a native :)
Crumplecorn wrote:So in other words, evey war dec ever laid against you has been devastatingly successful, and continues to be even after they end.
If u think a war is successful if the victim is forced to "dodge" the Wardec, then it is. But let me say that: he dont care. He really dont. Because its mostly just his way of earning ISK, many of them just use these characters to earn money for pvp. But even if not couldn-¦t he care less about the profit he lose. He just switch over to NPC-Stations (just a example) and get 10 billions instead of 15. Well, so the producer missed a little profit and still have more then enough to pay at least for his PLEX, but the wardeccer sits and waits... and waits... and waits... u get the point ? Sometimes he get a untanked badger or a sleeping hauler, but well... if u call waiting for that fun... i guess u can also go mining
Also i have to ask some people here about the "risk-averse"-thing: isnt the one who do the wardec also a real hard risk-averse player ? Is he realy "hardcore-PvP" when he do highsec-wars with a nearly-unscannable booster-loki on a savespot, loads of Factionmodules, neutral Scouts (which nobody can engage - because they are ofc in a NPC-Corp), neutral Logistics (oh, wait... in a npc-corp) etc. ? I dont whine about it, im just curious why some people are bitching about the "highsec-carebear-cowards" while nearly all of the highsec-wardeccers involve every possible option so they will never lose any ship. I-¦m sure a lot less people would ***** around when the wadeccers would try >not< to use every possible way to secure a green killboard. But well... i never met someone like that. All of them used these things and never even dared to fight against something that even could be a little thread to them.
Fyi - im not pewpew-denying guy, i lose way more ships a week then others do in a couple of months. My killboard is deep-red, because i even jump into 1vs10, just because i might get that single ******* interceptor which name i dont like. But in my opinion "PvP" involve at least 2 things: first the stupidity of one side (e.g. a hauler with billions of cargo, a guy who dont scout his hauler in low/null, a afk-miner, a ninja in WH etc.), proving that he/she is too dumb for what he/she is actualy doing or second at least a little possibility that >both< sides can lose a ship from time to time. A highsec-wardeccer try to minimize his risk at least as much as the highsec-carebear does.
So bitching around about the so-called-risk-averse-coward-carebears and dont saying a word about this wannabe-l33t-pvp-practice might be a little out of relation. Of course a risk have to be there, but not just for one side (yeah, now come the "hire a merc or shoot back" - fraction want to interfere now, but realy... we all know what follows - the wardeccer also stay docked or go into a npc-corp, i tried it way too oftern). Many trader / producer have shitloads of ISK inside the market-pvp, way more the average EVE-player earn in weeks of missioning. Nothing is 100%-secure here either. Just because it does-¦nt make "BOOM" when he makes a mistake (he loses loads of isk instead without any insurance covering a part of it), he is a coward ?
:tldr: stop whining around about the risk-averse carebears, highsec-wardeccer put at least as much effort into lowering their risk as the smart carebears do. I heard the germans have a word for people like that: "Gutmensch". Tears not included, im too rich to cry about wannabe-pirates in highsec.
To pick up the spirit: came in, expect butthurt-wannabe-highsecpirates, left satisfied. (and expecting npc-corp-mimi because im posting with a alt - get over it, my main will never post in this forum) |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2855
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 02:15:00 -
[124] - Quote
Jitatrade hubcheck wrote:So bitching around about the so-called-risk-averse-coward-carebears and dont saying a word about this wannabe-l33t-pvp-practice might be a little out of relation. And what about those of us who also call risk averse PVPers carebears? I detest the station-hugging no-risk "PVP" that some of these guys engage in. They're the masters of fighting on trade hub undocks behind the shield of a half-dozen logis to ensure they can dock up if they get in over their heads. I've sat 200 km off a station with a can beside me, daring a half-dozen of those winners to warp to it and fight me. Not a single one would leave the safety of their station...because out there, mistakes are permanent. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
982
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 03:24:00 -
[125] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:For every one of your accounts that you subscribe by PLEX, that's a PLEX that didn't go to someone else. And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear.
Do you build all your own ships, modules and ammo tough guy? No? Didn't think so. Golly, I wonder where they came from, then?
Fact: Without carebears cranking out the cheap goods all the time then all the PvPers would quit in a month when a frigate shoots up to ten million ISK.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
144
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 04:23:00 -
[126] - Quote
Jitatrade hubcheck wrote:Sometimes he get a untanked badger or a sleeping hauler, but well... if u call waiting for that fun... i guess u can also go mining
Hehe...sounds like gatecamping. Sit on a gate for 4 hours, hit F1 and *maybe* make a paycheck.
Vs. mining, where you sit at belts for 4 hours, hit F1 and at least you're guaranteed a payout. "Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
Anderron Shi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.02.22 04:34:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote:Jitatrade hubcheck wrote:Sometimes he get a untanked badger or a sleeping hauler, but well... if u call waiting for that fun... i guess u can also go mining Hehe...sounds like gatecamping. Sit on a gate for 4 hours, hit F1 and *maybe* make a paycheck. Vs. mining, where you sit at belts for 4 hours, hit F1 and at least you're guaranteed a payout. Yeah but mining is very boring; little risk, little reward. Get some! |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
136
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Posted - 2013.02.22 04:38:00 -
[128] - Quote
Anderron Shi wrote:Ditra Vorthran wrote:Jitatrade hubcheck wrote:Sometimes he get a untanked badger or a sleeping hauler, but well... if u call waiting for that fun... i guess u can also go mining Hehe...sounds like gatecamping. Sit on a gate for 4 hours, hit F1 and *maybe* make a paycheck. Vs. mining, where you sit at belts for 4 hours, hit F1 and at least you're guaranteed a payout. Yeah but mining is very boring; little risk, little reward.
You can always challenge other miners in the belt to duels. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
144
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 04:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
Anderron Shi wrote:Yeah but mining is very boring; little risk, little reward.
Correction: Mining is very boring *for you*. And important distinction. I tend to find it rather relaxing.
And if I want to mine with some excitement, I can always mine in low sec. "Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
522
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Posted - 2013.02.22 04:59:00 -
[130] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote: Fact: Without carebears cranking out the cheap goods all the time then all the PvPers would quit in a month when a frigate shoots up to ten million ISK.
If only there was some sort of "invisible hand" that would guide players into doing activities that would make these prices lower and at the same time make those players a lot of money.
By the way, a lot of people want to see higher prices because that means losing a battleship or T3 cruiser fleet isn't meaningless anymore. |
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Lin Suizei
93
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Posted - 2013.02.22 05:00:00 -
[131] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Fact: Without carebears cranking out the cheap goods all the time then all the PvPers would quit in a month when a frigate shoots up to ten million ISK.
Wrong.
Without carebears AFK mining in highsec, we would use our social skills to arrange supplies/ships from other (better) players at a mutually agreed price. Please do not be a risk-averse coward. |
Ohishi
Apocalypse Reign
21
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Posted - 2013.02.22 05:04:00 -
[132] - Quote
Why is it that you people think that everyone has to go out and shoot at someones ship to have fun in this game? There is plenty of stuff to do that doesn't involve shooting other players. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
523
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 05:07:00 -
[133] - Quote
The fun you have can and most certainly will interfere with the fun someone else is having. They might not like that. |
Ohishi
Apocalypse Reign
21
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Posted - 2013.02.22 05:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:Fact: Without carebears cranking out the cheap goods all the time then all the PvPers would quit in a month when a frigate shoots up to ten million ISK. Wrong. Without carebears AFK mining in highsec, we would use our social skills to arrange supplies/ships from other (better) players at a mutually agreed price. Actually what would happen is you would go out and mine yourself for the ships just like we did back when the game was still new. Otherwise you would not have a ship to fly. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1879
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 05:18:00 -
[135] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Unfortunately, too many of those PVPers are wasting too much time wringing their hands over the fact that some players are not interested in PVP.
Do you know what happens to a game that don't?
Pandas.
"I'd rather have other players-áget shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave |
Anderron Shi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 05:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
Ohishi wrote:Why is it that you people think that everyone has to go out and shoot at someones ship to have fun in this game? There is plenty of stuff to do that doesn't involve shooting other players. Like what, role playing? Get some! |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
984
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 06:00:00 -
[137] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Without carebears AFK mining in highsec, we would use our social skills to arrange supplies/ships from other (better) players at a mutually agreed price.
Please warn us before you say things like that. Now I've got soda in my nostrils.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
232
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 06:03:00 -
[138] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:You do not need to bother about him. The way he plays his game means that he takes no risks. He can talk about it, but he will always play it safe. He prides himself with it, because he has settled with his nature, and because of this will he be of no influence to the rest of EVE. He will be setting his prices after those of others, he will mine what others need the most and he will build what is in demand. You will simply not notice him other than when he makes a thread on the forums about himself. It is a bit like in the movie The Matrix. He is what Neo would have been had Neo chosen the other pill and stayed in his cubicle. You cannot help but laugh when you think about it.
If he's not trolling then it's safe to say this is how he feels about RL too and HE IS 'that guy in the cubicle whose name you don't even care to remember'. |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises Project Wildfire
274
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 06:05:00 -
[139] - Quote
Oddly enough i was also one of the ones that were disapointed that Monk's thread got locked because it was an interesting subject.
But anyway.. This thread has also moved into a more.. "PVP IS AWESOME! Your a bad player if you dont agree" and the other side saying "I dont mind PVP but i dont see the point in blowing up noobs and industrials". For some reason it seems to be very hard for both sides to understand the other, and trust me i know im at fault for this as well. Thus i will try to actually.. explain what MIGHT be why people enjoy what they do in the game. Please note i might be completely wrong in some aspects since i have never done it and can only base it on what i have seen on forums (not the best place for accurate information) or talking to people (which ofc can also lie).
Mining = At one point i actually liked to mine. I enjoyed having some peace and quiet, do it while watching TV, or reading the forums or whatever or small chat with corp members in corp chat or TS and felt a sense of accomplishment when i had enough to build *whatever* either to sell or for my self. Now i only mine if a bunch of people drag me kicking and screaming from the station and they better be drunk out of their minds and ready to entertain me with drunken singing on TS. The social aspect makes it entertaining, not the activety it self.
Trading = Trading involves some risk. You might have a really good call and walk away with a lot, or you make a really bad one and you loose it all. Think about it like playing chess i guess.. People who are good at it can pride them selfes on the fact that they understand the system and can make a fortune on it while they might make plans for weeks in the future and sit and chew their nails while seeing if their predictions were right.
PVP = This one is harder since there are so many forms of PVP (talking about the ship blowing up PVP here btw). You have the fleet fights. Ofc these are exiting for many! You are fighting for a cause, working together/against 100ds if not 1000ds of other players and you know that what your doing is "important" to you and your group. Then you have the suecide ganking style. With this i imagion the hunt is a big part of the fun. Finding a suitable target and then the gamble on weather or not they will be down before concord gets to them, and seeing how much drops. Its a gamble. Small/solo fights.. The adrealine rush! I doubt much can beat that in any game out there. War deccing industry corps.. well ok i admit.. i struggle to see the enjoyment in this exept the "tears" and ofc a sense of accomplishment if the corp war decced disbands.
Misissions = This one is one i will be more willing to do. Its a good ISK income, and dirverse enough to not be to boring if i dont do it every single day, and it allows for both solo and group play. For younger players its also a good way to get a sense of how to follow commands, marking targets, having to pay attention to triggers and so on.
Incursions = I will admit i know nothing about them but i imagion its basically for the ISK and the sense of accomplishment and group activety. Many of these you can join even if your not in the same corp/alliance thus its perfect for those who like being in a solo corp or NPC corp.
But well.. i know that no matter how many threads are made on this subject it will always be an argument were one side says they are better then the other. In a game like EVE arguments like these are needed, but i also wish that people would be less defensive about it and be more willing to have a constructive discussion about it. As it stands currenly.. i can see many players simply decide to never do one or the other because they dislike the attitude that general group has. But then again.. these forums would be increddibly boring to read if there was no fighting going on and everyone agreed on everything Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
39
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Posted - 2013.02.22 06:12:00 -
[140] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote: 1) Never post on my main, ever.
This is good advice for people not wanting to draw attention. Its also good for making goons cry.
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Zack Korth
Poked
236
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Posted - 2013.02.22 06:34:00 -
[141] - Quote
General Nusense wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: 1) Never post on my main, ever.
This is good advice for people not wanting to draw attention. Its also good for making goons cry.
i do the opposite,always on the main.. in fact zack korth is my real name.. i often fantasize about someone showing up to my house to try to kill me, that would be some boss PvP |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Silent Requiem
35
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Posted - 2013.02.22 06:36:00 -
[142] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote: 1) I have no interest in PVP.
Hi again LHA.
I would just like to point something out here. I am going to assume that you as an industrialist make and sell ships. Did you know that you are PVPing during that process?
When you create a sell order, you are selling your product aginst other players, competing for a customers business. That is Player vs Player interaction. I'm also guessing that you mine the ore you need to make those products. Now depending on the system you are in, you might be competing with 1 or 100 other miners (even more in the popular systems). How many times have you been to a belt and found it completely mined out? The race to get the good ore is Player vs Player interaction. What if you buy the goods you need to make the items? Guess what? You are competing in a Player vs Player interaction again to buy them at the best price possible. But what if you are a hauler and you move goods? Well you guessed it this too involves Player vs Player interaction. If you move the goods of the open contracts, then you are competing to get the good contracts first. If you work for Push or Red Frog this can be doubly true.
You say you have no interest in PVP, yet you openly say you PVP when you sell the things you make from the minerals you mine and the goods you move.
I know that you say that people who are not PVPers shouldn't be the target of PVP focused players but guess what: when you signed up for an Eve account you signed up for a game that is all about PVP. I know that fighting might not be your cup of tea, but every time you undock in this harsh place we call New Eden, you are risking becoming a target. You have agreed to that by making an account and logging into the game.
Yes there are mechanics in place that restrict you becoming a target in highsec, but they only restrict, not stop completely. I've been on the receiving end of a suicide gank this week and lost just a little over 500 million in one death, but I'm not complaining. In fact I'm beating my self up for it because I got complacent and ignored the steps I had in place to prevent that sort of stuff happening.
You may read this and think bah Dark is nothing but another PVPer looking to rain on my parade... You are wrong. I have been a market trader since I started in Eve. I made my first billion on the market. I mine and manufacture. I'm looking into invention right now. I have blown some ships up and flew with RvB for a while, but first and foremost I have always been a 'carebear.' But when I came to Eve it was in the understanding that it was a cut-throat and harsh environment, where danger was around every corner and you could die at any corner.
If you do bother to read this post, and I really hope you do, all I can say to end is this: You can complain all you want, but the people who suicide gank and hunt down indy players will do that till the day the server shuts down and there isn't anything you, me or CCP can do to change that. So instead of getting on the forums and preaching that you aren't interested in PVP, adapt. Change what you do to make yourself less of a target. Hell if I can do it, anyone can. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3128
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 06:40:00 -
[143] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:Do you know what happens to a game that don't?
In that game, the makers listened too much to the raiders: so levelling was sped up (so raiders could raid more with different alts). Then they listened too much to the casual players who were complaining that content was inaccessible, by making all the content more accessible (as opposed to adding more content that was accessible to casual players).
So on the one hand, if the players don't speak up about aspects of the game that they enjoy being diminished, nothing will stop that aspect of the game being diminished. On the other hand, if you speak up about an aspect of the game you don't like, be careful what you wish for.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
243
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Posted - 2013.02.22 06:46:00 -
[144] - Quote
What this boils down to is that all PvP in EvE is consensual, assuming you are properly aware of game mechanics. I, like our OP hero, PvP frequently, though I prefer ships to the marketplace. But every piece of PvP I engage in is consensual, in that I know the risks I am getting into... I am not always guaranteed of victory, but between D-scan, MWD-cloak, and the knowledge that when I undock I accept that I will sometimes jump into a camp that will catch me, there is zero hostile player interaction in this game that I am not accepting the risk of.
If a player desires no risk of having his ship blown up, and has the means and knowledge to do so, there are a multitude of ways to accomplish the goal - don't criticize them because they have a different goal, but rather accept that they have found the best way to accomplish their goals within the limitations of the game rules. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5384
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 08:23:00 -
[145] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Demolishar wrote:For every one of your accounts that you subscribe by PLEX, that's a PLEX that didn't go to someone else. And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear. Do you build all your own ships, modules and ammo tough guy? No? Didn't think so. Golly, I wonder where they came from, then? Fact: Without carebears cranking out the cheap goods all the time then all the PvPers would quit in a month when a frigate shoots up to ten million ISK. Hi. I crank out billions in goods a day yet my corp was the most destructive in high sec last year. Your fact is wrong |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 08:23:00 -
[146] - Quote
Well, this thread has proven only one thing to me - no matter what MMO you play, the PvE vs PvP threads all boil down to the same thing:
Carebears: I like to build things PeeVeePee'ers: I like to break things Carebears: You're bad PeeVeePee'ers: Nuh uh, You're bad. Carebears: No, you're wrong. PeeVeePee'ers: No, You are the ones that are wrong.
And around and around in circles we go, cue the Benny Hill Music. |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Silent Requiem
35
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Posted - 2013.02.22 08:28:00 -
[147] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:Demolishar wrote:For every one of your accounts that you subscribe by PLEX, that's a PLEX that didn't go to someone else. And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear. Do you build all your own ships, modules and ammo tough guy? No? Didn't think so. Golly, I wonder where they came from, then? Fact: Without carebears cranking out the cheap goods all the time then all the PvPers would quit in a month when a frigate shoots up to ten million ISK. Hi. I crank out billions in goods a day yet my corp was the most destructive in high sec last year. Your fact is wrong
This is so true. |
Le Badass
Zealots of Bob
59
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Posted - 2013.02.22 09:14:00 -
[148] - Quote
Interesting to read about Eve from the perspective of an industrialist. Well done, OP, you've made Eve an enjoyable experience on your own terms - It's more than many players ever achieve (although they may not be aware of it). |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
436
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Posted - 2013.02.22 10:27:00 -
[149] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:You say that EVE is about ship-to-ship PVP
Stopped reading here because no
Eve isn't just ship to ship pvp, it's just pvp. The second you log in and do any action that interacts with a planet, market, space, contracts etc. It's player vs player
PI - because you're fighting for resources Manufacture - because you're fighting for resources Market - because you're fighting everyone else on the market to sell your wares for a decent price And then there's undocking where by doing so, you consent to interacting with everyone else in space.
Just because you don't believe all of that and more is pvp, doesn't mean it is.
Eve is pvp, deal with it. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
62
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 11:01:00 -
[150] - Quote
Demolishar wrote: For every one of your accounts that you subscribe by PLEX, that's a PLEX that didn't go to someone else. And frankly, anyone else is better than a non-content creating, pvp-abstaining, highsec carebear.
lol, You sound like You'd be happier with a purely NPC seeded market. :) There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
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