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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Arcosian
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
58
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Posted - 2013.03.05 06:09:00 -
[901] - Quote
Tesal wrote: 1. It would take years to build enough outposts to get production where the nullsec people want them. Its probable that POS are the solution to that. 2. Stuff 3. Making outposts expensive to operate would leave them unable to compete with hi-sec. Not a solution. 4. Removing jump freighters would make null logistics impossible. This isn't the old days when you could escort a freighter convoy into null. PL and everyone else would hot drop you and massacre everyone. JF are already expensive to use and very expensive to buy, its probably best to leave it at that.
tl;dr Your insane.
*edit: I put a bounty on you and your corp. I hope you get blown up.
1. That's why I said make them cheaper than they already are so they would be easier/faster to build.
2. Was to make them useful in null and more attractive than highsec stations since there is no decent infrastructure in null as it is unless you are in a corp with manufacturing POS. For null to truly be fixed indy wise alot of people need to have access to build/research slots as it stands outposts are the best way for that.
3. They can't be free since they are a station. Plus why should null have to rely/compete with highsec if they can be somewhat self sufficient?
4. So you want null indy fixed but still want to use JF to move stuff to/from empire? Then what "fix" do you have in mind?
In all of these "fix null nerf high" threads I've not seen 1 good post from nullsec residents about how to fix it. It always ends up being some convoluted argument to nerf highsec industry without affecting nullsec. I'm sorry but that just can't be done. |
Tesal
233
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Posted - 2013.03.05 06:14:00 -
[902] - Quote
Arcosian wrote:Tesal wrote: 1. It would take years to build enough outposts to get production where the nullsec people want them. Its probable that POS are the solution to that. 2. Stuff 3. Making outposts expensive to operate would leave them unable to compete with hi-sec. Not a solution. 4. Removing jump freighters would make null logistics impossible. This isn't the old days when you could escort a freighter convoy into null. PL and everyone else would hot drop you and massacre everyone. JF are already expensive to use and very expensive to buy, its probably best to leave it at that.
tl;dr Your insane.
*edit: I put a bounty on you and your corp. I hope you get blown up.
1. That's why I said make them cheaper than they already are so they would be easier/faster to build. 2. Was to make them useful in null and more attractive than highsec stations since there is no decent infrastructure in null as it is unless you are in a corp with manufacturing POS. For null to truly be fixed indy wise alot of people need to have access to build/research slots as it stands outposts are the best way for that. 3. They can't be free since they are a station. Plus why should null have to rely/compete with highsec if they can be somewhat self sufficient? 4. So you want null indy fixed but still want to use JF to move stuff to/from empire? Then what "fix" do you have in mind? In all of these "fix null nerf high" threads I've not seen 1 good post from nullsec residents about how to fix it. It always ends up being some convoluted argument to nerf highsec industry without affecting nullsec. I'm sorry but that just can't be done.
I have nothing better to do with my isk than place bounties. Its my favorite thing.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3904
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Posted - 2013.03.05 08:06:00 -
[903] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: So you are selling lower quality equipment at a cheaper price but either way around they still own the equipment and are not renting it.
No, selling that stuff to manufacturers in China who in turn are used by western world to produce without owning the production facilities. A la Apple. End result, despite they don't own the facilities, those western brands produce stuff at lower price than other brands can do while owning the whole production chain with no third party. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4119
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Posted - 2013.03.05 08:50:00 -
[904] - Quote
Arcosian wrote:My thoughts for fixing null:
1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems. Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7972
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Posted - 2013.03.05 09:52:00 -
[905] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Arcosian wrote:My thoughts for fixing null:
1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems. Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND.
Outposts aren't related to sov.
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1737
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Posted - 2013.03.05 10:17:00 -
[906] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Frying Doom wrote: So you are selling lower quality equipment at a cheaper price but either way around they still own the equipment and are not renting it.
No, selling that stuff to manufacturers in China who in turn are used by western world to produce without owning the production facilities. A la Apple. End result, despite they don't own the facilities, those western brands produce stuff at lower price than other brands can do while owning the whole production chain with no third party. So those companies Apple for example are not producing anything are they? They are on selling goods manufactured by another, just like a trader in EvE and my proposal will not at all affect traders in EvE. EvE players have no voice. Just don't bother voting for the CSM, really its not worth the energy.
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Arcosian
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
58
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Posted - 2013.03.05 13:40:00 -
[907] - Quote
Tesal wrote: I have nothing better to do with my isk than place bounties. Its my favorite thing.
*edit. I decided to round up. Check your bounty.
*your alliance too.
Oh noes I guess we better disband the alliance and quit eve. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4122
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Posted - 2013.03.05 13:59:00 -
[908] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Arcosian wrote:My thoughts for fixing null:
1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems. Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND. Outposts aren't related to sov. ... Yes, yes they are...
Quote:An online TCU is invulnerable unless both of the following conditions are fulfilled:
- Sovereignty Blockade Units are anchored and onlined at more than 50% of the gates in the system.
- The sovereign entity over the system does not possess an Outpost/Conquerable Station nor an online Industrial Hub within the system.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide#Claiming_Sovereignty Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Tesal
233
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Posted - 2013.03.05 18:31:00 -
[909] - Quote
Arcosian wrote:Tesal wrote: I have nothing better to do with my isk than place bounties. Its my favorite thing.
*edit. I decided to round up. Check your bounty.
*your alliance too.
Oh noes I guess we better disband the alliance and quit eve.
Good idea.
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
265
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Posted - 2013.03.05 19:00:00 -
[910] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:But industry? The risk isn't defined by the same rules. Industrially highsec is more dangerous by role than in null. LMAO! Eh, no. Not even close. When was the last time someone killed all your S&I jobs, took your production slots, denied you access to all your blueprints and stockpiled materials? In fact, could you provide an example of this supposed higher danger in high? Oh, and the risks are most certainly defined by the same rules: what are you investing? What are the opportunities and probabilities of that investment coming to naught? The space you're in and the activity you're engaging in does not change how risk is defined. Quote:Which brings us back to full circle.... using some sort of risk versus reward to increase nullsec capabilities for industry is a fallacy. GǪbut you just said that the risks were higher in high, but if risk vs. reward is a fallacy, it means we can safely remove all that reward from high since the Gǣhigher risksGǥ (hahahahGǪ sorry, can't say that with a straight face) are not really meant to be rewarded anyway. Quote:In history when did that ever happen? Oh, pretty much from the industrial revolution and onwards. And no, it doesn't change how effort should be rewarded in this gameGǪ
Industry is defined by the market, not combat. Surely you know this. When did you need to fly to make anything? Or would you rather compare JF kills to highsec frieghter kills?
Investing? We all know that's laughable. The same nullsec industrialist got his stuff from highsec.. and why? Price. Your ilk say you are forced to go to highsec because it's smarter to. You aren't forced, it's just a wiser choice. Even at the cost of using that same JF to transport goods from highsec to null. Your own "risk vs reward" argument just defeated you at that point. Because it's SAFER to get your stuff out to null, because COSTwise, it makes more sense. From a logistics and cost pov.
Which I am not arguing. I don't think null should have equal (I hate that word in a paper rock scissor game) but it should have something SPECIFIC to the region, so it in fact does need rework. You know, like null should be able to build capitals and high shouldn't....
Just using risk vs reward as some sort of justification is... not the right way to try to convince anyone otherwise.
"I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3487
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Posted - 2013.03.05 20:30:00 -
[911] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Malcanis wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Arcosian wrote:My thoughts for fixing null:
1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems. Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND. Outposts aren't related to sov. Yes, yes they are... Quote:An online TCU is invulnerable unless both of the following conditions are fulfilled:
- Sovereignty Blockade Units are anchored and onlined at more than 50% of the gates in the system.
- The sovereign entity over the system does not possess an Outpost/Conquerable Station nor an online Industrial Hub within the system.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide#Claiming_Sovereignty Our FORTRESS DEKLEIN has outposts everywhere, so more structures for you to shoot if you decide to take the bold step of attacking us. I am a nullsec zealot. |
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