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Maximus Hashur
Vanus Technical Solutions Corp Covert Intervention
28
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Posted - 2013.02.24 18:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Does it affect missles and rockets? Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.-á Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!! |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
124
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Posted - 2013.02.24 18:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
No.
There was an idea to make them do that but it was shelved after a hundred million drakebears found out and the server room almost flooded with their tears. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
527
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Posted - 2013.02.24 18:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
They will .. eventually.
Probably after a tweak to the missile damage formula as they are already hampered by speed/sig .. turrets are too of course but not to the same degree (can usually do some fancy flying to reduce transversal). |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
582
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too. Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
834
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Posted - 2013.02.25 00:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too.
TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question.
To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans.
I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of.
But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
587
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Posted - 2013.02.25 00:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too. TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question. To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans. I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of. But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down.
I mean unbonused td's are op.
50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30 Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
834
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Posted - 2013.02.25 02:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Cearain wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too. TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question. To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans. I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of. But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down. I mean unbonused td's are op. 50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30
Maybe, but I think that would make them pretty useless. Even now they are often useless if you cant dictate range. They are often effective now because of what people are fitting to their ships.
If they become more common I expect people to fit their ships different.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
587
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Posted - 2013.02.25 03:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Cearain wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too. TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question. To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans. I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of. But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down. I mean unbonused td's are op. 50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30 Maybe, but I think that would make them pretty useless. Even now they are often useless if you cant dictate range. They are often effective now because of what people are fitting to their ships. If they become more common I expect people to fit their ships different.
Is a single damp very useful on an unbonused ship? Unbonused ewar is generally more annoying than crippling unless there is more than one mod. TD's are the exception to that. Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
834
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Posted - 2013.02.25 15:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Cearain wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Cearain wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too. TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question. To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans. I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of. But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down. I mean unbonused td's are op. 50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30 Maybe, but I think that would make them pretty useless. Even now they are often useless if you cant dictate range. They are often effective now because of what people are fitting to their ships. If they become more common I expect people to fit their ships different. Is a single damp very useful on an unbonused ship? Unbonused ewar is generally more annoying than crippling unless there is more than one mod. TD's are the exception to that.
Webs are pretty effective. Even a scram can be effective. If somone decides to fly a double mse, mwd merlin with blasters then meeting a punisher with a scram and ab will likely be crippling experience. Like I said allot of people are setting themselves up for having problems with a td due to the fits they are using.
Dictating range is part of just about all small gang pvp. TDs just add another tool in how you can do that.
That said even I can see kiting condors everywhere. And I think that is in part due to their immunity to tds. But I think its mostly due to an already insane agility and speed combined with off grid boosting that allows these ships a huge margin to orbit outside scram/web range. If we want to talk about I win buttons I think we should start there and have a long way to go before we get to unbonused tds.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
237
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Posted - 2013.02.25 15:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
TDs only work if you can control the range. As someone who enjoys using them I can say that they give you the edge, but they are also very often not overly useful unless you are all rolling out in kiting ships. Even TD'd destroyers are dangerous in web/scram range unless blaster/ac fit. A balancing approach shouldn't, imho, reduce the efficiency but rather address the cap cost. Slapping a Sensor Damp on a small ship - especially kiting ones - is going to be causing cap problems. TDs don't.
Speaking of damps: Ironically that works well against Condors with their abysmal locking range. Try a condor with that. It's the troll anti-condor condor Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
289
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Posted - 2013.02.25 15:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.
If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module. QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force Caldari State Capturing
185
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.
If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module.
This. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing mods (other then rigs) that would help project missiles out farther, or to allow them to move faster.
That being said, I don't oppose the idea of TD's for missiles. But it should be a different module, this way people should either have to carry a variety of them or know their opponent. |
Hidden Snake
Hidden Squid Society
276
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Posted - 2013.02.27 12:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.
If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module.
diferent module or diferent script ... anyway not a bad idea ;) |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
241
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Posted - 2013.02.27 13:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
The problem with TD is basically that if they introduce TD for missiles they have also to introduce something like Tracking Computers etc. for missiles too. And those have a lot of problems:
- Let's assume they allow TD to reduce missile speed this would also mean that a tracking computer should be allowed to raise missile speed. As far as I remember CCP has massive problems with missiles going faster then 10.000 m/s. So scrap this idea.
- Let's assume they allow TD to reduce missile flight time... this would make it even much easier to outrun missiles than it is already possible. Furthermore, CCP just nerved heavy missile range because they felt them being overpowered, so Tracking Computer which raise missile flight time would just revert this again.
- Let's assume they allow TD to raise the missile explosion radius... this would on the othe side mean that tracking computer should be allowed to reduce it. Imagine heavies with explosion radius of 60m... they will be absolute frigate murder. Seems too overpowered.
- Finally lets assume they allows TD to reduce missile explosion speed... okay Tracking computers would to the opposite which should be not too bad. But for TD's this is really not very much use since large missiles do already weak damage to fast targets.
Conclusion... there seems to be a lot of work for CCP to find a solution for missile disruption without completely breaking them or completely risking missiles get overpowered by counter measures to missile disruption ("tracking computers"). |
Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. Casoff
140
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Posted - 2013.02.27 14:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
than there is the point of design, missiles ships are more or less designed arround the fact they only have one Damage modifier option. now instead of BCU's they need to fit tracking computers and the like.
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Ohishi
Apocalypse Reign
39
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Posted - 2013.02.27 19:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.
If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module. Considering that TD have been this way since their inception, and then boosted when scripts came out, I doubt that we will see any nerf unless you have Falcon whine sized threads on the subject everyday. |
Ujio Sendai
Reclamation Technologies Libertus Coventu Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.03.13 13:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
I found this thread to be relevant to my question. In regards to missles mentioned in the OP what is the best means to avoid them once a fight has started. If td doesn't work on them what would be the best evasion? Does a fast small orbit affect missle accuracy? From my limited experience it seems missles can deal with higher orbit speeds than many other weapons.
Please enlighten me space clones. I have a light, but know not the way. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
846
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Posted - 2013.03.13 13:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ujio Sendai wrote:I found this thread to be relevant to my question. In regards to missles mentioned in the OP what is the best means to avoid them once a fight has started. If td doesn't work on them what would be the best evasion? Does a fast small orbit affect missle accuracy? From my limited experience it seems missles can deal with higher orbit speeds than many other weapons.
Please enlighten me space clones. I have a light, but know not the way.
Speed and sig radius effect missile damage applied.
Tight orbits will mean you go slower (so you take more damage) and it will mean your guns will miss for tracking.(so you apply less damage)
Generally when fighting a missile boat try give yourself as wide an orbit as you can without losing much dps due to range. Also I generally overheat my ab to further mitigate the damage. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
251
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Posted - 2013.03.13 14:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why should a mid slot module costing that many CPU not have a significant effect on the ennemy ship ? There is no reason to use a useless module, and affecting significantly the ennemy ship or your ship is the definition of useful. That's why there is no ECM outside of bonused ships : because they are useless without bonuses. And that's why SD are so rare : they are only useful in very specific situations.
EWAR provide deepness to the game because it allow to break the tank/dps/mobility scheeme. That's a good thing. |
Dan Carter Murray
395
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Posted - 2013.03.13 15:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
a single tracking enhancer should null the effect of an unbonused TD IF YOU DON'T FLY AMARR THEN YOU DON'T LIKE A CHALLENGE SO GET ******
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
248
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Posted - 2013.03.13 16:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ujio Sendai wrote:I found this thread to be relevant to my question. In regards to missles mentioned in the OP what is the best means to avoid them once a fight has started. If td doesn't work on them what would be the best evasion? Does a fast small orbit affect missle accuracy? From my limited experience it seems missles can deal with higher orbit speeds than many other weapons.
Please enlighten me space clones. I have a light, but know not the way.
There are basically only two ways to avoid missile damage: a) Stay at range (20km) and fly as fast as possible (> 4000m/s) and make the enemy run for you. In many cases small missiles and rockets will not hit you because you will simply out-run them. b) If you need to be close then make sure you orbit as fast as possible while having an as small signature as possible. Works nicely with AB + Armor Tank ships against larger missile types and torpedos etc. (Doesn't work well against rockets because they have such a small base signature). |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1898
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Posted - 2013.03.13 17:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:a single tracking enhancer should null the effect of an unbonused TD
Absolutely NO...
You don't fit TE's to counter TD's.... You fit TD's to give your ship better damage projection and tracking, something which is very useful by itself...
I agree that TDs are a powerful form of EWAR.... but so what... The TD is meant to mitigate damage by destroying your ability to hit a target... and they do so appropriately effectively now... You can always fly closer, or farther, to improve your ability to apply damage, and if your opponent is fitting a TD, that's one less mid they have for fitting range-control mods.
TD's are most effective when you're using the wrong weapon for the target. i.e.... a frigate can use TD's to get under a cruisers guns, and this is a GOOD THING.... It provides an exploitable drawback to the bigger-is-better mantra, that fundamentally helps balance out the game. One unbonused TD is generally not that potent except when it's exploiting an underlying weakness. Range TD small autocannons, and it's short range becomes viciously short... Track TD 425mm autocannons, and it's poor tracking becomes viciously poor.
RSD's attempt to do the same thing as TD's... and work extremely effectively when there is a situation they can exploit...
If/when TD's alter missiles... then we can discuss whether they are too potent... but they certainly aren't broken in their current incarnation! |
Maximus Hashur
Vanus Technical Solutions Corp Covert Intervention
31
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Posted - 2013.03.15 01:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.
If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module.
They do nothing against missle/rocket boats hence the reason i started this post. They are anything but effective 100% of the time. With easily half the pilots out there flying CNH, Kestrel, Corax, Talwar and the like, they provide an edge to turret weapons only.
Also - i hate condors Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.-á Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!! |
Radhe Amatin
Caldari High Prime P R I M E
8
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Posted - 2013.03.16 18:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
50% my shiny A**.
its 38% without turret destabilization skill and 47% with turret destabilization skill at level 5
52.6% with skills at level 5 and 2x tracking diagnostic subroutines rigs.
Stats for unbonused ship with a TD tech 2
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Maximus Hashur
Vanus Technical Solutions Corp Covert Intervention
31
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Posted - 2013.03.16 19:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Radhe Amatin wrote:50% my shiny A**.
its 38% without turret destabilization skill and 47% with turret destabilization skill at level 5
52.6% with skills at level 5 and 2x tracking diagnostic subroutines rigs.
Stats for unbonused ship with a TD tech 2
Holy **** you just made my day. I didnt realize there was a skill to increase the effectiveness of TD's. Trainin that **** up right now. Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.-á Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!! |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1083
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Posted - 2013.03.16 21:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
The only realm where unbonused TD really cause grief is in small scale combat with frigates. I come across them quite frequently in FW. My solutions include:
Drone Boats. Drones don't care about your ewar. Missile Boats. 'Nuff said. Sniper Boats. Load a longer range ammo. Nano Boats. Chase them down.
Finally - if you are in a slow brawler you can try to catch them on a plex gate. That is a coin toss sometimes. But if you see a condor on short scan an stay you know the gamble! |
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