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Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
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Posted - 2013.02.25 08:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen. |
Mia Rev
Big Jug Industries
1
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Posted - 2013.02.25 10:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen.
Have you watched anything posted on youtube? Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XaQxX4YqN4 |
Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
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Posted - 2013.02.25 10:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mia Rev wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen. Have you watched anything posted on youtube? Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XaQxX4YqN4
I understand the basics. I'm trying to actually plan my colonies, and am having trouble with that aspect. Mainly I suck at spreadsheets, and can't seem to find a decent tool to plan colonies with. |
Grizzly Kreyszig
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
0
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Posted - 2013.02.25 10:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Mia Rev wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen. Have you watched anything posted on youtube? Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XaQxX4YqN4 I understand the basics. I'm trying to actually plan my colonies, and am having trouble with that aspect. Mainly I suck at spreadsheets, and can't seem to find a decent tool to plan colonies with.
Trial and error. There is no point in using spreadsheets unless you have a ton of planets. |
Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
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Posted - 2013.02.25 10:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Mia Rev wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen. Have you watched anything posted on youtube? Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XaQxX4YqN4 I understand the basics. I'm trying to actually plan my colonies, and am having trouble with that aspect. Mainly I suck at spreadsheets, and can't seem to find a decent tool to plan colonies with. Trial and error. There is no point in using spreadsheets unless you have a ton of planets.
Well I plan on having at least 15 of them. And if that's successful then it will probably double depending on the amount of work involved to keep things running at decent efficiency. I'm currently training a PI character (though I used to have a perfect PI character), so I'm not really able to use trial and error. I also used the trial and error method before and ended up with a clusterfuck. So I'm trying to plan things out this time, and also run some calculations to figure out whether I would make more isk/month buying p1 materials and turning them into p4 via factory planets. Or buying the cheaper p1 materials and producing the more expensive ones myself, then combining them via factory planets. Or producing everything myself. Etc. |
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
121
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Posted - 2013.02.25 10:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
A graphical Planetary simulator... there is none. Only way is to go to the Test server and try it there for free. Blog |-áTutorials | Youtube "I donGÇÖt know everything, I just know what I know." |
Dex Thunakar
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
17
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Posted - 2013.02.25 11:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen.
You're not making any sense... you say you know all the basics and are only having trouble making a plan for all your colonies. Then you go on to say CCP doesn't document a damn thing.... but how can CCP document a plan tailored specifically to your needs/planets? It just doesn't make any sense..... |
Dex Thunakar
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
17
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Posted - 2013.02.25 11:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Mia Rev wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen. Have you watched anything posted on youtube? Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XaQxX4YqN4 I understand the basics. I'm trying to actually plan my colonies, and am having trouble with that aspect. Mainly I suck at spreadsheets, and can't seem to find a decent tool to plan colonies with. Trial and error. There is no point in using spreadsheets unless you have a ton of planets. Well I plan on having at least 15 of them. And if that's successful then it will probably double depending on the amount of work involved to keep things running at decent efficiency. I'm currently training a PI character (though I used to have a perfect PI character), so I'm not really able to use trial and error. I also used the trial and error method before and ended up with a clusterfuck. So I'm trying to plan things out this time, and also run some calculations to figure out whether I would make more isk/month buying p1 materials and turning them into p4 via factory planets. Or buying the cheaper p1 materials and producing the more expensive ones myself, then combining them via factory planets. Or producing everything myself. Etc.
and you want CCP to "document" all of this for you? All the prices (that are constantly changing for each product) and all resource availability (which is constantly changing on each planet) and what would be most profitable for you? You're funny :) |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
195
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Posted - 2013.02.25 12:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Well I plan on having at least 15 of them. .... So I'm trying to plan things out this time, and also run some calculations to figure out whether I would make more isk/month buying p1 materials and turning them into p4 via factory planets. Or buying the cheaper p1 materials and producing the more expensive ones myself, then combining them via factory planets. Or producing everything myself. Etc.
If I may suggest...
Don't start with 15 colonies. That's like learning to swim by diving into the ocean. Start with 1 or 2. Figure out what's effective, whether you like the amount of work needed, whether the ISK is worth the management. Once you've figured a couple out, then expand if you feel it's worthwhile.
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Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
155
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Posted - 2013.02.25 12:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pi is makeing you suicidal? Clearly you have not tryed invention in this game We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do... |
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Ronix Aideron
The Ugly Ass Kickers Mech Alliance
74
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Posted - 2013.02.25 13:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
What about the planning of the colonies is giving you grief?
Is it the placement on the planet, the efficiency of the colony, profit per click?
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ronix_Aideron |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3521
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 13:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:
Well I plan on having at least 15 of them.
START SLOW.
Get used to what happens with one character first.
A lot of the details can only come out of observation and results.
Imagine how some of us felt when PI was new and there was nobody and nothing to turn to ? It was an uphill struggle we do know that much.
General Help with PI is hard to accomplish on the Forums without typing one's fingers away into nubs.
It's better to experiment for at least a few days, and then post specific questions, as those are easier to handle on a Forum. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
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Posted - 2013.02.25 14:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dex Thunakar wrote:
and you want CCP to "document" all of this for you? All the prices (that are constantly changing for each product) and all resource availability (which is constantly changing on each planet) and what would be most profitable for you? You're funny :)
Way to assume the worst.
When I talk about lack of documentation, I mean lack of documentation on each facility's cycle times, input requirements, etc. One particularly undocumented thing that I never would have known had I not chanced upon a post that mentioned it (I've not seen it mentioned in the 10 or so guides/wiki pages/etc that I've read), is that the size of the planet actually makes a difference in your link costs. |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.02.25 14:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
My problem it seems is i set up my extractor and left it running but didnt realise till today that i have to route the stuff somewere and now i cant seem to shift the stuff out of my extraction facility to go anyweres. any clue on how to do this? ive had people trying to help me but all i get is outgoing and nothing else.
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Ideki
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
77
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Posted - 2013.02.25 14:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Did you try the EVE Planetary Planner tool ? Creator of The EVE Planetary Planner and The EVE Ships Skills Planner Author of Immortal Warriors |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3528
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Decaneos wrote:My problem it seems is i set up my extractor and left it running but didnt realise till today that i have to route the stuff somewere and now i cant seem to shift the stuff out of my extraction facility to go anyweres. any clue on how to do this? ive had people trying to help me but all i get is outgoing and nothing else.
If it is not routed, the material evaporates into oblivion. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
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Posted - 2013.02.25 15:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
I did. My main problem with it is the lack of a tree-like view. Try setting up a factory planet with that tool, and you will quickly understand how tough it can be to work with, and how confusing it gets. If you could make it so that routes make a tree-like view, or maybe even make it so I can set up different groups of extractors, then it would make things much better. Basically there needs to be some visual representation of what is feeding into what. A list of all the facilities is just a pita, and it takes ages to scroll through the list to set them up etc. Don't get me wrong it's a nice tool, it's just a bit of a PITA to work with.
Also the materials list scrollbar in the production data is broken. The list itself goes too far down so you can't see the bottom items. |
Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
I ******* hate spreadsheets. Why the **** does everyone insist on using the damn things. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3529
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:I ******* hate spreadsheets. Why the **** does everyone insist on using the damn things.
I don't use them. Ever. Makes EVE into too much of a job.
It is best to learn from trial and error and observation, and base quantities for any Industrial activity upon the results found. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:I ******* hate spreadsheets. Why the **** does everyone insist on using the damn things. I don't use them. Ever. Makes EVE into too much of a job. It is best to learn from trial and error and observation, and base quantities for any Industrial activity upon the results found.
Trial and error will run me broke in a week. |
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
196
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Posted - 2013.02.25 15:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Start small, one or two planets won't run you broke if you have to rip up everything and replace. |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis
200
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Seriously, **** this ****.
But really though, if you're good at PI and don't mind helping me out with some of it, convo me in game. I've read most of the guides etc. It's the actual planning the colonies I'm having trouble with. Mainly because ccp doesn't know how to document a damn thing, and the planetary planner tool I'm trying to use has the most un-intuitive interface I've ever seen.
If you found the planner tool I did, just stop using it. It's worthless. If you didn't find the one I found, stop using it anyway, because I don't think its possible to make a useful one until an API pull for planets is implemented. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3531
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:I ******* hate spreadsheets. Why the **** does everyone insist on using the damn things. I don't use them. Ever. Makes EVE into too much of a job. It is best to learn from trial and error and observation, and base quantities for any Industrial activity upon the results found. Trial and error will run me broke in a week.
Dumb Comment of the Week.
Your Alliance taking too much of your ISK ? Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
XShrapnel77
Millennium Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just by reading this topic you seem like you know the basic concept of PI, but never did much research on it. That is only my assumption, now onto my point.
If you want my honest opinion: PI is complicated, and CCP did not deploy it very well, some updates and patches just added more confusion to the initial launch. I can understand your frustration, as well as your downfall.
You say you want to set up 15 planets, that's fine. But you have to take one step at a time, one planet at a time. Use the forums or a search engine to find PI Tutorials, calculators, and other useful tools, especially posts that give detailed tips and tricks.Take all advise at your own discretion, some may be outdated or incorrect.
I would offer my knowledge, but i fear it would confuse or frustrate you further, as everyone sets up PI differently. I will offer this though, A point that i cant stress enough to anyone, is to research everything you can about something in EVE before you dive into it. Take this from personal experience, iv lost Billions of ISK just by forgetting a small detail or jumping into a project before researching it. If you cant afford to replace it, dont buy it.
Here are a few useful links that i use all the time to set up PI, or at least do some researching.
EVE University PI Guide (YouTube) Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSIn8g-K3-Y Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6h-nECuf_A
NOTE: The PI User Interface is outdated in these videos! Do NOT use them to build your colony.
Also note that this is used for POS Fuel, the basic concept can be used for any PI Commodity, even if the PI Interface is outdated in the video.
PI Commodities by EVE University: (External Link) Link: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Commodities
I use this as my planner after choosing what i am going to make, prices are not included because they are constantly changing. Read the Wiki carefully, it holds some valuable info.
All this being said, i am no master at PI, i just took the time to research it, and like many before me have said, Trial and Error. If ISK is an issue, use the Test Server, if you cant use the Test Server, go mining for a day and stock up about 50M ISK, thats a reasonable amount to set up a single planet with room to make changes. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3531
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 19:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
XShrapnel77 wrote: I can understand your frustration, as well as your downfall.
Unfortunately, this was a ruse and a troll.
Were he really having issues, there are plenty of folks in Test alliance who would help him out and he would not be having any issues.
His response of saying trial and error would break him financially was the tip-off for me as to what was going on. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
489
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 20:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Decaneos wrote:My problem it seems is i set up my extractor and left it running but didnt realise till today that i have to route the stuff somewere and now i cant seem to shift the stuff out of my extraction facility to go anyweres. any clue on how to do this? ive had people trying to help me but all i get is outgoing and nothing else.
Extractors have no storage. Anything that is not routed is lost each cycle.
Extractor cycles are easy once you understand them. there is a direct relation between extraction rate and the over all length of the program. as you increase the length of a program two things happen. the extractor heads get bigger and the cycles get longer. You do not just have to look at the total average per hour but each bar on the chart is one extraction cycle.
In the early days of PI this was far more important than it is now, as it used to be easy to overload your links. now links have way higher base capacity.
the cycle times change as the program gets longer. anything 1 day 45 minutes or less gets 15 minute cycles, then it steps up to 1/2 hour cycles, then 1 hour, 2 hours, and 4 hours. as this happens the heads also get bigger. bigger heads harvest a larger area at a slower rate. by paying with the length of the program and the number of heads you have out you can tailor the extraction output to what you need.
1 big thing to remember, higher teir PI is not necessarily worth more. it depends on a few factors. for example a P$ item is often worth much less than the raw P0 that was used to make it. But the P4 takes up much less space. So if you are doing PI in a wormhole, or in deep null, the compression you get from P4 will give you far more isk per load, but less over all value that the 5-6 loads of P1 that went into making the P4.
Every planet can produce at least 1 type of P2 without any importing. I recommend that to start. Personally I prefer POS fuel components as they always have a good demand. other types of PI can change rapidly. So for a basic P2 operation you need a level 4 command center, two extractor control units, two basic factories, an advanced factory, and a launch pad.
Find a place where the two P0 resources have decent nods/hotspots close together.
each planet has at least one type of P2 it can make. But you will not be able to pull any two resources to make a P2, you need the right ones. a few examples; barren planet > noble metals & base metals > precious metals & reactive metals > mechanical parts Storm planet > aqueous liquids & ionic solutions > water & electrolytes > coolant Plasma planet > heavy metals & noble metals > Toxic metals & precious metals > Enriched Uranium
to explain the set up I will use the barren example. First of all you need to find the two P0 materials you need. in this case noble metals and base metals. each basic factory converts a single P0 into a P1. It consumes 3000 units of P0 to produce 20 units of P1, on a 30 minute cycle. An advanced factory consumes 40 units each of two different P1 to produce 5 units of P2, on a 1 hour cycle. So since the basic factory produces 20 units per 30 minutes or 40 units per hour you need 1 basic factory for each input materials for the advanced factory to keep it running. we can already see the compression. 12000 units of 2 different P0 go into 5 units of P2.
All planets do not have all resources. Noble metals are only found on barren and plasma planets. Noble metals are far less abundant on barren planets then base metals. So I recommend scanning for noble metals first, then finding a near by source for base metals. Place your CC and launch pad somewhere between the two area's. set up two basic and one advanced factory as close as possible to your launch pad, and connect each to the launch pad only with links.
You then need two ECU(extractor Control Units) one on the noble metals area, and one on the base metals area. Connect them with links to your launch pad. You want to find a balance between program length and the number of extractor heads to give you as close to 6000 units of each per hour as possible. To much extra and it will just fill your launch pad with material you do not need. I find a 1 day 45 minute cycle works well for me, you will need to find what works for you. You will most likely need more heads out on the noble metals ECU than on the base metals ECU to hit the target 6000 units per hour, so do the noble metals first. Do not forget to route the output to your launch pad.
So you now have two extractors sending two different P0 to your launch pad at a rate of as close to 6000 units/hr as possible. if you have the CPU/PG to go over try to also place an additional basic factory, you can always sell off the extra P1 mats. you now need to set up you basic factories to produce your two P1 mats. one precious metals, one reactive metals, and route the P0 from the launch pad to each factory. You then need to route the output P1 from each basic factory back to the launch pad. You now set up your advanced factory to produce mechanical parts, you then need to route the P1 mats to the advanced factory, and the output P2 back to the launch pad.
You will need to reset the extractors every day, but should only need to haul out the P2 once per week. This is a basic PI operation with zero maintenance costs, aside from export taxes. It will not generate huge income, but requires very little upkeep. I produce POS fuel components and sell POS fuel making about 100 mil per week per account. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1181
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:I ******* hate spreadsheets. Why the **** does everyone insist on using the damn things. I don't use them. Ever. Makes EVE into too much of a job. It is best to learn from trial and error and observation, and base quantities for any Industrial activity upon the results found. Trial and error will run me broke in a week.
Then don't do PI. Seems like you've found your calling in whining on the Forums instead, so stick to what you know. Let those of us that know how to Eve make the isk at it.
kthxbye "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity Honey Badger Coalition
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 22:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Your Alliance taking too much of your ISK ? Vicata is not in the TEST that holds sovereignty. The mechanics of sovereignty make it impossible for you to place a command center when you are not a member of the alliance that holds sovereignty - no matter how blue you are. He has to mosey on over to NPC null, or lowsec to set up his PI. Like I do.
Sov holder: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Test_Alliance_Please_Ignore compared to: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Test_Friends_Please_Ignore
I also have a feeling that the OP is trying to place command centers and route everything through them, and destroying them when they're not correct (or good enough). This sort of thing gets real expensive real quick (especially when you add in jump freighter shipping costs that make each command center about 500k-1M before you push it out the airlock) until you realize that the command center does not need to be connected to anything else. None of the extractors/spaceports/factories need to be attached. |
Vicata Heth
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 04:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm just going to ignore the obvious trolls. You guys really have no standards do you?
Yes, as people have mentioned, my corp is not a full test corp yet. Therefore I can't actually set up PI. I have asked in some of the channels I'm provided, but haven't got much response. Which is expected, not many people are going to be willing to give you their secrets, because then the market gets saturated. I understand the basics of PI. When it comes to making something simple like robotics, nanite paste, pos fuel, etc, I have no problems. I used to have a perfect PI character and did this, though I never really stuck with it. On top of that I sold that PI character, for a few different reasons. The main one being that I have another character on that account now that I would rather focus on training. I've since started a new PI account and am in the process of training another PI character, and will eventually have all 3 slots filled with perfect PI toons.
My problem, is I am smart enough to see that there is far more potential than just harvesting your own materials and producing pos fuel, robotics, nanite paste, etc. However there is a complete lack of tools for me to get the information I'm looking for. Basically I want to make things as efficient as possible. That means if it will make me more isk/month to buy a particular low-value commodity rather than harvest/mine/whatever it, then that's what I would want to do. My issue, is there isn't anything available to actually figure out what the most efficient way is. On top of that I suck at spreadsheets.
Off to Visual Studio I guess, at least I'm good at that. |
XShrapnel77
Millennium Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 04:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Now i understand your point, Your looking for information, tip, tricks, or anything that can improve on your current PI setup (or future setup)
Well the simple answer is, no.
Nobody has really taken the time to make a tool or something that helps you determine how to maximize a planets potential.
Another reason might be that PI is to dynamic and complex to build a tool around. There are so many planets in EVE that it would take ages to gain data from them all, let alone stuff it into a database and make a program to calculate the best place to put your extractors, structures, and cycle times.
Im getting tired just from thinking about it. |
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