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Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
49
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Posted - 2013.02.26 21:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
At level 5 you can permanently shuffle 1 slot to another location.
example: take 1 high slot and move it to a low slot
example: take 1 mid slot and move to a rig slot
this will make for some amazingly unprecedented ships, "unbalancing" you might say....'Yesssss!' I reply
(also you can get yourself out of Jury Duty) |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
665
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Posted - 2013.02.26 21:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
troll? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
795
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Posted - 2013.02.26 22:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1
Provided cannot exceed max of 8 on any category, and does not create new turret mount if moved to high. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
369
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Posted - 2013.02.26 23:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Would be fun, plenty of ships ive flown end up with a utility high, or unused mid slots (on an armor ship), that i would rather have on a different level, since at the use i have for them, that useless high may better serve to supplument my tank, or that mid could be switched to a low to help my sniper with GTFO when interceptors have closed on it.
the only problem i see is coding, might be an issue to make ships have alterable points, though T3's have different setups depending on subs so who knows.
on that note, would make T3's more fun, can fit exclusively for bonus's and fix the slot layout on your own to assist in overspecializing, such as an extra neut or 2 on a neut legion to make a cheap bhaalgorn. ::::)
however i would have to be againt the addition of additional rigs, the limit is 3, on ships that can only fit 2, maybe those can boost to 3, but high/mid/low cannot exceed 8, and rigs cannot exceed 3.
(maybe allow unused slots that you take off instead of shuffling to be put towards calibration or PG/CPU, alowing some beefier rigs or mods to be put on ships that otherwise wouldnt fit) |
Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
229
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Posted - 2013.02.27 03:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, then add Advanced Advanced Jury Rigging: You can permanently add 1 slot of your choice per level to your ship. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
51
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Posted - 2013.02.27 03:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:Yes, then add Advanced Advanced Jury Rigging: You can permanently add 1 slot of your choice per level to your ship.
hey quit poopin in my thread- you can go do that in yer own proposal mate |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
51
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Posted - 2013.02.27 03:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:troll?
no... not actually
just added the jury duty thing in case that ever comes up in some WiS iteration- you know... to like, cover all my bases
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
112
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Posted - 2013.02.27 04:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mikaila Penshar wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:troll? no... not actually just added the jury duty thing in case that ever comes up
move/work to a foreign country....I get a notice to attend jury duty once in while. As I am thousands of miles away and out of the US I am not making those report dates for obvious reasons.
Rest of this....its been covered before. If ccp gave that armour tanker low slot setup that had you go if I could only fit one more xyz....it was by design. Want more gank, less tank. Want more tank less gank.
While there are some dud slot layouts, even with some of them it jsut takes a paradigm shift in thinking to make them work. My example ship for this is wolf. I for a long time wondered what CCP was thinking with its layout. Then I saw arty wolf and went well that works the layout pretty damn good. |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
51
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Posted - 2013.02.27 04:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
this is a skill specifically designed to lend a hand at unbalancing ships- it wont change powergrid, cpu or turret counts, but it will make things different and unique... and we like different and unique (even if it is sorta dysfunctional and anti-social)
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
671
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Posted - 2013.02.27 05:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
This would be crazy overpowered on some ships, and completely useless on others. |
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
798
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Posted - 2013.02.27 05:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Paikis wrote:This would be crazy overpowered on some ships, and completely useless on others.
Actually, this would make previously completely useless ships not completely useless, and completely useless on crazy overpowered ships. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
113
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mikaila Penshar wrote:this is a skill specifically designed to lend a hand at unbalancing ships- it wont change powergrid, cpu or turret counts, but it will make things different and unique... and we like different and unique (even if it is sorta dysfunctional and anti-social)
it can affect grid. 1 more low is a co-proc/power mod potentially.
Even worse its avoiding the current rigs that do grid cahnges. I need more pg, -1 slot for ACR. as I have no room for RCU or don't to come off the lows I do have.. I take that ships junk high slot I fill to obey the eve rule of no empty slots (don't need it, I jsut do it to make the sock sniffers happy) make it a low and get back my ACR slot for something else if that now added RCU clears grid by a hair.
I would not do this to be different, I'd do this to push a boat into the op zone. Since you have this skill based (ideas in the past at least made this a rig you add) I got a few fits I could pull an ACR after slapping in RCU and put in more useful rigs. Like say shooty rigs. Current setup...I want those bigger bore weapons, the acr is 1 less rig I can run to use to better effect with a shooty rig. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
375
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Posted - 2013.02.27 08:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
do you have any idea of the balance ramifications of this change?
the number of variables would scale into the tens of billions with hundreds of millions of those variables being attributed to the strategic cruisers
How about i move a mid to a low on my archon and get a 50,000 DPS tank, or move a mid to a high on my bhaalgorn to get an 8 neut cap death machine . . .
What about a 4 low slot huginn or a 6 low slot sacrilege . . . no just . . . no |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
51
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Posted - 2013.02.27 20:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paikis wrote:This would be crazy overpowered on some ships, and completely useless on others.
exactly!
sabre906 wrote:Actually, this would make previously completely useless ships not completely useless, and completely useless on crazy overpowered ships.
^this guy gets it^
Zan Shiro wrote: it can affect grid. 1 more low is a co-proc/power mod potentially.
yesss... you're getting the concept
Zan Shiro wrote: Even worse its avoiding the current rigs that do grid cahnges. I need more pg, -1 slot for ACR. as I have no room for RCU or don't to come off the lows I do have.. I take that ships junk high slot I fill to obey the eve rule of no empty slots (don't need it, I jsut do it to make the sock sniffers happy) make it a low and get back my ACR slot for something else if that now added RCU clears grid by a hair.
I would not do this to be different, I'd do this to push a boat into the op zone. Since you have this skill based (ideas in the past at least made this a rig you add) I got a few fits I could pull an ACR after slapping in RCU and put in more useful rigs. Like say shooty rigs. Current setup...I want those bigger bore weapons, the acr is 1 less rig I can run to use to better effect with a shooty rig.
you wouldn't be able to affect calibration- of course not- same as you can't affect powergrid or cpu... unless you know a rig or mod that does... in which case use it because if you could really do it- you would
just like Chew-freakin-bacca and Han Solo did... right? so- yeah, you get it too
Sigras wrote:do you have any idea of the balance ramifications of this change?
the number of variables would scale into the tens of billions with hundreds of millions of those variables being attributed to the strategic cruisers
How about i move a mid to a low on my archon and get a 50,000 DPS tank, or move a mid to a high on my bhaalgorn to get an 8 neut cap death machine . . .
What about a 4 low slot huginn or a 6 low slot sacrilege . . . no just . . . no
NEVER TELL ME THE ODDS
variables-schmariables... this is not Sparta - this is EvE- and your 50,000 dps tanked Archon would become the toast of town (that is if you can fit it within the pg/cpu confines it would have- remember you'd only ever get to move 1 slot) at least until someone dropped some other deathmachine on it - so YES... you get it too
My issue with many of the built in mechanics and the balancing act of ships is that it's like driving on rails... you can only go where the track takes you- no if's, and's, or but's about it. I think you would find many more people flying traditional fits though... as in order to fly one of these monsters you'd have to have the Advanced Jury Rig skill to level 5 (and you know it'd have to be a X16 skill)
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
803
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Posted - 2013.02.27 22:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
It does nothing for the already OP ships that already have the perfect slot layout. It moves the imperfect ships 1 slot closer to perfection.
Btw, perfection is subjective. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
671
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Posted - 2013.02.28 01:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
abaddon 8 lows falcon 8 mids sleipnir 6 mids mach 6 mids Mael 7 mids vindi 8 lows
these ships werent powerful enough before, but now they will be...great |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
805
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Posted - 2013.02.28 01:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you move a low to a mid on a Mach, you fail. Don't fail.
Perfect example of op ship that's already perfect not benefiting. It instead offers some people the opportunity to fail their perfect boat, in keeping with spirit of Eve. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
52
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Posted - 2013.02.28 01:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:If you move a low to a mid on a Mach, you fail. Don't fail. Perfect example of op ship that's already perfect not benefiting. It instead offers some people the opportunity to fail their perfect boat, in keeping with spirit of Eve.
YES!
Also... at Level 4 you can remove rigs without destroying them... eh? ...eh? Oh yea this is gettin better all the time
can I get an AMEN??? |
Vegine
Sphere Foundation
19
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Posted - 2013.02.28 01:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would go 10 steps further and say scrap all inherent ship bonuses (dmges etc), reduce the stats (including slots) available on a clean ship to be minimum, with open choices to add a number of stats/slots/rigs/etc from a shared pool of "ship modification points". |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
52
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Posted - 2013.02.28 01:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vegine wrote:I would go 10 steps further and say scrap all inherent ship bonuses (dmges etc), reduce the stats (including slots) available on a clean ship to be minimum, with open choices to add a number of stats/slots/rigs/etc from a shared pool of "ship modification points".
could be the way to go for something like JOVIAN ships... but this is not about that, so what do you think about the proposed skill-Advanced Jury Rigging??
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
331
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Posted - 2013.02.28 02:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
At first I was tempted to laugh, reading the idea.
But...
Man, this could be quite interesting actually ! G££ <= Me |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
675
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Posted - 2013.02.28 16:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:If you move a low to a mid on a Mach, you fail. Don't fail. Perfect example of op ship that's already perfect not benefiting. It instead offers some people the opportunity to fail their perfect boat, in keeping with spirit of Eve.
ur terrible... |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1830
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
This comes across as a "wouldn't be cool if" idea..... that completely lacks any thought on what the actual consequences would be...
As such... NO...
If you want support, you would need to show you understand how this will alter ships, their stats, and the game... and then explain why it would be wanted.
Also, there aren't very many "useless" ships in the game... I'll admit some t2 ships fit that category, but that's mostly because they haven't been rebalanced yet.
FOTM ships are alright, as long as they only are only "superior" for a limited duration... I fear this change will screw over balance so much that it will be very awkward to "rebalance".
There are also hard limits to consider... like max 8 slots in a row, max 3 rigs, etc... I personally think your suggestion makes "balancing" from the dev's perspective near impossible as the ship layout permeations grow enormously.
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Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
54
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This comes across as a "wouldn't be cool if" idea..... that completely lacks any thought on what the actual consequences would be...
As such... NO...
If you want support, you would need to show you understand how this will alter ships, their stats, and the game... and then explain why it would be wanted.
Also, there aren't very many "useless" ships in the game... I'll admit some t2 ships fit that category, but that's mostly because they haven't been rebalanced yet.
FOTM ships are alright, as long as they only are only "superior" for a limited duration... I fear this change will screw over balance so much that it will be very awkward to "rebalance".
There are also hard limits to consider... like max 8 slots in a row, max 3 rigs, etc... I personally think your suggestion makes "balancing" from the dev's perspective near impossible as the ship layout permeations grow enormously.
having a bad day are we? Look- don't come here and cry about needing support- this idea has support (or did you miss all that by skipping along to the end here and poopin out your post?)... balancing is still needed, it is going to prove to be the optimal setup for a ship no doubt, but if you want to do something different to have a unique ship then you should be able to jury rig your ship... That is what it's about.
ps- lighten up a little and allow some fun in your game... you just might enjoy it
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1830
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mikaila Penshar wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This comes across as a "wouldn't be cool if" idea..... that completely lacks any thought on what the actual consequences would be...
As such... NO...
If you want support, you would need to show you understand how this will alter ships, their stats, and the game... and then explain why it would be wanted.
Also, there aren't very many "useless" ships in the game... I'll admit some t2 ships fit that category, but that's mostly because they haven't been rebalanced yet.
FOTM ships are alright, as long as they only are only "superior" for a limited duration... I fear this change will screw over balance so much that it will be very awkward to "rebalance".
There are also hard limits to consider... like max 8 slots in a row, max 3 rigs, etc... I personally think your suggestion makes "balancing" from the dev's perspective near impossible as the ship layout permeations grow enormously.
having a bad day are we? Look- don't come here and cry about needing support- this idea has support (or did you miss all that by skipping along to the end here and poopin out your post?)... balancing is still needed, it is going to prove to be the optimal setup for a ship no doubt, but if you want to do something different to have a unique ship then you should be able to jury rig your ship... That is what it's about. ps- lighten up a little and allow some fun in your game... you just might enjoy it
???
I thought I was pretty clear in my explanation as to why I don't support your idea... specifically stating what's missing (like any reference to the balancing nightmare this causes).
To that you response was pretty childish... I'm sorry I didn't realize you were just trolling from the start...
PS: you won't make "useless ships useful" with this change... You'll make useful ships more useful leaving the useless ships still useless.
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Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
337
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
All skills have an effect at each level, so, how about:
level 1: move high or mid to low level 2: move high to mid level 3: move high, mid, or low to rig level 4: move low to mid level 5: move low or mid to high
It's easier to scale something down than scale it up.
Some limitations? - Rigs slots can't ever be changed. - It has no effect on T3 ships (and possibly capitals). DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Vegine
Sphere Foundation
20
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Posted - 2013.02.28 23:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
change the mechanic a bit. sorry if this looks like a thread takeover but I'm just building and refining up on your idea.
Instead of "move" the slots just make it so ships comes with "unlockable" and "removable" slots, and a "ship modification points" stats. You can unlock and begin modify once you train this adv. J.R skill to certain levels
so. for example situation 1
Hyperion has 2 unlockable low slots in addition to its current available slots. 6 Low (2 unlockable, X removable) in compliance with "no more than 8" rule 5 Meds (3 unlockable, X removable) 8 Highs (X removable) 3 rigs. (unlockable? removable?)
Lets say the 2 unlockable becomes avaialbe to modify once you train Caldari BS to 5 and Adv J.R to 5 But as is Hyperion has 0 ship modification points in its "clean" state, to unlock an extra low slot you'd need certain points to do it.
Now where the points comes from? By removing other slots and/or ship stats such as CPU/PGRID/SPEED/SCAN RESOLUTION etc just as example.
Lets just for simple demonstration purpose in this case removing 1 med slot frees up just enough "ship modification points" to allow you to unlock another low slot. So in effect you traded 1 meds for another low.
To still retain uniqueness of different ships, you could make subsequent modifications cost more. So perhaps (again not yet refined the idea) after 1st low slot unlock to unlock the 2nd would require 1.3x as much ship modification points , meaning simply removing another med slot won't be enough to unlock the 2nd lows. This can be further rigged to prevent abuse by making other ship stats can only be removed in minimum fixed amounts like 100CPU/removal, 500 PWG per removal when trading for ship modification points (adjusted for ship size, so amount is different for frig/cruisers/bcs etc. Also makes the points frees up becomes less should you removes it multiple times from the same stats, additionally adjusted for the overall number of removals you've done (0.9 ship modification points adjustment for 2nd removal on the ship, 0.8 for 3rd removal modification, 0.7 for 4th removal modification) etc. So in theory you could pimp out a 8 turrent on a frig, but rest assured it will come at a great cost.
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
659
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Posted - 2013.02.28 23:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Creating new game mechanics that only veterans can take advantage of sort of goes against existing design. Being able to swap slots around has the potential to be extremely potent and it would put people without it at a substantial disadvantage. Furthermore, swapping slots around is going to be a lot more useful on some ships than others which will of course radically unbalance stuff. |
Vegine
Sphere Foundation
20
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Posted - 2013.02.28 23:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
last bit to add:
Each complete ship modification should cost a fraction of ship cost. If you make very heavy adjustments on a ship it could cost perhaps even more than the hull to make the modifications.
Addiitonally, each ship should only be able to be modified so many times. Lets say have a modification counter for each ship (3). afterwards ship can't be modified any longer. A modified ship will have a special graphic display indicating its modified for distinguishing purposes.
Lastly, perhaps links skills to these modifications. So if you want capacitor modification on a Gallent BS it would require you to have gallent BS V, 2 Energy skills at 5, in addition to a perhaps Gallent BS modification skill and Energy grid modification skill. Not just to have these skills to modify, you must have these skills to pilot a modified one too. This will prevent pilots from gaining access to too broad range of modified ships and means the "career path" (gallent, mimmy, amma, cald) they choose will bear more significance - which in turn, means you will see more people flying more unique ships out there. |
Vegine
Sphere Foundation
20
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Posted - 2013.02.28 23:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Creating new game mechanics that only veterans can take advantage of sort of goes against existing design. Being able to swap slots around has the potential to be extremely potent and it would put people without it at a substantial disadvantage. Furthermore, swapping slots around is going to be a lot more useful on some ships than others which will of course radically unbalance stuff.
this will be a major change, which means current ship roles/capablilities/layouts will probably adjust accordingly.
Just tell me 2 things
1. Is it impossible to adjust current systems to make it work (albeit probably a major one)? 2. Will this not inject alot of uniqueness, possibilities, and fun into this game? |
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