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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4071
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 16:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seriously, -75% tracking makes Spike, Tremor, and Aurora ammo types terrible for pretty much any application, and I'm fairly sure it's because of this these ammo types are never used.
I'd go so far as to say maybe -40% would be better and would help people to actually start using these ammo types. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Nulli Legio
344
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Posted - 2013.02.27 16:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seconded I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Obvious Cyno
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:Seconded
This |
Tub Chil
Last Men Standing
34
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Instead of nerfing heavy missiles CCP had to buff T2 long range ammo |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4071
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tub Chil wrote:Instead of nerfing heavy missiles CCP had to buff T2 long range ammo Well no, heavy missiles did still need to be nerfed. But tracking is what's really preventing people from using the ammo even after heavy missiles were nerfed. Even if the ammo was buffed like I propose, HMs would still have been overpowered. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
213
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spike I think its going to be a hard one to balance properly - on small and medium railguns it badly badly needs a damage increase (and other tweaks) but if you scale small to large spike uniformly you end up with for instance railguns + spike on the rokh potentially becoming overly powerful. |
Whitehound
1026
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is another problem with Spike.
For example, using Spike L with 425mm Railgun IIs on a Megathron goes out to 130km (+30km fall-off) without any use of tracking enhancers and computers, while the ship itself only has got a locking range of 90km. On a Rokh does it become more obvious, where the optimal lies at 194km while the ship can only lock as far as 113km.
On a Catalyst with 150mm Railgun IIs is it not much different and the optimal is at 56km (+11km for fall-off) while the ship's locking range is only 41km. A Cormorant moves the optimal out to 73km with a locking range of 45km.
The ammo has far more range than it is useful.
One can still use Spike with the smaller turrets and to be within a ship's maximum locking range, but why use it when a larger turret type with a more powerful ammo type achieves similar ranges?! Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1067
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:There is another problem with Spike.
For example, using Spike L with 425mm Railgun IIs on a Megathron goes out to 130km (+30km fall-off) without any use of tracking enhancers and computers, while the ship itself only has got a locking range of 90km. On a Rokh does it become more obvious, where the optimal lies at 194km while the ship can only lock as far as 113km.
On a Catalyst with 150mm Railgun IIs is it not much different and the optimal is at 56km (+11km for fall-off) while the ship's locking range is only 41km. A Cormorant moves the optimal out to 73km with a locking range of 45km.
The ammo has far more range than it is useful.
One can still use Spike with the smaller turrets and to be within a ship's maximum locking range, but why use it when a larger turret type with a more powerful ammo type achieves similar ranges?!
Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits". CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4073
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:There is another problem with Spike.
For example, using Spike L with 425mm Railgun IIs on a Megathron goes out to 130km (+30km fall-off) without any use of tracking enhancers and computers, while the ship itself only has got a locking range of 90km. On a Rokh does it become more obvious, where the optimal lies at 194km while the ship can only lock as far as 113km.
On a Catalyst with 150mm Railgun IIs is it not much different and the optimal is at 56km (+11km for fall-off) while the ship's locking range is only 41km. A Cormorant moves the optimal out to 73km with a locking range of 45km.
The ammo has far more range than it is useful.
One can still use Spike with the smaller turrets and to be within a ship's maximum locking range, but why use it when a larger turret type with a more powerful ammo type achieves similar ranges?! You know there are these things called sensor boosters... Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Whitehound
1026
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits".
James Amril-Kesh wrote:You know there are these things called sensor boosters...
Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4075
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:ElQuirko wrote:Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits". James Amril-Kesh wrote:You know there are these things called sensor boosters... Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too. Tracking computers don't really make up for a 75% malus. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2510
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:ElQuirko wrote:Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits". James Amril-Kesh wrote:You know there are these things called sensor boosters... Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too.
Those do not do anything to lock range...unless you meant to say Signal Amplifiers.... Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Whitehound
1026
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Whitehound wrote:ElQuirko wrote:Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits". James Amril-Kesh wrote:You know there are these things called sensor boosters... Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too. Tracking computers don't really make up for a 75% malus. Exactly.
I was not saying that I did not know how to extend a ship's locking range or how to make Spike work. It simply is not useful in the sense of "not being of much use" or "being impractical". Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
TheButcherPete
The James Gang R O G U E
232
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
I agree, Spike is useless unless you're fighting at hideously long ranges. Dat tracking penality.
Rails have ****** tracking anyway, normally. Bzzt.
GÖÑ Punkturis GÖÑ |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
315
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4075
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's as if I didn't just say that that doesn't make up for how ******* terrible a 75% penalty makes it. You already have to fit at least one sensor booster on most ships to make these ammos useful at all. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Whitehound
1028
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Posted - 2013.02.27 17:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Varesk wrote:Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script. When it becomes necessary to fit a tracking computer with a tracking script and a sensor booster with a range script in order to make an ammo type work then it hardly gets more obvious: the trade-off between range and tracking of the Spike ammo is out of balance. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2807
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
I love my 50km thrasher with 1k volley dmg ... |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
315
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Varesk wrote:Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script. When it becomes necessary to fit a tracking computer with a tracking script and a sensor booster with a range script in order to make an ammo type work then it hardly gets more obvious: the trade-off between range and tracking of the Spike ammo is out of balance.
We used Zealots with Beam lasers against MWD Drakes. Primary ammo was Aurora and it worked fine. We didnt use a SB and a TC. We just used a TC.
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1192
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Posted - 2013.02.27 18:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
I used to use Aurora regularly in Amarr missions, even with the lower DPS. But since NPCs have gone disrupt/tracking crazy, it's become virtually useless. Really don't even use Beams much anymore at all with the current state of OP NPCs. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
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Zimmy Zeta
RvB - RED Federation
9040
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Posted - 2013.02.27 18:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Well, there is still this often-overlooked nasty little rig called "ionic field projector" that is extremely cheap, costs only 50 calibration and increases your targeting range by 25% (I love them so much). And yes, I agree that the tracking nerf is way too hard on those ammos. Please don't feed me. |
Whitehound
1029
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Posted - 2013.02.27 18:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Varesk wrote:I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem. The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4077
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Varesk wrote:Whitehound wrote:Varesk wrote:Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script. When it becomes necessary to fit a tracking computer with a tracking script and a sensor booster with a range script in order to make an ammo type work then it hardly gets more obvious: the trade-off between range and tracking of the Spike ammo is out of balance. I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem. Typical rail fit Rokh locks to about 150 km and with spike has a range of 224 km at 315 dps. CN Iridium hits to 149 km and does the same DPS without the tracking penalty.
This Rokh, mind you, has a signal amplifier fit. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Col Arran
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
90
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Varesk wrote:I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem. The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think?
What is this....I don't even.... |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
625
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
You don't need great tracking at long range. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4077
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:You don't need great tracking at long range. Try using the DPS graph function in EFT and see how much of a difference it actually makes. With any transversal at all, even at 150 km range, DPS drops quite dramatically, both with target MWD on and off. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Whitehound
1029
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Posted - 2013.02.27 18:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Col Arran wrote:Whitehound wrote:Varesk wrote:I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem. The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think? What is this....I don't even.... Yes, you do not even comprehend. The "EVE Way" to enter into a discussion... Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Col Arran
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
90
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Col Arran wrote:Whitehound wrote:Varesk wrote:I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem. The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think? What is this....I don't even.... Yes, you do not even comprehend. The "EVE Way" to enter into a discussion...
Perhaps you should quote the full post and not just the part you picked out. |
Zimmy Zeta
RvB - RED Federation
9041
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:You don't need great tracking at long range.
Maybe not with the classic battleship size sniper weapons against battleships sized targets. But with the tiericide, CCP was trying to make all ships and all weapons viable, that includes small and medium long range weapons as well. A beam punisher for example may be awesome on paper with its 24 + 3 km range, but with Aurora, the movement of your own ship ruins most of the dps even if the enemy is standing still. (beam punishers are still great, just not with Aurora)
Please don't feed me. |
Whitehound
1029
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 18:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Col Arran wrote:Whitehound wrote:Col Arran wrote:Whitehound wrote:Varesk wrote:I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem. The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think? What is this....I don't even.... Yes, you do not even comprehend. The "EVE Way" to enter into a discussion... Perhaps you should quote the full post and not just the part you picked out. Perhaps you have a one meter meat banana in your pants and consider yourself a winner in all situations of life, but why should I care? Do you have anything to contribute that is on topic? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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