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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3597
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 19:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Why is ist alowed zu use Software for "Ship-steering" ?
+ 1 for imitating Teri Garr in "Young Frankenstein". Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
457
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 19:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
One <> the other.
But anything that encourages alts is bad for the game, and if you read the EULA, it's really questionable as to how ISBoxer is not a violation of it.
"3.You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
Clearly ISBoxer facilitates the accelerated acquisition of items, when compared with one player running twenty separate accounts manually.
But money talks, everyone else walks...... The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3487
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 20:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:One <> the other. But anything that encourages alts is bad for the game, and if you read the EULA, it's really questionable as to how ISBoxer is not a violation of it. "3.You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play." Clearly ISBoxer facilitates the accelerated acquisition of items, when compared with one player running twenty separate accounts manually. But money talks, everyone else walks...... Oh ho, a wild gamebreaker argument has appeared. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
297
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 20:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Your talking about alot of subscription money to ban these sorts of players. I mean, who doesn't have more than one account? CCP wants people using more than one account, the more the better to be honest, as it gets them far more cash. As long as there is an actual human behind the controls, sitting at his computer, going to all the hassle of getting all his accounts running at the same time, then they don't care.
Its the Bots they're after. Completely automated, computer controlled with zero human imput. I can see you're finding it hard to differentiate between the two. But its quite simple. Human controlled accounts = good, computer controlled accounts =bad.
Working out which are the bots and which are actual players is the hard part i imagine, but those smart CCP people have their ways! Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2641
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 20:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
****. Why did this need ANOTHER thread.... Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14359
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
You know what, this is pointless. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1034
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Oh boy! Another, "My computer isn't powerful enough to run multiple clients and I can't afford a dozen computers to do it using ISBoxer, so you shouldn't have it either" thread. HTFU!...for the children! |
Razefummel
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
431
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 23:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Your talking about a lot of subscription money to ban these sorts of players. I mean, who doesn't have more than one account? CCP wants people using more than one account, the more the better to be honest, as it gets them far more cash. As long as there is an actual human behind the controls, sitting at his computer, going to all the hassle of getting all his accounts running at the same time, then they don't care. Its the Bots they're after. Completely automated, computer controlled with zero human input. I can see you're finding it hard to differentiate between the two. But its quite simple. Human controlled accounts = good, computer controlled accounts =bad. Working out which are the bots and which are actual players is the hard part i imagine, but those smart CCP people have their ways!
I KNOW, that CCP didn-¦t want to have less payed Accounts. I know also that the Mainargument is that a Person is in front of the PC and "uses" all those Accounts and the Software is "just" copying the Movements of an real Player. And i also know that its actual very comfortable to gain that much ISK with such less effort.
All that is actual true and i also understand why CCP is accepting it.
But if we shortly see that we could allow bot using with the same Reason, because if i am sitting in front of my PC and would have an Bot running for my giant Miningfleet while i do something else with my "Main-Account" we have 2 Situations in wich a Player is using Software to handle as many Chars as possible.
I didn-¦t sayed that multiboxing is generaly a bad Thing, i sayed that Software wich is able to handle the Character steering SHOULD generaly be permitted.
And the Question is why CCP doen-¦t like Bots but likes Multyboxers insted of permitting -¦em? The Mony couldn-¦t be the reason, because the "Bottingaccouts" are also payed like the multiboxing ones.
Mr Kidd wrote:Oh boy! Another, "My computer isn't powerful enough to run multiple clients and I can't afford a dozen computers to do it using ISBoxer, so you shouldn't have it either" thread.
You shouldn-¦d believe that just becaus i didn-¦t found that described "200" other Threads here.
21 Tage Trial + Plex-Back Option : http://www.eveger.de/forum/showthread.php?20631-Buddy-Programm-21-Tage-Trial-Angebote&p=871311&viewfull=1#post871311
Der Public Chanel unserer Corporation ist: Dimension |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13082
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 23:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:And the Question is why CCP doen-¦t like Bots but likes Multyboxers insted of permitting -¦em? The Mony couldn-¦t be the reason, because the "Bottingaccouts" are also payed like the multiboxing ones. Because one entails players not playing the game but still getting the benefits from it, and the other does not.
You're so hung up on the use of software that you miss the obvious: they want players playing the game, not bots. They don't want automation. That's all there is to it. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Razefummel
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
431
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 23:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tippia wrote:...
You're so hung up on the use of software that you miss the obvious: they want players playing the game, not bots. They don't want automation. That's all there is to it.
Wait. Thats the Point. It IS automation if i setup an 40 Char-Miningfleet with BOTH of that Programs. Just because 1 Account used by an Player didn-¦t make it less automated.
Think about it. 21 Tage Trial + Plex-Back Option : http://www.eveger.de/forum/showthread.php?20631-Buddy-Programm-21-Tage-Trial-Angebote&p=871311&viewfull=1#post871311
Der Public Chanel unserer Corporation ist: Dimension |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3492
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 23:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Tippia wrote:You're so hung up on the use of software that you miss the obvious: they want players playing the game, not bots. They don't want automation. That's all there is to it. Wait. Thats the Point. It IS automation if i setup an 40 Char-Miningfleet with BOTH of that Programs. Just because 1 Account used by an Player didn-¦t make it less automated. Think about it. CCP did. Apparently you're thinking wrong. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Razefummel
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
431
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 00:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Razefummel wrote:Tippia wrote:You're so hung up on the use of software that you miss the obvious: they want players playing the game, not bots. They don't want automation. That's all there is to it. Wait. Thats the Point. It IS automation if i setup an 40 Char-Miningfleet with BOTH of that Programs. Just because 1 Account used by an Player didn-¦t make it less automated. Think about it. CCP did. Apparently you're thinking wrong.
Hehehe, so you would say that CCP always had good Ideas? Then we hoply soon get more adequate Items in that shiny AURUM-Shop-System. That was also an Idea from CCP... not so far in the past btw. and everyone seemed to be happy about that. 21 Tage Trial + Plex-Back Option : http://www.eveger.de/forum/showthread.php?20631-Buddy-Programm-21-Tage-Trial-Angebote&p=871311&viewfull=1#post871311
Der Public Chanel unserer Corporation ist: Dimension |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2586
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 00:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Razefummel wrote:Tippia wrote:You're so hung up on the use of software that you miss the obvious: they want players playing the game, not bots. They don't want automation. That's all there is to it. Wait. Thats the Point. It IS automation if i setup an 40 Char-Miningfleet with BOTH of that Programs. Just because 1 Account used by an Player didn-¦t make it less automated. Think about it. CCP did. Apparently you're thinking wrong. Hehehe, so you would say that CCP always had good Ideas? Then we hoply soon get more adequate Items in that shiny AURUM-Shop-System. That was also an Idea from CCP... not so far in the past btw. and everyone seemed to be happy about that.
One requires player input & doesn't accelerate the aquisition of anything faster than normal gameplay allows. The other is automated. Think about it. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Razefummel
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
431
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 01:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:...
One requires player input & doesn't accelerate the aquisition of anything faster than normal gameplay allows. The other is automated. Think about it.
Ok, again in slow motion... :
1. An Bot also dosn-¦t accelerate anything. It does the Actions in the same Speed as you theoretical could. 2. The 1. Account of an Multiboxer is played, the OTHER does automaticly what the firstone does.
So we see (if we want to) that the softwarebased Multiboxing is an Automation of an huge Amount of Characters because if there is no Software wich duplicates the Input the Player would probably uses a less amount of Characters becaus he isn-¦t able to handle them manualy. So we have an Software witch is usable to handle theoretical an unlimited Amount of Chars like an Bot does.
So we have a Group of Players wich are able to flood the Market with underpriced Assets and an undefined Amount of ISK like botters does.
So i had thought a lot about it, and came to the conclusion that using that kind of Software is bad for Market, not only for flooding it with cheap Assets but also with flooding it with ISK witch shouldn-¦t be in the System... Inflation is the Keyword here.
Naturaly we could find Arguments witch are "Pro" Softwaresoloutions but there are more against it, thats why CCP bans Bots for. Permitting other Softwaresolutions of "handling" Characters in Eve would be consequent if we all are honest. 21 Tage Trial + Plex-Back Option : http://www.eveger.de/forum/showthread.php?20631-Buddy-Programm-21-Tage-Trial-Angebote&p=871311&viewfull=1#post871311
Der Public Chanel unserer Corporation ist: Dimension |
Galenwade
Shrubbery Acquisitions
194
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 01:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:...
One requires player input & doesn't accelerate the aquisition of anything faster than normal gameplay allows. The other is automated. Think about it. Ok, again in slow motion... : 1. An Bot also dosn-¦t accelerate anything. It does the Actions in the same Speed as you theoretical could. 2. The 1. Account of an Multiboxer is played, the OTHER does automaticly what the firstone does. .
A pure bot accelerates the gaining of items in the fact it never has to log off .
if a bot mines with 20 accounts for 24 hours it will make X amount of isk If a player runs duplication programs for 12 hours it will make X we have to eat,sleep,work etc etc so can not stay on 24 hours.
That is how i see it as accelerated not, so much in it can make more in an hour but it can make more in a week.
A bot is automation that requires no constant input . A duplication program is a program that duplicates your input |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2586
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 01:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:...
One requires player input & doesn't accelerate the aquisition of anything faster than normal gameplay allows. The other is automated. Think about it. Ok, again in slow motion... : 1. An Bot also dosn-¦t accelerate anything. It does the Actions in the same Speed as you theoretical could. 2. The 1. Account of an Multiboxer is played, the OTHER does automaticly what the firstone does.
1. "A" bot can accelerate things, feel free to ask "John" or Kelduum from E-UNI all about it. 2. The other accounts would not play if there was no user input, meaning they're not automated. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Razefummel
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
431
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 02:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Galenwade wrote:... A pure bot accelerates the gaining of items in the fact it never has to log off .
if a bot mines with 20 accounts for 24 hours it will make X amount of isk If a player runs duplication programs for 12 hours it will make X we have to eat,sleep,work etc etc so can not stay on 24 hours. ...
So your Point is: "If an Bot only be used when an Player is infront of the PC it would ok because it has the same Primetime as his User."
Galenwade wrote:... A bot is automation that requires no constant input . A duplication program is a program that duplicates your input
We had this Argument already and understood it, but it doesn-¦t realy gets the Point that those Players needs the Software to enraise theyre income. I don-¦t have anything against Multiboxers... i don-¦t like that "software is steering Characters"-Concept in generell.
Mallak Azaria wrote:... 2. The other accounts would not play if there was no user input, ...
Without that Software they wouldn-¦t do neither.
21 Tage Trial + Plex-Back Option : http://www.eveger.de/forum/showthread.php?20631-Buddy-Programm-21-Tage-Trial-Angebote&p=871311&viewfull=1#post871311
Der Public Chanel unserer Corporation ist: Dimension |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2586
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 02:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Without that Software they wouldn-¦t do neither.
Many people multibox just fine with out software, so yes, those accounts can in fact perform actions with out software. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Thomas Abernathy
Beekeepers Anonymous
69
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 02:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Razefummel wrote:Without that Software they wouldn-¦t do neither.
Many people multibox just fine with out software, so yes, those accounts can in fact perform actions with out software.
That is such crap.
One player, running twenty accounts on his own cannot operate with the efficiency that ISBoxer gives you. I realize that without ISBoxer, you probably wouldn't be able to defend your space, if anyone could be bothered with 0.0 anymore. But don't bother to try and sell the players at large that ISBoxer provides no advantages....
"Fighting CCD since 2139" |
Razefummel
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
431
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 02:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Razefummel wrote:Without that Software they wouldn-¦t do neither.
Many people multibox just fine with out software, so yes, those accounts can in fact perform actions with out software.
I never sayed that multiboxing in generel is a bad Thing. My Point IS and WAS that Accounts wich i can-¦t use without third Party Programs to handle the Caracters, shouldn-¦t probabably be used.
Anyone who can use his Account without Multibox-Software or Bots should keep doing it in future. Nothing against it.
Don-¦t misunderstand me in that. 21 Tage Trial + Plex-Back Option : http://www.eveger.de/forum/showthread.php?20631-Buddy-Programm-21-Tage-Trial-Angebote&p=871311&viewfull=1#post871311
Der Public Chanel unserer Corporation ist: Dimension |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2586
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 02:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Razefummel wrote:Without that Software they wouldn-¦t do neither.
Many people multibox just fine with out software, so yes, those accounts can in fact perform actions with out software. I never sayed that multiboxing in generel is a bad Thing. My Point IS and WAS that Accounts wich i can-¦t use without third Party Programs to handle the Caracters, shouldn-¦t probabably be used. Anyone who can use his Account without Multibox-Software or Bots should keep doing it in future. Nothing against it. Don-¦t misunderstand me in that.
They're not doing anything wrong though & they have no advantage over other players that don't use the software because of the teamwork factor. You can argue that their income potential is higher but effective income remains the same as a solo player, & teamwork between an equal amount of people will always perform better than the ISboxer. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Silent Requiem
59
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 02:59:00 -
[52] - Quote
So there is a 33/34 page threadnaught about multiboxing on the same page, and you still felt you needed to make your thread about multiboxing? Really? |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Silent Requiem
59
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
Razefummel wrote: I don-¦t have anything against Multiboxers...
Then why are we here? |
Razefummel
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
431
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:02:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:... You can argue that their income potential is higher but effective income remains the same as a solo player, & teamwork between an equal amount of people will always perform better than the ISboxer.
You really believe that right? Thats sadly not the Truth.
You can do Incursions with many less real Players with ISboxer, you can mine with ISboxer and you could fly 0.0 Anomalys with ISboxer, etc. so you may couldnt enraise the Profit per Character, but you can enraise the Profit per Player enormus. If it wouldn-¦t be the case no one would do it that way.
Btw. an equal Amount of real Players will only be in PvP the better Choice.
In Incursions you don-¦t have to call Targets, all Ships witch are multiboxed will fire perfectly syncronized and you only have to swich off ISboxer when you call for Reps. / Shield, and then switch it on again. If we get it on the top you would probably be able to multibox an whole Inc-Fleet with the Logistics on an 2nd PC. 21 Tage Trial + Plex-Back Option : http://www.eveger.de/forum/showthread.php?20631-Buddy-Programm-21-Tage-Trial-Angebote&p=871311&viewfull=1#post871311
Der Public Chanel unserer Corporation ist: Dimension |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2587
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:... You can argue that their income potential is higher but effective income remains the same as a solo player, & teamwork between an equal amount of people will always perform better than the ISboxer. You really believe that right? Thats sadly not the Truth.
Feel free to show me otherwise using a broad range of activities. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Homowners
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
Multiboxing with software assistance is about as close to booting as you can get - in your example of 20 characters, there is no way someone is going to control each and every character with even close to the efficiency of automated software that duplicates mouse movements and keystrokes. It's third party software assistance, pure and simple, to increase a player's efficiency far above what they could do on their own. Nothing to honestly dispute about that.
The thing is, this game is unique in that it can hurt your character to try and train/use same character alts, whereas the game design heavily promotes multiple accounts/multiboxing. For whatever reason, this small community likes multiboxing and abhors botting (for myriad reasons, some very well founded, some questionable, some baffling displays of selective reasoning).
So botting is against the rules and software-assisted multiboxing is not, even though nobody with a brain sees them as all that different, logically or under the EULA.
And discussing it isn't going to somehow make botting okay, or multiboxing bannable. Yet here I am, bumping this dumb and duplicative thread:P |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Homowners
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Razefummel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:... You can argue that their income potential is higher but effective income remains the same as a solo player, & teamwork between an equal amount of people will always perform better than the ISboxer. You really believe that right? Thats sadly not the Truth. Feel free to show me otherwise using a broad range of activities.
Multiboxing incursions versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing mining versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing missions versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing ratting versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing moving your characters from system to system versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing blob fleet actions versus manual clicking each UI
Can't see it helping with station trading, exploration/scanning, or fights where your multiple accounts are using many various types of ships.
You couldn't just come up with this on your own? Some examples are from this very thread. |
GreenSeed
234
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
Razefummel wrote:Tippia wrote:...
You're so hung up on the use of software that you miss the obvious: they want players playing the game, not bots. They don't want automation. That's all there is to it. Wait. Thats the Point. It IS automation if i setup an 40 Char-Miningfleet with BOTH of that Programs. Just because 1 Account used by an Player didn-¦t make it less automated. Think about it.
there's only one thing you make clear, that your conception of what automation is happens to be wrong. and its impossible to have a conversation if we don't agree on the definitions of the things we are discussing.
now i know that different languages can lead to slightly different concepts, that's why clarification is often needed when translating. but even so, automation has a strict definition on all languages, that cannot be expanded, and there's no possible way to argue with. automatic is defined as a process that starts with no human input. end of story.
if i have a doorbell that rings every time someone stands on the doormat, then its automatic.
if i have a standard doorbell and someone rings it, then its not automated.
if i have a standard doorbell with its wires split into 20 copper pairs each leading to 20 different bells, and then someone rings it making 20 different bells ring... it is NOT automated.
a process cant go from "manual" to "automatic" based on the number of processes one interaction starts, it only changes to "automatic" if no interaction is needed.
if you cant, or decide to not accept that definition of automation, then your problem is not with players multiboxing, your problem is with logic. and i don't thing anyone here can help you with that. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Homowners
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
Thomas Abernathy wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Razefummel wrote:Without that Software they wouldn-¦t do neither.
Many people multibox just fine with out software, so yes, those accounts can in fact perform actions with out software. That is such crap. One player, running twenty accounts on his own cannot operate with the efficiency that ISBoxer gives you. I realize that without ISBoxer, you probably wouldn't be able to defend your space, if anyone could be bothered with 0.0 anymore. But don't bother to try and sell the players at large that ISBoxer provides no advantages....
I don't know how common 20 account players are, but I suspect most people are in the two to three account range, and doing a variety of tasks that couldn't benefit from software. I have two accounts, and multiboxing just fine without software assistance ( and don't know how I could even use software to help with 99% of what I use them for).
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2587
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Multiboxing incursions versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing mining versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing missions versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing ratting versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing moving your characters from system to system versus manual clicking each UI
Multiboxing blob fleet actions versus manual clicking each UI
Can't see it helping with station trading, exploration/scanning, or fights where your multiple accounts are using many various types of ships.
You couldn't just come up with this on your own? Some examples are from this very thread.
The example was for how multiboxing gives an advantage over a team of people working together, which actually gives greater coordination. Please, tell me all about how a team of people working together is less efficient than 1 person multiboxing the same amount of accounts. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
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