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Oska Rus
Solar Storm Insidious Empire
11
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was thinking about settling in some C3 wormhole but a lot of wormhole seems occupied by relatively weak corps.
I was wondering if it is possible to take down small/medium/large (dickstar/deathstar) pos with only 4 subcap ships. And what would be the tactics i should employ. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
214
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Depends on the setups of the POS, a large dickstar will be pretty much impossible to do with 4 ships short of throwing way more ISK at fitting them than its worth.
For most other poorly defended POSes depending on setups 4x tier3 especially oracles or 4x domis can probably handle it aslong as you don't get unwelcome attention from a 3rd party. |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
65
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Posted - 2013.03.05 17:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have seen a lot of incredibly badly fitted POS:es in low class wormholes. You should be able to do this just fine if you choose your target wisely. When my previous corp originally moved into wormholes, we removed a PI corp from a C3 with a RR fleet of a few Domi's and a Tempest or two and took over the hole. We were complete WH and PvP noobs back then, but it was still fairly easy to do. Should be doable with tier 3 BC:s as well. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1031
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Posted - 2013.03.05 18:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
2 problems.
1) You're going to have a hell of a time out dpsing pos shield recharge on the back end.
2) Once you hit reinforced they'll have time to scrounge up any noob of the street to fight you off. You're not going to have hole control w/ 4 toons so it will be relatively easy for them to hire even the most incompetent of mercs to swat you away.
There are still plenty of holes to settle. Get your friends to all ship up in cov-ops, everyone choose a random direction and go find yourself a wh. When you find it be ready to move. Have a pos boxed up in an Orca with a week's worth of fuel to start, defensive mods and you can probably hold off on the CHA/SMA until the second run.
As to finding your perfect hole.....don't sweat the details. There's two ways you can approach find the hole you want: actively looking and semi-actively looking. Actively looking is what I've already stated. Semi-actively looking is find a system that statics to the type of system you want, setup shop temporarily and wait for the perfect system to open up. Then move a second pos into it.
The way I choose a system I want to live in is by what it statics to. That is to say if I want to farm C3's I look for a system that statics to it. That can be a C2, C4 or C5....might have missed one but you get the idea. Everything else is secondary and flexible but prioritize. Example: If I want a static to a C3 and a HS static I'm willing to compromise on the HS if other features are attractive like awesome PI. Systems with no k-space static are not bad. It's not hard to find a route assuming you have good probing skills and know how to roll holes.
Also, don't overlook cohabitation. As you've already stated, many wormholes are under-populated making the occupants vulnerable to systems that pack members into them like ghey bathouses. So, make some friends. HTFU!...for the children! |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
49
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Posted - 2013.03.05 19:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
With 4 people it will be nearly impossible to pop a large dickstar.
If they are active, your best bet is to deny them the system. Camp exits, pop industry ships at grav sites, ladars, or customs offices. Make it difficult for them to run sleeper sites. We've made more than one corp pick up and leave that way.
If they aren't active, set up a large dickstar of your own and build a dread or two.
Alternatively, if you find a wormhole you just have to have, and you have the wallet for it, you can always hire mercs yourself. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
214
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Posted - 2013.03.05 19:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
POS shield regen is only an issue really if your shooting against the wrong resists - i.e. oracles probably not the best idea against a large min POS with only 4 people. On peak against 0 resists its only about 560dps for a large min POS.
2nd point can be an iffy one, hit the wrong target who actually have friends and your unable to maintain hole control your potentially in for a world of pain with only 4 people. While not many people do WH mercing the chance to shoot 4 ships that are predictable when they show up will get a lot of people interested. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
17
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Posted - 2013.03.05 20:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe you could hire some mercenaries to help kill their pos? |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
49
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Posted - 2013.03.05 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rroff wrote:POS shield regen is only an issue really if your shooting against the wrong resists - i.e. oracles probably not the best idea against a large min POS with only 4 people. On peak against 0 resists its only about 560dps for a large min POS.
2nd point can be an iffy one, hit the wrong target who actually have friends and your unable to maintain hole control your potentially in for a world of pain with only 4 people. While not many people do WH mercing the chance to shoot 4 ships that are predictable when they show up will get a lot of people interested. Depends what the ships are, most wspace mercs wont leave the hole for less than a few billion unless its something shiny to shoot (or null carriers...). |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
88
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Posted - 2013.03.05 21:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Honestly it's likely to be a massive PITA with just 4 accounts to take down a well defended POS. You can do it if:
1) If you just bring enough bombs you can take out their defences with a small number of SB. This is insanely expensive if they don't group their modules.
2) If you use the right damage type 4 battleships or tier 3 BCs can take down a POS assuming they don't fit resists, and that there isn't too much effective ecm.
Honestly it is easier to find an empty hole. It's also important to realize that it's not required take out their POS to take a hole. If I wanted to evict someone from a hole I'd do the following:
1) Puff up my corp with as many alts as I can.
2) Shoot every POS, and POCO in the system to trigger a bunch of warnings. (Or for amusement get an alt into a big pvp corp and shoot their POS and POCOs.)
3) Put up your own POS. (Just realize you are risking your POS as they may have friends or mercs.)
4) Siege their static exit with warp bubbles.
5) Stalk their ships with bombers and other cloaklies. Don't let them do PI, mine, run sites, or haul stuff out of the hole. Be smart and choose your targets. Don't attack their combat ships running sites, but do attack their salvager. If they run a bunch of sites before salvaging loot and shoot the wrecks yourself.... Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a bitter small portion of the community. |
Gwindor
YoHo Trades
0
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Posted - 2013.03.06 01:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
If they are smart, camping exits will be ineffective.
They will have plenty of fuel and stront stored for more than a month if they planned well.
This is why I keep all my modules separated, 9 of each ew online. at least 10-15 small guns online and a medium or 2.
It is so much easier to just buy your own WH. |
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Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
147
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Posted - 2013.03.06 08:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
I wouldn't bother laying siege to any Large Death stars. Keep looking; you'll find somewhere with a small control or a medium control, or you'll find an empty system.
Small control towers can easily be sieged by 4 characters using Tier 3 battlecruisers; if they have onlined defenses, incapacitate them first with a couple T1/T2 Logistics cruisers in support, then reship to all damage boats.
People with Large Death Stars TYPICALLY have friends (even if they're not in alliance) and typically have lots of fuel and stront.
Svo. |
Sushi Nardieu
Bite Me inc Bitten.
98
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Posted - 2013.03.06 08:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why don't you gather your own intel.
The amount of mods on someone's POS has nothing to do with the amount of allies or friends they have.
It's possible to reo a POS with 4 battleships but is it possible to not go insane during the bash? The Guns of Knowledge-á |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
34
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Posted - 2013.03.06 11:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have yet to hear of a more suiting subcap then the rr-domi (with sentries) for sieging duties.
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Oska Rus
Solar Storm Insidious Empire
11
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Posted - 2013.03.06 12:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thanks for all the responses it gave me quite new insight into pos warfare. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
215
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Posted - 2013.03.06 13:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:I have yet to hear of a more suiting subcap then the rr-domi (with sentries) for sieging duties.
Any of the Amarr BS backed up by logistics are atleast as suited as the RR domi, tho I use a domi myself there is a bit of a downside (unless its been recently fixed) in that sentry drones will slowly creep towards the forcefield so you have to keep scooping them and redeploying on longer bashes. |
TunaKross
Bite Me inc Bitten.
27
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Posted - 2013.03.06 17:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:I was thinking about settling in some C3 wormhole but a lot of wormhole seems occupied by relatively weak corps.
I was wondering if it is possible to take down small/medium/large (dickstar/deathstar) pos with only 4 subcap ships. And what would be the tactics i should employ.
If you want that wormhole so bad, just move in. Put up your own tower and see whats up. If they dont leave then hell you should get some pew atleast from it. |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gwindor wrote:If they are smart, camping exits will be ineffective.
They will have plenty of fuel and stront stored for more than a month if they planned well.
This is why I keep all my modules separated, 9 of each ew online. at least 10-15 small guns online and a medium or 2.
It is so much easier to just buy your own WH.
Honestly my tactics will only work on people who are easily scared out of their hole, which is a suprising number of people. That said a small 8 man corp can suprise you. You roll into their hole all smug, and think you'll steamroll them. The next thing you know they've hired a HS corp to war dec, and their friends show up with a 30 ship pvp fleet when the POS comes out of reinforcement. You count yourself lucky to make it out of the hole with your ship, and it takes days to make it back home to your hole.
Also a POS with a good defensive setup is a pain to take out without a fleet of 10-20 people. You need to bring some sort of RR, plenty of the right dps, a supply ship, and staging POS. If the defender actually is manning the guns it's a nightmare. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a bitter small portion of the community. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
148
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 20:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sushi Nardieu wrote:Why don't you gather your own intel.
The amount of mods on someone's POS has nothing to do with the amount of allies or friends they have.
It's possible to reo a POS with 4 battleships but is it possible to not go insane during the bash?
At 5000 DPS it takes 1 hour to reinforce a small tower. Assuming 4 Battleships aren't going to be that highly skilled, allow for 1.5-2 hours. That's not that long of a time. Shoot the breeze with your friends. Double the time for each level of tower you go up without any added DPS, and add time for each mod you have to incapacitate.
Svo. |
Reppyk
Yarrbear Inc. BricK sQuAD.
367
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Posted - 2013.03.07 04:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Svodola Darkfury wrote:At 5000 DPS it takes 1 hour to reinforce a small tower. You're wrong. |
Trinkets friend
Minmatar-Amarr Man-Boy Love Association
968
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 14:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have taken, viz. large POS with AFK Geddon (5-6 hours), med dickstar with 2 Sentrytars (4 hours), small dickstar with 2 Sentrytars (2.5 hours), small with small blasters with a Drake (5 hours). You can do it! Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Komen
Capital Enrichment Services Existential Anxiety
182
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Posted - 2013.04.01 11:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:2 problems.
1) You're going to have a hell of a time out dpsing pos shield recharge on the back end.
2) Once you hit reinforced they'll have time to scrounge up any noob of the street to fight you off. You're not going to have hole control w/ 4 toons so it will be relatively easy for them to hire even the most incompetent of mercs to swat you away.
There are still plenty of holes to settle. Get your friends to all ship up in cov-ops, everyone choose a random direction and go find yourself a wh. When you find it be ready to move. Have a pos boxed up in an Orca with a week's worth of fuel to start, defensive mods and you can probably hold off on the CHA/SMA until the second run.
As to finding your perfect hole.....don't sweat the details. There's two ways you can approach find the hole you want: actively looking and semi-actively looking. Actively looking is what I've already stated. Semi-actively looking is find a system that statics to the type of system you want, setup shop temporarily and wait for the perfect system to open up. Then move a second pos into it.
The way I choose a system I want to live in is by what it statics to. That is to say if I want to farm C3's I look for a system that statics to it. That can be a C2, C4 or C5....might have missed one but you get the idea. Everything else is secondary and flexible but prioritize. Example: If I want a static to a C3 and a HS static I'm willing to compromise on the HS if other features are attractive like awesome PI. Systems with no k-space static are not bad. It's not hard to find a route assuming you have good probing skills and know how to roll holes.
Also, don't overlook cohabitation. As you've already stated, many wormholes are under-populated making the occupants vulnerable to systems that pack members into them like ghey bathouses. So, make some friends.
This is full of excellent advice. Well said.
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Van Ketris
Elusive Dilemma
2
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Posted - 2013.04.20 03:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
I admit I only read the first couple of replies in full, but I kept noticing a pattern of "you can't, or shouldn't." Which isn't accurate at all. There have been alot of problems listed, and some of them are true. For instance...
1. It will take a while for 4 characters to kill a pos, small and medium is obviously better for you.
2. Properly Armed PoS's and dickstars present the largest challenge, but are not impossible by any means.
3. If they properly defend it, you will find it difficult to finish it off. This can and will happen, but it is also fairly common for nobody to show up, or for it to be a few uncoordinated guys you can force back inside shields.
Those are the problems you face, but their solutions are numerous. If they have an armed tower, it is most likely a good idea to plan on using two different setups. Setup 1 is going to disarm the pos, and setup 2 is high dps low tank ships that will grind the shields down. Depending on how the pos is armed is a major factor in determining what you should use. To keep things simpler, my most generic plan is to use tier 3 bc's as dps, and use logi at over 100k to rep. In c3's, you see alot more small and medium guns than large. Their range is limited, and properly setup logi can rep to 90k...the tier 3 bc's can shoot from 10-20k...giving you plenty of range to keep the logi alive, use two if you need. There are many other varients for different gun setups, but just find a way to reduce dmg by speed/range tanking some of them, then tanking the rest as you can.
For shields, you can use anything, but 4 tier 3 bc's work well. They are also effective at dealing with random interuptions. I've gotten quite a few kills while sieging b/c I was in talos, which is great at burst dps, and kiting away from stuff. You just have to remember it's all very random, so there is no one plan or setup. Use what your skills work for, and try to think apply these principles to what works for you.
It's definitely possible to do what you are suggesting, and in some cases it's very easy, but it does always take several hours. Of course don't forget the tower's resistances when choosing your setup. I have solo killed many WH pos's, and it's gotten me a few fun fights in the process. Mostly it goes without any real combat. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1309
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Posted - 2013.04.20 05:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:There are still plenty of holes to settle.
This. I have lived in three different WH's so far. Not one was bought or sieged. All three were found by exploring. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 09:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
First, verify if the POS is actually attacking you if you attack it.
No joke. G££ <= Me |
Van Ketris
Elusive Dilemma
2
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Posted - 2013.04.20 14:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Altrue wrote:First, verify if the POS is actually attacking you if you attack it.
No joke.
That's definitely true lol. In 0.0 also. I miss JB pw's though...cause why wouldn't you set your pos's to that pw also just to keep things simple? :-( |
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