Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4165
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:baltec1 wrote:So we have all learned a lesson today.
Null does indeed suck for industry, Some people who scream for numbers don't like it when people post said numbers, crying is being misused and WI. are not the worst posters in EVE. Please explain why Null needs more industry? Most people won't build in null anyway due to logistical issues and a FOTM market. 80% of the items supplied in 0.0 are bought in highsec and transported. I guess the big question is, with the Bee's overwhelming hatred of anything carebearish, why would you want more industry in 0.0? You've got your cause and effect backwards. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
stoicfaux
2512
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
OTOH, if null sheds its dependence on high-sec, does that effectively turn Eve into two servers?
|
Vince Snetterton
260
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:28:00 -
[93] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tippia wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:Malcanis wrote:Some of the information is available, eg: station slots available.
Perhaps someone could compile that? I would happily pay a billion ISK for a spreadsheet showing manufacturing and reseach slots available in each system. Station slots, yeah, that can be ground out, though I doubt anyone would do it for a billion ISK, when CCP could craft a SQL request and give an answer in by end of day. So can we, in much less time than thatGǪ it's not like it's hard. Anyway, here you go. Cough up the dough! Fun facts: there are three stations in the game that have the wrong services for where and what they are. One is N-FKXV V-12 - Jovian Directorate Academy, which has highsec manufacturing slots in spite of being in null (but then, it's a dev station so it makes sense). The two others are Kor-Azor Prime V-1 - Ishukone Corporation Factory and Kinakka III - Lai Dai Corporation Factory, which have non-station-based invention in spite of being stations. Any chance you could add a "Region" column to that list? It would make it much more useful. ISK sent btw
Case in point about my previous post about data. Data in and of itself is never a bad thing. But viewed in a vacuum is is worthless.
I am glad that Tippia answered the question about mfg slots by sec status, and the more granular, the better. But ultimately, there has to be a lot more data to frame the thrust of where you are likely going with it. Things like minerals used in high sec mfg versus supercap mfg would also be useful in painting an accurate picture, or how many high sec mfg slots exist in POS's and are onlined and being used at any one time, would also better give a picture of the overall economic situation.
The number of mfg slots in each region, or security sector, is virtually worthless as a standalone item. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5524
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:31:00 -
[94] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Please explain why Null needs more industry? Most people won't build in null anyway due to logistical issues and a FOTM market. 80% of the items supplied in 0.0 are bought in highsec and transported. I guess the big question is, with the Bee's overwhelming hatred of anything carebearish, why would you want more industry in 0.0?
Less clone jumps, less cost, less effort, faster production to market times, more forms of income to the average newbee, more reasons to protect the space we have, more reasons to attack other peoples space.
The list goes on. |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
283
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:31:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Null being incapable of self-sustaining industry is not by design.
If I keep beating dead horses, I'm going to get arrested for cruelty to animals but since you're viewed as something of an authority on the forums, I'm interested to know your source for this statement.
Because as far as I knew, the game was "designed" with the least number of industry slots in null and with null being the endgame. So while I'm happy to accept that the number of slots in any given area may need adjustment over time due to population density and the game's fun factor, if null wasn't designed to be incapable of producing everything it needs, by having the least number of slots since the game's inception, I'd really like to read more about that.
YK "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day." |
Kane Alvo
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:31:00 -
[96] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I understand you high sec types trying to safeguard your self interest, but the good of the game is whats important here. The same way you should not be forced by game mechanics or circumstance to go to null, i shouldn't be forced OUT of null because High Sec is more profitable (over time) and easy.
Are you being forced out, or did you make that decision on your own? I'm unaware of any game mechanic that actively ejects players from null sec because they aren't reaching a certain ISK/hr quota. If this is the type of gaming you seek, then by your own admission, you would be better served by moving back to high sec.
Some of you act as if "null sec player" should come kind of badge of honor and/or entitlement. Null sec players (the ones who don't ***** every 5 minutes) are attracted to the self-sustaining lifestyle. High sec players are spoon fed by NPC content. Which one are you? Really?
I really don't understand all the null bear whining. You live in null sec. If you want more, GO TAKE IT. Caldari Militia -áGÿ£G£¬GÿP |
Kane Alvo
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:40:00 -
[97] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What null sec needs is a lot more slots at a price that lets us compete with high sec. That could mean either charging high sec the same as it would cost to run hundreds of POS or adding a new outpost and the ability to put as many in a single system as there are stations in high sec systems.
I think you're missing the entire premise of null sec. The only thing null sec needs is more innovative players.
Caldari Militia -áGÿ£G£¬GÿP |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4165
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:43:00 -
[98] - Quote
What's the point, if the content we take is still inferior to what's spoon fed in highsec? Seriously, all of an alliance's production slots are incapable of even making all of the ammo an alliance needs, much less the ships. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
baltec1
Bat Country
5524
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:44:00 -
[99] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote:baltec1 wrote:What null sec needs is a lot more slots at a price that lets us compete with high sec. That could mean either charging high sec the same as it would cost to run hundreds of POS or adding a new outpost and the ability to put as many in a single system as there are stations in high sec systems. I think you're missing the entire premise of null sec. The only thing null sec needs is more innovative players.
So how exactly do we get the slots we need while keeping the costs of running these things are the same level of high sec. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4165
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:44:00 -
[100] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote:baltec1 wrote:What null sec needs is a lot more slots at a price that lets us compete with high sec. That could mean either charging high sec the same as it would cost to run hundreds of POS or adding a new outpost and the ability to put as many in a single system as there are stations in high sec systems. I think you're missing the entire premise of null sec. The only thing null sec needs is more innovative players. You're Missing The ******* Point.
It doesn't matter how innovative we are, we can't get around game mechanics that limit us to an utterly **** industrial backbone. It's just not possible. You're either a moron who's unable to see that, or you're a liar. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
|
Dave Stark
1917
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:50:00 -
[101] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kane Alvo wrote:baltec1 wrote:What null sec needs is a lot more slots at a price that lets us compete with high sec. That could mean either charging high sec the same as it would cost to run hundreds of POS or adding a new outpost and the ability to put as many in a single system as there are stations in high sec systems. I think you're missing the entire premise of null sec. The only thing null sec needs is more innovative players. So how exactly do we get the slots we need while keeping the costs of running these things are the same level of high sec.
by being innovative, obviously. you're tired, stop posting. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1458
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:OTOH, if null sheds its dependence on high-sec, does that effectively turn Eve into two servers?
No, because high sec people could still come to null and get cheap ships and items. Heck, they could even make null sec alts to make isk .....like we do.....
High Sec is Saudi Arabia (or Venezuela, or hell, any OPEc country), Null Sec is America (especially when it comes to military spending :) ). They don't LIKE us, but they sell us oil. And now that we are talking "Alternative Energy" and cutting our dependance on what they are selling us, they are scared that the people they hate won't buy stuff from them anymore.......
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1458
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:51:00 -
[103] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kane Alvo wrote:baltec1 wrote:What null sec needs is a lot more slots at a price that lets us compete with high sec. That could mean either charging high sec the same as it would cost to run hundreds of POS or adding a new outpost and the ability to put as many in a single system as there are stations in high sec systems. I think you're missing the entire premise of null sec. The only thing null sec needs is more innovative players. You're Missing The ******* Point. It doesn't matter how innovative we are, we can't get around game mechanics that limit us to an utterly **** industrial backbone. It's just not possible. You're either a moron who's unable to see that, or you're a liar.
Or so absorbed by self interest that he's unwilling to see where others are coming from.
|
Kane Alvo
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:52:00 -
[104] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:What's the point, if the content we take is still inferior to what's spoon fed in highsec? Seriously, all of an alliance's production slots are incapable of even making all of the ammo an alliance needs, much less the ships.
I'm not an expert on anything, and I don't claim to be. I'm sure there is some merit to the null sec complaints, and it's no secret that POS's need to be improved. But making null more like high sec or nerfing high sec isn't the answer. Again, I would argue that null is designed to be the final frontier and completely player-driven. It's the players who should address the problem, not demand more NPC interaction.
Actively absorb high sec indy corps if you need more slots in your alliance. Set up trade agreements, or even trade hubs.
Caldari Militia -áGÿ£G£¬GÿP |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
461
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Malcanis wrote:Any chance you could add a "Region" column to that list? It would make it much more useful. Ugh. Yes. SoonGäó Beekeeper Bob wrote:Please explain why Null needs more industry? Most people won't build in null anyway due to logistical issues and a FOTM market. 80% of the items supplied in 0.0 are bought in highsec and transported. You answered your own question. Null needs more industry because [random]% of the items are bought in high and transported rather than produced locally GÇö that's not how it should be. Null-based industrialists are supposed to be able to work in null, supplying null locally, without it being a stupid thing to attempt. Obviously, there is a market for stuff out there, or all that importing wouldn't happen. The problem is that the game mechanics are so imbalanced that you can't reasonably supply that market in what should be the most efficient manner: by gathering and building where you live. The game effectively prohibits you from building the empires the game is meant to let you build.
What dream world are you living in Tippia?
Very few people go to 0.0 to build, regardless of how easy it might be. EVE caters to some of the laziest, whiniest, most useless people on the planet.
Have you ever done 0.0 industry? You think adding industry will convince more people to build in 0.0? You think the average industry person is going to invest in a JF so that he can get the minerals he needs? Has 0.0 suddenly become a safe mining mecca where all minerals are easily available in every station with slots? I've done 0.0 industry for years in Delve, I made a lot of isk at it, because I was willing to invest in the equipment, but finding slots to use was never the issue......
So, if you want to argue the point, please do. Please explain how you intend to solve all the other issues that go along with 0.0 industry...and incidentally persuade all the risk adverse, high industry guys that it's really worth it....If you are willing to invest the billions to get started....
Oh, and I almost forgot.....Delve is easy to access from Highsec, that's what made it worthwhile to build in. What is your answer for nightmare locations like Omist or Detroit? The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4165
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:57:00 -
[106] - Quote
Yeah, you didn't address that cause and effect issue. Once again... Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
baltec1
Bat Country
5524
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 17:59:00 -
[107] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:What's the point, if the content we take is still inferior to what's spoon fed in highsec? Seriously, all of an alliance's production slots are incapable of even making all of the ammo an alliance needs, much less the ships. I'm not an expert on anything, and I don't claim to be. I'm sure there is some merit to the null sec complaints, and it's no secret that POS's need to be improved. But making null more like high sec or nerfing high sec isn't the answer. Again, I would argue that null is designed to be the final frontier and completely player-driven. It's the players who should address the problem, not demand more NPC interaction. Actively absorb high sec indy corps if you need more slots in your alliance. Set up trade agreements, or even trade hubs.
We have tens of thousands of pilots out here and we dont even have the slots to make up for the ammo we burn through when DBRB goes structure shooting. There are systems 4 jumps outside of jita that have most of their manufacturing slots unused. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1460
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:01:00 -
[108] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote: Are you being forced out, or did you make that decision on your own? I'm unaware of any game mechanic that actively ejects players from null sec because they aren't reaching a certain ISK/hr quota. If this is the type of gaming you seek, then by your own admission, you would be better served by moving back to high sec.
Why would i move to the place I'm already forced (by COMMON SENSE) to live.
It isn't about isk/hour, it's about being made a slave by circumstance and game mechanics to a part of space that i don't want to. We hear the cries every day from high sec of "YOU CAN'T FORCE ME TO PLAY YOUR WAY, yet the same people are fine with us being FORCED to rely on high sec for logistical and financial needs...needs they are more than happy to fill with their missioned up/incursioned up Loyalty points and isk and mined up minerals and INFINITE INDUSTRIAL MIGHT.
Some of you act as if "null sec player" should come kind of badge of honor and/or entitlement. [/quote]
Honor yes (there is a reason damn near EVERY ccp ad features NULL SEC play), Entitlement, now, you're thinking of high sec, where everything is handed to you.
Quote: Null sec players (the ones who don't ***** every 5 minutes) are attracted to the self-sustaining lifestyle. High sec players are spoon fed by NPC content. Which one are you? Really?
I'm the one who'd rather have my alts building stuff in null than putzing around high sec. But it's futile as the game is now, so high sec it is.
Quote: I really don't understand all the null bear whining. You live in null sec. If you want more, GO TAKE IT.
Im totally going to take those indy slots, FROM HIGH SEC.
Also, Malcanis for CSM!
|
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
499
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: We have tens of thousands of pilots out here and we dont even have the slots to make up for the ammo we burn through when DBRB goes structure shooting. There are systems 4 jumps outside of jita that have most of their manufacturing slots unused.
Sounds like you need to build more outposts. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4165
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:03:00 -
[110] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:baltec1 wrote: We have tens of thousands of pilots out here and we dont even have the slots to make up for the ammo we burn through when DBRB goes structure shooting. There are systems 4 jumps outside of jita that have most of their manufacturing slots unused.
Sounds like you need to build more outposts. I can't remember the last time I've seen a post this stupid. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1460
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:03:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:What's the point, if the content we take is still inferior to what's spoon fed in highsec? Seriously, all of an alliance's production slots are incapable of even making all of the ammo an alliance needs, much less the ships. I'm not an expert on anything, and I don't claim to be. I'm sure there is some merit to the null sec complaints, and it's no secret that POS's need to be improved. But making null more like high sec or nerfing high sec isn't the answer. Again, I would argue that null is designed to be the final frontier and completely player-driven. It's the players who should address the problem, not demand more NPC interaction. Actively absorb high sec indy corps if you need more slots in your alliance. Set up trade agreements, or even trade hubs.
translation: Stay stuck to high sec.
No.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1460
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:04:00 -
[112] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:baltec1 wrote: We have tens of thousands of pilots out here and we dont even have the slots to make up for the ammo we burn through when DBRB goes structure shooting. There are systems 4 jumps outside of jita that have most of their manufacturing slots unused.
Sounds like you need to build more outposts. I can't remember the last time I've seen a post this stupid.
I can.... it was the last time he posted before this
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8012
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:05:00 -
[113] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Tippia wrote:Malcanis wrote:Any chance you could add a "Region" column to that list? It would make it much more useful. Ugh. Yes. SoonGäó Beekeeper Bob wrote:Please explain why Null needs more industry? Most people won't build in null anyway due to logistical issues and a FOTM market. 80% of the items supplied in 0.0 are bought in highsec and transported. You answered your own question. Null needs more industry because [random]% of the items are bought in high and transported rather than produced locally GÇö that's not how it should be. Null-based industrialists are supposed to be able to work in null, supplying null locally, without it being a stupid thing to attempt. Obviously, there is a market for stuff out there, or all that importing wouldn't happen. The problem is that the game mechanics are so imbalanced that you can't reasonably supply that market in what should be the most efficient manner: by gathering and building where you live. The game effectively prohibits you from building the empires the game is meant to let you build. What dream world are you living in Tippia? Very few people go to 0.0 to build, regardless of how easy it might be.
They might, if it were profitable enough to allow them to compete with the massive subsidies hi-sec building gets.
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
stoicfaux
2513
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote: So, if you want to argue the point, please do. Please explain how you intend to solve all the other issues that go along with 0.0 industry...and incidentally persuade all the risk adverse, high industry guys that it's really worth it....If you are willing to invest the billions to get started....
What if null-sec industry was potentially lucrative enough that null-dwellers were willing to provide security or incentives for high-sec miners to mine in null?
People make the world go around, so should we really be looking for a people solution versus a "number of manufacturing slots" solution? Meaning, is it better to ask "what would it take to get high-sec miners to migrate to null ?"
|
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
464
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:baltec1 wrote: We have tens of thousands of pilots out here and we dont even have the slots to make up for the ammo we burn through when DBRB goes structure shooting. There are systems 4 jumps outside of jita that have most of their manufacturing slots unused.
Sounds like you need to build more outposts. I can't remember the last time I've seen a post this stupid.
Really, Isn't that the point of 0.0 and outposts? Or do you think that CCP should make your life even easier than it is now?
When your masters forgot to pay CCP rent for Delve, and ran away last time, IT came in and built tons of stations. And that was without the endless moon-goo fountain that CCP has created.
So what's the problem, want stuff, but are unwilling to invest in it? The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
499
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote: Meaning, is it better to ask "what would it take to get high-sec miners to migrate to null ?"
The answer to that one is simple. Turn null into high sec.
But, I don't think anyone is calling for that.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1460
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:10:00 -
[117] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:baltec1 wrote: We have tens of thousands of pilots out here and we dont even have the slots to make up for the ammo we burn through when DBRB goes structure shooting. There are systems 4 jumps outside of jita that have most of their manufacturing slots unused.
Sounds like you need to build more outposts. I can't remember the last time I've seen a post this stupid. Really, Isn't that the point of 0.0 and outposts? Or do you think that CCP should make your life even easier than it is now?
Im going to laugh when Tippia pops back in here and demonstrates the fact that you could put an outpost in ALL 6000 null systems and null still wouldn't match a fraction of high sec.
|
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
464
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:14:00 -
[118] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:baltec1 wrote: We have tens of thousands of pilots out here and we dont even have the slots to make up for the ammo we burn through when DBRB goes structure shooting. There are systems 4 jumps outside of jita that have most of their manufacturing slots unused.
Sounds like you need to build more outposts. I can't remember the last time I've seen a post this stupid. Really, Isn't that the point of 0.0 and outposts? Or do you think that CCP should make your life even easier than it is now? Im going to laugh when Tippia pops back in here and demonstrates the fact that you could put an outpost in ALL 6000 null systems and null still wouldn't match a fraction of high sec.
And it wouldn't matter anyway, because you'll never get that many industrialists to 0.0. But that's ok, you kids can ignore all the other issues with that go along with this...
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4165
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Really, Isn't that the point of 0.0 and outposts? Or do you think that CCP should make your life even easier than it is now? I find it hilarious you think my idea of a buff for null industry actually makes things easier, especially when I advocate for industrial upgrades and such that are, you know, vulnerable to attack. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Dave Stark
1917
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 18:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:stoicfaux wrote: Meaning, is it better to ask "what would it take to get high-sec miners to migrate to null ?"
The answer to that one is simple. Turn null into high sec. But, I don't think anyone is calling for that.
actually, simply making it worth their while will get miners in to null.
as it stands there's no reason to move to null and mine. you're tired, stop posting. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |