Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 .. 21 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1201
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:01:00 -
[481] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Velicitia wrote:For people who don't mine, and are getting pissy about this -- why'd you choose to learn how to fly a mining support vessel? The Orca is, and always has been, more than just some mining support vessel. CCP knows this more than anybody else. Even if you were to make this about mining support does this not explain why it needs Mining Barges V and there is also little point in arguing about it now since this requirement is about to get removed and for good reasons.
Orca Description wrote: The Orca was developed as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining Inc as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry and provide a flexible platform from which mining operations can be more easily managed.
Obviously, the description must be wrong, since you're holding the Orca was always more than "just a mining support vessel. Maybe the Role/Skill bonuses will prove you're right...
Orca Bonuses wrote: Role Bonus: 250% bonus to tractor beam range 100% bonus to tractor beam velocity 500% bonus to survey scanner range 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules Can use 3 gang link modules simultaneously.
Industrial Command Ship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to cargo capacity per level 3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level
nope ... these just reinforce the description that it's a ship whose main function is to support MINING.
As for Mining Barge 5 ... Carriers and Dreads need(ed) Battleship 5, Freighters need(ed) Industrial 5 ... seems pretty much on par that the Mining Support Vessel needs Barge 5. |
Whitehound
1182
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:17:00 -
[482] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Orca Description wrote: The Orca was developed as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining Inc as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry and provide a flexible platform from which mining operations can be more easily managed.
Obviously, the description must be wrong, ... No. The description is quite right. You only ignore the part before the and. It always was more than just a mining ship. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2897
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:28:00 -
[483] - Quote
Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ... ... but why? |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14420
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:34:00 -
[484] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ... ... but why? Bored. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
34151
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:35:00 -
[485] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ... ... but why? Bored.
Forget someone.... Thanks Zimmy!! <3 (Updated) |
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
586
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:36:00 -
[486] - Quote
Tippia wrote:By the way, here's an interesting question for you: why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything? question wasn't for me but i will try: have you heard about opportunity cost?
Someone could put these SP used for Mining Barge V (or whatever skills needed to fly Orca) into something more useful. But they were not given by this opportunity. So it can be said they actually lost opportunity to train something more useful.
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14425
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:37:00 -
[487] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Mag's wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ... ... but why? Bored. Forget someone.... Better? Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Haulie Berry
249
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:39:00 -
[488] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Tippia wrote:By the way, here's an interesting question for you: why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything? question wasn't for me but i will try: have you heard about opportunity cost? Someone could put these SP used for Mining Barge V (or whatever skills needed to fly Orca) into something more useful. But they were not given by this opportunity. So it can be said they actually lost opportunity to train something more useful.
They didn't lose the opportunity to train something more valuable when they chose to train the skill. They CHOSE to train it then.
Opportunity cost is something that exists at the point in time when you are making the decision. You don't have retroactive opportunity cost - what you have now is a sunk cost. |
Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
34154
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:41:00 -
[489] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Alice Saki wrote:Mag's wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ... ... but why? Bored. Forget someone.... Better?
*high Five*
Thanks Zimmy!! <3 (Updated) |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2900
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:46:00 -
[490] - Quote
A "Thorax"! Of COURSE! *slaps head* At best equipped with "720mm Artillery" for a huge load of "damage" and "thrust"!
Its PERFECT!
.) Perfect "form" .) Perfect "size" .) Great "manouverability" .) Even has a bonus on "durability" .) "Drones" for that little "extra"
Woah! |
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14428
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:50:00 -
[491] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:A "Thorax"! Of COURSE! *slaps head* At best equipped with "720mm Artillery" for a huge load of "damage" and "thrust"!
Its PERFECT!
.) Perfect "form" .) Perfect "size" .) Great "manouverability" .) Even has a bonus on "durability" .) "Drones" for that little "extra"
Woah! You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1204
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:55:00 -
[492] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Velicitia wrote:Orca Description wrote: The Orca was developed as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining Inc as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry and provide a flexible platform from which mining operations can be more easily managed.
Obviously, the description must be wrong, ... No. The description is quite right. You only ignore the part before the and. It always was more than just a mining ship.
Build as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining, Inc. as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry [and...]
Fine. If you want to nitpick that it's an Industrial support ship, I won't argue with you. But the uses that other people have gotten out of it (mini hisec carrier, mobile base, etc) doesn't negate that its original intention ("as built") was for mining/industry. Same as how WWI and WWII merchant vessels mounted guns -- that didn't immediately make them anything "more" than merchant vessels*.
*well, slightly more defensible merchant vessels ... but you wouldn't call them a frigate or PT boat now, would you? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4349
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:58:00 -
[493] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:March rabbit wrote:Tippia wrote:By the way, here's an interesting question for you: why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything? question wasn't for me but i will try: have you heard about opportunity cost? Someone could put these SP used for Mining Barge V (or whatever skills needed to fly Orca) into something more useful. But they were not given by this opportunity. So it can be said they actually lost opportunity to train something more useful. They didn't lose the opportunity to train something more valuable when they chose to train the skill. They CHOSE to train it then. Opportunity cost is something that exists at the point in time when you are making the decision. You don't have retroactive opportunity cost - what you have now is a sunk cost. I WANTED TO TRAIN THE ORCA CCP SOUNDWAVE HELD ME AT GUNPOINT AND FORCED ME TO TRAIN MINING BARGE 5 THEN HE TIED ME UP IN CCP HEADQUARTERS BASEMENT AND FORCED ME TO WATCH BRIDEZILLA RERUNS WHILE IT COMPLETED Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2904
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:00:00 -
[494] - Quote
Mag's wrote:[uote]You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with. Cant believe i didnt think of this earlier. ^_^ |
Whitehound
1182
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:02:00 -
[495] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I WANTED TO TRAIN THE ORCA CCP SOUNDWAVE HELD ME AT GUNPOINT AND FORCED ME TO TRAIN MINING BARGE 5 THEN HE TIED ME UP IN CCP HEADQUARTERS BASEMENT AND FORCED ME TO WATCH BRIDEZILLA RERUNS WHILE IT COMPLETED I wish the forum would allow for something bigger than just capital letters. I miss mega fonts. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
142
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:02:00 -
[496] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:A "Thorax"! Of COURSE! *slaps head* At best equipped with "720mm Artillery" for a huge load of "damage" and "thrust"!
Its PERFECT!
.) Perfect "form" .) Perfect "size" .) Great "manouverability" .) Even has a bonus on "durability" .) "Drones" for that little "extra"
Woah! You need "help" to "sink" those "costs" , because I "know" a "gal" ?
Also, thanks for all the space-likes. It almost makes my avatar feel better about herself. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1205
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:05:00 -
[497] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Mag's wrote:[uote]You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with. Cant believe i didnt think of this earlier. ^_^
You were having too much "fun" with your "nanoed" "frigate" to be thinking clearly.
see? I can do it too!
/biomasses self |
Whitehound
1182
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:08:00 -
[498] - Quote
By the way, is it true that when a thread reaches 1000 pages and one posts the last comment then one wins a trip to Iceland? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13188
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:09:00 -
[499] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:No. You only got part of what I wrote I got all of it, and I questioned it. I'll take that as you not wanting to answer the questions then, so I'll try again:
What did they lose? How is the decision any less valid? What has changed in the environment? How does being able to fly barges at max bonus, being able to instantly train into exhumers, being able to fly indy-CS (what their decisions yielded before) differ from being able to fly barges at max bonus, being able to instantly train into exhumers, being able to fly indy-CS (what their decisions will yield after the change)? Why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything? And why did you make up the lie about CCP handing out Mining Barge V?
I'll only give you more shot at this, or I'll conclude that you agree in full with the their being no loss and thus no grounds for reimbursement (thus making it the third time you come to that conclusion), and that answering these questions would reveal this, which is why you're doing your best (i.e. not very well) trying to avoid them.
March rabbit wrote:question wasn't for me but i will try: have you heard about opportunity cost? Yes. It's not really applicable to costs you've paid in the past and for which you have gained the full set of benefits ever since (and ever after). What you have there is a sunk cost with persistent rewards that you accepted as entirely reasonable at the time and which therefore are entirely reasonable forever. If other people at some other point has paid a different cost is of no relevance GÇö what mattered was the cost and benefit at the time and whether or not you thought one was worth the other.
Quote:Someone could put these SP used for Mining Barge V (or whatever skills needed to fly Orca) into something more useful. No, they couldn't. Or, well, yes, they could, but then they would not have had the Orca and there would still be no grounds for reimbursement since they still hadn't lost anything. Those that did spend their time on MB V got something that's still useful: MB V. Since it still has a use, it's not really lostGǪ Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Haulie Berry
252
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:09:00 -
[500] - Quote
And while we're at it, why should orca pilots be special, exactly?
If the only reason I trained BS to 5 was to fly capital ships, should I have those SPs reimbursed?
If I only trained assault ships or covert ops so I could fly HACs or Recons, what about those? What about people who trained Logi/Hac and their prerequisite skills to fly a command ship? Indie 5 for freighters?
And why stop there, even?
Should CCP reimburse me for all the time I wasted while waiting for scans to complete in the old scan system? Had I done those scans under the new system, they would have taken, what, maybe 5% as long to complete at the outside?
The rules are always subject to change - you don't get a cookie every time such a change devalues one of your sunk costs. If you're not incorporating such a possibility into your decision making process, that's a personal problem. |
|
Remiel Pollard
Intergalactic Trade and Harm
1409
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:09:00 -
[501] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Mag's wrote:[uote]You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with. Cant believe i didnt think of this earlier. ^_^ You were having too much "fun" with your "nanoed" "frigate" to be thinking clearly. see? I can do it too! /biomasses self
It's not the "tool" that "matters", it's how you "manoeuvre" it. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Whitehound
1182
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:10:00 -
[502] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I got all of it, and I questioned it. No, you read all of it but you did not comprehend it, which is why you are having questions. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Whitehound
1182
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:12:00 -
[503] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:If the only reason I trained BS to 5 was to fly capital ships, should I have those SPs reimbursed? You need to answer this for yourself. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14435
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:13:00 -
[504] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Velicitia wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Mag's wrote:[uote]You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with. Cant believe i didnt think of this earlier. ^_^ You were having too much "fun" with your "nanoed" "frigate" to be thinking clearly. see? I can do it too! /biomasses self It's not the "tool" that "matters", it's how you "manoeuvre" it. I have tears and everything. Mint. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Remiel Pollard
Intergalactic Trade and Harm
1410
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:17:00 -
[505] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:If the only reason I trained BS to 5 was to fly capital ships, should I have those SPs reimbursed? You need to answer this for yourself.
The only reason I drove to the servo* was for a bottle of milk. They didn't have any in stock. Should they now pay for the fuel I wasted?
If I was allowed to answer this for myself, and I was being honest, I would say no. But if I was gonna be whiny and butthurt about it, I'd be taking exact measurements on every trip, just in case.
*For those that don't understand, "servo" = Australian slang for service station, aka petrol/gas station, aka "garage" You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1149
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:21:00 -
[506] - Quote
What I cannot fathom is how this thread got to this many pages without:
A) Whitehound getting forum banned again - amazing restraint there, old bean. B) Tippia having an aneurysm from saying the same thing over and over again to the same people. You really are a saint, you know? C) The ISD not locking the **** out of this thread on page 16 or 17. Apparently, if you amuse the forum gods, they are benevolent in the meting out of their justice.
All that aside, why are we still having to talk about this?
Let me rephrase this in the same manner I explain things to my children.
Kids: Da can we have skill points reimbursed because you nerfed cable and we don't like these shows anymore? Me: No. Kids: Why not? Me: There is no why, you asked a question and I answered it. Kids: But... Me: Go clean your rooms. Kids: *scatter*
Now, can we go back to the Dave and Solstice show? That was actually funny. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13188
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:23:00 -
[507] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:No, you read all [yadda yadda irrelevant and incorrect non-answers to the questions] So you agree, then GÇö for the third time GÇö that there is no grounds for reimbursement. Well, I suppose that settles that, then.
Thank you for finally seeing things our way even if it had to be dragged out of you. Had it not been easier to just say that to begin with? Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Haulie Berry
253
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:24:00 -
[508] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:If the only reason I trained BS to 5 was to fly capital ships, should I have those SPs reimbursed? You need to answer this for yourself.
I don't, really, because it was a rhetorical question.
Decisions are intended to have a cost in Eve. Being able to hit ctrl-Z on long-past decisions for trivial reasons is the antithesis of that. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14437
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:24:00 -
[509] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Now, can we go back to the Dave and Solstice show? That was actually funny. Wasn't it just. Best in a while. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2908
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:25:00 -
[510] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:You need "help" to "sink" those "costs" , because I "know" a "gal" ? What?
Velicitia wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Mag's wrote:[uote]You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with. Cant believe i didnt think of this earlier. ^_^ You were having too much "fun" with your "nanoed" "frigate" to be thinking clearly. see? I can do it too! /biomasses self Dont feel bad about it. :) Just express your "fitting" "desires". ^_^ |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 .. 21 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |