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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2625
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Posted - 2013.03.08 13:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:I guess these forums are dominated by idiots or trolls. So I'm done here. Good day. Goodbye NPC alt guy. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Dave Stark
1932
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:What about the itty 5? Bet loads of people spent the weeks required to train that. That too is going to be made redundant by the changes. But, we've got no choice but to just go with CCP. Thats how they roll. Actually it won't be redundant at all. The itty V will still be more awesome than the others when you have the gallente industrial skill trained to 5 & it will be awful if you only have it trained to 1. Having a race specific industrial skill also allow you to train for freighters.
only thing is, they've not rebalanced the industrials yet so the fact that the current itty V beats every other t1 industrial is irrelevant even with the upcoming skill changes.
even so i'm pretty sure the current itty V at gallente industrial I is still bigger in terms of cargo capacity than any of the others at industrial V. you're tired, stop posting. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
882
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Quote:I'm happy that they are removed though, the changes in training make skilling up for a ship much more sense. I agree that the new tech tree makes much more sense, and I like it too. I just don't like that some people had to waste a ton of time sinking skill points into something and it was all useless and a waste, and no kind of reimbursement for it. Furthermore, someone under the new system doesn't have to make that sacrifice. "Tough noogies" doesn't seem to be a good explanation here.
Let's be clear , if you have not started in 2004 like me i could name you a ton of stuff you got wich i didn't when you started between 1-7 years ago.In regards of sp starting sp points/training multiplier etc .
Things change .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Cebraio
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
Quote:CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUGÇÖVE CREATED.
I did not write this screaming part. It's from here. Terms of service. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2625
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:What about the itty 5? Bet loads of people spent the weeks required to train that. That too is going to be made redundant by the changes. But, we've got no choice but to just go with CCP. Thats how they roll. Actually it won't be redundant at all. The itty V will still be more awesome than the others when you have the gallente industrial skill trained to 5 & it will be awful if you only have it trained to 1. Having a race specific industrial skill also allow you to train for freighters. only thing is, they've not rebalanced the industrials yet so the fact that the current itty V beats every other t1 industrial is irrelevant even with the upcoming skill changes. even so i'm pretty sure the current itty V at gallente industrial I is still bigger in terms of cargo capacity than any of the others at industrial V.
True, but he was arguing that the ship will be redunant, when it clearly isn't. Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Dave Stark
1932
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:48:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:What about the itty 5? Bet loads of people spent the weeks required to train that. That too is going to be made redundant by the changes. But, we've got no choice but to just go with CCP. Thats how they roll. Actually it won't be redundant at all. The itty V will still be more awesome than the others when you have the gallente industrial skill trained to 5 & it will be awful if you only have it trained to 1. Having a race specific industrial skill also allow you to train for freighters. only thing is, they've not rebalanced the industrials yet so the fact that the current itty V beats every other t1 industrial is irrelevant even with the upcoming skill changes. even so i'm pretty sure the current itty V at gallente industrial I is still bigger in terms of cargo capacity than any of the others at industrial V. True, but he was arguing that the ship will be redunant, when it clearly isn't.
if anything it's the only ship that won't be redundant. you're tired, stop posting. |
Whitehound
1161
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:49:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cebraio wrote:Quote:CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUGÇÖVE CREATED. I did not write this screaming part. It's from here. Terms of service. It does not mean we cannot discuss it or that you can use it to shut up discussions.
You people really worry too much over stuff you believe you will not be getting anyway. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Cebraio
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Cebraio wrote:Quote:CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUGÇÖVE CREATED. I did not write this screaming part. It's from here. Terms of service. It does not mean we cannot discuss it or that you can use it to shut up discussions. You people really worry too much over stuff you believe you will not be getting anyway. You can discuss all you want and I don't care if this thread goes on for another 20 pages. |
Fatbear
Starwinders SCUM.
17
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Posted - 2013.03.08 13:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote: I feel hard done by
If Orca training was being changed from 60 days to 360 days, I doubt you'd be posting to volunteer that all existing Orca pilots should have to do the extra training.
Get over it.
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Ella Narina
Income Savings Plan
1
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Posted - 2013.03.08 13:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
I think one point not mentioned, or I missed, is in the game overall players are going to have to train longer for the ships we (older players) had to spend. Racial ships, for example. it's going to take a lot longer for the newer players to cross train all the racial ships that it did for us. I think this will more than make up for the 30 days shorter orca time. it's a painful process re-balance... but here we are.
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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2844
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 14:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:I guess these forums are dominated by idiots or trolls. So I'm done here. Good day. By your own words, CCP is full of idiots or trolls, because they do not agree with you either.
Too bad you can not that the only idiot is he who cant accept reality. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3633
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 14:22:00 -
[72] - Quote
Cebraio wrote: You can discuss all you want and I don't care if this thread goes on for another 20 pages.
And that's why it needs some Kittens and Squirrels ! Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Virginia Virdana
Envoy Fast Deployment
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 14:42:00 -
[73] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:I guess these forums are dominated by idiots or trolls. So I'm done here. Good day.
We are neither trolls or idiots because we don't agree with your flawed premise, which has been already talked to death, is not going to change a thing and, as the thread went on, was increasingly rambling and chaotic.
You are the equivalent of a someone who decides in September that they will buy their winter coat in the January sales when it'll be half price, and then whines about being cold from October to December.
And good day to you too. They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.You appear to have come armed with a spoon. |
Whitehound
1161
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:11:00 -
[74] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Cebraio wrote: You can discuss all you want and I don't care if this thread goes on for another 20 pages.
And that's why it needs some Kittens and Squirrels ! Uuuuuhhhh .... Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
68
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Asmodai Xodai wrote:I guess these forums are dominated by idiots or trolls. So I'm done here. Good day. By your own words, CCP is full of idiots or trolls, because they do not agree with you either. The only idiot is he who cant accept reality.
Well, sometimes You just have to stare into realities hideous face, stomp with Your foot on the ground and shout NO!
EDIT: I forgott the smiley, always add smileys when telling jokes they're like little toothy signs saying "This is a joke and it's not on You." most of times at least. :) There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
247
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Roime wrote:Whether or not you use the skills you have trained out of your free will doesn't make a cause for reimbursement. It's your own personal choice not to mine even after training for a mining ship. True. Only is CCP going to change it, because CCP thinks these skill choices are unnecessary. Many players knew about the lack of necessity, but accepted it as a part of the requirement for getting into an Orca, or else could they not have gotten into it. There was simply no choice for them. The reason for why a reimbursement should be given is not just because a few players want it, this sure will always be the case when skills change, but because CCP is making this change and it invalidates players' skill choices of the past. I am sure many Orca pilots will have trained Exhumers I in addition just to profit from this in their own way. These players should not get a reimbursement as they not only accepted it but used it for further training. Only those who did not should be allowed to reallocate some of their skill points. It is likely a very small group of people and also the reason why the discussion on this is largely biased, because most of who post here will not be part of this group.
Not really.
Again, those pilots ALREADY gained benefits from having those skills trained to use a ship *NOW* before the requirements are lowered. "Value obtained" style.
Just like when Steam holds a game sale a year after someone bought their game and they want the difference refunded... Sorry dude - you had your fun at that price when you got it.
Be happy with what you had from then until now - versus whining about wanting it for less when "the price drops". They don't give reimbursements like that and I don't see why CCP should either.
By your logic, when Survey was lowered from 5 to get Archeology, those pilots should have been reimbursed and any capitol pilot should be reimbursed both tier 4 and 5 of battleships being as that won't be a requirement anymore -- so on and so forth.
Yeah you are bringing up a plug ugly can of worms and no, I really don't find your arguments all that sound. |
SB Rico
the united Negative Ten.
174
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
Just like to point out that in the 5 1/2 yearss I have played this game I have seen...
Stealth bombers changed to torp boats... Did i get reibmursed? Nano HACs nerfed hard enough to make HACs no longer the top of the tree... Reimbursment? Drone bays removed from dreads... SP back?
etc..
On the other hand...
Learning skills REMOVED Reimbursed Connections skills REMOVED Reimbursed And now looking at removal off Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills for which I am being compensated.
Bottom line you have the skills trained you may not want to make use of them but you COULD.
(A good case here is SBs which were the only reason I trained cruise missiles - however much I dislike cruise ships I COULD still use them and as such do not deserve my sp back)
As someone else said reimbursing mining ships on this is a Pandora's box with all the similar things in the past CCP would suddenly be inundated with people pointing out they should get SP back from all sorts of changes in the past.
Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.
Killing me should be for free. |
Whitehound
1163
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 17:48:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Not really.
Again, those pilots ALREADY gained benefits from having those skills trained to use a ship *NOW* before the requirements are lowered. "Value obtained" style... Some have already said that they did not benefit from it and it is the reason they are asking for a reimbursement. You simply assume too much. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13138
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:05:00 -
[79] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Some have already said that they did not benefit from it and it is the reason they are asking for a reimbursement. If they didn't benefit from it, they shouldn't have trained it to begin with. Their poor decision-making skills are not grounds for compensation.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
T'Laar Bok
63
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:16:00 -
[80] - Quote
Its happened before and I'm sure it'll happen again.
My coping mechanism is to say something appropriate such as "Sh!t" and shrug my shoulders.
It works well, you should try it and keep an eye on your blood pressure. Amphetimines are your friend.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok |
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Asmodai Xodai
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.03.08 18:18:00 -
[81] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Some have already said that they did not benefit from it and it is the reason they are asking for a reimbursement. If they didn't benefit from it, they shouldn't have trained it to begin with. Their poor decision-making skills are not grounds for compensation.
So let me get this straight for future reference. When training a skill, I am supposed to magically know that sometime in the future they will remove requirements for the skill which I don't want, will be useless to me, and will be no benefit to me, yet I am forced to train those requirements that I don't have use for anyway when training this skill. Now, when I don't magically know these things, I "shouldn't have trained it to begin with," and this reflects "poor decision making skills." Got it.
Earlier I said that this forum is obviously infested with idiots and trolls, but I wasn't sure which. I think I have my answer now: idiots. |
Whitehound
1164
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Some have already said that they did not benefit from it and it is the reason they are asking for a reimbursement. If they didn't benefit from it, they shouldn't have trained it to begin with. Their poor decision-making skills are not grounds for compensation. They had no choice if they wanted to get into an Orca. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2844
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
What exactly is the point of this thread, besides ranting about things that won't change ?
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3709
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 19:05:00 -
[84] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Some have already said that they did not benefit from it and it is the reason they are asking for a reimbursement. If they didn't benefit from it, they shouldn't have trained it to begin with. Their poor decision-making skills are not grounds for compensation. They had no choice if they wanted to get into an Orca. Nobody forced them to train for an Orca. In fact many people who probably will train for an Orca after the change purposefully did NOT train it up before hand due to the load of other skills required... because they preferred not to train the other skills that they would likely never use on that character.
Training for an Orca was a voluntary decision. Not putting the other skills to use that you had to train is a voluntary decision. The abilities those skills give your character has not changed. If you did train for an Orca, you will be able to do exactly every single thing you could do before, you have lost nothing. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2844
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 19:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
Why even try ? You KNOW it's no use. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3709
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 19:32:00 -
[86] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Why even try ? You KNOW it's no use. It makes me happy.
When CCP reimbursed the learning skills they clearly pointed out what their parameters were for skill point reimbursement. They reiterated them again quite clearly this time. The reason why they were so specific was because, as they and most of the EvE community pointed out, that the reimbursement (and the system developed to support it) would be used as an excuse to try and justify reimbursement for every single balance and skill related tweak that would come down the pipe from that point on.
... and they (we) were right, as this thread so clearly points out.
I love being proven correct. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Whitehound
1164
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 19:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Nobody forced them to train for an Orca. I know! It is strange how some players stick with the game even after years. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Arcaus Rotrau Romali
Apex Nebula Ventures
30
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 20:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
I can train into a freighter in about 16 days now or probably twice as long after the change ... I'll deal with it. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2929
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 20:20:00 -
[89] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:You keep quoting 'sunk costs' like it is some kind of magical term or something. It sounds like you just got out of a business class. 'Sunk costs' is irrelevant here, because I'm not asking what decision I should make going forward from this moment.
As to the remainder of what you wrote, I will try once again. Same exact scenario we have now, but let's change some parameters.
1. First, let's put YOUR skin in the game. It isn't me that is affected by this, but YOU.
2. You didn't just lose a month or two skilling into something. Let's say you lost 2 full years. Yes, two full years because CCP came out with some new ultra-mega titan, and you wanted it. You teched straight to it, foregoing everything else you could have teched (economy, cruisers, battleships, etc). You stayed in frigates so you could tech to this.
3. The skill points which went into this ultra-mega titan can't go into anything else. They are useless outside of the mega-titan.
4. You aren't some veteran player who has teched to everything else he could possibly want and has nothing else he could throw skill points into (in other words, you aren't someone who stands to lose little if skill points are thrown away). You are a newer player who has teched to virtually nothing.
Now, when you are a few weeks away from getting into this death star, CCP pulls the rug out from under you, and lets all players get into it inside of a week.
All I did here was take the same situation and adjust variables (length of time spent teching, etc) to try and find out if this makes any difference to you or not. If it does, then we agree and you are simply quibbling about details thinking they have an effect on the general principle when they don't. If it doesn't, you are a troll, an alien, or a masochist.
1. Already true, so Ok.
2. Ok, sure.
3. You're deviating pretty far from your issue with the Orca (as the Orca's skills can be used for other ships), so you've already made your hypothetical situation irrelevant.
4. Then I probably shouldn't be training for something of such limited use that I would be devastated if I found that other people could train into it.
5. Then I get into it ["a few weeks" minus a week] earlier than I otherwise would have. (Also, in the case of the Orca, CCP gave more notice than the entire time it takes to train up from 0, so the comparable case would be CCP announcing the change over two years in advance, which would mean that I get my SuperTitan 2 years before anyone waiting for the patch.) I get my super titan, and I get it earlier than I expected to. I'm happy.
6. You actually changed quite a few very important things. Enough to make your comparison invalid. Like the fact that the current tree has numerous uses aside from flying the Orca, and that CCP is giving notice that exceeds the entire training time of the Orca.
Incidentally, the only reason I trained for an Orca was for its ability to haul cargo hidden from ship scanners. Now that it has lost that ability, my ability to fly Orcas has very little utility to me. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
389
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 21:56:00 -
[90] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Nexus Day wrote:
What CCP has done is lower the barrier for competition.This is not the same as making a skill useless.
That much I do agree with.....most indeed. Is CCP deciding to make everything easy all of a sudden ? Lowering the barrier to compete is not equivalent to making it easier to compete. it just means more people with less experience will try and fail to become relevant. |
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