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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:09:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 15/08/2005 16:14:09
Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Dsanta2345 for the bold rethink on how cold and hot space is....
Vacuum is an eccelent isolation material. The heat will be going nowhere.
Quoted for truth. Temperature is a strange little concept in a vacuum - since its defined as the mean kinetic energy of all molecules in the system you get weird results when you have say 3 hydrogen ions/m3 or something. While the 3 ions may have very little energy (very low temp), you may have some issues with trying to dump energy from a very hot gun into 3 hydrogen ions - you'll raise the temperature a lot but not move much heat in the process.
(looking at another thread, I'm about to be nitpicked apart - classical thermodynamics don't apply exactly to a couple subatmoic particles, but the jist of the example remains)
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/08/2005 15:47:38
Originally by: Meer
Originally by: Hllaxiu
By reversing the hull polarity and diverting power to the main deflector you can reduce the effects of solar plasma to such an extent that your shield can handle it naturally.
So why can't I do that while being attack with thermal weapons?
Because they modulated their phasers to reverse the polartity of the warp containment field, causing a chain reaction in the deflector array!
Suddenly it all makes sense
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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:31:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sku1ly So you're not happy with stars not damaging you, but you're happy with the fact that we'r all aliens sitting in giant easter eggs blowing the **** out of everything?
I'm not happy with things that have no obvious reason. Suns not causing damage is one of them. Others?
-Ice planets right next to suns - Smokestacks with flames coming out of them on space stations. -Space stations with rotating lights like lighthouses have.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Meer I'm not happy with things that have no obvious reason. Suns not causing damage is one of them. Others?
-Ice planets right next to suns - Smokestacks with flames coming out of them on space stations. -Space stations with rotating lights like lighthouses have.
Ice planets. I'll give you that, it is a little odd.
Smokestacks. I'd hardly call what comes out of those "smoke". More like an energized plasma discharge (Trek!). Which makes sense, given it could be there for some kind of refining purpose.
Lights on stations. They're called "beacons". You'll notice them at airports too, big ones. Sure they should be high tech monster LED arrays, but a single light spinning is cheaper and maybe even more efficient somehow. *shrug*
You want implausible? How does ANY minmatar ship make sense? :)
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Meer I'm not happy with things that have no obvious reason. Suns not causing damage is one of them. Others?
-Ice planets right next to suns - Smokestacks with flames coming out of them on space stations. -Space stations with rotating lights like lighthouses have.
Ice planets. I'll give you that, it is a little odd.
Smokestacks. I'd hardly call what comes out of those "smoke". More like an energized plasma discharge (Trek!). Which makes sense, given it could be there for some kind of refining purpose.
Lights on stations. They're called "beacons". You'll notice them at airports too, big ones. Sure they should be high tech monster LED arrays, but a single light spinning is cheaper and maybe even more efficient somehow. *shrug*
You want implausible? How does ANY minmatar ship make sense? :)
It's not so much that there are lights, it's the idea of a single spinning one. On a lighthouse it's there so that when there is fog ships don't run into the shore. It just doesn't make sense in space.
I'll give ya the smokestack bit as that could be a reasonable explaination.
Not sure about minmatar ships, what is so strange about them? I never really pay attention to other races ships.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dark Shikari YOU BLASPHEMER.
Earth and Beyond was the greatest MMORPG of its time--serious, expansive, and with great possibilities. It was only stopped by a lack of funding by Electronic Arts.
If E&B was "terrible"--my god what were Everquest, Asheron's Call, and DAoC? Those must be torture machines in comparison!
It was good enough that it kept 1/3 of EVE playing for over a year... thats got to be pretty darn good.
We digress from the topic a smidge, but I'll bite on this one. :)
I'll clarify. The overall gameplay idea behind E&B - a very accessible sci-fi MMO with an excellent team concept - was marred by an inherent immaturity in the story and a complete lack of direction by the developers. This lead to things like brick guns (give me a break...) and a distinct lack of interesting content.
I think EA bit off more than they could chew. I think if it ditched a hokey story and aloof atmosphere it would have been a much better game. EVE drew me in with a much more mature background and ongoing story, as well as the dark degraded setting. Where everyone's ship in E&B was sparkly shiny new, here we've got scuffed up ships (or complete rustbuckets like Minmatar ships *DUCK*), and dirty stations. The latter is a more plausible vision of a future post-war space culture.
E&B is kind of like Star Trek that way, whereas EVE is like the new Battlestar Galactica.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:50:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Meer Not sure about minmatar ships, what is so strange about them? I never really pay attention to other races ships.
Well, there's the fact like they all look like stuff being carted away from a building that just burned down... :)
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:55:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 15/08/2005 16:54:53 The sun is the benevolent maker that and sunblock.
[23] |
Plymer Ization
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Meer Not sure about minmatar ships, what is so strange about them? I never really pay attention to other races ships.
Well, there's the fact like they all look like stuff being carted away from a building that just burned down... :)
I happen to enjoy my burnt, crusty piles of debris. :)
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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Meer Not sure about minmatar ships, what is so strange about them? I never really pay attention to other races ships.
Well, there's the fact like they all look like stuff being carted away from a building that just burned down... :)
Could it be due to who their ancestors are? (just guessing here).
Like I see the Gallente are the decendants of the French. French are known for art and architechture. So their stations are very artsy using lots of curves and glass like substances.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Dark Shikari YOU BLASPHEMER.
Earth and Beyond was the greatest MMORPG of its time--serious, expansive, and with great possibilities. It was only stopped by a lack of funding by Electronic Arts.
If E&B was "terrible"--my god what were Everquest, Asheron's Call, and DAoC? Those must be torture machines in comparison!
It was good enough that it kept 1/3 of EVE playing for over a year... thats got to be pretty darn good.
We digress from the topic a smidge, but I'll bite on this one. :)
I'll clarify. The overall gameplay idea behind E&B - a very accessible sci-fi MMO with an excellent team concept - was marred by an inherent immaturity in the story and a complete lack of direction by the developers. This lead to things like brick guns (give me a break...) and a distinct lack of interesting content.
I think EA bit off more than they could chew. I think if it ditched a hokey story and aloof atmosphere it would have been a much better game. EVE drew me in with a much more mature background and ongoing story, as well as the dark degraded setting. Where everyone's ship in E&B was sparkly shiny new, here we've got scuffed up ships (or complete rustbuckets like Minmatar ships *DUCK*), and dirty stations. The latter is a more plausible vision of a future post-war space culture.
E&B is kind of like Star Trek that way, whereas EVE is like the new Battlestar Galactica.
In a way, probably right. EVE however is a very rare MMORPG--a mature, serious one. E&B was silly, but it fit the mood, IMO. -- Proud member of the [23].
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dark Shikari In a way, probably right. EVE however is a very rare MMORPG--a mature, serious one. E&B was silly, but it fit the mood, IMO.
Oh for what it was, I could see people enjoying it, and I did for a time. Then I saw that Angelice EVE trailer and realized that was the game I wanted to be playing all along. :) For what it's worth, I honestly wish E&B was still running. I wouldn't play it, but there were plenty of people who enjoyed it, and 'competition' between games in a genre is good.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Xavier Holtzman
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:14:00 -
[43]
This whole thread reminds me of the 4 year old who continually asks the question "why?".
-=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Draaven
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Meer
I'm not happy with things that have no obvious reason. Suns not causing damage is one of them. Others?
-Ice planets right next to suns - Smokestacks with flames coming out of them on space stations. -Space stations with rotating lights like lighthouses have.
That's another one which bothers me a little. It almost seems like the skins for the planets were selected randomly--again, that's easily understandable given the number of systems and the amount of time and work they'd have to allocate to make it 'accurate'.
It would be nice if the 'earthy landmass/ocean' textures were restricted to worlds approximately 1AU from the local star, with varying exceptions that scaled to the type of star (which they do catalogue), i.e. yellow star to earth-world distance =~ 1AU; blue star to earth-world distance =~ 5AU (since they burn a lot hotter).
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Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman This whole thread reminds me of the 4 year old who continually asks the question "why?".
I know. As this is a game for more mature people everyone should act like adults. In real life adults get up, the go to work, do the same thing they do every day, go home, and go to sleep. Never asking questions, never wondering why, just accepting as it is the way things are. So in Eve we should sign in, do the same thing everyday, and sign out. Never questioning or asking why.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:06:00 -
[46]
Why does everyone think that the surface of a star is so hot? Even for a supergiant blue star, it isn't likely to get above 30,000 degrees; it shouldn't be hard for scientists to figure a shield that can keep that out indefinitely.
The difference with a thermal weapon, is that it's being deliberately fired at you, by a piece of machinery specifically designed to do the job. The star just sits there lobbing out electromagnetic radiation at a constant rate.
_______ I tried strip mining, but I lost and it's cold flying around in space naked. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Why does everyone think that the surface of a star is so hot? Even for a supergiant blue star, it isn't likely to get above 30,000 degrees; it shouldn't be hard for scientists to figure a shield that can keep that out indefinitely.
The difference with a thermal weapon, is that it's being deliberately fired at you, by a piece of machinery specifically designed to do the job. The star just sits there lobbing out electromagnetic radiation at a constant rate.
It's not so much hot as in "oh crap I dropped my cigarette on my lap" hot, it's more along the lines that there's all sorts of nasty radiation that blasts forth from it. Without the atmosphere and the magnetic field, Earth would be as barren as Bea Arthur.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:09:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Winterblink
It's not so much hot as in "oh crap I dropped my cigarette on my lap" hot, it's more along the lines that there's all sorts of nasty radiation that blasts forth from it. Without the atmosphere and the magnetic field, Earth would be as barren as Bea Arthur.
But that would come under the heading of E-M damage .. and nobody ever complains about the stars not doing E-M damage. Just that they should be hot
_______ I tried strip mining, but I lost and it's cold flying around in space naked. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:11:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr But that would come under the heading of E-M damage .. and nobody ever complains about the stars not doing E-M damage. Just that they should be hot
Well I imagine at the distances the OP mentioned the thermal radiation would be more than enough to incinerate our ships in an instant. But then again our lasers have an effective range that is absurdly low when you consider that they are LASERS.
And before someone says "focusing!", what year is this game set in? I imagine they have lenses that can do the trick.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Nira Li
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:13:00 -
[50]
I want to be able to blow up a sun, so I can create a blackhole and poon a whole fleet in a system
You Will Cry My Name Dies Irae Dies Illa Solvet Cosmos In Favilla Vocamus Te Aeshma-Diva |
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:26:00 -
[51]
"-Ice planets right next to suns"
It's really, really cold, well frozen ice.
"- Smokestacks with flames coming out of them on space stations."
With all these really really cold ice planets around it's cold in space and you gotta keep the station warm somehow.
"-Space stations with rotating lights like lighthouses have."
With all the smoke from smokestacks obscuring the view, the ships could lose their way to station...
:s
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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:36:00 -
[52]
OK, just want to point out something...
Look at the size of the sun compared to your ship when you are "1000m" from it. Does it look to be 10,000,000 times the size of planet earth?
No.
Simple answer: When "1000m" from the sun you are actually 1000 meters from the distance at which your ship can no longer operate safely -- due to solar flares, radiation, electromagnetic fields, and the sheer gravity of a star.
Same with planets -- when a planet shows 0m from you, you are still some distance from the surface. So 0m is actually where the ionosphere starts which our ships are (currently) unable to safely pass through.
----
Either that, or the EVE universe is filled with some very tiny planets and suns.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kraven Kor Simple answer: When "1000m" from the sun you are actually 1000 meters from the distance at which your ship can no longer operate safely -- due to solar flares, radiation, electromagnetic fields, and the sheer gravity of a star.
Lets assume for a moment that said distance is say oh about as far out as Mercury is in our solar system. The size of the sun would fill the screen at that distance, whereas here it's ... well, not so big.
Originally by: Kraven Kor Either that, or the EVE universe is filled with some very tiny planets and suns.
I took my interceptor right up against a moon once... they're pretty tiny. :)
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Meer
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Why does everyone think that the surface of a star is so hot? Even for a supergiant blue star, it isn't likely to get above 30,000 degrees; it shouldn't be hard for scientists to figure a shield that can keep that out indefinitely.
The difference with a thermal weapon, is that it's being deliberately fired at you, by a piece of machinery specifically designed to do the job. The star just sits there lobbing out electromagnetic radiation at a constant rate.
Because the very defination of a sun is that its a celestial body comprised of hot gas. The closer you get to the sun, the hotter the temperature gets. It is why the daytime surface temp of Mercury is about 623 K with no atmosphere.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Meer Because the very defination of a sun is that its a celestial body comprised of hot gas. The closer you get to the sun, the hotter the temperature gets. It is why the daytime surface temp of Mercury is about 623 K with no atmosphere.
And that's hot. But not THAT hot. Zero K is -273C (approx), which means it's only around 350 degrees. I'm pretty sure our big shiny spaceships and shielding can handle 350 degrees.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Zaldiri
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Posted - 2005.08.15 20:40:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Zaldiri on 15/08/2005 20:41:22 The shields and armour in eve are easily strong enough to withstad the heat of the core of the star, if it is applied to more than about 30% of the armours/shields surface area. Then armour/shield can the easily distribute the heat over the entire surface.
Becuase or unique nanometalgurgural technuiqes the heat is converted into chemical energy in the form of unbreakable bonds between the shield particals/armour molecules. The only reason why ships are acctualy damaged by heat is if it as applied suddenly (as with a smarbomb or other wide area thermal device) or to a very small area (a beam laser) or both (pulse lasers).
This does create the bonds, however in this case those bond s draw energy away from the rest of the shield/amrous resulting in damage.
Satisfied Meer?
----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2005.08.15 20:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Winterblink Well I'll admit the first time I warped to a star I figured the radiation at that range would tear my armor off within a millisecond. It would be kind of nifty to have it damage you over time. Might add an interesting element to PVP, where you can say screw it, fly to the star to get away and if you're followed well hey, wait and see who dies first.
Love to see the killmail from that though, where one of the related parties is a star. :)
Heh, first time I warped through a planet I saw the planet comming at me and I was clicking STOP STOP STOP YOU BASTARD!!! STTOOOOOOPPPPPP!!!!!!!! Thinking I was going to die, and not having enough money for a clone, I thought I'd have to start my character over completely from scratch with 0 skill points and no ISK.
See, I come from a diff game, where Eve's death penalty is a joke. So the next time you complain about Eve's death penalty, just remember, it ain't nothin compared to what it could be. ;)
Oh, and I had the same fear about warping in too close to the sun as well. Would be neat if at least the sun caused damage though. Maybe they'll add that in when they add in the new 'zones' that have diff attributes like reduced speed, reduced capacitor recharge, and stuff like that... just add in a 'zone' around the sun that cuases thermal damage to ship, since then they'll have code that should work for just that.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.08.15 21:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Zaldiri Edited by: Zaldiri on 15/08/2005 20:41:22 The shields and armour in eve are easily strong enough to withstad the heat of the core of the star...
Now that, I would doubt. The core of a star could be anything up to approaching a thousand million degrees. But the surface, which is going to be a mere few thousand, or few tens of thousands ... noooo problem.
_______ I tried strip mining, but I lost and it's cold flying around in space naked. |
Delusion 'Fel
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Posted - 2005.08.15 21:10:00 -
[59]
Environmental damage to ships would be pretty funky, but theres a few more aspects you could play with by "increasing the realism".
Gravity, for example, could be pretty fun. Coupled with radiation hazards itd make stars pretty lethal for slower ships. Then again, fast ones could make use of the gravity, perhaps with some advanced navigation skill, to slingshot themselves, increasing warp ranges, or just giving them some tasty acceleration.
If you want to get really advanced, you could apply the laws of gravitational lensing, and use stars or large objects to further focus impacts from laser weapons, or to allow for "trick shots", symaltaneously lowering the effect of other weapons which are subject to the effects of gravitation, possibly to the extent that in some situations you might want a laser for doing more than just dropping shields in some instances.
Some great ideas here though, i hope they get noticed :)
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.15 21:54:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Winterblink
I took my interceptor right up against a moon once... they're pretty tiny. :)
That was no moon... ______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
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