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Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi there,
I've started to play Eve few years ago, and I love it! It's huge, has no limits and the audio/visual is nice.
So I decided to subscribe.
But then I've started to have doubts. As far, as I know you can buy PLEX for real money and then sell it for ISK. Isn't that spoiling the game economy? I've some bad experiences with other MMO's with that solution. Prices started to get crazy in short time.
Please tell me, that I'm wrong...:)
P.S. And what the AUR currency is?
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Haeri
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
1
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
The short answer is No, it didn't spoil the EVE economy and it won't. Why? In short, the economy is (almost) completely player-driven. If you put a PLEX on the market and someone buys it from you and then uses it to add game time to their account, all that has happened is that isk has been switched around (with some of it being taken out of the game due to taxes and fees). It's a way for players with spare RL money to get some extra isk so that they don't have to spend as much time making isk, and it's a way for people with spare isk to save some RL money by using their isk to pay for more game time.
AUR is a currency created by destroying a PLEX that is used in the NeX store to buy vanity items for your avatar. |
malaire
86
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also, because of supply & demand it is not possible to get infinite amount of ISK by selling PLEX. PLEX is only worth what others are willing to pay for it, and if many players start buying a lot of PLEX with real money and selling them for ISK, price of PLEX in ISK will drop because supply is greater than demand. (This has happened few times when CCP made PLEX-ads which caused more PLEX to be bought with real money.)
About AUR: AUR is separate ingame currency for NeX (Noble Exchange) shop which sells vanity items like clothes. You can exchange 1 PLEX for 3500 AUR. Price of items varies from 1000 AUR to 12000 AUR, so for new players they are far too expensive to even consider buying. Also, CCP is going to give some free AUR soon to all accounts (3rd and 4th reward from http://www.eveisreal.net/#!/sharing-rewards/) so if you do want something from NeX you might want to wait for that.
Note: I don't know if that free AUR is given also to trial accounts or only to paying accounts. Carebear -á* -áTrader -á* -áPerfect Music-á-á* -áNever Scamming -á* -áNever Pirating |
Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you very much for a quick response.
Now I can see, that there's no threat from PLEX. Definitely joining :) |
Aston Bradley
Through the Looking Glass
2
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Torthur Thellere wrote:Thank you very much for a quick response.
Now I can see, that there's no threat from PLEX. Definitely joining :)
It not economy breaking because PLEX are part of the economy. If you could just buy isks for real money that would be the case but you are not buying ISK for real money. You pay real money for a good that other players will pay you isks for. Since a great deal of players would rather farm isks to get PLEX to keep their accounts running, it's regulated by the offer-demand rule. Just remember that when you sell a plex, it's not CCP giving you Isks, it's a player buying it from you. As an exchangable good, it plays by the the game's market rule.
If you buy a 100000 PLEX :
1) You may offer more than what the market actually demands.
2) You will the PLEX supply. This may result to a great devaluation of plex, as this what happens when supply>demand. If you inject too much PLEX on the market, you'll just force other suppliers to break the prices.
So you see, PLEX isn't a simple buy isks with real money system. It will make the loss of an expensive ship a lot easier to deal with, but it preatty much stops there. The market is safe for now.
Some may bad talk about the PLEX, but it's actually a well though system. You can either buy them for isks and keep playing without giving real money, or you can use real money to sell PLEX for a small boost in your wallet (350M isks might look like much, but you can loose Billions of isks in seconds in this game). |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
51
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Posted - 2011.10.14 11:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Torthur Thellere wrote:Hi there,
I've started to play Eve few days ago, and I love it! It's huge, has no limits and the audio/visual is nice.
So I decided to subscribe.
But then I've started to have doubts. As far, as I know you can buy PLEX for real money and then sell it for ISK. Isn't that spoiling the game economy? I've some bad experiences with other MMO's with that solution. Prices started to get crazy in short time.
Please tell me, that I'm wrong...:)
P.S. And what the AUR currency is? The thing is that you buy ISK from other players, it's not magically spawning from anywhere. That said, I don't believe the impact is that big as in some other games. There's some corps/alliances that fund their capital fleets with plex and there's a lot of players that play for free by botting a lot of ISK together and buying plex from other players.
Another thing is that some rich players sell a lot of PLEX and buy themselves a high SkillPoint character, which is also legalized. That way they can buy themselves characters with a few years worth of skilltraining while poor players or those who don't feel investing a few 1000s of $ have to wait a few years.
In the end I'm not overly happy with plex and the legalisation of ISK and character selling for (the gametime equivalent of) RL money but generally I think EVE players seem to like it just because it's "between players". |
malaire
86
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Posted - 2011.10.14 11:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Slightly offtopic, but since this is trial players section I want to add that buying or selling ISK for real money is against game rules and will get you into trouble.
Only exception to this is buying PLEX for real money and selling it for ISK which is what this discussion is about. Carebear -á* -áTrader -á* -áPerfect Music-á-á* -áNever Scamming -á* -áNever Pirating |
Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 12:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm going to subscribe anyway, but...
Jennifer Starling wrote: The thing is that you buy ISK from other players, it's not magically spawning from anywhere. That said, I don't believe the impact is that big as in some other games. There's some corps/alliances that fund their capital fleets with plex and there's a lot of players that play for free by botting a lot of ISK together and buying plex from other players.
ISK is gathered by the hard work right? Mining, trading, engineering etc. It requires time. If you can earn lot of ISK in very short time it loses its value. When ISK value is dropping, prices are growing. Inflation. I've quit previous game because of that. Prices was insane... There was a time when you want to equip yourself, you was practically forced to buy for $ "diamonds" and sell it for game gold. Maybe different story.
Jennifer Starling wrote: Another thing is that some rich players sell a lot of PLEX and buy themselves a high SkillPoint character, which is also legalized. That way they can buy themselves characters with a few years worth of skilltraining while poor players or those who don't feel investing a few 1000s of $ have to wait a few years.
^^
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malaire
86
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Posted - 2011.10.14 12:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Torthur Thellere wrote:ISK is gathered by the hard work right? Mining, trading, engineering etc. It requires time. If you can earn lot of ISK in very short time it loses its value. When ISK value is dropping, prices are growing. Inflation. I've quit previous game because of that. Prices was insane... There was a time when you want to equip yourself, you was practically forced to buy for $ "diamonds" and sell it for game gold. Maybe different story. There are ways to earn a lot of ISK in short time. Selling PLEX is just one example, many scams are also extremely effective. But none of these changes the value of ISK since they just move ISK around and do not inject any new ISK into game.
Also, if you are concerned about inflation, you could read price index dev blogs which are published regularly. Latest is price indices - august 2011 Carebear -á* -áTrader -á* -áPerfect Music-á-á* -áNever Scamming -á* -áNever Pirating |
Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 12:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
malaire wrote:There are ways to earn a lot of ISK in short time. Selling PLEX is just one example, many scams are also extremely effective. But none of these changes the value of ISK since they just move ISK around and do not inject any new ISK into game. It could be argued that some forms of botting (note: botting is against game rules) might be affecting value of ISK since they actually are injecting ISK into EVE, e.g. killing NPC pirates for bounties. Also, if you are concerned about inflation, you could read price index dev blogs which are published regularly. Latest is price indices - august 2011 (and I don't see any inflation there.)
I think you're right.
Just a quick thoughts of mine. |
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malaire
86
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Posted - 2011.10.14 13:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Carebear -á* -áTrader -á* -áPerfect Music-á-á* -áNever Scamming -á* -áNever Pirating |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
51
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Posted - 2011.10.14 13:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
malaire wrote:And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Well what wil they do one might wonder ...
You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way? |
gfldex
8
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Posted - 2011.10.15 06:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Torthur Thellere wrote:When ISK value is dropping, prices are growing. Inflation.
For any complex question there is a simple answer. And that answer is wrong.
If it would be so easy, why is there no inflation in the US with all those $$$ printed?
In EVE there are alternatives to print ISK (yes you can actually do that, the ink is kinda time consuming tho). And those alternatives are way more fun (to the hunter, they pray thinks different ofc). For any minute spend shooting NPCs there are 5 minutes of, well, mostly camping. But you can't fight without a good camp, can you?
There are further huge ISK sinks in the game. The return of investment on most BPOs is a *beep*ing joke. Any char will spend ISK on skillbooks. Have a look at the prices for the carrier skills.
And the most important factor is that there are plenty of idiots who spend their whole day in a belt. No ink there to be seen. But yet, they have to feed the sinks. Quite a lot of those quite the game, locking the goods away they spend so much time to get. One of those goods can even be ISK.
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gfldex
8
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Posted - 2011.10.15 06:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?
Shhhhh, not so loud honey, you gonna get yourself banned!
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Velicitia
Open Designs
0
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Posted - 2011.10.15 17:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Jennifer Starling wrote:You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way? Shhhhh, not so loud honey, you gonna get yourself banned!
Or they just call it AURUM... |
Lukriss
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2011.10.15 20:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:malaire wrote:And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Well what wil they do one might wonder ... You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?
Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy. |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
62
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Posted - 2011.10.15 22:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lukriss wrote:Jennifer Starling wrote:malaire wrote:And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Well what wil they do one might wonder ... You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way? Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy. I wonder if it's noticable when it's a few dozen a day. So many people making billions of ISK with ratting, missions, incursions, insurances .. there's trillions of ISK spawning into the game every month. |
Rhianna Ghost
Eagle Technologies Avateas Blessed
3
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Posted - 2011.10.16 11:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:Lukriss wrote:Jennifer Starling wrote:malaire wrote:And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Well what wil they do one might wonder ... You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way? Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy. I wonder if it's noticable when it's a few dozen a day. So many people making billions of ISK with ratting, missions, incursions, insurances .. there's trillions of ISK spawning into the game every month.
But the return of a few dozen a week will propably not big enough for CCP to risk the giant player uproar should it become public. Or so I hope... |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
58
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:Lukriss wrote:Jennifer Starling wrote:malaire wrote:And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Well what wil they do one might wonder ... You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way? Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy. I wonder if it's noticable when it's a few dozen a day. So many people making billions of ISK with ratting, missions, incursions, insurances .. there's trillions of ISK spawning into the game every month.
Of course, there are also isk being destroyed every month. Ships and fittings that are destroyed in PVE and PVP are isk that are vaporized. They're gone and they're not coming back into the game economy.
I guess the only isk that are being created (as opposed to changing hands between players) are the isk from mining. Wait, and maybe agent rewards for completing missions. I suppose agent rewards and bounty prizes are isk that just spawn in-- i.e they're isk created out of thin air and injected into the economy.
It would be interesting to know what the overall isk created vs. isk destroyed balance is each month. Anybody ever see an sources on the EVE economy and how it really works? |
Velicitia
Open Designs
111
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Posted - 2011.11.22 21:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mining doesn't create ISK out of thin air. It merely creates minerals.
The minerals are traded to other players for the ISK (much like PLEX). |
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Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2011.11.22 21:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:Ships and fittings that are destroyed in PVE and PVP are isk that are vaporized. They're gone and they're not coming back into the game economy.
bzzzzt, wrong. Common misconception though.
They're goods being destroyed, not ISK. The ISK is happily sitting in the wallets of the people you bought the ships from.
In fact, with insurance, you just introduced a little more isk into the game. (unless you keep the ship for many many months, buying plantinum insurance every 12 weeks) so, there is more money, and fewer goods. Hence, prices go up. |
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
25
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Posted - 2011.11.23 03:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Torthur Thellere wrote:Hi there,
I've started to play Eve few days ago, and I love it! It's huge, has no limits and the audio/visual is nice.
So I decided to subscribe.
But then I've started to have doubts. As far, as I know you can buy PLEX for real money and then sell it for ISK. Isn't that spoiling the game economy? I've some bad experiences with other MMO's with that solution. Prices started to get crazy in short time.
Please tell me, that I'm wrong...:)
P.S. And what the AUR currency is?
Yes it ruins it because it is 'Pay to Win", but CCP has no solution for this because they have no talent in the game design department.
Yes you are wasting your time here. |
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
25
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Posted - 2011.11.23 03:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
malaire wrote:Also, because of supply & demand it is not possible to get infinite amount of ISK by selling PLEX. PLEX is only worth what others are willing to pay for it, and if many players start buying a lot of PLEX with real money and selling them for ISK, price of PLEX in ISK will drop because supply is greater than demand. (This has happened few times when CCP made PLEX-ads which caused more PLEX to be bought with real money.) About AUR: AUR is separate ingame currency for NeX (Noble Exchange) shop which sells vanity items like clothes. You can exchange 1 PLEX for 3500 AUR. Price of items varies from 1000 AUR to 12000 AUR, so for new players they are far too expensive to even consider buying. Also, CCP is going to give some free AUR soon to all accounts (3rd and 4th reward from http://www.eveisreal.net/#!/sharing-rewards/) so if you do want something from NeX you might want to wait for that. Note: I don't know if that free AUR is given also to trial accounts or only to paying accounts.
You will note that PLEX prices have increased recently for the very reason you highlight, that being that many are quitting Eve and no longer buying PLEX. Instead they are spending down wallet isk on PLEX, driving the prices up. So yes you can surmise that Eve is on it's last leg. |
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