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2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
167
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Posted - 2013.03.12 18:45:00 -
[121] - Quote
sorry dp. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
664
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:08:00 -
[122] - Quote
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:you are trying to fit a shield tank and a light missile rack?
Thats like saying you want a wolf to have a full armour tank when it's got arty on it.
LML's fit fine with mid slots full of useful things as long as you drop the tank.
Choices choices choices.
I too would like a tanked, mwd hookbill with td/web/scram and stick LML's on it. No one would fly anything else :P
No no, getting a tank on it isn't an issue (MWD fits shouldn't need one as expected), just the fact you need a bunch of fitting mods for a BCU to fit on the ship with LML is kind of annoying when all the other ships can get at least 1 damage mod on a long range fit. |
Xuahn
Aideron Robotics
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:17:00 -
[123] - Quote
Just to try and disprove the "bunch of fitting mods" argument ill grab the first fit off of 2manno Asp's kill board
https://zkillboard.com/detail/29124135/
dual prop lml with bcu and no fitting mods Im sure that could be adjusted for tech2 goodness (maybe have to lose the dual prop) |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1123
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
Xuahn wrote:https://zkillboard.com/detail/28669742/but you again have no tank, and your range is now where near as good, nor is your actual applied dps(looks better on paper i think). Also take into consideration what that single td on the hookbill would do to the tracking/range of this comet Both these fits have 1 thing in common, if they get caught they are dead. I love the hookbill(hell i don't even fly it) its a bad ass little ship. In no way what so ever does it need a buff, Don't really think it needed a nerf either but from what I can tell the changes to it won't be that big a deal. You can fit a shield tank on the nano 150mm rail comet (at the expense of the td). But in any case, that hookbill already has superior range control ability with the dual prop + web/scram + td. So it's really tough to actually "catch" that hookbill in the first place (it's not automatically dead if caught like that comet). And the hookbill wil apply same dps at all ranges (unlike the comet which cannot apply dps at point blank range). |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
167
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:46:00 -
[125] - Quote
Xuahn wrote:Just to try and disprove the "bunch of fitting mods" argument ill grab the first fit off of 2manno Asp's kill board https://zkillboard.com/detail/29124135/dual prop lml with bcu and no fitting mods Im sure that could be adjusted for tech2 goodness (maybe have to lose the dual prop) You could probably do close to the same thing with a comet https://zkillboard.com/detail/28669742/but you again have no tank, and your range is now where near as good, nor is your actual applied dps(looks better on paper i think). Also take into consideration what that single td on the hookbill would do to the tracking/range of this comet Both these fits have 1 thing in common, if they get caught they are dead. I love the hookbill(hell i don't even fly it) its a bad ass little ship. In no way what so ever does it need a buff, Don't really think it needed a nerf either but from what I can tell the changes to it won't be that big a deal.
Actually the dp Hooker isn't usually dead if it gets caught by 1 frigate. That's the point of it really, although I often push it's limits too far.
Anyway, to fit T2 missles you don't necessarily have to have tons of fitting mods. Consider a version of the Dual Damp Hooker.
[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Rudex v2] Internal Force Field Array I Co-Processor I
Gistii B-Type 1MN Microwarpdrive Micro Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 100 Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Warp Disruptor II
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
One co-proc 1 and way better than the Comet in this instance. |
Xuahn
Aideron Robotics
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
True.
Just kinda makes the point i was trying to make, the hookbill was/is fine no idea what ppl are complaining about it.
Thanks for letting me "borrow" your kill board X Gall |
Boris Amarr
Viziam Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 20:09:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER: Fittings: 50 (+3) PWG, 125 (+10) CPU
It is great changes! PWG is unnecessary for IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER but CPU increasing will allow to use Damage Control T2 instead of expensive Internal Force Field Array I.
Additional question. When are you going re-balance Nave Cruisers? Now Omen Navy Issue is sad in comparison with Omen but cost much more. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1125
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 21:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
Boris Amarr wrote: Why IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER is slowest from all Navy frigates. May be it should have more Max Velocity?
Has massive number of low slots for prop mods and excellent damage projection with short range weapons out to 25 km. |
Grunnax Aurelius
luna Oscura Clandestina Armada Fade 2 Black
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:07:00 -
[129] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL: Caldari Frigate bonuses: +10% to light missile and rocket damage +10% to missile velocity Role Bonus: +50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%.
The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out. Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
532
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:32:00 -
[130] - Quote
Hooks with more damage .. I shudder at the thought!
It trades 25-30% dps (comparatively) for absolute and complete control over any and all fights it engages in .. five mids on a frigate is staggeringly HUGE. |
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
251
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Posted - 2013.03.12 23:49:00 -
[131] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out. missile dps != turret dps... |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
845
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 23:51:00 -
[132] - Quote
Hookbill is very strong. I used to fly them and rarely got fights. No one wants to jump in a plex with a hookbill. This will likely be the problem the condor will face, as well.
After ccp removes off grid boosting (and perhaps sobers the condors speed and agility) the kiting ships won't be quite so overpowered and the ships might see more fights. But for now they are best avoided.
The firetail, on the other hand, should see allot more action and is looking very good. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ava Starfire
Gradient Electus Matari
760
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 01:36:00 -
[133] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Lord Rixus wrote:I like all the changes except for slowing down the hookbill... its already the slowest frigate you'll actually find on the field... why slow it down more? Because of 5 midslots.
5 mids is insanely powerful. Low slots do not stack 1:1 as far as power creep and balance goes with mids, and it has easily been the best of the empire faction frigs since the rocket changes. The ability to carry MSE, web, scram, TD, and AB, in addition to its weapons which work fine and dandy at any range, is really, REALLY difficult to beat.
The firetail changes look great; I have never really tried to use it, because, frankly, it's awful. I am looking forward to having a reason to undock in it.
The comet could do with more bandwidth, I think, to bring it in line with others? Though 5 lights and it is dangerously close to simply being a better ishkur (which it almost is already)
The slicer feels fine as it is, but I dont know, ive never flown one, and usually fight them in a Wolf; not the best way to judge them, watching them explode in 3 seconds.
Ava |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
664
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 03:45:00 -
[134] - Quote
Xuahn wrote:Just to try and disprove the "bunch of fitting mods" argument ill grab the first fit off of 2manno Asp's kill board https://zkillboard.com/detail/29124135/dual prop lml with bcu and no fitting mods Im sure that could be adjusted for tech2 goodness (maybe have to lose the dual prop) You could probably do close to the same thing with a comet https://zkillboard.com/detail/28669742/but you again have no tank, and your range is now where near as good, nor is your actual applied dps(looks better on paper i think). Also take into consideration what that single td on the hookbill would do to the tracking/range of this comet Both these fits have 1 thing in common, if they get caught they are dead. I love the hookbill(hell i don't even fly it) its a bad ass little ship. In no way what so ever does it need a buff, Don't really think it needed a nerf either but from what I can tell the changes to it won't be that big a deal.
as I said, it's simply hard to get a BCU, whereas all other boats can fairly easily fit a single damage mod in the lows even with long range weapons (and not downgraded guns either)
I know it can be fit reasonably without damage mods with light missiles, but that's not the point. |
Vimple
Origin. Black Legion.
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 04:08:00 -
[135] - Quote
The extra 25% damage at lvl 5 for the firetail may make it not so useless, granted it still needs a bit more base speed. It is after all just a sick looking rifter, for like 10x the price |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
506
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 08:44:00 -
[136] - Quote
Vimple wrote:The extra 25% damage at lvl 5 for the firetail may make it not so useless, granted it still needs a bit more base speed. It is after all just a sick looking rifter, for like 10x the price
More dmg, more speed, more hp, better fitting....?
edit: ... and damn sexy - Nulla Curas |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Cobalt..
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 09:53:00 -
[137] - Quote
Do Navy comet really need drones? Its a fast ship, and you dont have time to manage drones in combat. So i think its batter to remove them at all or give 25/25 bandwidth/dronehold to be better with drones. |
pyronatic
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
19
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 10:49:00 -
[138] - Quote
As a Gallente Militia Pilot, There's 2 Stats I think that should be changed or looked at again. These Changes are based off by comparing the Tristan to the Comet, Since the Tristan is the tech 1 Variant of the Comet. The targeting range, The Tristan has a base range of 40 km and the Comet has 37.5 km, So for a kiting purpose with drones a Tristan beats the Comet. I think the comet should have at least an equal base range. The second is the drone capacity the Tristan gets a 40 m3 drone bay and the Comet has a 30 m3 drone bay, also the Tristan can launch 5 drones compared to the Comets 3 so its much easier for the Tristan to eliminate the Comet's drones from the fight. I think by giving the Comet 2 more light drones in it's drone bay would make the Comet more appealing to fly than a Tristan. These are just my thought's on the Comet.
"Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30"
"Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km (+5) / 650 (+30) / 5 (+1)"
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Kagura Nikon
Emptiness.
13
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Posted - 2013.03.13 11:33:00 -
[139] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: T1 BCs now have 17 slots, across the board. Command ships have 17, (except the Minmatar ones which have 18,) as well. Personally, I think 17 slots across the board is more than sufficient.
Command ships are booster specialists which can double as heavy combat boats. Boosting is their primary role, their potential firepower and tank is a bonus of their T2 nature. Giving them exceptional tanking bonuses is unwarranted.
There is no sense on having 2 ships for each race focused on fleet bonus if fleet bonus is their role. Specially considering that OGB will be gone in future. Command ships NEED to be stronger, specially, more resilient so they can survive longer in the battlefield. Its simply stupid to have 2 variants of a ship that both do exaclty same thign because only the booster part is the important one. Currently we even have 1 comamdn ship on each lien that is NOT focused on boosters (not more than BC are) and even those are BARELY stronger than a t1 BC. In fact currently a ferox will have a good chance to defeat a nighthawk.. and that is plain stupid. I did not say that they don't need to survive. I said exceptional tanking bonuses were not needed. The T2 resist profile is nails already. HICs need to stick around in a heavy firefight just as much, yet they don't get ludicrously op tanks. I would support changing the current tanking bonuses each Command ship gets for a resist bonus, the same as HICs get, on that principle, but I would not support increasingly something like local tank boosts of 10%/level. Those sorts of bonuses would be too easy to exploit in solo or small gang work as well as in PvE. As an example; how nails is a Sleipnir already as a solo boat? Do you think it needs an additional buff to tanking? The rebalance is also supposed to remove the split between field and fleet ships. The key difference will be their weapons. And your right, the weapon choice makes little difference whne most of your high slots are links and your in a decent sized fleet. But they do make a difference when.you use the ship for fighting, which is its secondary use. I said its primary role is boosting, I never said it was its sole role. But as it specialises in that role, I don't see why it should also gain bonuses to a secondary role while the principle of T2 is to specialise in a single role. The forthcoming template will have boosting bonuses, tanking bonuses (that are comparable to their T1 counterparts,) and double damage/weapon bonuses. I really don't see a need for even higher tanking bonuses on top of the T2 resist profile.
BC are also made for fleet bonuses, but you do not even see CCP even blink about that when balancing the ships.
Also when you say resistances.. you thinking on the field or the fleet ones? They have different resist bonuses. If both are set as the current higher ones that I would agree with you, but I feel it will be the opposite. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
463
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 11:35:00 -
[140] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL: Caldari Frigate bonuses: +10% to light missile and rocket damage +10% to missile velocity Role Bonus: +50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%. The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out.
Yeah, I forgot how to math.
Hannott Thanos wrote:CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL: Caldari Frigate bonuses: +10% to light missile and rocket damage +10% to missile velocity Role Bonus: +33% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage
actually 33,3 repeating |
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unbless83
Trojan Trolls Scrap Iron Flotilla.
24
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 12:56:00 -
[141] - Quote
looking forward to runnin a few tests around an arty firetail, my old one used to volley about 1 to 1.5k dmg with a dedicated alpha fit...
hoping for consistant over 1k alpha blap :D Aussies are the unicorns of eve... rare and horny |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
397
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 13:03:00 -
[142] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL: Caldari Frigate bonuses: +10% to light missile and rocket damage +10% to missile velocity Role Bonus: +50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%. The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out. Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets.
The applied DPS is similar.
Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Kagura Nikon
Emptiness.
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 14:33:00 -
[143] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Grunnax Aurelius wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL: Caldari Frigate bonuses: +10% to light missile and rocket damage +10% to missile velocity Role Bonus: +50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%. The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out. Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets. The applied DPS is similar. Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers?
well there is ONE, but it is not exactly under the scrutiny of "game balance" :P |
Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
163
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 16:55:00 -
[144] - Quote
pyronatic wrote:As a Gallente Militia Pilot, There's 2 Stats I think that should be changed or looked at again. These Changes are based off by comparing the Tristan to the Comet, Since the Tristan is the tech 1 Variant of the Comet. The targeting range, The Tristan has a base range of 40 km and the Comet has 37.5 km, So for a kiting purpose with drones a Tristan beats the Comet. I think the comet should have at least an equal base range. The second is the drone capacity the Tristan gets a 40 m3 drone bay and the Comet has a 30 m3 drone bay, also the Tristan can launch 5 drones compared to the Comets 3 so its much easier for the Tristan to eliminate the Comet's drones from the fight. I think by giving the Comet 2 more light drones in it's drone bay would make the Comet more appealing to fly than a Tristan. These are just my thought's on the Comet.
"Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30"
"Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km (+5) / 650 (+30) / 5 (+1)"
I would have to say that that is working as intended. The Comet gets 2 double damage bonused guns. The Tristan gets 2 guns. Seems fair to me that the Tristan does a bit more drone DPS, but suffers in gun DPS...
To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.
Kagura Nikon wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets.
The applied DPS is similar.
Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers?
well there is ONE, but it is not exactly under the scrutiny of "game balance" :P Riot pls
More Raven State Issues. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1132
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:36:00 -
[145] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote: To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.
The comet is an awesomely fun ship to fly and is a near perfect synthesis of all the Gallente frigates. Part taranis, part enyo, with a little ishkur and ares thrown in too.
Be careful about asking for more drones. They'll nerf the hell out of ship stats because that's what CCP does to drone boats. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
649
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Goldensaver wrote: To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.
The comet is an awesomely fun ship to fly and is a near perfect synthesis of all the Gallente frigates. Part taranis, part enyo, with a little ishkur and ares thrown in too. Be careful about asking for more drones. They'll nerf the hell out of ship stats because that's what CCP does to drone boats. It might be just me but I would be willing to give up the utility high for and extra 10mbps and 10m3 drone bay. Would need to lose a little CPU and a tiny amount of grid. But leave the drones in bonused. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1132
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:52:00 -
[147] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: It might be just me but I would be willing to give up the utility high for and extra 10mbps and 10m3 drone bay. Would need to lose a little CPU and a tiny amount of grid. But leave the drones in bonused.
The utility high slot does nothing w.r.t increasing potential dps, so while you and I might love that tradeoff I don't think CCP would. They'd have to nerf something else as well. |
Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
163
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:52:00 -
[148] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Goldensaver wrote: To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.
The comet is an awesomely fun ship to fly and is a near perfect synthesis of all the Gallente frigates. Part taranis, part enyo, with a little ishkur and ares thrown in too. Be careful about asking for more drones. They'll nerf the hell out of ship stats because that's what CCP does to drone boats.
That's an interesting way of looking at it, but I think I'd have to agree with you. It really is a great ship that pulls off "Gallente", as opposed to one single aspect of it. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
397
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 19:17:00 -
[149] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Grunnax Aurelius wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL: Caldari Frigate bonuses: +10% to light missile and rocket damage +10% to missile velocity Role Bonus: +50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%. The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out. Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets. The applied DPS is similar. Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers? well there is ONE, but it is not exactly under the scrutiny of "game balance" :P If your referring to the State Issue Raven, I am of the understanding that the last one blew up.
I may be wrong. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
650
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 20:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: It might be just me but I would be willing to give up the utility high for and extra 10mbps and 10m3 drone bay. Would need to lose a little CPU and a tiny amount of grid. But leave the drones in bonused.
The utility high slot does nothing w.r.t increasing potential dps, so while you and I might love that tradeoff I don't think CCP would. They'd have to nerf something else as well. That is true, but on the other hand it would be like the thorax of frigates, pure gank. To keep it in that category they could reduce the drone bay by 5 m3 and then remove utility high and up bandwidth by 10mbps. But that would make it too good in some cases. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
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