Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4361
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:a serious concern here in the US.
With CAS/Six Strikes rolled out, and obviously already claiming false positives on LEGAL files, how can i possibly be affected with EVE Online files essentially "Copyrighted material". I don't really want to start a political debate here, but politics in the US are veering towards the technophobe stage, if it hasn't already, and it is affecting P2P network traffic among other things. Well you can make an appeal at the cost of $35 and state that the copyright owner gave you permission to distribute the material (and if CCP's legal team is at all present and competent they will have such clauses up). If your appeal is successful you get your $35 back and whatever sanctions you had will be lifted.
Of course this is all at the mercy of THEIR chosen arbitrator and you don't get a second appeal... Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Sturmwolke
382
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
You know ...... I fell down laughing. The EVE community has been berating CCP for YEARS on this, and you've finally seen the light. Now back then, who was the wiseguy that went the other way?
|
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
842
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
my router crashes if I have more than 10-12 active connections, so I hope we will be able to limit the connection count or force HTTP (as other games allow the user to do). TEST alt - don't trust. |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
815
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:my router crashes if I have more than 10-12 active connections, so I hope we will be able to limit the connection count or force HTTP (as other games allow the user to do).
You really need a new router. Only 12 connections is ridiculous. |
Beness
Nictus X Initiative Mercenaries
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:a serious concern here in the US.
With CAS/Six Strikes rolled out, and obviously already claiming false positives on LEGAL files, how can i possibly be affected with EVE Online files essentially "Copyrighted material". I don't really want to start a political debate here, but politics in the US are veering towards the technophobe stage, if it hasn't already, and it is affecting P2P network traffic among other things.
CAS/Six Strikes works as follows:
- Monitoring company joins public swarm
- Monitoring company determines which IPs are uploading files which match the hash of copyright files
- Monitoring company contacts ISP and informs which IPs are sharing copyright files.
Since the launcher is going to be running on an effectively private swarm, the monitoring company won't join it. CCP can implement checks to make sure that only launchers are talking on the swarm, technically.
This also addresses an earlier poster, who was concerned about malicious files being shared. Since CCP is the only one putting files into the swarm, malicious files could only be injected if CCP were compromised. This is the same situation we're in right now - if someone attacks CCP and puts bad files on the patch server, your launcher will download them.
Actually, the use of BitTorrent (and its hash-checking) means that even if CCP is compromised, your launcher may notice that the files "look" wrong and prevent their execution - the same mechanism in BitTorrent that protects against file corruption also prevents the wrong file from being used. |
SamuraiJack
Sacred Templars Unclaimed.
38
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:13:00 -
[66] - Quote
Then start voting out your politicians that are in the media mafia's pay. SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1063
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
If you get any feedback saying that the launcher 'improvements' on not working properly, please pay attention.
My only complaint against CCP is that they tend to ignore player feedback and release things despite players pointing out obvious problems with the latest whizz bang idea.
The new inventory system and the half-baked mission drone AI are good examples of the, 'must release stuff to meet some self imposed target date rather than when it is ready' This is not a signature. |
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 20:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
I understand why CCP is doing this, what I don't get is why. Specially right now . |
Kiran
Knights of Azrael The Azrael Alliance
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 20:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
Not had a lot to do with Bit Torrents, but if we are sharing information with other Eve users wont this open our PC's up to viruses that can be installed within the Eve file system ?
So you therefore share a virus over the net to all other Eve users through the patching ? |
admiral root
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
485
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 21:10:00 -
[70] - Quote
Any chance of having the launcher live in the system tray, like steam? No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Vote 315 for CSM 8 |
|
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc Zero Hour Alliance
183
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 21:40:00 -
[71] - Quote
My launcher still shows the Incarna splash-screen, just sayin'.
|
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
185
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 21:48:00 -
[72] - Quote
There should be an option to not use bittorrent, at all. A lot of universities will outright insta-block your connection for using any p2p technologies.
I'm not talking about simply blocking the p2p connection. I'm talking about blocking the user from accessing their network at all. Happened to me when I tried to play some koren MMO...they just assume you've made a trip to the pirate bay and cut you off. thhief ghabmoef |
|
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1870
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 22:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
Team Special Circumstances eh ? Culture reference I hope! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
45thtiger 0109
SYNDROME OF A DOWN Eternal Evocations
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 22:31:00 -
[74] - Quote
Hey CCP
Great job finding that a bittorrent system to download the expansion & patch.
WoT MMO uses The Bittorrent system and it works very well.
I do not get any error or problems with Bittorrent system at all when I use the WoT launcher.
|
Dances With Valkyries
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 22:52:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kiran wrote:Not had a lot to do with Bit Torrents, but if we are sharing information with other Eve users wont this open our PC's up to viruses that can be installed within the Eve file system ?
So you therefore share a virus over the net to all other Eve users through the patching ? I've not had much experience with BitTorrents either so I'm also interested in what checks will there be to prevent uploading modified code from other Eve users?
And don't we need to open ports in our firewalls to allow the upload? What happens if I don't do this?
|
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
150
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 23:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
Can you elaborate on Quote:and support for multi-box and test-client installations.
Its not exactly a secret that many people multibox in EVE. Features such as a shared wallet between accounts, switching character without having to log in again etc would be awesome.
Having a 'master' EvE account that you can then link 'sub-accounts' to would be a massive awesome feature. Imagine if this account could have 1 API for all your needs.
Some way to automatically install the various test servers would for sure increase participation on the test-realms. |
Cheng0001
Gladius Veritatis Fidelas Constans
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 23:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
THIS IS IRRELEVANT T3 BATTLESHIPS GIVE US T3 BATTLESHIPS GIVE US T3 BATTLESHIPS! EXTERMINATE! |
Cpt Underpants
Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 00:09:00 -
[78] - Quote
Phext wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:As far as I'm aware, if P2P traffic is encrypted, ISP's can't read it as P2P traffic and cannot throttle it. If you use data encryption, it should work fine. ISPs may throttle well known BT port ranges (TCP 6881-6889 is used for transport). They don't necessarily need to look into the traffic. One may bypass this throttling by using different port ranges. Not easy to bypass, the way a lot of the filtering boxes work is they look at the SSL certificate used to encrypt the data. Certain data patterns are flagged as potentially P2P, it is analysed centrally and if found to be P2P the certificate itself is then used to confirm P2P and implement throttling. Next comes the issue of carrier-grade NAT which can further limit the ability to use P2P.
Also in Australia most ISPs count both uploads and downloads against our data caps. We pay for Eve Online, why should we pay more by potentially doubling the amount of data used for each update? A lot of countries have data caps, a lot of internet providers have detection for P2P to throttle or block.
Next we have the potential issues with the new USA "six-strikes" P2P policies and the equivilents in other countries. There is talk it detects all P2P traffic, not just illicit ones. Even with white-listing certain things, many people may receive warnings before the Eve launcher is exempted.
Will P2P cost CCP less than a network of content nodes? I think it will. As long as the number of CDNs is adequate and I can turn off torrenting before anything starts, I'll be happy. Lurk more - http://i39.tinypic.com/2nktoiq.gif |
DeltaPhalanx
Hordes Of Belial
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 00:13:00 -
[79] - Quote
Dear Launcher Team;
While I certainly support updating the launcher to use a reliable delivery method, and recognise that you will still partially support http downloads, I do not see you commenting on various other users concerns reguarding how many ISP's currently penalise peer-to-peer based traffic.
From first hand experience with my own provider, I have watched my internet connection's performance degrade severely when utilising p2p based systems to perfectly legal content delivery systems (other online games which use p2p patch delivery), and as soon as that download completes or is ended prematurely, the network returns to normal.
Will it be possible to have this updated launcher use a purely http based download, with some kind of hash/checksum verification and fully disable the torrent to avoid provider penalties? |
Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 00:42:00 -
[80] - Quote
You do know many ISPs and networks block bittorrent - right? And corruption can occur when court ordered internet wire tapping of bittorrent is done at routers.
Also bittorrent is not particularly good at the initial mass release of large files. Until a critical mass of complete files are online as seeders -- bittorent tends to stall for lots of people as the network gets obsessed with giving everyone the first MOST available part of the file. Until a fair fraction of people have the parts you are missing you can end up just sitting in a bittorrent traffic jam. You idea of having people with complete downloads signed off of bittorrent will make this much much worse. If mapping to nearest-least busy regional server cache of client, bittorrent may or not have good available.
So I recommend you do not make BitTorrent the only launcher download protocol.
So why not design the main body of the launcher to be as protocol independent as possible? Include a toolbox of protocols. Sure launcher may have to skip/substitute some techniques as protocol features vary.
Default to bittorrent. But maybe include alternates like HTTP 1.1 as fall back solutions. Even let user select which one to use. Maybe even have bittorrent status checks on seeder/leecher ratios and availability before selecting bittorrent as default.
As one alternative protocol look at low overhead tunneling to regional distribution points that may allow you to use wrapped protocols of your choice (keep routers from stripping those pesky HTTPS range headers). After all you don't really care about encryption security, so you could probably custom code to fake the hardware/CPU intense encryption and just say its encrypted before encapsulation. Have to get regional distribution servers loaded to support that of course. |
|
Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 00:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
PS in general I think use of bittorrent is a giant step forward. Just needs a safety net for first hour of release and for when its not working at all for particular networks/users.
Plus if you design launcher with eye to the future, you realize bittorrent may not always be king of file distribution. |
Laconis Dax
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 01:34:00 -
[82] - Quote
Sounds like a good idea, CCP, as long as the launcher will by default stop seeding after the download is complete. But it would be an even BETTER idea if we could get some granular control over our seeding options: A "Stop seeding at ratio ___" option would be phenomenal, as would as a way to specify the upload speed cap. And if you really wanted to keep us techheads happy, give us "Seed for at most / at least ___ hours" options... |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
420
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 01:52:00 -
[83] - Quote
Surprised how self-critical you are of the launcher, after the botched first release I really liked it, never had a failed patch since und patching runs much smoother. Guess I was lucky with my stable connection.
Torrent, well why not. Although I somehow suspect that saving bandwidth may be a factor for CCP here ^^ . |
Juniorama
State War Academy Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 01:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:This is also one of the reasons why we want to bring it to a test server near you soon, so that we can gain more experience with how the mechanism would perform for people behind restrictive firewalls / ISPs.
Can't wait to give this a go, as I spend a lot of time in China on business. The Great Firewall being great can make patch days a real chore. If my client corrupts I can just about forget it.
In other news, a gaming content provider that rhymes with s team is an excellent platform for downloading games behind said greatness. |
Tiflane
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 02:19:00 -
[85] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:my router crashes if I have more than 10-12 active connections, so I hope we will be able to limit the connection count or force HTTP (as other games allow the user to do). You really need a new router. Only 12 connections is ridiculous.
Except that's not always a choice, as in my case where it's actually built into the LoS dish before going into the house and the main household router (which obviously does not have such issues.)
So yeah, lots of connections and lots of upstream crashes out my internet connection, so torrents are a no-go. So long as that part of it can be disabled, I'll be happy with the plain old style transfer.
|
Ryans Revenge
Last Huzzah
56
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 03:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
The problem with this is that a lot of UK isp's lower your internet speed if you download over a certain amount over torrents.
So my 120meg net will be dropped to 20meg if your patch is bigger than 1gig or something. Really ******* sucks that your going to ****** torrents that isp's don't like and flag as illegal downloads... Sigh |
Verite Rendition
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
128
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 04:44:00 -
[87] - Quote
I apologize if this has already been posted, but I had a thought.
CCP will be in control of everything, including the tracker, right? So why don't you modify your tracker to scrub all the clients from the peer list, leaving only the CCP CDNs?
This means no two clients would be able to connect to each other, and consequently clients could only connect to the CCP BitTorrent seeds and the web seeds. The significance of this being that it does a complete runaround on any concerns about P2P transfers; no customer's upload bandwidth would be getting used to distribute the game, which is what makes people so antsy. This lets you use the BitTorrent protocol to distribute files, but still in a client-server topography rather than P2P.
On a side note, I can see why you want to do this. I've put together torrents in the past for the Mac users, using the CCP CDNs as webseeds, as for some reason Mac users are prone to having the DMG get corrupt in transport. It worked well for the few users that were having problems. Though that was using solely web seeds without any use of the BitTorrent protocol (and P2P transfers) itself. So I'm surprised to hear you guys are having problems with HTTP range download requests, as I've always found those to be very reliable. But I guess this game serves some pretty odd clients in some pretty far-off locations...
All of this will definitely require some testing. I'm sure the web seed component will work fine for anyone who can easily download the client today, but the BitTorrent protocol does raise the ire of some ISPs (particularly those that are heavily oversubscribed). I'd almost think you want to use it as a fallback protocol, for whenever HTTP range downloads aren't working. Otherwise HTTP is for lack of a better word "friendlier" and less likely to raise a flag with crotchety ISPs. It would also help in that case to greatly limit the number of connections; there shouldn't be any need to run more than a few connections at once if P2P transfers are disabled. This again makes ISPs happier, plus it's nicer on old routers that hurl if faced with too many connections. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Fade 2 Black
379
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 05:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
Verry much apreciated!
After this UNIFY ACOUNTS and REVAMP POS!!!! Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
Mr Garo
Fistful of Finns Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
8
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 06:45:00 -
[89] - Quote
I'm all in for using bittorrent for getting patches.
We recently had a problem where Steam released a big amount of patches just as we started a lan party of 1000 people. The amount of Steam patches flooded our 1Gbps internet connection for an entire day! If Steam would have been using Bittorrent to distribute the patch files there wouldn't be any problems.
- Mr Garo |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
671
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 08:23:00 -
[90] - Quote
I honestly have no idea what kind of problems that change will fix but I never had any problems with patches in the first place. I have good intertubez connection and never waited more than few minutes for download and installation of new patch/expansion. Perfect when you just got back from work and need to put your dinner to the oven and prepare some salad while Eve is updating itself.
But obviously metrics show something disturbing enough to be worth fixing because metrics are never wrong. Funny they don't show how much of needless hassle is switching between toons on same account, maybe then launcher would gain magic powers to handle that too. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |