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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
514
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:14:00 -
[241] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Simple answer: because there is more than one problem with eve atm. Yeah SOV mechanics are bad but highsec also needs a nerf.
Why do you want CCP to go bankrupt?
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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
604
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:21:00 -
[242] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Simple answer: because there is more than one problem with eve atm. Yeah SOV mechanics are bad but highsec also needs a nerf. Why do you want CCP to go bankrupt?
"A nerf" is a far cry from "nerfed into the ground."
Why should people be able to anchor POs in HS for pennies in NPC controlled safety? Why should folks be able to get perfect refines and great manufacturing in the same station for super cheap, while player controlled space (the big draw of the game) gets the shaft? Don't worry about posting with your main! -įPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
246
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:33:00 -
[243] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:When I see rants like the OP, it makes me wonder what he would prefer?
Weeks of grinding complexes, only to have everything you do to gain sov, undone as soon as you go to bed?
Having to play a different game to take sov?
Some kind of PVP scorecard, that can be easily manipulated by blowing up my own alts?
I think people have different visions of what sov should be for.
It seems from his gf comment, he thinks sov mechanics should encourage lots of small gang, fairly balanced, where skill of the player wins, fights.
He rants that sov is about capturing valuable stuff and then protecting it. Well to others, EVE is not about small gang, fairly balanced, where skill wins the fight, ship to ship PVP. For some of these people, EVE is about gathering as many friends as possible, into a big, powerful blob, with massive advantage, and crushing your enemy, to capture and hold valuable resources.
What you want from EVE is not what everyone wants from EVE. Perhaps, rather than lamenting that null sov warefare is not what you wish it were, perhaps you should go look for what you are looking for, in another area of EVE.
And finally, if null could not be made fairly safe and profitably so, then null would be just like low sec... mostly empty with the occasional pirate camp or random roam. Most of the small % of the player base that does live in null, is only there because it can be safe to be there.
You completely missed the point because you failed to see the context in which this was written as well as what it was supposed to foil.
Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement *President* Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. A modern girl for a modern world. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
514
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:35:00 -
[244] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Simple answer: because there is more than one problem with eve atm. Yeah SOV mechanics are bad but highsec also needs a nerf. Why do you want CCP to go bankrupt? "A nerf" is a far cry from "nerfed into the ground." Why should people be able to anchor POs in HS for pennies in NPC controlled safety? Why should folks be able to get perfect refines and great manufacturing in the same station for super cheap, while player controlled space (the big draw of the game) gets the shaft?
1) Because they spent a ton of effort grinding standings to be able to place that POS. AND, the cost of running a POS is more in high sec than in 0.0.
2) a nerf of high sec refine.. say 25% or less, would probably be acceptable. The rest of your post is about buff to null (better refine and more slots), so call it that. A better buff to null would be to greatly increase the amount of trit and mex that you get from high end rocks to end that mega bottleneck to null production.
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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
604
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:39:00 -
[245] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Simple answer: because there is more than one problem with eve atm. Yeah SOV mechanics are bad but highsec also needs a nerf. Why do you want CCP to go bankrupt? "A nerf" is a far cry from "nerfed into the ground." Why should people be able to anchor POs in HS for pennies in NPC controlled safety? Why should folks be able to get perfect refines and great manufacturing in the same station for super cheap, while player controlled space (the big draw of the game) gets the shaft? 1) Because they spent a ton of effort grinding standings to be able to place that POS. AND, the cost of running a POS is more in high sec than in 0.0. 2) a nerf of high sec refine.. say 25% or less, would probably be acceptable. The rest of your post is about buff to null (better refine and more slots), so call it that. A better buff to null would be to greatly increase the amount of trit and mex that you get from high end rocks to end that mega bottleneck to null production.
How is hiring a dude with the right standings to drop a POS considered "a ton of effort". The tax for a high sec POS is a starbase charter that costs as much as an L3 mission. Don't worry about posting with your main! -įPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
514
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:39:00 -
[246] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:You completely missed the point because you failed to see the context in which this was written as well as what it was supposed to foil.
Then enlighten, because all this high sec carebear saw in the OP was:
Whhaaa no good fights.
Whaaaa blobs.
Whaaaaa blue donut.
Whaaaaa null bears too safe.
Whaaaaaaa forum PvP. |
Cazador 64
Nightmare Logistics
140
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:41:00 -
[247] - Quote
Andski wrote:you're still wrong and you haven't "stirred" any snakes, we just smelled the blood in the water
please continue being wrong because your cashout potential from this game is being threatened I do not play eve enough to even care about this, but this should follow up with a you're still wrong because (insert Logical argument here) and you haven't stirred and snakes because(Insert other argument), we just smelled the blood in the water.
I am not picking sides here(again because i do not care) but you simply posting no your wrong only makes it look like you can not refute what the op has said. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
514
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:47:00 -
[248] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote: How is hiring a dude with the right standings to drop a POS considered "a ton of effort". The tax for a high sec POS is a starbase charter that costs as much as an L3 mission.
That "dude" did a lot of work to grind standings, then you have to reform the corp around a new corp he creates, or kick everyone for a few days. Or are you just ranting that players have discovered a mechanic that reduces the number of players that have to do the grind?
And, then, when they decide they want to relocate, or put down another POS or... well, they have to do it all again.
So, you are admitting that high sec POSes cost more than anywhere else? Because the first time you mentioned it... "Why should people be able to anchor POs in HS for pennies in NPC controlled safety?" it seemed you were implying that high sec POSes were cheaper than other locations.
And, do not forget about the 25% fuel discount you get on POS if you hold sov in a system. |
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
246
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:47:00 -
[249] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Sariah Kion wrote:You completely missed the point because you failed to see the context in which this was written as well as what it was supposed to foil.
Then enlighten, because all this high sec carebear saw in the OP was: Whhaaa no good fights. Whaaaa blobs. Whaaaaa blue donut. Whaaaaa null bears too safe. Whaaaaaaa forum PvP.
I don't care about any of those issues honestly and I am surely not "crying" over them.
The point is that before null sec SOV dwellers push for nerfs to high sec in the name of "saving the sandbox and to promote good pvp" they need to address the real issues that have caused sov null to become the lifeless hulk it has become.
Not sure if you have been under a rock or willfully chose to ignore the flood of SOV alliance dwellers pushing for the outright destruction of high sec as we know it because they think, or are willfully trying to spin the issues because they want to hold onto their risk free isk spigots and push even more isk and power out of high sec and into their hands, that high sec in its current state is the cause of all that ails pvp in null sec.
Either way, you missed the point completely and thats ok. No worries. Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement *President* Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. A modern girl for a modern world. |
Cazador 64
Nightmare Logistics
140
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:48:00 -
[250] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Malcanis wrote:(good stuff) Nerf hisec ores (Veld, Scord, Omber, etc). Simplest way is a -10% and -5% variant (it still doesn't come close to fixing the problem ... but it's a start). With this, instead of getting "Veldspar", "Condensed Veldspar", or "Dense Veldspar" in a 0.5 system, you'll be getting mostly "Scattered Veldspar" (-10%) and "Sparse Veldspar" (-5%) with a few rocks of "Veldspar" here and there. Scarcity of "Veldspar" would be on par with how "Dense Veldspar" curently is (IIRC, it doesn't start showing up until 0.8, and you're lucky to find it there). Once you hit lowsec, repeat with the current progression from 0.8-0.5 0.4 -- Mostly Veld, some conc, little dense (don't even bother with the hisec ores) 0.1 -- pretty much looks like a 0.5 belt does (about equal amounts of veld/conc veld, with a good amount of dense) Do this for all hisec ores. Lowsec ores don't change much ... maybe tweak the numbers a bit on their yields. Nullsec ores don't change much ... maybe tweak the numbers on the more useless yields. we "might" need more lowsec, as there may not be enough 0.2/0.1 systems to make this work right. To counter the whining before it's posted: But now I have to go to lowsec to mine what I used to be able to mine here!!! -- yes, and? But now mining in hisec sucks!!! -- little risk, little reward. But now CONCORD won't kill those nasty gankers! -- fleet up, make your own police force -- hell, maybe you can kill the guy BEFORE he kills the miner(s). But now everything's gonna be more expensive!!! -- HTFU Think of the newbies! -- they can tackle, right? Seriously though, this isn't going to be game-breaking for them too much, yeah expensive things will hurt them for a while ... but missions and everything else pay out fairly well.
no |
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EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
592
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:50:00 -
[251] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:
2) a nerf of high sec refine.. say 25% or less, would probably be acceptable.
So you agree that highsec can be nerfed fairly without destroying the game.
Welcome aboard! |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
514
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:54:00 -
[252] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:
Not sure if you have been under a rock or willfully chose to ignore the flood of SOV alliance dwellers pushing for the outright destruction of high sec as we know it because they think, or are continuously trying to spin the issues because they want to hold onto their risk free isk spigots and push even more isk and power out of high sec and into their hands, that high sec in its current state is the cause of all that ails pvp in null sec.
Either way, you missed the point completely and thats ok. No worries.
Perhaps you should have, oh, I don't know... mentioned some of this in the OP.
Yes, I've seen all the calls for "nerf high sec", and been a pretty vocal opponent of that effort. Why? Because I don't see it achieving anything other than a drastic reduction in the number of subscriptions, and a rapid reversal by CCP to stop the crashing revenue. More importantly, I think CCP realizes what a HUGE percentage of the player base are high sec carebears, and this is why all these rants to nerf high sec will continue to go largely ignored by CCP.
So, if you have a point to make, perhaps you could simply try to make the point, instead of ranting back at the ranters... because I sure didn't see any logical cogent argument or other real point to your OP. |
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
246
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:59:00 -
[253] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Sariah Kion wrote:
Not sure if you have been under a rock or willfully chose to ignore the flood of SOV alliance dwellers pushing for the outright destruction of high sec as we know it because they think, or are continuously trying to spin the issues because they want to hold onto their risk free isk spigots and push even more isk and power out of high sec and into their hands, that high sec in its current state is the cause of all that ails pvp in null sec.
Either way, you missed the point completely and thats ok. No worries.
Perhaps you should have, oh, I don't know... mentioned some of this in the OP. Yes, I've seen all the calls for "nerf high sec", and been a pretty vocal opponent of that effort. Why? Because I don't see it achieving anything other than a drastic reduction in the number of subscriptions, and a rapid reversal by CCP to stop the crashing revenue. More importantly, I think CCP realizes what a HUGE percentage of the player base are high sec carebears, and this is why all these rants to nerf high sec will continue to go largely ignored by CCP. So, if you have a point to make, perhaps you could simply try to make the point, instead of ranting back at the ranters... because I sure didn't see any logical cogent argument or other real point to your OP.
Amazing.
Have a nice day.
Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement *President* Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. A modern girl for a modern world. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
515
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 20:07:00 -
[254] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:
2) a nerf of high sec refine.. say 25% or less, would probably be acceptable.
So you agree that highsec can be nerfed fairly without destroying the game. Welcome aboard!
Nerf is such an ambiguous term, isn't it.
11% tax for being in NPC corp is not the same scale of nerf as.. say... moving all L4s to low sec.
I've seen the "nerf high sec" be framed as "stop letting people avoid war by being in NPC corp". That is a definition of nerf high sec that I'd be 100% against since I see it leading to massive griefing, carebears being unable to fund their accounts on PLEX, and massive unsubs.
I've seen it framed as "make it possible to avoid CONCORD" or heck, even "get rid of CONCORD". That is a lot different than, say, a 25% minimum loss on high sec refine.
AND, what would the result of a 25% loss on high sec refine, without a buff to null trit and mex (current bottlenecks to null production of capital ships that consume mass amounts of minerals)? Well, then trit and mex prices would increase, bringing the profitability of high sec mining right back to the pre-nerf levels.
Also, initially, missioning would return to being more profitable than mining. So, I'd park the hulks and jump back into the machs. As miners switched to missioning, mineral production would drop until the price increased to bring the miners back.
On the other hand, a buff to the trit and mex from null would actually be a nerf to high sec mining as the price of those high sec rocks drops without the demand that is generated from null.
SO, while I contend some additional, fairly minor nerfs that may effect profitability short-term, to high sec will not cause mass numbers of carebears to drop, I still contend that a major nerf to game mechanics that make high sec safe, will do just that.
AND, I remain convinced that buffing null IS a nerf to high, and a better way to go about achieving that nerf. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3557
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 20:09:00 -
[255] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:2) a nerf of high sec refine.. say 25% or less, would probably be acceptable. So you agree that highsec can be nerfed fairly without destroying the game. Welcome aboard! Are you kidding me, all the unsubs from that would ... I am a nullsec zealot. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
604
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 20:12:00 -
[256] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:I've seen it framed as "make it possible to avoid CONCORD" or heck, even "get rid of CONCORD". That is a lot different than, say, a 25% minimum loss on high sec refine.
This is the equivalent of Fox News' "Some people say" trope. This tactic is used so that people can show the illusion of a widely held opinion without having to provide a source. It's lazy. Try again, Tarawa. Don't worry about posting with your main! -įPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Sentamon
751
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:16:00 -
[257] - Quote
When you recruit practically everyone in nullsec, to deliberately create a situation where there is nothing to do but shoot structures, you lose the right to call for nerfs in other areas.
As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Have fun trying to keep your F1 lemmings entertained. ~ Professional Forum Alt -į~ |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
515
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:24:00 -
[258] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:EI Digin wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:2) a nerf of high sec refine.. say 25% or less, would probably be acceptable. So you agree that highsec can be nerfed fairly without destroying the game. Welcome aboard! Are you kidding me, all the unsubs from that would ...
Immediately follow a 25% price increase in high sec ores like trit and mex?
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1319
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:26:00 -
[259] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:I've seen it framed as "make it possible to avoid CONCORD" or heck, even "get rid of CONCORD". That is a lot different than, say, a 25% minimum loss on high sec refine. This is the equivalent of Fox News' "Some people say" trope. This tactic is used so that people can show the illusion of a widely held opinion without having to provide a source. It's lazy. Try again, Tarawa. Get rid of CONCORD. I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
29
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:28:00 -
[260] - Quote
OP wrote:Nullbears do not complain about sov mechanics
5/10 because you have 5 pages of replies. Some first-hand PI tips |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
515
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:29:00 -
[261] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:I've seen it framed as "make it possible to avoid CONCORD" or heck, even "get rid of CONCORD". That is a lot different than, say, a 25% minimum loss on high sec refine. This is the equivalent of Fox News' "Some people say" trope. This tactic is used so that people can show the illusion of a widely held opinion without having to provide a source. It's lazy. Try again, Tarawa.
What?
I was simply pointing out that there are many proposed changes that would be called "nerf" but are not the same thing. One word with many meanings... That is the definition of ambiguous. (which many people confuse with vague, but they are not synonymous.)
Are you saying that there are not people, in various threads, calling for major game mechanic changes, and labeling it as "nerf high sec"? Because, if you really want, I'm sure I can find dozens pretty quickly. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
604
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:30:00 -
[262] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:When you recruit practically everyone in nullsec, to deliberately create a situation where there is nothing to do but shoot structures, you lose the right to call for nerfs in other areas.
As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Have fun trying to keep your F1 lemmings entertained.
So basically what you are saying is that the people who generate the most press and word of mouth for this game should never, ever have a say in how to better the game. Gotcha.
I keep seeing these arguments in my forays into extremism in my country. Don't worry about posting with your main! -įPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Jireel
I ain't got me ground legs yet
0
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:32:00 -
[263] - Quote
Just wanting to point out that being bored with highsec and having no interest in nullsec, there is still the third option avaliable, that is to say hello to sleepers. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
515
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 20:33:00 -
[264] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Sentamon wrote:When you recruit practically everyone in nullsec, to deliberately create a situation where there is nothing to do but shoot structures, you lose the right to call for nerfs in other areas.
As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Have fun trying to keep your F1 lemmings entertained. So basically what you are saying is that the people who generate the most press and word of mouth for this game should never, ever have a say in how to better the game. Gotcha. I keep seeing these arguments in my forays into extremism in my country.
I think that a vocal minority of hard core players can misrepresent the opinion of the lager, more casual play style, majority.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
515
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:35:00 -
[265] - Quote
Jireel wrote:Just wanting to point out that being bored with highsec and having no interest in nullsec, there is still the third option avaliable, that is to say hello to sleepers.
Hmmm. I'd consider that a 5th option after low sec faction warfare and low sec piracy.
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Kane Alvo
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
75
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:48:00 -
[266] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Would you care to dispute Mr Stark's figures with your own? Or do you prefer to just shout loudly and hope everyone confuses noise with conviction?
You're doing a fine job at it, CSM Candidate Malcanis. I can't decide whether you're just a talking head, or if you believe that your ideas are actually feasible. In either case, you and your null bear entourage represent the biggest threat to this game as far as this voter is concerned.
Fact: Null sec is largely void of NPC control and interaction. It is supposed to be a dangerous final frontier controlled by the players who live there.
Fact: A large majority of the players (at least, according to the forums) who live in null are not happy about the current state of affairs.
Malcanis' solution = Make null more like hi-sec, then nerf hi-sec.
I have zero vested interest in what happens in null sec, therefore, it can burn to the ground for all I care. But from what I can tell, the players who live there have done a fine job of ruining it already and now want to spread their power and influence to other areas of space. Isn't life in null supposed to be difficult? Isn't cutting the cord off from NPCs supposed to be what it's all about?
It must be, because every time one of these threads is posted, the opposition turns out in force to try to convince the rest of us how bad they really have it. I look at maps and see large blocks of space owned by major alliances who must be bored to tears, because instead of running their empires, they're whining in these threads. Caldari Militia -įG’£G’ąG’P Psychotic Monk for CSM8 |
Sentamon
751
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:49:00 -
[267] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Sentamon wrote:When you recruit practically everyone in nullsec, to deliberately create a situation where there is nothing to do but shoot structures, you lose the right to call for nerfs in other areas.
As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Have fun trying to keep your F1 lemmings entertained. So basically what you are saying is that the people who generate the most press and word of mouth for this game should never, ever have a say in how to better the game. Gotcha. I keep seeing these arguments in my forays into extremism in my country.
I said you have no right to call for nerfs, not that you don't have the right to complain about what you created. You delusions of grandeur is another reason why you don't have the right to call for nerfs. ~ Professional Forum Alt -į~ |
Zarcan
The Yellow Eye
39
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:51:00 -
[268] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Sentamon wrote:When you recruit practically everyone in nullsec, to deliberately create a situation where there is nothing to do but shoot structures, you lose the right to call for nerfs in other areas.
As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Have fun trying to keep your F1 lemmings entertained. So basically what you are saying is that the people who generate the most press and word of mouth for this game should never, ever have a say in how to better the game. Gotcha. I keep seeing these arguments in my forays into extremism in my country. I think that a vocal minority of hard core players can misrepresent the opinion of the lager, more casual play style, majority.
This is the story of Eve. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1232
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 20:57:00 -
[269] - Quote
Cazador 64 wrote:Velicitia wrote:Malcanis wrote:(good stuff) (stuff) no
oh sure, but -25% to refine is OK...
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3557
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 21:04:00 -
[270] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Sentamon wrote:When you recruit practically everyone in nullsec, to deliberately create a situation where there is nothing to do but shoot structures, you lose the right to call for nerfs in other areas.
As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Have fun trying to keep your F1 lemmings entertained. So basically what you are saying is that the people who generate the most press and word of mouth for this game should never, ever have a say in how to better the game. Gotcha. I keep seeing these arguments in my forays into extremism in my country. Sometimes drastic measures are necessary to bring about drastic changes in a community. Necessary but drastic changes. I am a nullsec zealot. |
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