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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1110
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Posted - 2013.03.13 17:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.
... and Species 8472.
ISD Suvetar wrote:EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics,
Says you. Do we look like DUST bunnies?
ISD Suvetar wrote:and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.
Right., it can't be done.
(Oh and the last pic is of a ship going directly from space into planetary atmosphere. Indy game, cost less to make that what CCP spends on pizza in a year.) EvE is like prison.-á It's a place when bad people go to learn how to become even worse people. |
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2013.03.13 17:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Did you (OP) actually expect them to model real time dilation when one player moves faster than light?
Please explain to me how we would force aging on the other players each time you enter warp, in order to keep things "real".
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Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
323
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Posted - 2013.03.13 17:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
What's this relatavistic crap ? I fold space every day...and that Einstein fellow was only a clerk anyway. What do clerks know ? Twaddle, I say ! Twaddle !
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Adam Junior
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
144
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ships in EVE don't approach relativistic speeds, the fastest you can go is 10^3 m/s -ish.
The warp drive (as should really be evident from it's name) contracts space so the distance between A (your ship) and B (point ahead of your ship) much shortert, allowing you to traverse it at sublight speeds within the bubble.
Your ship never goes absolutely superluminal within the bubble, the warp drive is lets you circumvent the rules not break them. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Homowners
40
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Notorious Fellon wrote:Did you (OP) actually expect them to model real time dilation when one player moves faster than light?
No, in OP's world, nobody can travel faster than light, so that's not a concern. So it's going to take around 8-10 minutes minimum to travel one AU (a lot longer if you haven't already accelerated to as close to the speed of light as your ship allows . . . and then that much longer to slow back down to a speed that'll allow you to dock).
Time dilation as sub-light speeds would have to be modeled, however, meaning that the tradeoff for actually playing the game (flying around) is a slower training queue. |
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Adam Junior wrote:Ships in EVE don't approach relativistic speeds, the fastest you can go is 10^3 m/s -ish.
The warp drive (as should really be evident from it's name) contracts space so the distance between A (your ship) and B (point ahead of your ship) much shortert, allowing you to traverse it at sublight speeds within the bubble.
Your ship never goes absolutely superluminal within the bubble, the warp drive is lets you circumvent the rules not break them.
Excellent point. |
Pantiy
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
so if all i do is warp around i can be in a titan in a week? did i do that right? |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1877
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:EVE physics is not realistic as everybody else has already said. It's a shame the "fluid" nonsense doesn't make any sense either.
The most annoying thing to me is how wrecks stop moving when you kill something that was moving. The max range on guns is also fairly ridiculous.
No it doesn't make any sense in a scientific bent; but it *does* make EVE a fun game; which I believe is the main point ? ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1877
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars. ... and Species 8472. ISD Suvetar wrote:EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics, Says you. Do we look like DUST bunnies? ISD Suvetar wrote:and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does. Right., it can't be done. (Oh and the last pic is of a ship going directly from space into planetary atmosphere. Indy game, cost less to make that what CCP spends on pizza in a year.)
I think you're stretching my point a bit there :)
Either way it's not an argument; it's how it is currently and I'm simply giving the reasons that have been given before by CCP developers.
ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Alara IonStorm
4569
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Pantiy wrote:so if all i do is warp around i can be in a titan in a week? did i do that right? No.
You'll get to the Titan at the same amount of time, just by then Super Titan's and Ultra Titans will exist and everyone will have trained them. |
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Rico Minali
The Straw Men Dark Therapy
1261
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hint, if you dont know much physics best tto not try discussing it.
But no, eve doesnt use much in the way of physics beyond the scifi spectrum. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
323
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Let us know how you plan on simulating how a ship's mass, length, and time dilation become imaginary at speeds above c.
My pretend spaceship flies faster than your pretend spaceship because of the big orange and red "go faster" flames painted on the hull ?
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
345
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Posted - 2013.03.13 19:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Let us know how you plan on simulating how a ship's mass, length, and time dilation become imaginary at speeds above c. My pretend spaceship flies faster than your pretend spaceship because of the big orange and red "go faster" flames painted on the hull ?
Flames are a myth. What you really need are red stripes. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1154
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Posted - 2013.03.13 19:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Pantiy wrote:so if all i do is warp around i can be in a titan in a week? did i do that right?
You have it exactly backwards.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3731
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Posted - 2013.03.13 19:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).
Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent... Troll aside, warp bubbles aren't affected by standard physics in the way you are thinking... just ask NASA (as they are currently working on creating their own). Warp bubbles solve a lot of very inconvienient problems with the passage of time near light speed, as well as accelleration and decelleration. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
435
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Posted - 2013.03.13 19:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
LOL56 wrote:Warp drives don't cause you to get anywhere near the local light speed, they create a field (of totally BS space magic) that decreases the mass of the surrounding space (a 'depleted vacuum') resulting in a large negative density for the region around the ship (the 'warp tunnel'), thus raising light speed and allowing speeds of multiple AU/s without even approaching the local light speed.
The downside to to these drives is that when in standby mode (they cannot be turned off safely) the create a force akin to friction that drags the ship into a zero velocity relative to the local gravity well (usually the local star) how are YOU to decide what is "BS space magic"? do you know how all physics work beyond what we consider the theoretical laws? no?
then quit bashing on my immersion since you cant prove 100% it could never happen in real life with comparable technology.
yes i mad for no reason. |
Kane Alvo
SQUIDS.
80
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Posted - 2013.03.13 19:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
All this science talk make Hulk head hurt. Caldari Militia -áGÿ£GÿàGÿP Psychotic Monk for CSM8 |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial The STAR Alliance
1556
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
i guess it's too far a stretch to assume this is a space game set way in the future and perhaps technologies have been invented to casually deal with or circumvent these annoying and inconvenient "laws of physics." |
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
4972
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).
Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...
If you want reality.... then the first time you die quit the game... respawning isn't reality... or didn't you hear? *GLOMP* with your AltGäó-á |
GreenSeed
242
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
you are asking for realism on a game where you can viciously murder someone with no provocation, get killed by the cops and do it all over again in 15 minutes, on the same spot, sometimes with the very same cops that responded to your first crime still standing there.
or how about the fact that if we add up the mass of all the items contained within jita 4-4, and expect realism, the station should collapse on itself and become a black hole?
maybe even more hilarious is the fact that an object of a couple hounded million tonnes can accelerate to speeds of upwards to 200m/s , collide with another object of the same characteristics, same speed but opposing vector and not having it all end in a 200 megaton explosion. |
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Thomas Hurt
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
105
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:you are asking for realism on a game where you can viciously murder someone with no provocation, get killed by the cops and do it all over again in 15 minutes, on the same spot, sometimes with the very same cops that responded to your first crime still standing there.
or how about the fact that if we add up the mass of all the items contained within jita 4-4, and expect realism, the station should collapse on itself and become a black hole?
maybe even more hilarious is the fact that an object of a couple hounded million tonnes can accelerate to speeds of upwards to 200m/s , collide with another object of the same characteristics, same speed but opposing vector and not having it all end in a 200 megaton explosion.
There is a big difference in believability between 'the police are more lax than I would expect them to be!" and "literally impossible combination of physical laws". |
ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
64
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Actually the game does tip its hat to relativistic effects: in the warp tunnel you can see a blue shift ahead of you and a red shift behind. :) |
Yabba Addict
Red Shift Enterprises
58
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Kristoffon vonDrake wrote:Imagine if the game was based on *gasp* magic how ridiculous it would be. I support the OP's initiative of aligning game physics and reality but he should start with games that are glaringly oblivious to reality and use such magic-basic shenanigans. OP, it is your moral duty to the world to register a WoW account and place this question on their forums. New Healer Spells. * Tourniquet * Leeches * Hacksaw * Opium * Pray to Correct God * Leeches Type 2 To be fair, it would be much easier to balance: For all the above: -100 HP per application.
Nah, praying should have a bit of a beneifial effect....you know, placebo effect, right? |
Naes Mlahrend
KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
76
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Damn it OP, I thought I was really flying a spaceship in space. Thanks |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
485
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).
Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...
How many years would you like to pass before you land?
And while school is a bit hazy after all these years, I don't remember Einstein ever publishing anything on the effects of "Faster than light travel"....
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2929
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
Typical Quality Troll Thread by Thomas Hurt. |
HellBent KillingSpree
Republic University Minmatar Republic
78
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
OP, the Star Trek convention is 4 doors to the right. "Dont let your kids play on the weekends unless you like exposing your children to several thousand drunk and drug addicts" An unbiased Amazon players review |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13233
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:And while school is a bit hazy after all these years, I don't remember Einstein ever publishing anything on the effects of "Faster than light travel".... Oh, that's easy GÇö just do the maths.
Since +¦=1/GêÜ(1-v-¦/c-¦), any v>c means we start seeing stuff at complex-number x' and t' coordinatesGǪ so the only problem is figuring out exactly what the hell that means.
I suppose that could solve the problem Douglas Adams presented with getting back at the gods: that no-one figured out how to shoot off nukes at right angles to reality.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3735
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars. ... and Species 8472. ISD Suvetar wrote:EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics, Says you. Do we look like DUST bunnies? ISD Suvetar wrote:and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does. Right., it can't be done. (Oh and the last pic is of a ship going directly from space into planetary atmosphere. Indy game, cost less to make that what CCP spends on pizza in a year.) You realize that last pic is from a prototype engine that can handle only a few ships at a time right? Also it's been in development for years. Don't get me wrong, it's great at what it does... but is completely unable to function on a scale that is useful for EvE. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
6
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:Does anyone else find it extremely odd that this game uses laws of physics that are over 100 years old? There was this guy called Einstein, devs, not sure if you've heard of him? His work in physics was kind of a big deal, and any game that involves faster-than-light travel should take into account the causal paradoxes that would result from such technological possibilities; I should also be able to train skills faster than other people by constantly warping from one system to another (or rather, faster from the perspective of someone who is stationary).
Anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there. This really is a big issue to me; it would be like if Call of Duty had no gravity because "welp, too hard to model" and everyone just sort of floated around. You can't ignore the fundamental nature of reality and expect to present your game as internally consistent...
If you look at the timeline of EVE you will see that it is set around 25 THOUSAND years into the future, by then Newtonian physics are probably treated with as much derision as the scientists that "proved" the Earth was flat or that automobiles should not go beyond 30 mph because our bodies would fall apart at those speeds.
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