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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
845
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 15:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lux Imperator wrote: So, what you are trying to prove, still makes no sense and the decision to offer me the collateral before I sent him the ISK is his own decision.
...and it's a dumb decision.
that's all that needed to be said. TEST alt - don't trust. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
902
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 16:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
So many people upset/butthurt/trolling over a deal 2 guys made with each other ....
it's a frikking game my god .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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shar'ra matcevsovski
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
363
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 18:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lux Imperator wrote: :))) . Oh my god. Look, I will explain this once again. If I was offering the loan through the contract, then it would've been :
" Buyer pays 5 billion ISK. ", not " Buyer will receive 0 ISK"
indeed, where did I say anything else?first of all, I never said "Buyer will recieve"... "Buyer will get 0 ISK" was a quote of what I saw on the screenshot,...talking about reading comprehension :D
at this point, I think the boat is obviously sunk, might awell calm down :s shar'ra phone home |
Jaroo
The Blue Pig Ltd
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 20:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
I have a quick question as I don't use contracts very often. Wouldn't i have to pay broker fees and tax? This is why I had put it to zero. |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
251
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 20:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jaroo wrote:Hmmm I wasn't going to post again until next week, but as I have just got back from the pub and I'm a little bit drunk you have pulled me into replying to the comments. First a screenshot of the contract http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/20130316235232.jpg/ couldn't actually fit all the fittings in the screenshot.... but it covers most of it. Second to the rep grinding question.... I really am quite a casual player and do not believe I could manage to trade more than 10billion ISK any time soon (in fact this will be quite a test for me just to see if I can scale it up from my current trading). I will not be asking for any more larger loans than this in the future..... in fact I would go as far as to say that any of you are free to link back to this comment if I ever try to borrow more. I'm really hoping I will be in the position to lend out my ISK next time round. night all, Jaroo
Imageshack? Let me introduce you to imgur.com We miss you Saede. |
THAT'S HOT
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 20:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:Lux Imperator wrote: :))) . Oh my god. Look, I will explain this once again. If I was offering the loan through the contract, then it would've been :
" Buyer pays 5 billion ISK. ", not " Buyer will receive 0 ISK"
indeed, where did I say anything else?first of all, I never said "Buyer will recieve"... "Buyer will get 0 ISK" was a quote of what I saw on the screenshot,...talking about reading comprehension :D at this point, I think the boat is obviously sunk, might awell calm down :s
Look at this buthurt troll.
Dude, you got owned. The guy explained to you the flaw in your logic. As in the past threads in which you trolled, your logic is flawed and incoherent.
And seriously, Buyer will get and Buyer will receive both define the same action, so again your statement is flawed and pointless.
Plus, it is very strange the degree of satisfaction you have at the thought of other people being scammed in this forum. Why are you so unstable emotionally and have this desire to cripple other people business? This thread doesn't concern you in any way. It's not about your money or your reputation at stake so why you continue of being a pitiful troll is beyond me.
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Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
180
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 22:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lux Imperator wrote:
I think he is talking about the other way around. In the case that the person requesting the loan is not a scammer he will repay you with more cash to make up for the risk you've taken and the trust you gave him.
That is how I look at it, at least.
And that is what risk mitigation means. Of course, offering somebody the world on a platter wouldn't alter the risk of a scam occurring, given that the person wants to commit a scam, and has the opportunity to do so. "Oh, you say you'll give me Iceland in return if I loan you 5b ISK? Here you go!" What does that have to do with whether the person will scam or not? Nothing. |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
254
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 23:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
I'll be honest. The high interest is kind of a deterrent.
I've seen people with much better ideas offer less than half that and who would rather not have their ideas be funded than do it for an interest that would risk to cripple the operation itself.
Sure I like making interest and in theory more is better but I'm not going to invest into something where my own interest is going to serve as a cancer on my own investment from day one. We miss you Saede. |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
180
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 03:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:I'll be honest. The high interest is kind of a deterrent.
I've seen people with much better ideas offer less than half that and who would rather not have their ideas be funded than do it for an interest that would risk to cripple the operation itself.
Sure I like making interest and in theory more is better but I'm not going to invest into something where my own interest is going to serve as a cancer on my own investment from day one.
Nothing new here. Bond offerers in MD rarely promise returns that are actually worthwhile to their clients. I really kind of hate static-return offerings for that reason. In my view, an investment should be run for a percentage-based fee of profits earned, and the rest either returned to investors or rolled back into the enterprise at the option of the individual investor. The offerer has a reason to seek maximum profits, because the higher the profits the better he does, and the clients are getting the sort of return they deserve. it's not guaranteed to be the same exact amount each month, but it will almost certainly be far better than the average offering.
People just take up these really poor-performing investments because they don't really value their capital, but they do enjoy RPing like big investment hotshots who can throw billions around on a whim. You could make way more than 15% on 1bn ISK in a month just by dipping your little toe in the water of station trading. Why anybody would actually commit that much capital for that flimsy a return is beyond me. And the thing is, 15% is considered a HIGH return rate for MD bonds. It's really sad when you think about it. |
shar'ra matcevsovski
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
363
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 05:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jaroo wrote:I have a quick question as I don't use contracts very often. Wouldn't i have to pay broker fees and tax? This is why I had put it to zero.
private contracts dont have a broker fee, its 10.000 isk fix. shar'ra phone home |
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
914
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 08:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:People just take up these really poor-performing investments because they don't really value their capital, but they do enjoy RPing like big investment hotshots who can throw billions around on a whim. You could make way more than 15% on 1bn ISK in a month just by dipping your little toe in the water of station trading. Why anybody would actually commit that much capital for that flimsy a return is beyond me. And the thing is, 15% is considered a HIGH return rate for MD bonds. It's really sad when you think about it.
I've got 170 B in bpo's , 50 B in bc's for speculations sake , 150 B in station trading , 100 B roughly loaned out and still am sitting on a wallet of 100 B + wich i don't have any idea what to place it in.
Yes investming is a mini-game in eve just like pvp or any other risky thing you can do in this game , it's risky and fun but mostly it's about too much isk floating around and too little time/will to do more with it then just loan it out and take the gamble.I rather take an investment gamble then a blink gamble myself but hey blink is cool and fun people spending all their isk on blink ain't crazy it's fun but god forbid we take the same gamble in a ''business'' way.
But i'd like to hear how you invest your 500 B + on a monthly base without spending more then a few hours a day and not needing 25 alts on it , i'm all ears mate broaden my horizon ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
248
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 08:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
flakeys wrote: I've got 170 B in bpo's , 50 B in bc's for speculations sake , 150 B in station trading , 100 B roughly loaned out and still am sitting on a wallet of 100 B + wich i don't have any idea what to place it in.
Yes investming is a mini-game in eve just like pvp or any other risky thing you can do in this game , it's risky and fun but mostly it's about too much isk floating around and too little time/will to do more with it then just loan it out and take the gamble.I rather take an investment gamble then a blink gamble myself but hey blink is cool and fun people spending all their isk on blink ain't crazy it's fun but god forbid we take the same gamble in a ''business'' way.
But i'd like to hear how you invest your 500 B + on a monthly base without spending more then a few hours a day and not needing 25 alts on it , i'm all ears mate broaden my horizon ....
flakeys have you seen Brewsters millions? its american so mebe not.
TL:DR: A minor league baseball player has to waste $30m in 30 days in order to inherit $300m; however he's not allowed to tell anyone about the $300m deal. iCandy - Bonds. - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next **** could spell disaster! iCandy Custom Corp Creation & Corp boosting service |
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
248
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 09:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote: Nothing new here. Bond offerers in MD rarely promise returns that are actually worthwhile to their clients. I really kind of hate static-return offerings for that reason.
Its hard to Know the motives of investors, and without them, how are you know know if it was worthwhile? Lux in this thread has been questioned more than the OP.
2 Types of investors (IMO) - New/2-3 year old player, perhaps plexed up & reads forums, wants to be part of the roleplay of a multi-billion isk "deal", not necessarily in it for the isk, more to get to know ppl, RP way. (If you don't get RP, you are doing EVE wrong.)
- Rich Vets, finding a place to put there isk to work for them. (flakeys, tom hagen, Lux Imperator etc etc etc)
I was able to get away with a 5% rate for un-collateralize loan & as low as 2% with BPO collateral, was the rate worth it for them? See Sentence 1
Mu-Shi Ai wrote: In my view, an investment should be run for a percentage-based fee of profits earned, and the rest either returned to investors or rolled back into the enterprise at the option of the individual investor. The offerer has a reason to seek maximum profits, because the higher the profits the better he does, and the clients are getting the sort of return they deserve. it's not guaranteed to be the same exact amount each month, but it will almost certainly be far better than the average offering.
Profit Share Model? - Who tracks profits? - Investor? - too much work - Fund manager? - Can doctor results by holding stock etc.
Now here we need to discuss precedents. Why would someone gift all they Isk, when others get away with it for 5%, Over Confident? perhaps.
Mu-Shi Ai wrote: You could make way more than 15% on 1bn ISK in a month just by dipping your little toe in the water of station trading. Why anybody would actually commit that much capital for that flimsy a return is beyond me. And the thing is, 15% is considered a HIGH return rate for MD bonds. It's really sad when you think about it.
Again, who is to say they aren't already puling their hair out trading away/PVEing away? flakeys & i idled in the same channel for the entirety of my last bond, (he was "night shift" lol) He was trading away! (best you can do with no burnout)
Sorry to De-rail the thread OP & LUX! p iCandy - Bonds. - I have accidently swallowed some Scrabble tiles, my next **** could spell disaster! iCandy Custom Corp Creation & Corp boosting service |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
180
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 09:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:People just take up these really poor-performing investments because they don't really value their capital, but they do enjoy RPing like big investment hotshots who can throw billions around on a whim. You could make way more than 15% on 1bn ISK in a month just by dipping your little toe in the water of station trading. Why anybody would actually commit that much capital for that flimsy a return is beyond me. And the thing is, 15% is considered a HIGH return rate for MD bonds. It's really sad when you think about it. I've got 170 B in bpo's , 50 B in bc's for speculations sake , 150 B in station trading , 100 B roughly loaned out and still am sitting on a wallet of 100 B + wich i don't have any idea what to place it in. Yes investming is a mini-game in eve just like pvp or any other risky thing you can do in this game , it's risky and fun but mostly it's about too much isk floating around and too little time/will to do more with it then just loan it out and take the gamble.I rather take an investment gamble then a blink gamble myself but hey blink is cool and fun people spending all their isk on blink ain't crazy it's fun but god forbid we take the same gamble in a ''business'' way. But i'd like to hear how you invest your 500 B + on a monthly base without spending more then a few hours a day and not needing 25 alts on it , i'm all ears mate broaden my horizon ....
Most of my billions are saturated in various modules throughout a region, though I'm increasing holdings of high-volume commodities (minerals, moon goo, etc) on a regular basis. In hopefully not too much time, I'll have shifted from spending 30 mins a day updating orders to a more long-term, market-swing based trading system. It's really not hard to find ways to soak up idle capital. And the thing is, you don't need crazy skills to do it either. It's called setting up a buy order at "your price" and waiting for the market to swing past it. I'd much rather do that than drop however many billions on some MD offer where even relatively "high" returns are still crappy, and risk losing it all to a scammer on top of that. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
845
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 10:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Candy Oshea wrote:2 Types of investors (IMO) - New/2-3 year old player, perhaps plexed up & reads forums, wants to be part of the roleplay of a multi-billion isk "deal", not necessarily in it for the isk, more to get to know ppl, RP way. (If you don't get RP, you are doing EVE wrong.)
- Rich Vets, finding a place to put there isk to work for them. (flakeys, tom hagen, Lux Imperator etc etc etc)
- "I'm going to spend my tax return on PLEX and will invest all the ISK I get from selling them. Then I'll rake in 600m ISK/month in interest payments and will never ever have to spend real money for my EVE subscription again." *loses everything to the likes of EBANK, Phaser Inc, ...*
^ that's my favorite type of investor. TEST alt - don't trust. |
Zap Zarrap
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 11:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
wow. people investing billions (or throwing them away) just because they are "sitting on them" ... *sigh*.
i tip my hat to any individual who either worked their ass off in the game for the isk by grinding, or by scamming (not the millions for 1 trit stuff but the long term social engineering ****) or any other means.
now to the most important aspect of this post. can i haz your stuff ?
:-)
on a serious note: why not fund an upcoming corp / alliance directly ? help them get on their feet and leave a mark on the game ?
might make "throwing away your isk" much more interesting than putting it into obscure loans... |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
915
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 14:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zap Zarrap wrote: can i haz your stuff ?
...
Wouldn't even honour you to touch the toilet paper i whipe my ass with .....
Funny how a 5B loan thread get's so much ''OMG throwing away isk'' replies yet on the same MD page we got a ''miner bumping YAWNNNNNN '' thread wich got over 61 B and it's OMG SO COOL .
At times like these i wonder why i even bother reading here when C&P seems to make more sense.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
163
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 14:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Candy Oshea wrote:2 Types of investors (IMO) - New/2-3 year old player, perhaps plexed up & reads forums, wants to be part of the roleplay of a multi-billion isk "deal", not necessarily in it for the isk, more to get to know ppl, RP way. (If you don't get RP, you are doing EVE wrong.)
- Rich Vets, finding a place to put there isk to work for them. (flakeys, tom hagen, Lux Imperator etc etc etc)
- "I'm going to spend my tax return on PLEX and will invest all the ISK I get from selling them. Then I'll rake in 600m ISK/month in interest payments and will never ever have to spend real money for my EVE subscription again." *loses everything to the likes of EBANK, Phaser Inc, ...* ^ that's my favorite type of investor. Those were generally the saddest of the sob stories I've received.
But it is not surprising that someone that is foolish enough to convert significant RL funds into interent spacebux would then go on to throw those away in a further foolhardy transaction. I accept no responsibility for the first mistake no matter how responsible I may be for the second. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
163
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 15:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
flakeys wrote:But i'd like to hear how you invest your 500 B + on a monthly base without spending more then a few hours a day and not needing 25 alts on it , i'm all ears mate broaden my horizon .... Just looking at the holes in your portfolio compared to mine:
You may want to dip into manufacturing, if you haven't already, because it has synergy with your BPO collection and station trading habit and does not require significant additional effort. You will be limited by your alt count, but I assume you aren't that hard up for alts.
T2 BPOs and other limited items (tourney ships), when purchased wisely, have been amongst my best investments in terms of return on effort invested.
Characters can also be excellent investments both in the short and longer term.
I can't say I've really had that much difficulty finding places to invest my isk, but I'm much more preoccupied with return on effort invested than return on isk invested so it's quite possible that you have already dismissed many of the opportunities that I leap on. I'm working (slower than I would like) on my second trillion and have found that isk is in plentiful supply when compared to effort. Given that I'm a semi-retired childless man and you are a hard working cook (and parent?) I would expect that situation to be far worse for you.
I'm also quite heavily invested in accounts, the total goes up and down from month to month but the range has tended to be 11-15 accounts for the last year. That obviously goes against your criteria, but I'm not sure why you would place a restriction there (although PvP is the main driver for my account total and that may have no relevance to you). |
Speculation Dave
Tiericide Kings
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 17:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:I'm also quite heavily invested in accounts, the total goes up and down from month to month but the range has tended to be 11-15 accounts for the last year. That obviously goes against your criteria, but I'm not sure why you would place a restriction there (although PvP is the main driver for my account total and that may have no relevance to you).
I do not know the first thing about pvp so it may be obvious to everyone else but why is it that pvp is the thing that drives you to have so many accounts instead of industry?
I thought that industry with its restrictions that are tied to characters would be more a reason to have lots of accounts.
It was the lots of long mass production jobs for tiericide speculation that made me create my second account earlier this month. I used up twenty jobs on my first account and when I looked at training industry skills on my missioner or training the last job on my indies it seemed the right thing to do.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
163
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 18:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Speculation Dave wrote:I thought that industry with its restrictions that are tied to characters would be more a reason to have lots of accounts. Industry drives you to have more characters, not accounts. Although obviously that will ultimately lead you to have more accounts. It may sound like a nonsense distinction but when you read my answer to your first question it should make more sense.
Speculation Dave wrote:I used up twenty jobs on my first account and when I looked at training industry skills on my missioner or training the last job on my indies it seemed the right thing to do. You probably made the right choice, although I would have gone for the second account earlier so as not to split my training on my first account between three characters until absolutely necessary. I'm assuming you've not run out of useful things to train on your main and the cost of the second account was not prohibitive before this point.
Speculation Dave wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:I'm also quite heavily invested in accounts, the total goes up and down from month to month but the range has tended to be 11-15 accounts for the last year. That obviously goes against your criteria, but I'm not sure why you would place a restriction there (although PvP is the main driver for my account total and that may have no relevance to you). I do not know the first thing about pvp so it may be obvious to everyone else but why is it that pvp is the thing that drives you to have so many accounts instead of industry? There are a number of reasons that apply to PvP but do not really apply to industry.
1. Multi-boxing is not generally important to industry. You may count mining as industry but it isn't really. In many forms of PvP multi-boxing is very important to the point of being essential. Taken to extremes, as many do (including myself), you need a lot of accounts to support the level of multi-boxing "required" by your PvP playstyle.
2. Implant sets can be very important in some forms of PvP and there are restrictions on how easily, how quickly and how often you can switch between implant sets. Multiple characters help here and when you consider (1) you will see that it makes more sense to have multiple characters on separate accounts in order to satisfy both needs.
3. Training & role specialisation of characters to perform narrow task sets in PvP is a common result of (1). You can train a specialist much faster than a generalist and putting them on a separate account means that they do not detract from your other training goals.
4. Fast reaction, fast recovery and mobility can be gained from having multiple accounts. Rather than having to fly one character back to base to reship from an non-optimal ship type to an optimal one you can simply log on the character that flies that ship type and send it out to relieve or augment your first character. If you lose a ship on one character you can log on another to bring a replacement. If you need to be in more than one place at once or quickly move from one place to another far away then multiple accounts can help.
5. The other 2 slots on an account should not be used for additional PvP characters if it can be avoided as multiple PvP characters will conflict with eachother in various ways. Throwing industry characters, trade alts and PvE characters on those other slots does not cause as much conflict. Cyno alts and low-SP scouts are also highly viable for those other slots, even though they can conflict with the PvP mains in many situations, because there are lots of situations where you need lots of these (i.e. you can't really have too many).
There are more reasons, but I think those are the main ones for me.
This is turning into an excessive post, so I'll bring it to a close with a quick run down of the PvP mains on my "permanent" accounts in the hope that this will explain things better:
1. My "main" who's primary purpose is to fly DPS or tackle focused sub-capitals. This is the most heavily used.
2. Slowcat pilot ("slowcats" are a variety of carrier) with low-grade "slave" implants.
3. Triage pilot ("triage" is another variety of carrier) with appropriate implants.
4. Dread pilot with the appropriate implants.
5. Supercarrier pilot with high-grade "slave" implants.
6. Titan pilot with high-grade "slave" implants.
7. Command ship / T3 command link pilot with command implants (mindlinks).
8. Second sub-capital pilot, because one is not enough.
9 & 10. Out of alliance sub-capital pilots, for doing sneaky things.
I've never used all of these in one operation, but I've used more than half of them on one op many times.
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Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 18:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:I'll be honest. The high interest is kind of a deterrent.
I've seen people with much better ideas offer less than half that and who would rather not have their ideas be funded than do it for an interest that would risk to cripple the operation itself.
Sure I like making interest and in theory more is better but I'm not going to invest into something where my own interest is going to serve as a cancer on my own investment from day one. Nothing new here. Bond offerers in MD rarely promise returns that are actually worthwhile to their clients. I really kind of hate static-return offerings for that reason. In my view, an investment should be run for a percentage-based fee of profits earned, and the rest either returned to investors or rolled back into the enterprise at the option of the individual investor. The offerer has a reason to seek maximum profits, because the higher the profits the better he does, and the clients are getting the sort of return they deserve. it's not guaranteed to be the same exact amount each month, but it will almost certainly be far better than the average offering. People just take up these really poor-performing investments because they don't really value their capital, but they do enjoy RPing like big investment hotshots who can throw billions around on a whim. You could make way more than 15% on 1bn ISK in a month just by dipping your little toe in the water of station trading. Why anybody would actually commit that much capital for that flimsy a return is beyond me. And the thing is, 15% is considered a HIGH return rate for MD bonds. It's really sad when you think about it.
Pretty much.
MD =
25% People who like to play "Space Buisness Super-Star"
25% Station / other traders
50% Scammers who come because they see the Space-Buisness-Superstars throwing big numbers around. The scammers usually think something like "ERMAHGERD FREE ISKS WHEN I ASK FOR A LOAN/BOND/IPO"
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
221
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 19:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:I'll be honest. The high interest is kind of a deterrent.
I've seen people with much better ideas offer less than half that and who would rather not have their ideas be funded than do it for an interest that would risk to cripple the operation itself.
Sure I like making interest and in theory more is better but I'm not going to invest into something where my own interest is going to serve as a cancer on my own investment from day one. Nothing new here. Bond offerers in MD rarely promise returns that are actually worthwhile to their clients. I really kind of hate static-return offerings for that reason. In my view, an investment should be run for a percentage-based fee of profits earned, and the rest either returned to investors or rolled back into the enterprise at the option of the individual investor. The offerer has a reason to seek maximum profits, because the higher the profits the better he does, and the clients are getting the sort of return they deserve. it's not guaranteed to be the same exact amount each month, but it will almost certainly be far better than the average offering. People just take up these really poor-performing investments because they don't really value their capital, but they do enjoy RPing like big investment hotshots who can throw billions around on a whim. You could make way more than 15% on 1bn ISK in a month just by dipping your little toe in the water of station trading. Why anybody would actually commit that much capital for that flimsy a return is beyond me. And the thing is, 15% is considered a HIGH return rate for MD bonds. It's really sad when you think about it.
While I agree there are some RP investors in MD, there are plenty semi active investors. The types of investors that have a lot of capital, but do not have the time or energy to invest into higher returning ventures. Those are the types of investors that I generally deposit with me and fill the bonds I secure. Why have your isk sit idle when you don't have the time or energy to properly invest in higher returning ventures.
As far as IPO type offerings like you are suggesting. Those used to be the go to offerings that were found in MD. But over time those IPO operators realized they were doing all the work while everyone else profited from their work. So those that could simply started seeking funding through loans and bonds, so they wouldn't have to give up all their hard earned profits.
To make the point simple: People don't want to share the rewards of their hard work. Imagine going to a bank for a loan to start your own business. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy splitting the profits with the bank while you broke your back working like a dog.
So what I'm saying is, people do value their capital. The investors who don't want to have their isk sit idle as well as the IPO/Bond operators who want to keep the rewards for their own work.
Just my 2 isk, (feel free to ignore me, everyone does anyway) Grendell GÖÑ
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3961
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 20:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
flakeys wrote: I've got 170 B in bpo's , 50 B in bc's for speculations sake , 150 B in station trading , 100 B roughly loaned out and still am sitting on a wallet of 100 B + wich i don't have any idea what to place it in.
Yes investming is a mini-game in eve just like pvp or any other risky thing you can do in this game , it's risky and fun but mostly it's about too much isk floating around and too little time/will to do more with it then just loan it out and take the gamble.I rather take an investment gamble then a blink gamble myself but hey blink is cool and fun people spending all their isk on blink ain't crazy it's fun but god forbid we take the same gamble in a ''business'' way.
But i'd like to hear how you invest your 500 B + on a monthly base without spending more then a few hours a day and not needing 25 alts on it , i'm all ears mate broaden my horizon ....
I am also beyond caring about ISK. I even stopped running jEvEAssets and similar stuff to know what I have amassed.
EvE's flight simulation disgusts me and so does its PvP dynamics and so does some of its industry (expecially mining). So I just play more fun games to get my fill of action. I have actually installed SWTor and found its space combat super-simplicistic but at least it's not against the same static red crosses. The PvP is bad like you'd expect from a gear based game (whereas GW2 is the proper way to do it) but at least it's more enticing than pressing some modules while in a blob (I don't mention small fights because they are out there but I can't be arsed to waste my days finding an handful of small scale). Instanced group PvE, I got surprised by how nice they are.
So what I do in EvE is to upkeep the charity and make ISK. Making ISK for making ISK's sake is not my biggest thing so I just put it in someone else's hands. They certainly can use it better than I do. 5%? 15%? It gets fairly irrelevant once your gameplay stops needing continuous ISK flowing.
Knowing how many years I could stay subbed by buying PLEX does not interest me the least either, so in the end my most fun is to throw in some market analysis and then see others make money on it Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
163
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Posted - 2013.03.19 21:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:EvE's flight simulation disgusts me and so does its PvP dynamics and so does some of its industry (expecially mining). I would agree that much of EVE, possibly even all of EVE, is truely awful in both design and implementation. But somehow the combination of all of EVE's badly assembled facets manage to combine with the single sharded harsh sandbox concept to make a game that is far better than it's component parts. I've yet to find a game that makes a better fist of what EVE does well... but it seems that the price we pay for the few gems is that everything else is truely and outrageously bad.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:So I just play more fun games to get my fill of action. Playing a diverse selection of games on diverse platforms is the best path in my opinion. In fact I find that EVE is often best enjoyed while playing something else. |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
182
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Posted - 2013.03.19 22:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
Grendell wrote:While I agree there are some RP investors in MD, there are plenty semi active investors. The types of investors that have a lot of capital, but do not have the time or energy to invest into higher returning ventures. Those are the types of investors that I generally deposit with me and fill the bonds I secure. Why have your isk sit idle when you don't have the time or energy to properly invest in higher returning ventures. As far as IPO type offerings like you are suggesting. Those used to be the go to offerings that were found in MD. But over time those IPO operators realized they were doing all the work while everyone else profited from their work. So those that could simply started seeking funding through loans and bonds, so they wouldn't have to give up all their hard earned profits. To make the point simple: People don't want to share the rewards of their hard work. Imagine going to a bank for a loan to start your own business. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy splitting the profits with the bank while you broke your back working like a dog. So what I'm saying is, people do value their capital. The investors who don't want to have their isk sit idle as well as the IPO/Bond operators who want to keep the rewards for their own work. Just my 2 isk, (feel free to ignore me, everyone does anyway)Grendell GÖÑ
The problem is, how much can we really say you value your capital when you're throwing it out there for a 7% return, with absolutely no apparatus in place to protect it from fraud or embezzlement? 7% guaranteed, with no scam to come back on you, well, that's respectable. But I'm far more inclined to take VV's argument about why people do it (they simply have too much ISK and really don't give a crap anymore) more seriously than the claim that they do it because they value their ISK, and don't want to see it sit idle.
Now, some people invest in these things successfully. Whatever it is they do to suss out scams from legit offerings, it generally works, and I think it must largely happen outside of MD proper. But even the time spent working that all out may actually be better contributed to setting up and running your own ISK-generation system. Hell, I could show anybody with one free character slot and less than 30 minutes a day how to do that. |
Speculation Dave
Tiericide Kings
1
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Posted - 2013.03.20 16:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
Wow thanks for the detailed answer! kinda nice to see how the 1% lives! |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
915
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Posted - 2013.03.20 16:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Now, some people invest in these things successfully. Whatever it is they do to suss out scams from legit offerings, it generally works, and I think it must largely happen outside of MD proper. But even the time spent working that all out may actually be better contributed to setting up and running your own ISK-generation system. Hell, I could show anybody with one free character slot and less than 30 minutes a day how to do that.
I'd say somewhere around the order of 100 B + purely from MD investments as i don't often do it outside of MD appart from a select few like RAW23 had both MD and out of MD loans with me or really small ones.
Time investment is not that big as you are browsing the forums anyway.Takes as much time as it does me showing the 'i am harcore' guy in C&P how his eve kill record says otherwise.
As for the 'don't care factor' ... i simply never cared about losses themselves only peoples responses to them at times.I hauled covetor bpo's the moment i could afford one from outer ring to jita in a shuttle without a scout/help to give you an idea.That's X jumps null , X jumps low and then another 10 or so empire.People called me crazy but in the end it made me the fastest lazy isk to this day.Just had the occasional 4 B loss then with camps in null. I flew 50 B in covetor bpo's in my shuttle numerous times last year when i started bpo buying/Selling in the bpo chann.
It's a game , if you don't take any risk then where is the fun ?
Edit: OH btw 'sussing' out legit or not investments is 10 % research and 90% luck ... allways has been.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
166
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Posted - 2013.03.20 17:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
flakeys wrote:It's a game , if you don't take any risk then where is the fun ? This.
To be honest if risk is not your thing then maybe EVE is not the game for you. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
166
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Posted - 2013.03.20 17:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
flakeys wrote:I hauled covetor bpo's the moment i could afford one from outer ring to jita in a shuttle without a scout/help to give you an idea.That's X jumps null , X jumps low and then another 10 or so empire.People called me crazy but in the end it made me the fastest lazy isk to this day.Just had the occasional 4 B loss then with camps in null. Ah, the days of old!
The first ships I trained for on Bobby (who was my 2nd real character) were the transport ships. They were also the first T2 ships I owned. When I wasn't stealing ore from miners in them I was running valuable cargo through dangerous places.
Flakey's knows all this because he was playing a year or so before I started playing EVE seriously, but back then we didn't have the option of fitting covert ops cloaks to blockade runners (all we had was +2 warp strength) and the deep space transports were just big versions of the standard haulers with no additional evasion ability. Most people had no idea about the MWD/Improved Cloak combination, cloaks were bloody expensive, freighters were very rare, JFs didn't exist and moving stuff around was a whole lot more exciting (and so was pirating)!
I'd certainly favor a return to a little more risk in everyday EVE activities, because it does seem like the harsh frontier world I started my EVE career in has turned into a children's playpen with no sharp edges, hard surfaces or small items that you could choke on. I'd like to see a few of you people concussed from a fall and turning blue due to a lego brick lodged in your throat! I would hope the feeling is mutual. |
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