EVE Search - A solution to the complex problems

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Mangus Thermopyle	Posted - 2005.08.23 13:15:00 - [1] Complexes are a really nice little feature in the game, especially for new players. I was only 2 weeks into the game when I found my first Worm blueprint, and building it and later using it was the most exciting time in the game so far. However, lately the complexes has gone from something fun to a source of endless frustration: - someone goes to the last level and camps there, killing the boss and looting the stuff whenever he spawns, probably while playing WoW or some other game at the same time. - someone enters after you, when every rat in the level is agg towards you, go directly at the boss, kills him and loots while you are busy with the 20 other rats in that level. - After DT, it seems some players like to visit the first level of a few complexes, get the key to lock other players out, and then doing the first complex while knowing that the others are locked out. Lately, its been almost impossible to find a full complex. For example, yesterday I found what appeared to be a full complex, fought my way through the first 2 levels only to find a camper in the last level. So, here is my suggestion for a solution: 1. As soon as a player/gang enters, the complex entrance is removed (both beacon and gate), and the complex is fully respawned. 2. Each complex has a timer that starts as soon as someone enters. If this timer runs out, the player/gang is warped back to the entrance point of the complex (which is now empty). 3. When the player/gang has left the complex, either by being timed out, or by warping out manually, the complex is randomly moved to a new location with an equal system security. 4. Nothing spawns within the complex while players are there. This would solve all the problems with the current complexes, and it would also make teamwork more essential due to the time constraints. It would also mean that when you do find a complex, you will know its empty of players, and has a full spawn. An interesting sideeffect of this would be that travelling would be more interesting, since at any time you might run past a complex thats just waiting for you. Opinions?
Gibson Grey	Posted - 2005.08.23 13:52:00 - [2] Perhaps the easiest thing would be to make complexes instanced? People are going to be farming complexes instanced or not, at least that way players wouldn't have to be lining up for a chance at the same complex.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.08.23 14:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Gibson Grey Perhaps the easiest thing would be to make complexes instanced? People are going to be farming complexes instanced or not, at least that way players wouldn't have to be lining up for a chance at the same complex. Instanced complexes would mean that any number of people could do them, and there would be no way to limit the amount of uber loot dropped from them. -- Proud member of the [23]. Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.08.23 14:39:00 - [4] Eve willnever have instancing. [23]
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.08.23 14:56:00 - [5] Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 23/08/2005 14:59:38 Originally by: Discorporation Eve willnever have instancing. That, and there's no need to. Eve is based on competing for your resources, markets, and enjoyment. The only problem with complexdes is with those in high security space, since you cannot compete through the use of violence in high sec space, only through the use of time investment. btw, if you see players camping the last level of a complex for respawns, petition them and they will probably be asked to move on by a gm. It's not an official sploit to do it, but I think CCP might very well frown upon it. Secondly, bypassing the spawn and going for the boss directly is a valid tactic. Do the complex with a friend to prevent it. The third issue is easily dealt with as well. Identify a spot were someone does this, get a first level key for those complexes and after next downtime simply use the reserve key the get into the next level while the person in question does the other complex in the area. The above issues and their solutions are things CCP probably foresaw and views as wanted effects instead of as unwanted effects. They expressly stated they will never have instancing in eve because they want you to compete for the content and in doing so create content of your own. Why not check out what corp the regular campers are in and declare war ? That could mean they all of a sudden are open to negotiate about sharing the complexes maybe ?
Mangus Thermopyle	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:09:00 - [6] You are right about the high security areas. The solution I gave should probably only be used in 0.5-1.0. But the lame camping has to stop somehow. Not only is it boring for us who wants to do the comlpexes the normal way, I bet its pretty boring for the camper as well (although he probably plays another game at the same time). An alternative to transporting the complex when you leave it would be to put a timer on yourself, so you cant do the same complex more than once/day. Note however that the timer to finish the complex becomes even more important then since camping would be even more useful. In other words: 1. Only one player/gang can enter the complex, and the complex fully respawns when entering. 2. You get a set amount of time to complete the complex. Failing that and you will be warped out. 3. No respawns in the complex when someone is in them. 4. You cant enter the same complex more than once/day. The drawback of this approach is that you could get queues of people who wants to enter the complex. When I think about this (and yuack, EQ) I feel that teleporting the complex to a random location after everyone has left it is the best solution.
Zzazzt	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle I feel that teleporting the complex to a random location after everyone has left it is the best solution. I feel that Marcus has already given you the best solution. Declare war on the camper(s). You have the tools to shift him/them yourself (wardec & guns), so go do it. If he's n00bcorp, petition. ____________________________________________ http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=202351
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.23 19:24:00 - [8] Prices will soon drop on the ships. With that will go the incentive to camp.
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.08.23 22:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Gibson Grey Perhaps the easiest thing would be to make complexes instanced? People are going to be farming complexes instanced or not, at least that way players wouldn't have to be lining up for a chance at the same complex. Instanced complexes would mean that any number of people could do them, and there would be no way to limit the amount of uber loot dropped from them. Couldn't they alter loot tables so the uber loot dropped less often? ---------------------------
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.08.24 08:19:00 - [10] Thats not the only issue. CCP wants you to compete, they are not interested in creating a situation in which everyone can do everything without having to compete for it with another player. In an instanced Eve, players wold hardly influence eachother. Players hardly influencing eachother means less reason to intereact. Less interaction means less player generated content. Less player generated content means players stop playing when the CCP generated content runs out. And that in turn would mean CCP fails, because they can never compete with the big companies on their terms, but can only attempt to create something new and different. That's what they are doing with Eve Online. And that is why there are so fwe rules in this game, and resources need to be competed for. It's not going to get less, just more.

Mangus Thermopyle	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:17:00 - [11] Edited by: Mangus Thermopyle on 24/08/2005 11:20:00 Drop the instancing argument. First of all, it would only make the situation worse (but in other ways), secondly CCP will never ever implement it. End of discussion! The argument that CCP wants you to compete for the resourses only makes my original idea stronger. You cant compete with a camper, atleast not in high sec systems, but if the complexes had random locations and always a full spawn, then it would be a race who finds it first. And with a timer to complete the complex, camping would not be possible. Besides, you cant really declare war on another big corp for something like this, and you cant declare war on someone who is in a NPC corp, so that argument is silly to the extreme. You declare war to fight over systems, not to get an annoying camper. As it is today, complexes only frustrates and annoys players, and they should be something fun and challenging.
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:55:00 - [12] The Only thing I think is needed is Key cards That have a 24hour Time period on them and they are Specific to each complex. After 24 hours they are rendereed completely useless. In addition They should respawn A lot more frequently.
Simon Illian	Posted - 2005.08.24 13:53:00 - [13] complex have a problem for ppl who want to do the complex they mean to be : pick up some friends, go to the plex, enjoy doing all the level not like we have done with a friend last time : 5 minutes of entertaiment : clearign the 1st complex 4 HOURS of boring ... waiting a ****ing respawn of a key 1 Petition (did this things really works ? 1 bugs (my corpmate can't follow me 1 warp away 1 fell robed and will never do complex, it's more fun fighting in belt ...
Mangus Thermopyle	Posted - 2005.08.29 14:59:00 - [14] The issue with complexes clearly shows why most online game improved by using instances. Traveling 30 jumps, while visiting 20 complexes only to find them all occupied or empty, is NOT what I call a fun time. Either fix the complex, or remove them. Why give campers who play other game while playing EVE 'on the side' an advantage? Thats like encouraging people to macro-mine.
Gibson Grey	Posted - 2005.08.29 15:29:00 - [15] Actually in theory you may have convinced me on the downsides of instancing the complexes. Perhaps a few more complexes in certain areas would help a bit? I still enjoy doing some of the less populated complexes. I think I was originally just looking for something to give me a minor break in working the agent missions, and was taken a little unawares at the amount of preparation it takes to even get through some of "better" complexes.


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