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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Lanu
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Posted - 2005.08.24 20:33:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
I got reimbursed last time I lost a ship 
Same here.. all the time I've asked for reimbursement for lost ships due to bugs/exploits/server problems I've gotten my ship back.
I'm pretty happy with how the GM's handle petitions.. if you have played some other games ( mmorpg's ) then you will know that this is much better then in the other games dont whine  .
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grendels arm
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Posted - 2005.08.24 20:50:00 -
[32]
I will say this sounds like a very whiny post.
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Taketa De
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Posted - 2005.08.24 20:58:00 -
[33]
I see two problems with the issue:
1. Incresing logging beyond a certain degree will increase lag, because every logged event are extra steps in generating the log and writing it to disk/db. That means a fair balance must be found of how far one can go with logging.
Also, increasing the logs increases the amount of information. Too much information means the signal to noise ratio gets smaller and smaller untill it is almost impossible or takes a lot of work and time to find anything usefull in them.
2. People of course all have their own opinion about what is a valid reason for reinburesment and what not. These are of course subjective and everyone thinks they are right, espeically if they don't take the time to view the issue from another point of view then their own.
One example of this would be the crash scenario mentioned above. If you crash like that, especailly against a superior force I would not think that would be a valid reason. If it were, what would keep people from crashing their client on purpose (very easy to do with an external program and no, CCP coud never tell the difference) anytime they got into trouble?
One questions I think GM's should always have to ask themselves (or the policy makers anyway) is if it can be abused. If it can then they shouldn't be reinbursing in this case, because then if they reinburse some and not some others there will be a huge outcry of favoritism...
Yes, some people will not get back things they lost that are not their fault, but unfortunatly it is part of the nature of this type of game. Reinbursing for too much would ruin it a lot more then reinbursing for too little does.
And last I also think one should always stay polite and friendly in these situations. The situation isn't the GM's fault so it isn't fair to offload your frustration and anger on them.
It's a game after all...
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Soren
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:00:00 -
[34]
It does need to be looked at, there's been times when I should have gotten a ship back, and I know some people that just petiton everytime they die, and they get alot of ships back tbh..
That being said I think CCPs policy is "ok". I get reinbursed sometimes, sometimes I don't, I deal with it. Like Kieron said, not many companies do reinbursments. I've never played another game where they gave you back your stuff because of "lag".
_________________________________________________________
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Bozse
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:38:00 -
[35]
Problem with the lag issue is that most cases when u fight npc and something goes wrong and u die because of lag/disconnect u will be reembursed, but when it comes down to pvp in bigger scale u allmost never get reembursed due to lag disconnects because "there is no logs".
My first post contained both a made up scenario and one that have happend (the 1 kill vs 15 kills was to illustrate the that common sens can be applyed in some cases), the drone issue is something that have happend and to get the reply that u wont get reembused because 1. Drones dont create lag. 2. Drones cause equal lag to all hence nothing wrong. 3. There is no log that supports it.
When in fact my client even froze from the lag to the degree where i had to force close it throu windown task manager (worst lag i have seen in game so far), in cases like that it's like a slap in the face to get the reply that there is no logs and nothing that can be done about it, not to mention the "we'r sorry for your loss hope u can recover swiftly"
Might sound as i have a huge problem with CCP but that's not the case i do think they do a realy good jobb and i still enjoy the game, i do however hope that by explaining the problem from my point of view the GM's might get better tools and or some room for common sens in there decissions in the future.
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infused
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:40:00 -
[36]
I've only had refunds when I have provided screen shots or fraps footage... they denied the claims before that.
[EvE Domination]
YARRRRRR!!!!!!!!! |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.08.24 22:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: ****take
...Perhaps some more tools can be put into the GM's hands in the future which would allow for them to better investigate reimbursement claims?
Yes that.
Seem to be concensus that GM do good job with tools they have so maybe 3rd party is not the answer. Better tools is.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
fras
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Posted - 2005.08.24 23:49:00 -
[38]
if ya have money, hire a atty. have them send a subpoenea stating that charges are being pressed against a game member. dont say the reasons why. it just gives them some silly reason to respond negatively to. state that they deman the release of that persons identity to have them served with a subpoenea
under ccp (california civil procedures) its called discovery.
working for a atty's office sure helps( wish i had money or nerve to ask my boss that question) if its possible
id be serving a few people with subpoeneas lol
kill me too mnay times in game lol ill sue wrong wrongful harassment lololololololol
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Blydchyld
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Posted - 2005.09.01 14:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: fras
if ya have money, hire a atty. have them send a subpoenea stating that charges are being pressed against a game member. dont say the reasons why. it just gives them some silly reason to respond negatively to. state that they deman the release of that persons identity to have them served with a subpoenea
under ccp (california civil procedures) its called discovery.
working for a atty's office sure helps( wish i had money or nerve to ask my boss that question) if its possible
id be serving a few people with subpoeneas lol
kill me too mnay times in game lol ill sue wrong wrongful harassment lololololololol
Im so glad that you dont work for my solicitors company. CCP states in there T&C's the following.
'bla bla bla... You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavİk, Iceland.'
Official corp nobody.
The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me |
PiniclePanda
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Posted - 2005.09.01 14:59:00 -
[40]
Edited by: PiniclePanda on 01/09/2005 15:03:14
Edited by: PiniclePanda on 01/09/2005 15:00:21
Originally by: Ticondrius
I've tried the nicely bit. Still down 1 Dominix, 1 destroyer, 1 frig (full of Zyd) and a Deimos, all due to bugs of some type or another that CCP later admits to being a bug and I'm never reembursed.
And I'm up one Rupture. Never had a problem getting reembursed, and was given a rupture back when they had the last huge patch with lag issues, and they decided to just reemburse en-masse. I had lost the Rupture fair and square, and hadn't filed any petitions in an attempt to "cheat the system" or the like  . And I do mean up one, as I also got the insurance payout, which was not withdrawn from my wallet.
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:08:00 -
[41]
I've had nothing but trouble with GMs - even when petitons have been documented by fraps and over ten (10+) eyewitnesses they have been denied. After that incident I just gave up on GMs and havent even bothered to petition several exploiters since then.
Just before I gave up on the GMs I actually tried to petition a cruiser lost to me being AFK at a gate with NPC rats and for no apparent reason and it was reimbursed within the hour.
Go figure.
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
Blydchyld
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:34:00 -
[42]
guys the gm team are only human. There following rules set out by CCP.
Cut em some slack.
Official corp nobody.
The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me |
Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:46:00 -
[43]
I can cut them some slack but ive petitioned 3 times, and never been reimbursed
The first was serious cap bug. I even had a screenshot of it. My cap was at 0 when it showed 55%. Lost a deimos cos of that. GMs said their log showed nothing. Screenshot wasnt accepted as it could be altered etc etc
Second and third time was warping into a gate in 0.0. Both times they had bubbles. Both times i landed on the gate, with my autopilot on, destination set THROUGH the gate i was warping in to. First time, i got podded as my ship just sat on the gate and never jumped. Second time i got podded cos it said "autopilot jumping" then about 5 seconds later "ship is out of control". So i hit jump once im in a pod and get the old jump bug "you can not do this for another 25 seconds blah blah blah".
I have never been reimbursed and im frankly ****ed off with it. Why the hell would i warp into a gate that is camped by 20+ BS and sit there and die in my ceptor? and then get podded? I mean come on, a bit of common sense wouldnt go amiss ffs. As for the third and most recent time this happened, its obvious to me that its the jump bug (which was supposedly sorted out) but of course i got the "our logs dont show anything" standard crap cos the GMs too busy drinking his coffee to actually be arsed to read my petition (the first reply i got was COMPLETELY unrelated to my actual petition so it was obvious the GM hadnt read it)
TBH, wtf is the point in asking? I know someone that got a 2bil apoc + equipment replaced by the GMs cos he ****** up on a mission and died, LEGITIMETELY, yet they wont give me squat even though i lose crap to game bugs and issues.
My Latest Vid: Linky |
Weeman
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Weeman
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
And third party arbitration would help how?
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JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2005.09.01 16:04:00 -
[46]
There is a very simple solution to the reimbursement problem: do not reimburse anything.
For why should you? People pay to access to service to play the game. Playing the game is a process. Owning an item is not. You can always regain the item through gameplay.
Perhaps people should spend less energy on pride of virtual ownership and invest more heavily in the process of playing. I know, I know. This comes from someone who admittedly must be doing something terribly wrong, for he never claimed to have lost anything to a "bug".
Bottom line: reimbursement is a courtesy, not an obligation. Ask accordingly and do not expect anything.
JP Beauregard
=======================
Thinking will ruin your EVEperience.
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Maltroc
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Posted - 2005.09.01 16:30:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Maltroc on 01/09/2005 16:31:30
Originally by: kieron
What Hakera said is spot on. The directives for claim reimbursement that CCP has given the GM team is the most fair based on the tools available. To be honest, most companies have a zero reimbursement policy, so EVE is a bit more free than the others.
Kieron could you check your email (I know you receive loads and are quite busy :) because our corp suffered from POS exploit some time ago. We petioned the event with quite a bit of evidence (fraps, howto).
The GM closed the petition while providing another "solution" for the events. This caused a lot of frustration. Their solution isn't possible the given game mechanics. A second unanswered petition is still going this ages without answer while the first was lost...
Now some days ago the same exploit happened again with another G POS.
Well you can guess that we are a bit frustrated since we provided information how it happened while we get told something that doesn't even work.
</understatement>
PS: I won't go into the details because it would just get the thread locked.
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Weeman
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Posted - 2005.09.01 16:45:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Weeman
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
And third party arbitration would help how?
It wouldnt, all im saying is that the current policy/process is flawed in some respects and needs evaluation in my opinion
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Xune
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Posted - 2005.09.01 17:26:00 -
[49]
8 times petitioned 8 times no reimburse
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drillerkiller2004
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Posted - 2005.09.01 17:50:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Weeman
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
And third party arbitration would help how?
Dude, do you just look through the boards looking for an argument? Every time I see a posting from you it is one were you are shooting someone down and kissing up to CCP! Are you a CCP mole?
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.01 17:57:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Winterblink on 01/09/2005 17:57:09
Originally by: drillerkiller2004
Dude, do you just look through the boards looking for an argument? Every time I see a posting from you it is one were you are shooting someone down and kissing up to CCP! Are you a CCP mole?
If I see something I don't agree with, I'm going to disagree with it. There's no rule against that, man. :)
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drillerkiller2004
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Posted - 2005.09.01 18:11:00 -
[52]
OK np
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.01 18:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: drillerkiller2004
OK np
Nothing major, and nothing personal. :) *shakes hand*
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.09.01 19:42:00 -
[54]
ive had a lot of problems with gms, some even refused flatout to read the damn petition, but some on the other hand are very helpful, a minority though :|
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.01 20:43:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/09/2005 20:45:02
Originally by: Blydchyld
guys the gm team are only human. There following rules set out by CCP.
Cut em some slack.
Why?
Refusing to refund a concord death related to something I DIDN'T HAVE FITTED ON MY SHIP (warp scrambling without a warp scrambler 4tl) is a pile of crap. They CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU HAD FITTED, FFS.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Alerce
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Posted - 2005.09.01 20:49:00 -
[56]
kieron thats rubbish what you said.
Most companies have a pretty good reimbursement team.
I played several mmorpgs in the past and in all of them i did get reimbursements for different things.
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.09.01 20:54:00 -
[57]
Please make sure your replies are constructive and not flames/rants
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
You spin me right round, baby. |
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Phant Zon
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Posted - 2005.09.01 21:16:00 -
[58]
Its simple, if your honestly considering third party intervention concerning a online game, you should 1. Step back and take a deep breath, 2. Either cancel your account or take a long hiatus and 3. remember that its a game, something thats intended for enjoyment. Whats going to happen if one or more persons go this route is CCP will change their policy to NO REIMBURSEMENTS. PERIOD. and you can rest assured in the knowledge that youve ruined it for everyone.
If you need some stress relief, I suggest taking up some martial skill, works wonders to practice something that focuses your attention to the exclusion of all else. As a 10+ year veteran of online RPGs, the first thing I learned is that the maxim 'easy come, easy go' applies quite frequently, and ya better learn to live with it, or you wont enjoy yourself much.
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.09.01 21:41:00 -
[59]
Edited by: w0rmy on 01/09/2005 21:44:55
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Originally by: Guvnor RBM
I've had 3 Battle ships returned to me via GM's and some missing ISK, I never had a problem with paying out, But I guess alot goes on how you word your claim and your attitude when the ask you about it
The wording, provison of client logs too detailed to be false and even screenshots MAKE ZERO DIFFERENCE to the actual random 50/50 chance of reimbursement. Please stop kidding yourselves otherwise 
True.
The GM's flip a coin. Heads you get ****e, tails you get something.
Myself and an old corp mate where both doing lvl4 missions together, the node died, we both logged back in in pods.
We both petitioned, with WORD FOR WORD identical petitions.
He got his ship back, I got told their logs showed no problems with the servers at that time.
Admittedly we got different GM's, but I fail to see how word for word identical petitions, based on identical situations, could result in 2 completely opposite outcomes.
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Raeff
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Posted - 2005.09.02 00:44:00 -
[60]
out of 20 petitions that i can think of right off the top of my head(4 by me with 0 reimbursment), i know of 1 that was granted his items back .. all were well documented(screen shots, etc), including a corp mate that had his freighter ejected from the factory just a day or 2 ago and lost all the materials and was told they cannot reimburse...
i am VERY dissapointed in the GM team and have lost confidence in them almost completely
i pray for the day when they finally get their act together
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