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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
535
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all,
I am a suicide ganker. Since the last hulkageddon, I have been perfecting the art.
My setup of choice today looks like this:
[Catalyst, Catalyst - T1 Suicide Ganker] Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script or Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I (requires perfect fittings, CPU issue) Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I [empty rig slot]
I prefer this setup due to the cost being roughly 2 mil. When a T2-fit catalyst easily costs 5 times more for not even twice the DPS, this ship becomes a clear winner when you can bring more people.
I have been using this setup for some time now, practicing on mining barges and exhumers: - Untanked Covetors can die to a single T1 catalyst in a 0.6, might even get the pod if skills are maxed (avg loot 5-15 mil). - Retrievers with low-to-moderate tank can easily be killed with two T1 catalysts (avg loot 5-10 mil). - Untanked Hulks can just barely be killed with two T1 catalysts in a 0.6 (avg loot 10-40 mil). - Link to our killboard, feel free to check the last two months for confirmation of these numbers.
I did some number crunching concerning freighters and jump freighters:
EHPs Against Caldari Navy Antimatter with level 5 skills (no implants):
Providence - 192124 Charon - 181288 Obelisk - 202988 Fenrir - 172790
Ark - 345824 Rhea - 329735 Anshar - 371146 Nomad - 311021
T1 catalyst overheated volley: 830 (418 dps)
(1.0 - 0.9) 3 volleys = 2490 (0.8 - 0.7) 5 volleys = 4150 (0.6 - 0.5) 8 volleys = 6640
Amount of Catalysts needed (3 / 5 / 8 volleys):
Providence - 77 / 46 / 29 Charon - 73 / 43 / 27 Obelisk - 82 / 49 / 31 Fenrir - 69 / 42 / 26
Ark - 139 / 83 / 52 Rhea - 132 / 79 / 50 Anshar - 149 / 89 / 56 Nomad - 125 / 75 / 47
What have we learned:
1) Aim Minmatar, avoid Gallente 2) Taking variables into account, 50 catalysts (~100 mil) to gank a freighter in 0.5 2) Taking variables into account, 75 catalysts (~150 mil) to gank a jump freighter in 0.5
I am already manufacturing 500+ such catalysts per month. EVE mail me in-game if interested and await further instructions. Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. *snipped* Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon. |
Argaral
Point Precision Tactical Narcotics Team
59
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
I should train another alt.... |
Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
94
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Man we occasionally have trouble getting enough people in highsec to gank freighters and jump freighters with taloses and whatnot, to whoever manages to get even the fifty DPS pilots, I tip my hat to you. Triple points if you don't have several people ISBoxing multiple DPS clients. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1375
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fifty dudes... What's the individual payout you're looking for? Or is this purely for the lulz? I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
276
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Posted - 2013.03.19 04:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nice work. Some very useful info.
The Eve community owes you for putting the hard work in, keeping the economy flowing and adding game content for miners and freighter pilots.
Even if they don't realize it yet - They should all thank you, because if nothing splodes - no one needs to buy anything.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3207
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Posted - 2013.03.19 05:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Fifty dudes... What's the individual payout you're looking for? Or is this purely for the lulz?
Did your mother pay you to take the garbage bin out for collection every week? That's what this world is coming to, you know. People who won't even help themselves without someone paying them to take action. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Alara IonStorm
4659
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Posted - 2013.03.19 05:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just remember that perfection is pretty hard to get everyone to live up. Poor skill, people firing from the wrong range, pilots not overheating or haven't trained it, a girth of low dmg rolls, Ect.
Might want to bring a few extra people and encourage some people to get the highest Meta Guns they can comfortably afford because Meta 2 guns are like 150k and meta 3 Mag Stabs are 200k which is way better then a Freighter escaping because a few people didn't measure up.
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
536
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Posted - 2013.03.19 05:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Fifty dudes... What's the individual payout you're looking for? Or is this purely for the lulz?
We are making a steady profit right now to buy back materials for the catalysts. The machine keeps grinding and every once in a while we hit a bigger jackpot; someone forgets to leave skillbooks in station, another decides to fit meta mining upgrades. When that happens, we divide the profit, otherwise we are essentially ganking for free.
I see a freighter gank the same way. It costs you nothing to join, as I provide the ships. Just getting that bil+ killmail is worth it already, any profit to be divided is a bonus, really. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. *snipped* Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1223
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Posted - 2013.03.19 05:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Congrats
If that was 100 mill between 5 pilots, I'd have balance concerns. But with 30+ pilots? No problems in the slightest; the higher pilot requirement balances it all out. Good luck to you, in your endeavours. Well, unless it's one of my freighters. But I'm sure you understand
Steve Ronuken for CSM 8 Handy tools and SDE conversions Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
GreenSeed
250
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Posted - 2013.03.19 05:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
numbers are off, hull has no resists. |
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Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
95
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Posted - 2013.03.19 06:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Fifty dudes... What's the individual payout you're looking for? Or is this purely for the lulz? We are making a steady profit right now to buy back materials for the catalysts. The machine keeps grinding and every once in a while we hit a bigger jackpot; someone forgets to leave skillbooks in station, another decides to fit meta mining upgrades. When that happens, we divide the profit, otherwise we are essentially ganking for free. I see a freighter gank the same way. It costs you nothing to join, as I provide the ships. Just getting that bil+ killmail is worth it already, any profit to be divided is a bonus, really.
For comedy purposes, how many low meta fitted velators would it take to kill a freighter, at least in EFT warrior theory? Would it be cheaper or more expensive than catalysts?
(I could probably figure this out myself but :effort:)
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2988
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Posted - 2013.03.19 06:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zhade Lezte wrote:For comedy purposes, how many low meta fitted velators would it take to kill a freighter, at least in EFT warrior theory? Would it be cheaper or more expensive than catalysts?
(I could probably figure this out myself but :effort:)
In Pyfa-warriored perfection, 106 @ 280k ISK per (plus Ammo), assuming 20s CONCORD time.
So... ~30m ISK. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
617
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Posted - 2013.03.19 07:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nice work with the number of Catalysts needed for freighters and Jf-¦s BUT it is pure theory.
You need a mean value and standard deviation to know the number of extra catalysts you have to bring to succeed with a confidence level of at least 95%. Just saying...if you want to do it then do it right.
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Brinxter
Bite Me inc Bitten.
19
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Posted - 2013.03.19 07:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Out of sheer curiousity, how do you deal with looting that freighter wreck nowadays? Because you probably need another freighter to scoop the wreck, who'll go suspect upon doing so. And that seems like a bad idea :)
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Whitehound
1261
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Posted - 2013.03.19 08:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
And another drama unfolds...
This is what you do when you have no luck in EVE - you dream of success, of your sucky destroyer, of having 50 friends and how these will put an end to your tears. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
BadAssMcKill
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
176
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Posted - 2013.03.19 08:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zhade Lezte wrote:Man we occasionally have trouble getting enough people in highsec to gank freighters and jump freighters with taloses and whatnot, to whoever manages to get even the fifty DPS pilots, I tip my hat to you. Triple points if you don't have several people ISBoxing multiple DPS clients.
Yeah it'll probably be hard to do on a regular basis but as a one off I'm sure someone would be able to pull it off Starships were meant to fly~ |
Don Purple
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2013.03.19 08:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
My catty is yours sir. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
129
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Posted - 2013.03.19 09:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears.
Have you considered using meta 1/2 blasters and mag stabs? They would add to the damage thus lowering the number of pilots needed. The added cost should be minimal. Malcanis for CSM 8 Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1340
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Posted - 2013.03.19 10:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
GET A BRAIN, MORAN. Shosho Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Diplomat ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
740
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Posted - 2013.03.19 10:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is why we can't have nice things.......I like you! I'm not entirely clear on the point of this, but I do have a sudden urge to jump in a catalyst and blow up a miner. Twitter! - @AzamiNevinyrall I'm half expecting a ban for this post. |
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Whitehound
1262
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Posted - 2013.03.19 10:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears. Have you considered using meta 1/2 blasters and mag stabs? They would add to the damage thus lowering the number of pilots needed. The added cost should be minimal. Ask him if he has tried using rookie ships, because these cost nothing.
He could start a thread, saying, 0 Million ISK to Kill A Freighter in Highsec.
And do not say it is impossible. I have done the numbers. Rookie ships really cost nothing. So I know... Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1093
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Posted - 2013.03.19 10:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Sable Moran wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears. Have you considered using meta 1/2 blasters and mag stabs? They would add to the damage thus lowering the number of pilots needed. The added cost should be minimal. Ask him if he has tried using rookie ships, because these cost nothing. He could start a thread, saying, 0 Million ISK to Kill A Freighter in Highsec. And do not say it is impossible. I have done the numbers. Rookie ships really cost nothing. So I know... EVE is broken! You can alpha a multi-billion titan with a fleet of ships that cost NOTHING.
The blob has won, we can finally shut down the servers. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
Goldnut Sachs
10
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Posted - 2013.03.19 10:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Great to see another scholar of the gank. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
541
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Posted - 2013.03.19 12:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Brinxter wrote:Out of sheer curiousity, how do you deal with looting that freighter wreck nowadays? Because you probably need another freighter to scoop the wreck, who'll go suspect upon doing so. And that seems like a bad idea :)
Since when has anything in EVE been a good idea? "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. *snipped* Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon. |
Cable Udan
The Tuskers
147
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Posted - 2013.03.19 13:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
I approve of this product and/or service. http://chasingtheblueflash.blogspot.com/ My Pirate Blog |
Bexar Ying
Unit 479
0
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Posted - 2013.03.20 03:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Good luck and stay dead. |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
348
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Posted - 2013.03.20 03:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Hello all,
I am a suicide ganker. Since the last hulkageddon, I have been perfecting the art.
No, you have not. If you had, you would be using cheaper than t1, meta modules, that give a higher damage bonus. This would reduce the overall total of catalysts that you needed present, and increase your chance of success should it be close, or anything goes wrong.
It's pretty clear to me that you have never really explored your options, and simply decided, "Hurr durr cheaper is better, why would I want 600 dps, when I could do 360 for cheaper, when I'm going to make all the isk back easily anyway?"
Your setups are bad, and you should feel bad. You quote the price at 100m to gank a freighter? My ass. 100m worth of ships? Maybe. But you completely and utterly fail to account for A) value of time spent grinding security status back up for pilots who need to do so B) value of removing killrights off of pilots who need to shed them C) risk/reward of losing the freighter scooping the loot from your kill, and most importantly D) Compensation for everyone's effort.
Considering you do not simply "Instantly find a freighter worth killing, and immediately scramble 75+ pilots into catalysts within 10 minutes, you have to have most, if not all of the pilots on hand and ready, perhaps for an hour even. Now, what does each pilot want to earn, for being present? Sure, they might do one or two kills, for ***** and giggles, but beyond that, they are going to want compensation for their efforts, which comes down to payout.
The average freighter gank lately seems to have about 4.5bil in cargo. Statistically, 2.25bil will drop on average. That would entail, keeping no Lions Share for organizers and suppliers and such, only 22.5mil per pilot, for all costs involved. Good luck with that. People do this to make a lot of isk, as they should.
7 pilots, in tech 2 fit talos, will spend about 120mil per ship, and for a 4.5bil gank, (2.25bil drop), each pilot would recieve 321 Million isk. That's 201million isk each, AFTER the cost of fully replacing their ship, and you didn't have to herd 75+ cats to achieve the kill.
Good luck, with your hairbrained and completely unreasonable idea, that is OCCASIONALLY pulled off, but never with any consistent reliability. Also, learn to meta. Your t1 fit is a joke, would have HIGHER dps, and LOWER cost, with meta guns and damage mods.
You're welcome. |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
348
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Posted - 2013.03.20 04:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Brinxter wrote:Out of sheer curiousity, how do you deal with looting that freighter wreck nowadays? Because you probably need another freighter to scoop the wreck, who'll go suspect upon doing so. And that seems like a bad idea :)
You warp in your freighter just past the loot, he aligns to a station, and scoops the loot once he is fully aligned, then immediately hits warp. Aside from him getting bumped the moment he scoops the loot, or scooping before he is up to speed, the risks are minimal.
The only real challenge here, is getting 50 pilots together in properly fit ships and getting them to shoot the same freighter. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7136
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Posted - 2013.03.20 04:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
The problem with having such an obscene number requirement to deal with is that the clock starts ticking when the first shot is fired. You'd have to have everyone undock and align to the gate and fleet warp the ships, ensuring that everyone engages around the same time. If your gank fleet does not exceed the number required for the gank to succeed, everyone has to pull it off perfectly and you better hope that some stray Falcon pilot doesn't decide to jam a few GCCed Cats for kicks.
So while it looks absolutely hilarious for a freighter to die to a bunch of Catalysts in Uedama, Talos gangs are simply the most reliable option. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
485
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Posted - 2013.03.20 04:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
I am looking for the comparison to what 50 PvP pilots could make in FW.
Oh wait, something might fire back. NVM.
Have fun whacking your pinatas. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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