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Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
350
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 04:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:I am looking for the comparison to what 50 PvP pilots could make in FW.
Oh wait, something might fire back. NVM.
Have fun whacking your pinatas.
The chance of something firing back, in FW, is actually quite remote, when you have 50 ships present. It's non FW targets that you have to worry more about xD |
Pannax Ni
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 09:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Have you considered the gate guns at all? |
Tom Gerard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
973
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 09:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pannax Ni wrote:Have you considered the gate guns at all?
the answer is clearly no. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
71
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 10:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
Brinxter wrote:Out of sheer curiousity, how do you deal with looting that freighter wreck nowadays? Because you probably need another freighter to scoop the wreck, who'll go suspect upon doing so. And that seems like a bad idea :)
The only thing remotely safe I could think of was to use a JF with a cyno alt at the ready so You can bail out as soon as You have that wreck in Your grubby little paws.
Ofc You'd need someone to make sure Your destination isn't camped by even more piraty pirates by the time You arrive. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8233
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 11:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Hello all, I am a suicide ganker. Since the last hulkageddon, I have been perfecting the art. My setup of choice today looks like this:[Catalyst, Catalyst - T1 Suicide Ganker] Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script or Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I (requires perfect fittings, CPU issue) Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I [empty rig slot] I prefer this setup due to the cost being roughly 2 mil. When a T2-fit catalyst easily costs 5 times more for not even twice the DPS, this ship becomes a clear winner when you can bring more people. I have been using this setup for some time now, practicing on mining barges and exhumers: - Untanked Covetors can die to a single T1 catalyst in a 0.6, might even get the pod if skills are maxed (avg loot 5-15 mil). - Retrievers with low-to-moderate tank can easily be killed with two T1 catalysts (avg loot 5-10 mil). - Untanked Hulks can just barely be killed with two T1 catalysts in a 0.6 (avg loot 10-40 mil). - Link to our killboard, feel free to check the last two months for confirmation of these numbers. I did some number crunching concerning freighters and jump freighters:EHPs Against Caldari Navy Antimatter with level 5 skills (no implants):Providence - 192124 Charon - 181288 Obelisk - 202988 Fenrir - 172790 Ark - 345824 Rhea - 329735 Anshar - 371146 Nomad - 311021 T1 catalyst overheated volley: 830 (418 dps)(1.0 - 0.9) 3 volleys = 2490 (0.8 - 0.7) 5 volleys = 4150 (0.6 - 0.5) 8 volleys = 6640 Amount of Catalysts needed (3 / 5 / 8 volleys):Providence - 77 / 46 / 29 Charon - 73 / 43 / 27 Obelisk - 82 / 49 / 31 Fenrir - 69 / 42 / 26 Ark - 139 / 83 / 52 Rhea - 132 / 79 / 50 Anshar - 149 / 89 / 56 Nomad - 125 / 75 / 47 What have we learned:1) Aim Minmatar, avoid Gallente 2) Taking variables into account, 50 catalysts (~100 mil) to gank a freighter in 0.5 2) Taking variables into account, 75 catalysts (~150 mil) to gank a jump freighter in 0.5 I am already manufacturing 500+ such catalysts per month. EVE mail me in-game if interested and await further instructions. Feel free to help me optimize further or provide me your most delicious tears.
And you'll be splitting the loot with 74 other people, right?
Assuming that you get to make 1 gank every 20 minutes, and assuming a 50% drop rate, you'll need those freighters to be carrying 12.5 bill in cargo each for you and your 74 chums to make the 25M an hour a 3 month old character can get doing level 4s. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8233
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 11:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
And that assumes you're 100% successful with loot scooping, of course.
Better call it 15 billion ISK of cargo per freighter. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2951
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 12:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ganking miners does not make you a professional.
Evidence:
Sentry turrets will blast a catalyst to bits after two seconds even in a 0.5sec.
Assuming you took the sentries into account, your choice of ship is crap, because it cannot reliably tank sentries.
Initial high alpha damage is more important than dps.
Proof: At 0 seconds in a thrasher you will already have done the damage a catalyst would need several seconds more to achieve, while being in an ArtyThrasher also makes the op less errorprone.
Ignoring all your previous, your fitting is not optimized for damage/isk ratio below t2.
You are assuming flawless pilots.
You are assuming all cats will stay alive long enough.
Conclusion: You are a noob, go back to ganking miners.
edit: posting on an Archos 4.3" tablet is ... challenging. |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
555
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 14:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
All this does is further the shield and gun thing cycle. Somebody gives a guide on how to get a freighter in a 0,5; they'll have less in 0.5 and need to move to 0.6. The OP woulda been better keeping his mouth shut. Honest, the suicide ganking is boring. It isn't pvp- pvp inplies there's a two way competition happening. It's way more fun fighting somebody who'll fight back. There are things about eve players that i just won't ever understand. Why gank a frieghtor when ranceer would give a fight? Logistics in eve are god awful as is, this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.
CCP don't make us wait another decade for a drone overhaul; DRONE OVERHAUL NOW! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8234
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 15:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:All this does is further the shield and gun thing cycle. Somebody gives a guide on how to get a freighter in a 0,5; they'll have less in 0.5 and need to move to 0.6. The OP woulda been better keeping his mouth shut. Honest, the suicide ganking is boring. It isn't pvp- pvp inplies there's a two way competition happening. It's way more fun fighting somebody who'll fight back. There are things about eve players that i just won't ever understand. Why gank a frieghtor when ranceer would give a fight? Logistics in eve are god awful as is, this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.
It's not done for "fights", it's done to make money. It's piracy, not tournament jousting. Pirates don't seek out navy frigates for "good fights", they seek fat, weak targets for easy profits.
As long as people insist on using untanked Iteron IIIs to move multiple billions of ISK worth of goodies or AFK freighters full of Technetium, then there will be piracy in hi-sec. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
557
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Acac Sunflyier wrote:All this does is further the shield and gun thing cycle. Somebody gives a guide on how to get a freighter in a 0,5; they'll have less in 0.5 and need to move to 0.6. The OP woulda been better keeping his mouth shut. Honest, the suicide ganking is boring. It isn't pvp- pvp inplies there's a two way competition happening. It's way more fun fighting somebody who'll fight back. There are things about eve players that i just won't ever understand. Why gank a frieghtor when ranceer would give a fight? Logistics in eve are god awful as is, this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.
It's not done for "fights", it's done to make money. It's piracy, not tournament jousting. Pirates don't seek out navy frigates for "good fights", they seek fat, weak targets for easy profits. As long as people insist on using untanked Iteron IIIs to move multiple billions of ISK worth of goodies or AFK freighters full of Technetium, then there will be piracy in hi-sec.
that's not true because freighters aren't guaranteed to drop billions of isk CCP don't make us wait another decade for a drone overhaul; DRONE OVERHAUL NOW! |
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John E Normus
New Order Logistics CODE.
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Got a stinger in a rookie to hit the freighter and prevent logoffski with a 15 minute flag?
Got a couple bumpers to get him 150km + off the gate?
Got a salvager?
Got a hero to do cargo transfer to your freighter?
Got 50 pilots who have the patience to wait for the scouts to find a good target?
DPS is the easy part. I wish you luck. If you need an extra cat, hit me up! Vote JAMES 315 for CSM8 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7139
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:that's not true because freighters aren't guaranteed to drop billions of isk
nor are rifters in rancer, for that matter ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
baltec1
Bat Country
5669
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
John E Normus wrote:Got a stinger in a rookie to hit the freighter and prevent logoffski with a 15 minute flag?
Got a couple bumpers to get him 150km + off the gate?
Got a salvager?
Got a hero to do cargo transfer to your freighter?
Got 50 pilots who have the patience to wait for the scouts to find a good target?
DPS is the easy part. I wish you luck. If you need an extra cat, hit me up!
Not to mention all the isk must be split between all of those people. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2335
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:John E Normus wrote:Got a stinger in a rookie to hit the freighter and prevent logoffski with a 15 minute flag?
Got a couple bumpers to get him 150km + off the gate?
Got a salvager?
Got a hero to do cargo transfer to your freighter?
Got 50 pilots who have the patience to wait for the scouts to find a good target?
DPS is the easy part. I wish you luck. If you need an extra cat, hit me up! Not to mention all the isk must be split between all of those people. That's the real deal breaker. Splitting the ISK 150 ways seems like a lot of work and math.
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Ayame Tao
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 18:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote: this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.
therein is your reason
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3011
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 20:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It's not done for "fights", it's done to make money. It's piracy, not tournament jousting. Pirates don't seek out navy frigates for "good fights", they seek fat, weak targets for easy profits.
Well... sometimes... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cape_St._George_(CG-71) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gonzalez_(DDG-66)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niv%C3%B4se_(F_732)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nicholas_(FFG-47)#2010s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ashland_(LSD-48)#Later_service
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_12_January_2012
... I'm starting to think RL pirates might not be super good at their jobs... This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
353
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 20:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:Malcanis wrote:Acac Sunflyier wrote:All this does is further the shield and gun thing cycle. Somebody gives a guide on how to get a freighter in a 0,5; they'll have less in 0.5 and need to move to 0.6. The OP woulda been better keeping his mouth shut. Honest, the suicide ganking is boring. It isn't pvp- pvp inplies there's a two way competition happening. It's way more fun fighting somebody who'll fight back. There are things about eve players that i just won't ever understand. Why gank a frieghtor when ranceer would give a fight? Logistics in eve are god awful as is, this is just pure dickery for the sake of being a ****.
It's not done for "fights", it's done to make money. It's piracy, not tournament jousting. Pirates don't seek out navy frigates for "good fights", they seek fat, weak targets for easy profits. As long as people insist on using untanked Iteron IIIs to move multiple billions of ISK worth of goodies or AFK freighters full of Technetium, then there will be piracy in hi-sec. that's not true because freighters aren't guaranteed to drop billions of isk
Except it is true. Invention jobs aren't garaunteed to successfully invent into T2 bpcs, but it happens, statistically, reliably enough, to be a profitable endeavour. The same goes for ships. Loot drops averaged out at 50% of the time. Thus, if you kill 10 freighters, each carrying 5bil, you will average out 2.5bil worth of loot per freighter. some goons have made an absolutely shitload of isk doing this.
funny thing is, for being pros at it, and doing it extensively, sometimes over 100 freighters per month, you'd think if this was "Perfecting" the freighter gank, theyd stop using TECH 2 FIT talos, and go with tech 1 fit, or your catalysts. But they don't. Oh well, guess you're wrong, OP. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3011
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 20:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Except it is true. Invention jobs aren't garaunteed to successfully invent into T2 bpcs, but it happens, statistically, reliably enough, to be a profitable endeavour. The same goes for ships. Loot drops averaged out at 50% of the time. Thus, if you kill 10 freighters, each carrying 5bil, you will average out 2.5bil worth of loot per freighter.
Which game mechanic guarantees the availability of Freighters with 5b in cargo to gank? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Whitehound
1315
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 21:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Which game mechanic guarantees the availability of Freighters with 5b in cargo to gank? I forgot its name, but it is the one that allows greedy players to log into the game. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
34
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 01:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
I disagree with the OP in the strongest possible terms.
NOT using T2 modules on suicide gank ships greatly lowers the amount of ISK I make looting blue gank ship wrecks.
I've make almost 300 million in the last week like this. I've done some really stupid **** in this game. |
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
545
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 02:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Pannax Ni wrote:Have you considered the gate guns at all?
Gate guns will obliterate 2-3 catalysts, negating their damage significantly. Nevertheless, we were able to gank an untanked Prowler on a 0.6 gate (CONCORD already present) with only 2. That number remains constant regardless of the number of people going GCC. This is why I think 50 catalysts is overkill when numbers say 30 should do it.
Ave Kathrina wrote:I disagree with the OP in the strongest possible terms.
NOT using T2 modules on suicide gank ships greatly lowers the amount of ISK I make looting blue gank ship wrecks.
I've make almost 300 million in the last week like this.
Not everyone will want to join-in for the ISK/hour. What happens when your group becomes so efficient killing freighters at such minimal cost that you can start ransoming left and right?
At the very least, you pay 2 mil to be part of a bil+ killmail. Could be more fun then going on a 30-jump roam then ganking one Drake. Yet these roams happen everyday and there is an unlimited supply of AFK freighters in highsec. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. *snipped* Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
545
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 02:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Arronicus wrote: funny thing is, for being pros at it, and doing it extensively, sometimes over 100 freighters per month, you'd think if this was "Perfecting" the freighter gank, theyd stop using TECH 2 FIT talos, and go with tech 1 fit, or your catalysts. But they don't. Oh well, guess you're wrong, OP.
I sense a strong feeling of skepticism in you. To be honest, so do I. I sure as hell hope it ain't THAT easy and inexpensive to suicide gank a freighter. But what if it is? And if the first such freighter gank would be yours, would you send me an equally passionate letter of tears claiming abuse of game mechanics since no one had done it previously?
If it's not... 100 mil is equivalent to what for trying? One T2-fit Tornado getting ganked in lowsec. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. *snipped* Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
678
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 05:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
[Thrasher, T1 Suigank]
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Sensor Booster I Sensor Booster I Warp Scrambler I
280mm Gallium Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 280mm Gallium Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 280mm Gallium Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 280mm Gallium Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 280mm Gallium Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 280mm Gallium Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 280mm Gallium Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S [Empty High slot]
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I [Empty Rig slot]
Better range = less chance of problems applying damage High alpha maximizes applied damage in short fights.
Assuming 15-16 seconds in .5 -.6 space: 4 volleys = 6164 damage. In .7-.8, it depends on whether or not you get off the third volley. If so, 4623 damage. Else, 3082 in .9-1.0, probably two volleys = 3082 damage.
Damage type flexibility provides another small but noticeable boost in effective damage. |
Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
399
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 06:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:Message body can not be empty.Why do you want to post an empty message?
you know... stuff I Endorse this Product and/or Service EVE Online Battle Recorder When I press F1 I get ISK |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
69
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 07:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Funny how this post just proves that ganging in empire is way too easy and CCP should do something about it. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8239
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 07:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Funny how this post just proves that ganging in empire is way too easy and CCP should do something about it.
Using similar logic I could prove that supercapitals need a huge buff. A couple of gank-fitted pulse oracles can easily kill an AFK supercarrier, given enough time.
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
361
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 08:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Arronicus wrote:Except it is true. Invention jobs aren't garaunteed to successfully invent into T2 bpcs, but it happens, statistically, reliably enough, to be a profitable endeavour. The same goes for ships. Loot drops averaged out at 50% of the time. Thus, if you kill 10 freighters, each carrying 5bil, you will average out 2.5bil worth of loot per freighter. Which game mechanic guarantees the availability of Freighters with 5b in cargo to gank?
While you know very well that my comment was made in regards to when freighters are cargo scanned, and selectively ganked based on fat cargo;
The one that allows freighters to be easily trained up, and stuffed full of loot. Years and years of freighter ganks support my statement. Surely, if there weren't some mechanic garaunteeing it, it wouldn't happen frequently, for years on end? Often on a multiple-times-per-day-basis. |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
361
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 08:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Funny how this post just proves that ganging in empire is way too easy and CCP should do something about it.
According to Azrael, organizing 50-100 pilots all in the same type of ship with similar fits, all attacking in coordination, and ignoring the effect of gate guns, is easy.
TIL 50+ players being able to kill 1 undefended player = too easy. Quick, hire Azrael as a dev so he can give freighters Titan-HP. |
Skorpynekomimi
480
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 09:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
Interesting. And a thrasher fit as well!
Any other choices of ships/modules? Why did you pick the ones you did? Do you have a Noctis around to salvage and loot the wrecks for next time?
How does this strategy compare against a tanked orca?
As an opportunist and industrialist, this intrigues me. Maybe I can make money selling stuff to you people. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5678
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 09:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Gogela wrote: That's the real deal breaker. Splitting the ISK 150 ways seems like a lot of work and math.
It could be as easy as: - First, paying for the next batch of catalysts. - Second, splitting extra profits between designated groups/corps. The group/corp designated liquidator would then proceed to further split their share according to their own rules. I would personally use my share towards the "corp fund" for extra catalysts or other corp projects.
You would earn more doing missions. The reason why people dont gank these things with destroyers is because the isk is split between so many people its just not worth it.
Azrael Dinn wrote:Funny how this post just proves that ganging in empire is way too easy and CCP should do something about it.
CCP cant nerf stupid. |
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