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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3742
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Posted - 2013.03.21 16:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112646/moma-applied-design-exhibit-mistakes-video-games-art?=tw The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2775
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Posted - 2013.03.21 16:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Eve Forums must be irritated that you cheat on it with other websites so frequently. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3742
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Posted - 2013.03.21 16:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Eve Forums must be irritated that you cheat on it with other websites so frequently.
Gotta have my share of 'strange'. The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
557
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Posted - 2013.03.21 17:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
they mad wumbo |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3743
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Posted - 2013.03.21 17:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:they mad
Or something. I don't think the reviewer is even approaching any of it from a visual standpoint. MYST is not a work of art ? Come on....... The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
653
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Posted - 2013.03.21 17:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wow, that article, it hurts me on levels of indignation that are only aroused when seeing people being people in front of me as they lit themselves on fire and then regret it.
No. Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1064
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Posted - 2013.03.21 17:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
They missed the point - the MoMA exhibit is about design, not code. The article is a cogent and well-researched argument about something totally irrelevant; the very definition of a 'strawman' argumental fallacy. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3745
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:They missed the point - the MoMA exhibit is about design, not code. The article is a cogent and well-researched argument about something totally irrelevant; the very definition of a 'strawman' argumental fallacy.
Exactly. If it was about code, the exhibit would be in a Technology or Science Museum.
The MoMA chose EVE for the same reason they chose as the first film ever for their Film Archive "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (1974). The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Noriko Satomi
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
165
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Posted - 2013.03.21 20:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:They missed the point - the MoMA exhibit is about design, not code. The article is a cogent and well-researched argument about something totally irrelevant; the very definition of a 'strawman' argumental fallacy. I disagree. His argument was that the art was in the experience of playing the game and the exhibit only showed video loops, and was therefore not art. The title was misleading but his point is made in the final paragraph.
His comparison to the transformative experience of reading a novel or poetry flirted with calling video games art, although he deliberately sidestepped calling them that outright. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1069
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Posted - 2013.03.21 20:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Noriko Satomi wrote:silens vesica wrote:They missed the point - the MoMA exhibit is about design, not code. The article is a cogent and well-researched argument about something totally irrelevant; the very definition of a 'strawman' argumental fallacy. I disagree. His argument was that the art was in the experience of playing the game and the exhibit only showed video loops, and was therefore not art. The title was misleading but his point is made in the final paragraph. His comparison to the transformative experience of reading a novel or poetry flirted with calling video games art, although he deliberately sidestepped calling them that outright. Disagree with your disagreement.
The specific reason that MoMA espablished the exhibit was because of design, which he, in my opinon, fails to address. He talks a lot about code but code is not design. In fact, he departs the central issue in the second sentence. The real discussion should be: "Can Design Be Called Art?" He never really addresses that issue, skirting around it and tossing out strawmen. Before he can criticise the MoMA exhibit, he needs to answer the central question for himself - Which I don't think he actually has. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
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Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
14783
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Posted - 2013.03.22 12:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Surely this goes into category of "I may not know art, but I like / dont like it"
I personally dont think modern art, is art. Having been to the Tate modern several times I wanted to beat the artists with their own exhibits while shouting "this is not art".
But to each his own if you ask me.
The whole opinions and bum holes argument comes to mind. "I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"Something I don't say very often: The welshman is right." - Marcus Gord |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3753
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Posted - 2013.03.22 12:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Graygor wrote:
I personally dont think modern art, is art.
Too broad of a statement.
This is not art ? Wayne Thiebaud The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
14799
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Posted - 2013.03.22 12:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Graygor wrote:
I personally dont think modern art, is art.
Too broad of a statement. This is not art ? Wayne Thiebaud
Alright, by that I mean 90% of the Tate modern gallery and whoever wins the Tate Modern Art prize every year in the UK.
And thats good solid art to me with what you linked. Very nice actually.
I was referring more to tat like this. "I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"Something I don't say very often: The welshman is right." - Marcus Gord |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1684
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Posted - 2013.03.22 13:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
The answer to whether video games are any conventional type of "art" or not is pointless. Video games obviously do not fit the definition of fine art, nor visual art, nor performance art, not even applied art, and certainly not literature - even if they can contain pieces of each. Video games can and usually are more than any and all those art types combined - if for nothing else, then for the (somewhat) interactive component (but that's understating it heavily). I would argue that they are their own separate category of art which does not really stand a lot of direct comparison with any other of the subcategories of art. And like anything any human ever does, a big chunk of it is junk. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1094
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Posted - 2013.03.22 14:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Graygor wrote:Surely this goes into category of "I may not know art, but I like / dont like it"
I personally dont think modern art, is art. Having been to the Tate modern several times I wanted to beat the artists with their own exhibits while shouting "this is not art".
But to each his own if you ask me.
The whole opinions and bum holes argument comes to mind. No, this specific case isn't about whether or not the observer considers it to be art - The author of the critique is trying to apply a legal absolute to defend his position, but his position is only peripherally related to the subtect at best. and poorly-defined, to boot.
He needs to take a stand on the 'Design as Art' issue before he can even begin to address the qualifications of the exhibit. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1094
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Posted - 2013.03.22 14:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Akita T wrote:The answer to whether video games are any conventional type of "art" or not is pointless. Nope. Creative endeavor is one of the higher human aspirations, and exploring the boundaries of it is never pointless. That's one of the purposese of MoMA - To contribute to the dialog abuot those boundaries. This exhibit furthers that purpose. Maybe Design isn't art. Maybe it is. Maybe these video games are artistic examples of design, or maybe they're not.
Museums exist to educate, and part of education is debate. Certainly, this exhibit has stirred debate.
Quote:And like anything any human ever does, a big chunk of it is junk. Sturgeon's Revelation applies here: "Nintey percent of everything is crap."
I'll further add the Mike Meyers / Stuart Rankin corollary to same: "If it's not Scottish, it's crrrraap." Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3756
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Posted - 2013.03.22 16:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Graygor wrote:And thats good solid art to me with what you linked. Very nice actually. I was referring more to tat like this.
Installations can indeed be a bit trippy sometimes. I've experienced amazing ones (by Brian Eno even) and horrible ones like that. The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3756
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 16:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Akita T wrote:The answer to whether video games are any conventional type of "art" or not is pointless. Video games obviously do not fit the definition of fine art, nor visual art, nor performance art, not even applied art, and certainly not literature - even if they can contain pieces of each. Video games can and usually are more than any and all those art types combined - if for nothing else, then for the (somewhat) interactive component (but that's understating it heavily). I would argue that they are their own separate category of art which does not really stand a lot of direct comparison with any other of the subcategories of art. And like anything any human ever does, a big chunk of it is junk.
I agree but my take is that these games are related to what most think of as art in the same way architecture is related to art (and can be art).
Just as the games have things like coding and 'the player experience' as elements of the 'art', so engineering and manufacturing issues are elements of architecture's 'art.
Actually, what I'm trying to say is hard to put into words, but I think that's it....... The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3756
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 16:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
By sheer coincidence this was Tweeted by MoMA an hour ago and it plays directly into this thread:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/03/nasa-or-moma/274212/?=tw The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Davith en Divalone
Plate of Beans Incorporated
93
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Posted - 2013.03.22 19:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Most of these arguments can be applied to things that are easily recognized in other contexts as art. If it is not art because it is not fixed, then Don Giovani and Bethoven Symphonies are not art. If it's not art because it doesn't have a singular perspective, then architecture and sculpture are not art. If it's not art because it's a collaborative work, then the Notre Dame, Frank Lloyd Wright, and Driscoll/Tiffany lamps are not art. |
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1101
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Posted - 2013.03.22 20:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nice.
Got 'em mostly right, too. But some of the MoMA stuff is hard to distinguish from NASA. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Ila Gant
Hedion University Amarr Empire
302
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Posted - 2013.03.22 21:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Art Noun
- The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
- Works produced by such skill and imagination.
Half Life 2 is art. Angry Birds is art. Eve Online is art.
Even the exhibits of crap on the wall are art. They're just bad art. This is where the intelligentsia wrap themselves into pretzels. It's art, but it's bad, as in the opposite of good, and if you'll forgive the expression, Heaven forbid that anyone anywhere judge anything as good or bad. A large part of the point of inflicting ugly abstract art on college campuses is to deconstruct beauty and its association with good. But I digress...
Pacman is art in the same way the Blondie comics are art.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1687
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Posted - 2013.03.22 23:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Akita T wrote:The answer to whether video games are any CONVENTIONAL type of "art" or not is pointless [...] they are their own separate category of art which does not really stand a lot of direct comparison with any other of the subcategories of art. Nope. Creative endeavor is one of the higher human aspirations, and exploring the boundaries of it is never pointless. That's one of the purposese of MoMA - To contribute to the dialog about those boundaries. I am not disagreeing with anything you just said, so I don't really see the need for a "nope" in there. Note that I specifically said "conventional", that being the keyword there. And it's further clarified later on (a section I re-included in the quote). http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3757
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 23:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Akita T wrote: Note that I specifically said "conventional", that being the keyword there.
Indeed, most Conceptual Art bears no relation to Painting, but both are art. The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
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