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Kane Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
24
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Posted - 2013.03.25 15:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mens Reppola of Ishukone proves yet again that he's a better man than Heth will ever be. Heth's decision to move the Shiigeru into low orbit cost tens of millions of lives and countless State resources on both the ground and in orbit. Even if the State holds control of Caldari Prime's surface what next? There will be no chance for reinforcements and the CPD will crumble without the necessary logistical support.
The fact that firing the doomsday device on Caldair Prime was attempted disgusts me. At this point though I have no love for Heth or Roden. They both want to kill the clone soldiers of my organization and are more concerned with the ground war then civilians trapped in the devastated Arcurio.
If Heth obstructs the Ishukone forces or the Ishukone Watch in any way he will have revealed himself as the traitor of the State many of us already know him to be.
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Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
752
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kane Spero wrote:Mens Reppola of Ishukone proves yet again that he's a better man than Heth will ever be. Heth's decision to move the Shiigeru into low orbit cost tens of millions of lives and countless State resources on both the ground and in orbit. Even if the State holds control of Caldari Prime's surface what next? There will be no chance for reinforcements and the CPD will crumble without the necessary logistical support. The fact that firing the doomsday device on Caldair Prime was attempted disgusts me. At this point though I have no love for Heth or Roden. They both want to kill the clone soldiers of my organization and are more concerned with the ground war then civilians trapped in the devastated Arcurio. If Heth obstructs the Ishukone forces or the Ishukone Watch in any way he will have revealed himself as the traitor of the State many of us already know him to be.
Why should a Caldari ask a Gallente for permission to do anything on their home planet?
Vile submission.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Kane Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
24
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's because Mens Repola is a true Statesmen and not some vile madman that over and over again shows his utter contempt for ancestral home lands through invasion, subjugation, and genocide.
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Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
393
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Anyone who claims that one man should be running the State should be re-evaluating his perception of what the State is. |
Lialus Raithe
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
161
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Why should a Caldari ask a Gallente for permission to do anything on their home planet?
Vile submission.
Ishukone Corporation has long been a pioneer of diplomacy and putting aside pride and enmity to accomplish a greater goal for a greater number of people. If only more in the Federation and the State possessed these qualities. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
380
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kane Spero wrote:Mens Reppola of Ishukone proves yet again that he's a better man than Heth will ever be. By this move Mens Reppola just showed weakness by addressing those, who committed crime against the State and humanity.
Kane Spero wrote: Heth's decision to move the Shiigeru into low orbit cost tens of millions of lives and countless State resources on both the ground and in orbit.
It wasn't the decision to move the Shiigeru into low orbit that caused loss of so many lives, but rather traitorous gallentean attack when the Shiigeru was in low orbit. Just moving ship doesn't cause casualties. Capital ship engagement does.
Kane Spero wrote: Even if the State holds control of Caldari Prime's surface what next? There will be no chance for reinforcements and the CPD will crumble without the necessary logistical support.
Proper retaliation will solve this problem.
Kane Spero wrote: The fact that firing the doomsday device on Caldair Prime was attempted disgusts me. At this point though I have no love for Heth or Roden. They both want to kill the clone soldiers of my organization and are more concerned with the ground war then civilians trapped in the devastated Arcurio.
At the moment it was the only option to stop gallente oppression and prevent greater loss of life, that, unfortunately, happened because of gallentean attack.
Kane Spero wrote: If Heth obstructs the Ishukone forces or the Ishukone Watch in any way he will have revealed himself as the traitor of the State many of us already know him to be.
As far as I know, at the moment majority of directors support Tibus Heth and his decisions. It is the Ishukone, that acts all the time as black sheep, staining dignity of the State. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
753
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kane Spero wrote:That's because Mens Repola is a true Statesmen and not some vile madman that over and over again shows his utter contempt for ancestral home lands through invasion, subjugation, and genocide.
I imagine most Caldari would think approaching the Gallente Senate on their knees and begging for access to their own home planet constitutes a vile dishonor bordering on the need for an assisted suicide.
As I said, vile submission.
Despite Heth's recent shortcomings the man can hold his head high for trying and not begging, unlike Repola.
Taking what one wants, not asking politely.
And one lost battle, no matter the size, does not a lost cause make. There will be more blood before they are done.
THIS is the time for true State patriots to pick their jaws off the floor, put aside differences, and take what is theirs together.
Or let the Federation have it and go home, and deal with the collective emotional consequences.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange
149
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
No offence to Mens Reppola, but we don't need another attempt at centralised government. Megacorporate governance requires oversight not centralisation, and we should learn well the lessons of the last ten years, both the five leading up to the formation of the CPD and the five subsequent.
We have a lot of growing to do as a nation, and a lot of tough decisions to make. But I for one will not stand for the perceived failure of a centralised system being used to install another singular figure. The Big Eight represent the only government we need, we endured over a century without centralised government against all the odds, including the constant pressure applied from the Federation. Weakness in this system has allowed the current situation to spiral out of hand, weakness born of greed and discontent.
It is time that we as a people pushed for a return to decentralised, corporate governance, with an emphasis on third party regulation of executive practice, earnings and lateral freedoms. If an individual is to be considered to be the best among peers, he or she should be held to that standard. But never again should one person be considered the best among all Caldari.
All due respect to the Executor, but he has clearly become consumed by the responsibility and crushed under the weight of an impossible position to maintain. Heth is a man who once led from the front, planted the flag for our people on Caldari Prime and provided a beacon in trying times. But he is just a man, a man whose flaws have been wrenched ever further into the public domain by the pressures of maintaining that most fallacious of positions; that he is first among equals.
Whether the Executor steps down is not for us to say, as much as we may vocalise one way or another. But never again should our glorious State be bound to the whim and will of one person. CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: An International trade corporation that adheres to State values
Intaki born State Citizen and supporter of the Practicals Bloc. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
380
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
I believe that while this conflict continues and before we completely secure space around Caldari Prime and make any attack of gallentean invaders impossible, centralised government is more suitable to achieve these goals. |
Kane Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
24
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aellsha,
I see the wisdom is your words. I agree that corporate governance and the removal and Heth as Executor would allow the State to keep the progress it has gained during these trying times. Honestly, even if Mens Reppola were offered to take Heth's place I'm sure he would refuse.
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Fredfredbug4
The Scope Gallente Federation
609
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Posted - 2013.03.25 17:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have always been fond of Mens Repolla and the Ishukone corporation. During the years I lived in the State, members of the Ishukone corporation welcomed me with open arms into the State and didn't care what my cultural and ethnic background was. As long as I was there, I was one of them in their eyes.
As a Gallente citizen I don't deserve to say much on internal affairs of the State, however I do have my two cents. I don't think the State should be ruled by anyone person, but if it must be that way, Mens Repolla is a great candidate who will restore glory to the State and peace with the Federation.
But still, even if the best man or woman in New Eden was running the State, I still think that power should not be focused on one person, no matter who he or she is. I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
3
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Posted - 2013.03.25 20:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
While I understand and appreciate the value given to pride by some of those here who support the State, there is one important detail we must remember:
Just as the citizens of the State have a duty to the State, the State has a duty to its citizens.
With this magnanimous display by Ishukone Corporation, we remind the cluster that the State is aware of its duty, and wishes simply to do its duty to the Homeworld -- de-fanging those vitriolic partisans who would call all Caldari murderers or sociopaths for wishing to defend a rightful claim.
I, for one, am glad that I have worked on behalf of the Ishukone Watch for many years, and will gladly suspend my commission with the Caldari Protectorate to participate in relief efforts. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
756
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Posted - 2013.03.25 20:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chief Executor Mens Reppola's wisdom and integrity are to be honored and serve as examples to all Caldari.
However, the State should not replace one centralized leader with another. The State was formed as a corporate meritocracy, it should be restored to it. ~Malcolm Khross
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Toluijin Chagangan
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
43
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Posted - 2013.03.25 20:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seems to me that his request is more a request to pass unhindered through federation space. Which, given the current political climate is the correct thing to do.
And that 'hide posts' option on this forum is a blessing from the spirits. No more Kim. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
233
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Posted - 2013.03.25 20:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Why should a Caldari ask a Gallente for permission to do anything on their home planet?
Vile submission.
We shouldn't have to, because the Gallente should respect our territory just as they would ask us to respect theirs. Unfortunately, that is not the situation, and, regardless of his methods, Mens Reppola is doing his duty to the State by seeking to aid our citizens.
==== If we had to choose a representative for the State Reppola would be a superb choice, but the CPD and the Executor position are a farce, and Heth should take it with him when he leaves. It is not the Caldari way for one group to install its members amongst the megacorporations and hold everyone at gunpoint to agree with the whims of one man. The will of the megacorps should be directing any leader we have, not the other way around. |
Valdezi
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
107
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Posted - 2013.03.25 21:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mens Reppola is one of the few men in the cluster worthy of my service. In a time in which jingoism is rife, he looks the the human cost of our actions. I am proud to work for the Ishukone Corporation. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
405
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Posted - 2013.03.25 21:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Some lead by power of rule, some lead by example. Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
728
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Posted - 2013.03.26 02:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
I left the State a long time ago to make my own way, and for much of that time couldn't have cared less about its dealings and politics.
Of course, then I went and got myself promoted, picked up some new duties, and that changed. So, as much as it disgusts me to do so, I find myself having to keep track of this nonsense, these childish going ons in the supposedly civilized regions of space. And, well... let's just say that I don't speak for just myself when I say that Heth needs to go.
Soon. Mynnna for CSM 8 |
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
58
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:By this move Mens Reppola just showed weakness by addressing those, who committed crime against the State and humanity.
Ah, of course, it is Ishukone which shows weakness by acknowledging reality, not Tibus Heth and his Provists that have bled the State dry for five years with an ill-advised war, and a reckless provocation of the Federation that resulted in an embarrassing defeat for his highest-profile bootlicker in the Caldari Navy, one which cost countless thousands of lives not only in space but also on the planet below.
The wisdom of the Provists, here for all to see. Our problem at Caldari Prime was not that the Navy was under the command of an old woman who had sacrificed her loyalty to the CEP to instead cling to relevance as the ***** of a loader operator, or placing thugs and untrained legbreakers in charge of keeping the peace on our homeworld, it was that we were not brutal enough to the Gallente. Sure if we had simply bathed Caldari Prime in even more blood, they would have come around to our way of thinking! We must burn the face of our world to save it!
Your kind disgust me, and the lot of you are a joke that has long since worn out its welcome. It is time for the Caldari to abandon this dangerous experiment with centralized government and populist insanity that has poisoned our State for these last five years.
Diana Kim wrote:As far as I know, at the moment majority of directors support Tibus Heth and his decisions. It is the Ishukone, that acts all the time as black sheep, staining dignity of the State.
Ishukone and Hyasyoda are the only two corporations that have displayed the least bit of sense these last five years, and even that has been shamefully underwhelming. If you want to know who has "stained the dignity" of the Caldari State, look at yourself. You kowtow to an ideologue who has done nothing but destroy what our ancestors built, who won our homeworld back but only at the cost of our very soul, and now we are on the brink of losing even that -- to be left with nothing but an endless sorrow for our lost brothers and sisters. The Winds howl and weep for their children and all we have thrown away.
Look not to the Gallente for who has poisoned our blood. It is the Hethists and their madness that have twisted the State into a shadow of its former self. Only by ending their reign and returning to our principles can we be saved. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
557
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Just ignore Kim. She's proven again and again through her overheated rhetoric that she's nothing more than a genocidal sociopath and xenophobe who would love nothing better than to wipe out the Gallente and Matari. It is indeed her kind of hardcore crazy that's brought the State to its current position not, the Federation. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
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Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
59
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Just ignore Kim. She's proven again and again through her overheated rhetoric that she's nothing more than a genocidal sociopath and xenophobe who would love nothing better than to wipe out the Gallente and Matari. It is indeed her kind of hardcore crazy that's brought the State to its current position not, the Federation.
Sadly, it is that belief -- that ignoring a problem will make it disappear -- which has led us to this state. Unlike the CEP, I will not stand idly by while our most sacred beliefs are torn asunder by pretenders, populists, and ideologues.
And I do not need a Matari to tell me what to do. Your kind have much to answer for when it comes to the blood that has been shed over these last five years. You opened the box, and what was inside has consumed the better natures of all four nations. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
382
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote: Ah, of course, it is Ishukone which shows weakness by acknowledging reality, not Tibus Heth and his Provists that have bled the State dry for five years with an ill-advised war, and a reckless provocation of the Federation that resulted in an embarrassing defeat for his highest-profile bootlicker in the Caldari Navy, one which cost countless thousands of lives not only in space but also on the planet below.
I would prefer to stay with those, who seek the truth rather than with those, who found it. Why this "reality" acknowledged by Ishukone, who has been black sheep in the State for several years, hasn't been accepted by majority of corporations? Maybe something is really wrong with this reality? Or maybe it is just a poor excuse for Ishukone to act against the State, rather than unite with the State and act as One to fulfill national goals? As for the events, happened above Caldari Prime, it wasn't our provocation at all. Caldari officers and Admiral herself acted as it was required to stop the conflict by any means necessary. The provocation itself was mastered by gallenteans, who sent troops on Home Planet, forcing the fleet to take action. And when the fleet was in most vulnerable position for the planet, they strike.
Svetlana Scarlet wrote: The wisdom of the Provists, here for all to see. Our problem at Caldari Prime was not that the Navy was under the command of an old woman who had sacrificed her loyalty to the CEP to instead cling to relevance as the ***** of a loader operator, or placing thugs and untrained legbreakers in charge of keeping the peace on our homeworld, it was that we were not brutal enough to the Gallente. Sure if we had simply bathed Caldari Prime in even more blood, they would have come around to our way of thinking! We must burn the face of our world to save it!
What is this I don't even
Svetlana Scarlet wrote: Your kind disgust me, and the lot of you are a joke that has long since worn out its welcome. It is time for the Caldari to abandon this dangerous experiment with centralized government and populist insanity that has poisoned our State for these last five years.
Are you out of arguments already to start personal attacks? I will give you a hint: thinking and analyzing the situation is a greater merit, than mindlessly raging and insulting those, who do not accept your "ultimate truth".
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:If you want to know who has "stained the dignity" of the Caldari State, look at yourself. Instead of looking at myself, I'd better look at you. At first, I feel disgust. Then I just laugh.
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:It is the Hethists and their madness that have twisted the State into a shadow of its former self. Only by ending their reign and returning to our principles can we be saved. So far "hethists" brought the State to glory, raised it from knees and made to stand tall against gallentean threats. In both victories and defeat State has shown dignity and resolve to stand no matter what. But, of course, I am not going to stop you from kissing some gallentes and licking their boots, if you think this will bring salvation to you. Until you really start to hurt the State, this is not of my concern, really. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
729
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Until you really start to hurt the State, this is not of my concern, really.
Be careful what you ask for. You may just get it. Mynnna for CSM 8 |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
383
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Until you really start to hurt the State, this is not of my concern, really. Be careful what you ask for. You may just get it. The State has numerous enemies, and the Federation itself train many of capsuleers to throw at us. Getting one more enemy won't shift the balance in any way.
Although I would like to avoid it, since it is my job to get rid of enemies, and if I can get rid of them without actually firing a weapon, it is a greater victory than simply destroying them.
Unfortunately, taking into account her attitude, I doubt that just words will change anything. If it is her initial plan, it will be inevitable.
Only the future will reveal what will happen. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
625
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
You were there, Kim-haani, we haven't EARNED pride. Getting aid through to the civilians on Caldari Prime is our job and if asking the Federation for permission to pass through their territory is what it takes to get those supplies through, then that is what we should be prepared to do.
I've heard you give impassioned speeches about doing "whatever it takes to get the job done" in the past - and agreed with you! Well now you know that "Whatever it takes" isn't always valour. Sometimes it's humility.
Do you have what it takes to get this job done? I do. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
243
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: I would prefer to stay with those, who seek the truth rather than with those, who found it. Why this "reality" acknowledged by Ishukone, who has been black sheep in the State for several years, hasn't been accepted by majority of corporations? Maybe something is really wrong with this reality? Or maybe it is just a poor excuse for Ishukone to act against the State, rather than unite with the State and act as One to fulfill national goals?
You seem to overestimate the homogeneity of the State. Ishukone is not some Black Sheep. There have long been three philosophical power blocs in the State (Practicals, Liberals and Patriots), and Hyasyoda has come out to support Ishukone's actions. What has happened, though, is Heth has installed his minions into the megacorporations to bully them into compliance, and it seems only Ishukone has the balls not to take that kind of crap, by openly defying the man who would try to be a dictator.
Beyond that, Ishukone is not acting against the state, by trying to AID Caldari. You don;t seem to understand that not fighting is not the same thing as surrender. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
384
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:You were there, Kim-haani, we haven't EARNED pride. But we haven't lost it either. We stood there to fight for what is matter. And they have payed for what they did. Only a couple of their ships have survived this. It was one of their supercarriers that run from the battle when started to break, leaving other carriers and dreadnoughts behind to be slaughtered. Usual gallentean behaviour.
And now Ishukone by their actions betray all those, who died standing in defense of Caldari Prime. We didn't bow to gallente. Ishukone did.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Getting aid through to the civilians on Caldari Prime is our job and if asking the Federation for permission to pass through their territory is what it takes to get those supplies through, then that is what we should be prepared to do.
I've heard you give impassioned speeches about doing "whatever it takes to get the job done" in the past - and agreed with you! Well now you know that "Whatever it takes" isn't always valour. Sometimes it's humility.
Do you have what it takes to get this job done? I do. As I stated before, there are numerous ways to get this job done. Sometimes we have to choose between what is easy and what is right.
Xindi Kraid wrote:What has happened, though, is Heth has installed his minions into the megacorporations to bully them into compliance, and it seems only Ishukone has the balls not to take that kind of crap, by openly defying the man who would try to be a dictator. Even if it was true, I would always prefer to get a dictator who will care about welfare and pride of the nation, than eating Ishukone crap. |
Arista Shahni
Real Simple Construction
6
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maybe I'm confused or find it illogical that a living Caldari citizen would be better than a dead one.
"I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?" |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
243
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Posted - 2013.03.26 08:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm sorry Kim, but I believe your world-view is far too limited and you lack the vision to understand.
Heth doesn't seem to care about the welfare of the State, and pride is worthless to the dead. Ishukone does care, but you can't seem to allow yourself to accept that truth because the only thing you understand is attack, attack, attack.
Have you heard the saying, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"? Your only asset is a hammer named combat. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
384
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Posted - 2013.03.26 09:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:I'm sorry Kim, but I believe your world-view is far too limited and you lack the vision to understand.
Heth doesn't seem to care about the welfare of the State, and pride is worthless to the dead. Ishukone does care, but you can't seem to allow yourself to accept that truth because the only thing you understand is attack, attack, attack. You are talking about me like I am your daughter, but I definitely not. You have no idea who I am, what I understand and how I view the world.
By making such assumptions you simply show yourself as being completely incompetent in discussions, and are merely wasting my time.
On other hand, this kind of talk in person could lead to immediate fist-to-nose action, and if it is what you seek, you can better come to my quarters in station, when I am not in flight. However, I want to warn you. If you think that heavy complexion is your advantage, it is not.
Xindi Kraid wrote:Have you heard the saying, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"? Your only asset is a hammer named combat. For all my life I was being trained and prepared for combat. What do you expect me to be? A housemaid? |
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