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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Iam Widdershins
project nemesis
790
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Posted - 2013.03.27 20:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Viribus wrote:Current bonus is an effective 50% bonus to DPS
New bonus is a 50% flat bonus to damage
And it loses a gun
Do the math
Current bonus is actually a 60% bonus to DPS, not 50%. (1 / (1 - 0.075*5)) = (1 / (1 - 0.375)) = 1 / 0.625 = 1.6 Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
507
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:My concerns with these changes, which are by-and-large pretty good, is the absolute slap in the face given to the Omen Navy Issue.
Currently it has a -7.5 rate of fire bonus and 5 turrets, giving it the equivalent damage of 8 turrets with the cap usage of 4. After these changes it will have the equivalent damage of 6 turrets with the same cap usage, gaining only an optimal range increase in compensation -- one that it must share with the already-popular Zealot.
Additional speed notwithstanding, this just doesn't feel like a great change to me. Sure, it has drones over the Zealot, but the Zealot was already popular over the Nomen when it had 40 meters of dronebay and only 4% less gun damage; when it gains only 10 meters of dronebay and the Zealot outguns it by 39% with the same optimal bonus, I don't think this is going to change much.
Nor do I think that "we will deal with the Zealot in a future balance pass" is a very good excuse for this. I can't think why anyone would complain that the Zealot isn't a very decently balanced ship.
I was expecting to see something along the lines of "We think the Omen Navy Issue is a great example of a fairly solid navy cruiser to begin with, so we just gave it a tad bit of speed and tweaked its hitpoints a little leaving its function largely intact." That's something that I would be interested in flying in the future and would expect to see flying around.
I forgot the ONI already has 7.5 rof%/level, so losing a gun and going up to 10% damage/level is not the best trade |
Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
271
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
I am really looking forward to flying that Vexor, looks beautiful and should feel like a proper drone boat. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance 24eme Legion Etrangere
94
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:14:00 -
[64] - Quote
omen navy getting less turret damage than it already HAS. and less hitpoints than its RIVAL THE STABBER FLEET in every category. and the stabber fleet is untouched? seruiosly
UNACCEPTABLE. this makes no sense that the top of the line amarr navy cruiser has LESS ARMOR THAN ITS RIVAL. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
669
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:My concerns with these changes, which are by-and-large pretty good, is the absolute slap in the face given to the Omen Navy Issue.
Currently it has a -7.5 rate of fire bonus and 5 turrets, giving it the equivalent damage of 8 turrets with the cap usage of 4. After these changes it will have the equivalent damage of 6 turrets with the same cap usage, gaining only an optimal range increase in compensation -- one that it must share with the already-popular Zealot.
Additional speed notwithstanding, this just doesn't feel like a great change to me. Sure, it has drones over the Zealot, but the Zealot was already popular over the Nomen when it had 40 meters of dronebay and only 4% less gun damage; when it gains only 10 meters of dronebay and the Zealot outguns it by 39% with the same optimal bonus, I don't think this is going to change much.
Nor do I think that "we will deal with the Zealot in a future balance pass" is a very good excuse for this. I can't think why anyone would complain that the Zealot isn't a very decently balanced ship.
I was expecting to see something along the lines of "We think the Omen Navy Issue is a great example of a fairly solid navy cruiser to begin with, so we just gave it a tad bit of speed and tweaked its hitpoints a little leaving its function largely intact." That's something that I would be interested in flying in the future and would expect to see flying around.
With this in mind, I would like to see the omen remain similar to as it is now as well. I haven't flown it much, but keeping it different from the zealot should be important. |
Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
36
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Minmatar really are getting nerfed to ****. I'm dreading when hacs get the rebalancing treatment (slower vagas?). Minmatar are getting slower, and will be hurt by the nerf to Tracking Enhancers as well.
The whole point of Minmatar is to be fast glass cannons and it seems like they are becoming slow, poorly tanked brawlers.
SFI is also used somewhat effectively as a heavy tackler in ahacs, which will almost become non-existent now due to the nerf to armor.
What Minmatar are supposed to be as a race needs to be re-looked at by Fozzy, because all I have seen is bad things coming to Minmatar ships. Every Minmatar ships re-balance is a dissapointment.... "Insert Philosophical Statement Here" |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
669
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:18:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:BTW, Fozzie, did you mean for the Navy Osprey to only have four launchers? That would give it less dps than the T1 caracal, even when using kinetic missiles...
Considering 260m/s and 6 mids, seems quite fair. Kiting potential of the boat will be crazy.
Bosquit wrote:Minmatar really are getting nerfed to ****. I'm dreading when hacs get the rebalancing treatment (slower vagas?). Minmatar are getting slower, and will be hurt by the nerf to Tracking Enhancers as well.
The whole point of Minmatar is to be fast glass cannons and it seems like they are becoming slow, poorly tanked brawlers.
SFI is also used somewhat effectively as a heavy tackler in ahacs, which will almost become non-existent now due to the nerf to armor.
What Minmatar are supposed to be as a race needs to be re-looked at by Fozzy, because all I have seen is bad things coming to Minmatar ships. Every Minmatar ships re-balance is a dissapointment....
This is my concern as well. The SFI was one of the best AHAC tacklers, nerfing its mass and decreasing it's armor is not the best way to reinforce this role. Is it possible to reconsider this Fozzie?
(I was thinking it should even be faster than it currently is...) |
Recoil IV
Not Another One Man Corp
99
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
when can we expect battleships,navy battleship,pirate battleships and t2 battleships to be reworked?they need that too. |
BadAssMcKill
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
197
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
Exequror Navy Issue looks really good though I feel like it could use a little bit more grid Starships were meant to fly~ |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1102
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:omen navy getting less turret damage than it already HAS. and less hitpoints than its RIVAL THE STABBER FLEET in every category. and the stabber fleet is untouched? seruiosly
UNACCEPTABLE. this makes no sense that the top of the line amarr navy cruiser has LESS ARMOR THAN ITS RIVAL.
The Navy Aug is the new Amarr brawler:
6.75 effective Turrets 2 medium Neuts AB Medium cap booster Scram 1600 mm plate EANM x 2 DC HS x 2 TE Trimarks x 3
The current NOmen is not going to be able to compete with that. They HAD to go Sniper with it. |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
150
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:omen navy getting less turret damage than it already HAS. and less hitpoints than its RIVAL THE STABBER FLEET in every category. and the stabber fleet is untouched? seruiosly
UNACCEPTABLE. this makes no sense that the top of the line amarr navy cruiser has LESS ARMOR THAN ITS RIVAL. The Navy Aug is the new Amarr brawler: 6.75 effective Turrets 2 medium Neuts AB Medium cap booster Scram 1600 mm plate EANM x 2 DC HS x 2 TE Trimarks x 3 The current NOmen is not going to be able to compete with that. They HAD to go Sniper with it.
Any yet it can only fit focused medium beams. Lol @ no mids brawler. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1614
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
i thought the idea of faction ships was to have a straight improvement to the T1 counterpart (if there is one). Best example is probably the navy apoc. I am not sure if i like the idea that the faction variants now get a distinct role to the T1 hull across the board. a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
36
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:i thought the idea of faction ships was to have a straight improvement to the T1 counterpart (if there is one). Best example is probably the navy apoc. I am not sure if i like the idea that the faction variants now get a distinct role to the T1 hull across the board.
Sort of agree with that as well, doesn't really make sense giving them weird roles that are so drastically different from their T1 variants. They are just supposed to be slightly superior ships that the Factions use, not completely different. "Insert Philosophical Statement Here" |
BadFC
BadFleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
Omen Navy Issue shouldn't lose that extra low slot, because it's an armor tanking ship... derp.
Armor ships are supposed to get face raped and walk away, so making them faster, while leaving everything else would be helpful, but i get the idea you're going to make the ships faster, and then buff tracking on other ships/modules, so they are easier to hit them.
In the end, I just really don't want to lose that extra low slot on the Omen... |
BadFC
BadFleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:i thought the idea of faction ships was to have a straight improvement to the T1 counterpart (if there is one). Best example is probably the navy apoc. I am not sure if i like the idea that the faction variants now get a distinct role to the T1 hull across the board.
This! |
Arteriamus
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:One more thread today before I start the Easter vacation (Iceland is awesome).
And it's Navy Cruiser time! We're going to be doing a comprehensive pass on the Navy Cruisers as well as the already
Caracal Navy Issue: Finds a niche as the heavier version of the Caracal, more suited to brawling than kiting. Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire 5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile explosion radius
New launcher group? faster firing light launcher for cruisers? |
Del Vikus
Gradient Electus Matari
36
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:43:00 -
[77] - Quote
Really confused at your choices for the Minmatar ships.
Giving bonuses to other ships = YAY!
Nerfing the one good Navy ship = ???
This is one of those instances where you actually don't need to take a step back, you know?
Also, the decision to "redeem" the split weapon bonuses on the Scythe has resulted in...two weapon bonuses? You know that when a hull only receives two hardcoded bonuses, and when both of those bonuses are for different weapons, you realize that is still "split", right?
Am I missing something, or did you mean something else besides "redeem"? Because I don't see a whole lot of that happening here. |
Vrat Briner
Steel Lion Inc
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:43:00 -
[78] - Quote
Quote:Exequror Navy Issue: Keeping the same role for this one, as a high damage blasterboat with the two damage bonuses. Adding an extra highslot and turret increases damage even further. It's fast and hard hitting but the lack of the Thorax's tracking bonus hurts. Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire Slot layout: 5 H(+1), 4 M(+1), 6 L(+1), 5(+1) turrets Fittings: 830(+70) PWG, 340(+60) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1800(+428) / 1950(+474) / 2550(+863) Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(-200) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+125) / 490s(-1.25) / 3(+0.2) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255(+7) / 0.4 (-0.037) / 11280000(-260,000) / 6.25s(-0.74) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(+5) / 25(+5) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km / 325(+3) / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 18(+3) Magnetometric Signature radius: 110(+2) Cargo capacity: 465 (+200)
+1 turret, +1 med, +1 low and +70 PG and +60 CPU? Seriously? At the moment you only can fit Ions if you're going to armour tank (or neutrons, if you're going shild tank it) and you do not have any free resources left at all, and you're adding ONE MORE turret and med slot with only 70 PG and 60 CPU??? Again, seriously? Are we supposed to fit electron blasters on it? |
BadFC
BadFleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:44:00 -
[79] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:My concerns with these changes, which are by-and-large pretty good, is the absolute slap in the face given to the Omen Navy Issue.
I was expecting to see something along the lines of "We think the Omen Navy Issue is a great example of a fairly solid navy cruiser to begin with, so we just gave it a tad bit of speed and tweaked its hitpoints a little leaving its function largely intact." That's something that I would be interested in flying in the future and would expect to see flying around..
This is exactly how I feel. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
672
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:47:00 -
[80] - Quote
Arteriamus wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:One more thread today before I start the Easter vacation (Iceland is awesome).
And it's Navy Cruiser time! We're going to be doing a comprehensive pass on the Navy Cruisers as well as the already
Caracal Navy Issue: Finds a niche as the heavier version of the Caracal, more suited to brawling than kiting. Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire 5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile explosion radius
New launcher group? faster firing light launcher for cruisers?
Assault Launchers have been renamed to Rapid Light Launchers since around this time last year. ;)
Del Vikus wrote:
Also, the decision to "redeem" the split weapon bonuses on the Scythe has resulted in...two weapon bonuses? You know that when a hull only receives two hardcoded bonuses, and when both of those bonuses are for different weapons, you realize that is still "split", right?
Am I missing something, or did you mean something else besides "redeem"? Because I don't see a whole lot of that happening here.
this is an underlying concern for me as well. Perhaps just keep it a missile platform. |
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Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
40
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:49:00 -
[81] - Quote
Del Vikus wrote:Really confused at your choices for the Minmatar ships.
Giving bonuses to other ships = YAY!
Nerfing the one good Navy ship = ???
This is one of those instances where you actually don't need to take a step back, you know?
Also, the decision to "redeem" the split weapon bonuses on the Scythe has resulted in...two weapon bonuses? You know that when a hull only receives two hardcoded bonuses, and when both of those bonuses are for different weapons, you realize that is still "split", right?
Am I missing something, or did you mean something else besides "redeem"? Because I don't see a whole lot of that happening here.
Split guns are bad and will always be bad. True it offers more in terms of fitting variability, but it also severely gimps the hull itself. Most other ships will get 2 bonuses, while the Scythe is essentially getting one, which makes no sense.
I expected ships like the Scythe to fill a hole between T2 logistics, and T1 logistics. Offering just a small bonus that would make sense for the increase in price. I mean don't the factions ever use logistics ships? "Insert Philosophical Statement Here" |
Francis Podkill
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:49:00 -
[82] - Quote
This is awesome. Now its time to show the faction frigs/cruisers (sansha/blood/guristas) some much-deserved love. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3231
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
I can't help but feel like people are looking at the optimal bonus like it's a non-bonus because it doesn't affect the pretty EFT number. It's one of the most powerful bonuses in the game - especially on a laser ship. I'm super excited by the new NOmen, and if it's as bad as you claim then we will see them adjust it some in a polish pass.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
672
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:54:00 -
[84] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I can't help but feel like people are looking at the optimal bonus like it's a non-bonus because it doesn't affect the pretty EFT number. It's one of the most powerful bonuses in the game - especially on a laser ship. I'm super excited by the new NOmen, and if it's as bad as you claim then we will see them adjust it some in a polish pass.
-Liang
Well the issue is keeping a distinction between NOmen and Zealot. Everyone loves optimal bonuses, however having 2 extremely similar boats is not that useful. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3231
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:56:00 -
[85] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I can't help but feel like people are looking at the optimal bonus like it's a non-bonus because it doesn't affect the pretty EFT number. It's one of the most powerful bonuses in the game - especially on a laser ship. I'm super excited by the new NOmen, and if it's as bad as you claim then we will see them adjust it some in a polish pass.
-Liang Well the issue is keeping a distinction between NOmen and Zealot. Everyone loves optimal bonuses, however having 2 extremely similar boats is not that useful.
They aren't extremely similar.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1176
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:06:00 -
[86] - Quote
ENI +1. Quite a bit more than I would have asked for. The 50 ENIs I have in storage are being dusted of now! VNI +1. Big, fat Tristan.
Both have been buffed more than I would have thought. |
Herren Varno
Perkone Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
The SFI was a well balanced and great ship to fly with clear strengths and weaknesses - that has already been stealth nerfed by the cruiser buff. Now a nerf to sig, armour and agility, and we get...a shield increase for that?!
We don't need another shield brawler/fail kiter. Sig tanking is supposed to be a cornerstone of Minmatar defence and the SFI is the epitome of this for cruiser sized ships. These nerfs make no sense at all. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
673
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I can't help but feel like people are looking at the optimal bonus like it's a non-bonus because it doesn't affect the pretty EFT number. It's one of the most powerful bonuses in the game - especially on a laser ship. I'm super excited by the new NOmen, and if it's as bad as you claim then we will see them adjust it some in a polish pass.
-Liang Well the issue is keeping a distinction between NOmen and Zealot. Everyone loves optimal bonuses, however having 2 extremely similar boats is not that useful. They aren't extremely similar. -Liang
Quote:Omen Navy Issue: Turning this ship into a much more mobile ship with an optimal bonus, much like a giant Slicer. Cruiser skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range Slot layout: 5(-1) H, 3 M, 7 L, 4(-1) turrets Fittings: 965 PWG, 335 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1800(-416) / 2250(-463) / 2250(-428) Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(-500s) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1650(+25) / 520s(+55.9s) / 3.17(-0.3) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 265(+73) / 0.43(-0.11) / 10850000(-800,000) / 6.47s(-2.25) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+25) / 50(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km(+12.5) / 320(+27) / 7(-1) Sensor strength: 17(+1) Radar Signature radius: 100(-12) Cargo capacity: 400(+150)
Zealot Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage per level, 5% to medium energy turret rate of fire per level 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range, 5% to medium energy turret capacitor use Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 7 L, 5 turrets Fittings: 1180 PWG, 320 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 984 / 2250 /1688 Shield Recharge Time: 1250s Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500 / 335s Mobility (max velocity / align time): 209 / 9.7s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution ): 55km / 306/ Sensor strength: 13 Radar Signature radius: 125 Cargo capacity: 240
aside from velocity and cap recharge rate, these are extremely similar... In this respect, the NOmen would just replace a zealot in fleets, so I really hope either the NOmen is left distinct from the zealot, or the zealot gets changed to compensate for the NOmen doing it's job better. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1176
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:09:00 -
[89] - Quote
Bosquit wrote:Sort of agree with that as well, doesn't really make sense giving them weird roles that are so drastically different from their T1 variants. They are just supposed to be slightly superior ships that the Factions use, not completely different. The trend is to give every single ship something different w.r.t bonus and performance. No ship is simply a better version of another ship anymore. So, these bonuses make perfect sense. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
507
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:15:00 -
[90] - Quote
The scythe needs a 3rd bonus, otherwise its the same issue split weapon systems have always had.
I suggest 3% sig reduction/level |
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