Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
673
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:The scythe needs a 3rd bonus, otherwise its the same issue split weapon systems have always had.
I suggest 3% sig reduction/level
already has 90 signature radius, that's almost destroyer level |
Rina Kondur
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:20:00 -
[92] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:aside from velocity and cap recharge rate, these are extremely similar... In this respect, the NOmen would just replace a zealot in fleets, so I really hope either the NOmen is left distinct from the zealot, or the zealot gets changed to compensate for the NOmen doing it's job better.
I guess it's okay to completely disregard the Zealot has more fitting along with an extra turret and other bonuses. What's wrong if it's somewhat similar? It's going be a great low barrier entry hull for people looking to try AHACs like Zealots without requiring the huge amount of ISK and skill points needed to do so.
Not every hull has to be great for solo. I love seeing some of these more suited for fleets, such as the Omen Navy. I don't agree with adding more drones to it and removing a turret, but that's not our call. I'd rather see the drones completely removed and the turret added back in.
As the changes stand now I see it becoming the choice for people with links and implants for solo. A fast cruiser with two flights of drones. These things will have ECM drones out the ass if you see them in solo/small gang. They'll just jam and kite you all day. More of that is not helping solo/small gang stuff. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3235
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:26:00 -
[93] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote: aside from velocity and cap recharge rate, these are extremely similar... In this respect, the NOmen would just replace a zealot in fleets, so I really hope either the NOmen is left distinct from the zealot, or the zealot gets changed to compensate for the NOmen doing it's job better.
The difference between the two are staggering: - The NOmen trades 38% gun DPS (way more if you include overheat) for a drone bay. - The NOmen trades tank for speed and mobility. - The NOmen is seriously weak on capacitor.
I don't see how the NOmen is really stepping on the Zealot's toes here.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Sieg oder Valhalla
The Advent of Faith
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
What did the Navy Omen Issue ever do to you, Fozzie? There's no reason to go and **** it like that. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3235
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:27:00 -
[95] - Quote
Rina Kondur wrote:I don't agree with adding more drones to it and removing a turret, but that's not our call. I'd rather see the drones completely removed and the turret added back in.
I'd really like to see it keep the 25m^3 drone bay and increase the fittings space some. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
64
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:28:00 -
[96] - Quote
Why are you guys complaining about scythe!!!!
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
Do you know what this means?
Thats 8 effective turrets for you.
Also it will go 2400+ without any boosts, snakes just with MWD.
It will be like a Cyna without falloff bonus....and you guys are complaining??
Oh....you can also fit it as a missile ship if you want it that way too!!! |
Pesadel0
the muppets DARKNESS.
67
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:31:00 -
[97] - Quote
Deerin wrote:Why are you guys complaining about scythe!!!!
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
Do you know what this means?
Thats 8 effective turrets for you.
Also it will go 2400+ without any boosts, snakes just with MWD.
It will be like a Cyna without falloff bonus....and you guys are complaining??
Oh....you can also fit it as a missile ship if you want it that way too!!!
I think what we are complaining is that they nerfed the *** out of the SFI for no aparent reason.. |
Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
41
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:31:00 -
[98] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Stuff
The Zealot has 5 turrets, better fitting, and T2 resists, it will not be replaced by the N-Omen.
The N-Omen has 1 less gun and a utility high and a flight of drones. It will either be a cruiser that can participate in AHAC fleets with Amarr Cruiser IV or a small gang DPS ship.
There is a bit of overlap but they do not fill the same slot. I think this is a good thing for the N-Omen.
[ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting! |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
674
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:33:00 -
[99] - Quote
Rina Kondur wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:aside from velocity and cap recharge rate, these are extremely similar... In this respect, the NOmen would just replace a zealot in fleets, so I really hope either the NOmen is left distinct from the zealot, or the zealot gets changed to compensate for the NOmen doing it's job better. I guess it's okay to completely disregard the Zealot has more fitting along with an extra turret and other bonuses. What's wrong if it's somewhat similar? It's going be a great low barrier entry hull for people looking to try AHACs like Zealots without requiring the huge amount of ISK and skill points needed to do so. Not every hull has to be great for solo. I love seeing some of these more suited for fleets, such as the Omen Navy. I don't agree with adding more drones to it and removing a turret, but that's not our call. I'd rather see the drones completely removed and the turret added back in. As the changes stand now I see it becoming the choice for people with links and implants for solo. A fast cruiser with two flights of drones. These things will have ECM drones out the ass if you see them in solo/small gang. They'll just jam and kite you all day. More of that is not helping solo/small gang stuff.
the other bonus is gets is capacitor use of guns, and I already said it has better cap. the problem with it being similar is that the more expensive one is not worth getting if the cheaper one does everything the expensive one does at almost the exact same efficiency.
I will drop the topic though, since I barely fly these ships myself, you guys probably know more regarding them than I do. |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
502
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Bosquit wrote:Sort of agree with that as well, doesn't really make sense giving them weird roles that are so drastically different from their T1 variants. They are just supposed to be slightly superior ships that the Factions use, not completely different. The trend is to give every single ship something different w.r.t bonus and performance. No ship is simply a better version of another ship anymore. So, these bonuses make perfect sense.
Well said, X Gal.
An optimal range bonus for the Nomen adds much needed change to the Meta for solo, small gang, and larger fleet doctrines, since right now its just a more expensive, slightly better Maller. The loss in DPS makes sense in the context of "Currently ships with good range do too much dmg" changes ie: the Drake. Though, it still feels odd that the raw gun DPS is the least out of all T1 Amarr cruisers now. Maybe more drone bandwidth? *Shrugs*
Having less armour than the SFI is a bit silly as well.
Anyways Fozzie, it sounds like you guys are going to be doing some serious changes to the game Meta and I hope you guys go through with some of the more drastic changes despite player protests. Mixing up the game meta is great because of the explosion of PVP that happens as groups test whats good and develop counters of their own.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
|
Rynnik
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
71
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:35:00 -
[101] - Quote
We waited so long for a 3 mid Amarr laser frig and finally got one with the Tormentor and Executioner. I was really hoping for a 4 mid Amarr laser cruiser with this balance pass. I understood why you left the Omen and Maller at 3 mids. But now we are looking at 5 Amarr laser cruisers (Omen, Navy Omen, Maller, Navy Aug, Zealot) all with exactly the same 5-3-7 slot layout! Please consider changing this.
Looking at the options we REALLY don't want to open the can of worms that a kiting shield NOmen would be with 4 mids, and being as shield tanking would negate one of the Navy Augs bonuses immediately it seems like the best candidate. Lose a low slot and gain a mid or if you are really afraid of the obvious laser, dual-neut, full tackle + cap booster monster that would follow then drop one of the utility highs to a mid. Either way it would be a real shame to go through all this balancing and leave all 5 laser cruisers with identical slots - please think about switching something around to get to a 4 mid count. |
Quontor Zarrkos
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:38:00 -
[102] - Quote
I really agree with you here on the fact that all the amarr laser cruisers now have the same slot layout! I'm also eagerly waiting for the phantasm rebalance as it's the only laser ship with a 'native' shield tank. And a shield tanked kiting NOmen/phantasm would actually be really cool imo, it would be a monster, but it'd be cool as a kiting ship after the TE nerf that hits the minie kiting ships so hard. Scorch is awesome regardless, fozzie will probably hit that as well with his nerfbat, or buff long range guns/ammo as right now the long range ammo for shortrange guns is all overpowered as hell. |
BadFC
BadFleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote: Anyways Fozzie, it sounds like you guys are going to be doing some serious changes to the game Meta and I hope you guys go through with some of the more drastic changes despite player protests.
Yeah, because moar tears are legendary for their use of t1 faction cruisers... derp. |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:43:00 -
[104] - Quote
I havent had a chance to read the entire thread, but shouldn't the Navy Caracal get a -5% bonus to explosion radius? Or do I have the equation variables upside down? |
Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
41
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:44:00 -
[105] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Bosquit wrote:Sort of agree with that as well, doesn't really make sense giving them weird roles that are so drastically different from their T1 variants. They are just supposed to be slightly superior ships that the Factions use, not completely different. The trend is to give every single ship something different w.r.t bonus and performance. No ship is simply a better version of another ship anymore. So, these bonuses make perfect sense. Well said, X Gal. An optimal range bonus for the Nomen adds much needed change to the Meta for solo, small gang, and larger fleet doctrines, since right now its just a more expensive, slightly better Maller. The loss in DPS makes sense in the context of "Currently ships with good range do too much dmg" changes ie: the Drake. Though, it still feels odd that the raw gun DPS is the least out of all T1 Amarr cruisers now. Maybe more drone bandwidth? *Shrugs* Having less armour than the SFI is a bit silly as well. Anyways Fozzie, it sounds like you guys are going to be doing some serious changes to the game Meta and I hope you guys go through with some of the more drastic changes despite player protests. Mixing up the game meta is great because of the explosion of PVP that happens as groups test whats good and develop counters of their own.
Totally don't agree with either of you. The Navy faction ships are not supposed to be some unique line of ships. They are supposed to represent a counter to Capsuleers ships by adding improvements that the Navy's have added, essentially making them slightly better versions of their T1 counterparts.
I mean what are we gonna get when we get the Faction Battlecruisers, Blaster Drakes, Missile Hurricanes. There aren't supposed to be completely different ships, there supposed to be something that represents an improvement from T1 but not as specialized or good as T2.
When they went and made T1 logistics, they should have committed to making Faction Logistics as well, or they should change the hulls in my opinion. "Insert Philosophical Statement Here" |
Maegor Stark
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:50:00 -
[106] - Quote
wait,
Quote:5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile explosion radius
that's supposed to be a -5, right? Since explosion radius decreases damage against small targets? |
Psigno Jenny
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:54:00 -
[107] - Quote
Escobar Slim III wrote:FIRST.
I love you.
|
Iam Widdershins
project nemesis
793
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:56:00 -
[108] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I can't help but feel like people are looking at the optimal bonus like it's a non-bonus because it doesn't affect the pretty EFT number. It's one of the most powerful bonuses in the game - especially on a laser ship. I'm super excited by the new NOmen, and if it's as bad as you claim then we will see them adjust it some in a polish pass.
-Liang Well the issue is keeping a distinction between NOmen and Zealot. Everyone loves optimal bonuses, however having 2 extremely similar boats is not that useful. They aren't extremely similar. -Liang
You're right, one of them does nearly 40% more damage with guns and has EHP, and the other one goes kind of fast and has a flight of drones that are pretty useless for an optimal bonused ship.
I didn't think anyone would seriously be concerned that the Zealot would be obsoleted by the changes to the Nomen. Quite the opposite, I think the Nomen is very nearly useless on release because the Zealot already exists. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
BadFC
BadFleet
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:03:00 -
[109] - Quote
Bosquit wrote:
When they went and made T1 logistics, they should have committed to making Faction Logistics as well, or they should change the hulls in my opinion.
Sorta.
But I think the t1 logistics bonuses should have gone to the faction versions, instead of the basic version that just anyone can manufacture...
In my mind, the progression should be a legitimate t1 > faction>t2.
It's beside the point, but it might be interesting if FW got some sort of 'enlistment' bonuses that made these ships a little better when used in the faction warfare part of the game... |
BadFC
BadFleet
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I can't help but feel like people are looking at the optimal bonus like it's a non-bonus because it doesn't affect the pretty EFT number. It's one of the most powerful bonuses in the game - especially on a laser ship. I'm super excited by the new NOmen, and if it's as bad as you claim then we will see them adjust it some in a polish pass.
-Liang Well the issue is keeping a distinction between NOmen and Zealot. Everyone loves optimal bonuses, however having 2 extremely similar boats is not that useful. They aren't extremely similar. -Liang You're right, one of them does nearly 40% more damage with guns and has EHP, and the other one goes kind of fast and has a flight of drones that are pretty useless for an optimal bonused ship. I didn't think anyone would seriously be concerned that the Zealot would be obsoleted by the changes to the Nomen. Quite the opposite, I think the Nomen is very nearly useless on release because the Zealot already exists.
I agree. |
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1178
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:07:00 -
[111] - Quote
Bosquit wrote: Totally don't agree with either of you. The Navy faction ships are not supposed to be some unique line of ships. They are supposed to represent a counter to Capsuleers ships by adding improvements that the Navy's have added, essentially making them slightly better versions of their T1 counterparts.
Example: Comets are better overall frigates, but they are slower than the atron. They can't rep as much as the incursus. They don't have as many drones as the tristan. None of these ships has the same set of bonuses.
|
Anaphylacti
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:14:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Scythe Fleet Issue: This is my attempt to redeem the Minmatar split weapons tradition. Instead of forcing both weapon systems it gives both as viable choices.
This worked so well for the Naga...
R.I.P. Torp Naga the best ship that never was. |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:18:00 -
[113] - Quote
exqueror navy issue is lacking a lot of armour here its not able to structure tank quite like an frigate can like the enyo. Navy omen i am confused about its role if you look at the zealot they are very similar same optimal range bonus.... Also the sensor strength creep is too much 21 is better than a drake........ 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
580
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:21:00 -
[114] - Quote
Anaphylacti wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Scythe Fleet Issue: This is my attempt to redeem the Minmatar split weapons tradition. Instead of forcing both weapon systems it gives both as viable choices.
This worked so well for the Naga... R.I.P. Torp Naga the best ship that never was.
Not this **** again. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
139
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:25:00 -
[115] - Quote
I like the focus on extreme combat doctrines for that faction and it basically feels like one faction attack cruiser and one faction combat cruiser.
As for specifics
ENI is slower but seems to be most agile will need to see how that plays out. Feels a little low on powergrid to fit say ions or 200mm rails + moderate armour tank like 800mm plate, am almost certain to be using a LSE.
Navy Vexor, really nasty brawler and I like the focus on drone bonuses but losing the equivalent of 4.25 turrets for a single heavy drone seems a bit harsh and even with the speed and tracking bonus I have concerns as to how effectively even mediums can apply damage to a fast cruiser when it is not webbed and scrammed. Hopefully more changes to drones are coming, but I still would prefer four unbonused turret hardpoints as back up.
|
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
211
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Adding myself to 'whaaaaat is going on with the Stabber?' If the mass was outlier in your formulas and needed brought in line, I might understand. But an armor reduction, mass increase, and shield increase looks scatter-shot. What's your intent for the hull? Paired with the TE opt/fall reduction, you're looking at a tackler/brawler that's now slower and has to get closer to effect DPS. Minmatar have speed and low sig radius. Both of which are going the other direction on this hull.
Then there's the Scythe. The buffs are awesome. But the split weapons system is still split. Even if your intent is either/or, it's a hull with two opposing bonuses. On top of the fact that it has absolutely zero to do with its logi predecessor. The Republic Fleet looked at the old girl and said "Well, logistics is nice, but what we need is more guns"? Echoing the 'I thought the faction was just supposed to be a slightly fancier version of the T1?' confusion.
The old fluff text calls it a mini-Typhoon. Most are pretty sure you're going to turn the Typhoon into the Minmatar missile BS. So if the Scythe is going down the combat road instead of logi, start the trend now. Missiles, and I'd push for a shield boost bonus. falls in line with the new Cyclone.
Really, I think we'd all benefit from some more discussion of design intent with these two. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Talocan United
157
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:28:00 -
[117] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote: Also the sensor strength creep is too much 21 is better than a drake........
Sensor creep is a good thing. Ecm is broken as hell so anything to help even it out a bit is a good thing. Especially when he is adding drone flights to everything. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
103
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:29:00 -
[118] - Quote
Very excited to see the birth of the first true drone boat (dual bonused drones), but I really think you ought to consider higher bonused medium drones over heavies IF this ship is to be a cruiser-killer. However, if the design intent is to fly heavies (and the Ishtar will get reworked for bonuses more sentry-oriented, leaving the "cruiser-killer" moniker to the Vexor), then I think the bonuses are appropriate for that.
I'd love to see more boats become true drone boats, and there's some great ideas floating around these forums about both ship changes and the long-overdue drone ones.
Also, I fear the NOmen will supplant or even replace the Zealot for the premier long-ranged laser platform, but I'm sure you guys ave considered that knowing what you know and having the T2 HAC crystal ball handy.
Overall, very good work, but maybe figure something else out with the dual type damage bonus on the SFI and perhaps a little more differentiation with the ONI and the Caracal. |
Labceh
Little Willies
12
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:29:00 -
[119] - Quote
It's been mentioned several times already however I feel the need to say it once more. As of late, Minmatar ships seem to have been getting the short end of the stick. What are your visions with the Minmatar line-up? I'm really confused with the direction you guys are taking and would like some clarification.
When I joined the game, Minmatar ships were fast, fought in fall-off and possessed very good damage despite having much weaker tanks. Recently, with the latest patches, their align time have been on par (or sometimes even worse) as the other ships in their category (I mean really.. the omen aligns faster than the scythe?). They deal less damage and have a terribly hard time to apply any of it; they are still unable to brawl with other ship types within their category since they simply lack the tank.
The scythe will be receiving awful bonuses where only one can be useful at a time. It can equip projectiles, it can shoot missiles, it can shield tank, it can armour tank but it sure as hell isn't good at any of them. Period. The stabber deals with the same problem.
FIX IT.
Labceh |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1178
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:30:00 -
[120] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote:exqueror navy issue is lacking a lot of armour here its not able to structure tank quite like an frigate can like the enyo ENI: 782 dps without drones, not overheated. 1000 dps overheated with drones, and stupidfast (3 km/s overheated). It's going to die in a fire quite a bit, but each death will be glorious. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |