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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1229
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:03:00 -
[301] - Quote
Just look at this thread and start counting how much support your proposal has and compare it to any number of other suggestions.
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
164
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:14:00 -
[302] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: All I ask is that we have just one quality pvp mechanic.
Look into FW plexes lately? Great quality pvp mechanic. In fact, you yourself use them all the time to get fights. Great debate. Thanks everybody for participating. We're done here! Let's move on to another topic. Would you like to restate your request? Thats like saying ccp developed top astroid belts as a pvp mechanic. Edit: sorry XG but threads like this will continue to pop up as long as fw sov is a carebear race. CCP might as well fix it.
threads like this its you who keeps sh!tting them up and only you making them pop up.... also were are all these people that upvoted you on your proposal i dont see any of them defending it here or in the other 20 threads youve sh!tted up GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
164
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:16:00 -
[303] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
Look at my sig for the proposal with 13 and then in that you will see the link with the proposal before the forums changed. There will you see the 12 upvotes from the people posting.
that was 3 years ago things was different why dont you get that?
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:17:00 -
[304] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:The rest of your post is not really intelligible, but thats ok. I don't care how popular you think the proposal is. I'll make it easy for you. Your notifications proposal has received less support than almost every other proposal out there. Then it should be easy to provide links to 5 other specific assembly hall fw proposals in the last 3 years that had/have over 25 upvotes. Until you post them, I think I will believe my own eyes, rather than your posts. BTW: I am only asking for 5 so you can use your fingers to help you count.
X Gallentius wrote:Just look at this thread and start counting how much support your proposal has and compare it to any number of other suggestions.
There seems to be 2 patterns here.
1) I make a claim. You ask for links to back it up. I give the links.
2) You make a claim. I ask for links to back it up. You just keep talking with no links to back up what you claim. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1229
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:26:00 -
[305] - Quote
The pattern is clear in this thread. Timer rollbacks have near universal support. Proposed notifications are nearly universally rejected.
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Gorski Car
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
58
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Posted - 2013.04.08 22:55:00 -
[306] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:http://frabz.com/3lq3
The hero FW needs now. Keep farming farmer pigs. |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
244
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:02:00 -
[307] - Quote
Cearain wrote: There seems to be 2 patterns here.
1) I make a claim. You ask for links to back it up. I give the links.
2) You make a claim. I ask for links to back it up. You just keep talking with no links to back up what you claim.
well, at least he's got alts to like his unsupported claims. sort of like ogb for forums.
nerf alt likes!
PS - i'd like to see a notification system of sorts. |
Ak'athra J'ador
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:07:00 -
[308] - Quote
I'm in FW space, but not in FW and I think a notification system makes sense. In fact, it may make sense elsewhere in EVE as part of the solution for that SOV system overhaul... |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1232
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:10:00 -
[309] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:well, at least he's got alts to like his unsupported claims. sort of like ogb for forums. nerf alt likes! PS - i'd like to see a notification system of sorts. That's one. Who's next?
Seriously, I (quickly, could have missed somebody) went through this thread and didn't find anybody else in support of notifications. There was universal support for timer rollbacks and many more posters agreeing with other suggestions than the notifications.
Edit: Two now. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 00:35:00 -
[310] - Quote
We already have a notification system in FW.
The FW page tells you if a system is contected. Also the outpost themselves shout for help thats why they appear on your overview for easy warpage.....
Timer roll backs just make sense.
oh bugger! I just realised I agreed with a frog I need to go scrub those nasty thoughts out of my head now!! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 02:14:00 -
[311] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate
Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve.
Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
313
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 08:43:00 -
[312] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers.
Cearain - notifications won't change that.
Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri'
2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example)
PvP is now all blob warfare.
So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well.
and guess what....
After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification'
The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex.
WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight.
Your system will provide the opposite effect of what you intend.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
165
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:23:00 -
[313] - Quote
The huge blob is not the problem i see this is were im at with the notification idea :-
Say for instance im running a plex solo, in the surrounding systems theres 3-4 pilots all solo and in no communication with each other with the notification system set to say 4 jumps, now all of these pilots get the same notification and rush there for a nice fight (in the perfect counter ship) and unintentionally theyve all turned up in system together and turned into a mini blob, Now i know in my t1 frig i cant fight all 4 at once maybe 1-2 and id try and fight but not 4 therefore id fly away and safe up.
So cearain ur proposal that makes it a pvp mechanic could actually be flawed GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
165
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:31:00 -
[314] - Quote
Cearain wrote:A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers.
Maybe just maybe the pvper isnt bothered about the LP from a plex and just uses it for fights and then just moves on after hes had his fight, he would be active in pvp but not have high VP.. GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
829
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:41:00 -
[315] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well.
Not just the other militias, you have to remember any tom dique or harry can roll an alt and plop it into FW, which means any random active gang in low sec (or even from anywhere) can just look on their alt and be lead directly to the FW gang - this would be a terrible TERRIBLE situation - esp for bunker busting!
Definitely a chance to break FW even more, need to be careful with this people! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
220
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:59:00 -
[316] - Quote
In case of Muad, that would mean everyone in lowsec would come running, hoping to catch something shiny ;) |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:34:00 -
[317] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Cearain - notifications won't change that. Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well. and guess what.... After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification' The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex. WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight. Your system will provide the opposite effect of what you intend.
Everybody is missing the point. The current sov system is decided by PVPers. This is a fact. If I want to take a plex and the other sides wants to defend it, there will be a fight. The problem is people don't care about defending 95% of the systems. This PVP only happens in home systems where the incentive to defend exists because the defenders want to continue to dock there.
If I learn about a plexer in a system I don't care about, why should I care? I know he's probably a cloaky/stabbed plexer, so there won't be a fight. Why bother? Even if I do chase him out of the plex and "win", I now have to spend up to 2x more time running the button and then will most likely get crap LP. The problem is there is no point to defend meaningless systems.
This FW sov system is actually almost the perfect sov system. It is so much better than 0.0. If nobody defends the system for more than 12 hours a day, it will easily fall. This is perfect, we should not be asking for this to change. What we should be asking for is a reason to defend systems that we don't care if we can dock in or not. Oh yeah, we also need to make sure we don't break the never ending concept of FW such that we create a natural pendulum that swings back and forth such that the winning side cannot ever truly win. I don't see how we can both ensure the winner never truly wins and provide an incentive for defending every system, as these two ideas seem to be mutually exclusive. . |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:59:00 -
[318] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Cearain - notifications won't change that. Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well.
Ok I would just ask that you at least acknowledge that you have a directly contradictory position from many others that object to the proposal.
You are claiming too many people will respond to the notifications. While many others are claiming no one will respond.
But lets look at your scenario. XG is in an atron. You said he was in a novice plex and a blob comes. Is the entire blob in t1 frigates so they can enter the plex? If not XG may get a fight right there in his atron.
Now lets say that they are all in frigates that can enter the plex. Well then XG can ship up to something like a dessie or cruiser and run a larger plex. (I know this may be tough with the bad station lockout mechanic, but even with them he should have a non-fw ssytem within a few jumps that he can keep ships in) He will then get a fight.
The other thing he can do is communicate with others and instead of blobbing up spread out. Is the entire group following him? If so then others in his miltia can run plexes right next door. If they don't spread out and keep several pilots on one pilot they will lose the plexing war. But now when they lose it will be because they do not have good enough pvpers to match up even odds with the enemy. In other words the best pvpers win.
IbanezLaney wrote:[ and guess what....
After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification'
The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex.
WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight.
Actually that intel is a reason why pvpers will stay in the plex and run them. They know that the enemy will be notified of their whereabouts and will likely respond. All the militias have people who like to pvp. As much as people like to think their own miltia is the only one with pvpers that view is simply not true.
The best sov militias will be the ones that can best spread out and use use their pilots. And have the best pvpers. If every pilot in one militia requires a blob to come and dislodge him from a plex then either the other militia will need to have several times the number of active pilots or they will lose.
At first there will be somewhat of an exodus from militia as the plex farmers leave. But over time I think the number of pvpers will keep growing. In fact this will be such a great pvp venue the number of people playing eve as a whole will grow. Eve will no longer be the boring game where it takes forever to get a bit of pvp action. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:17:00 -
[319] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:
Everybody is missing the point. The current sov system is decided by PVPers. This is a fact. If I want to take a plex and the other sides wants to defend it, there will be a fight. The problem is people don't care about defending 95% of the systems.
We agree on the bolded part. But we disagree as to why they don't care. I think they don't care because the game is no fun and horrible. If the game was fun and involved pvp then people woudl care. But if you go in these systems and plex there are very few enemies that will even know you are there let alone fight you. Since they don't know you are there you are looking at a boring night of orbitting buttons. So my view is to make the game a good game and fun and people will care.
You on the other hand seem to focus on consequences. You take the approach that well if we give or take something then they will do it even if it is boring. Station lockouts is a good example. They are why corps are requiring people to waste their eve time orbitting a button everyday. If a game is so boring people don't want to play it, then forcing people to play the boring game will not improve it.
After inferno the isk consequences where huge. But many pvpers still didn't want to get their alts all orbiting buttons. Why? Because eve is just a game and people have better things to do with their time than play a boring game like that.
Make it a game where you sign on and get tons of exciting pvp action, instead of rabbit alt plexing. And then people will care about winning.
Andre Vauban wrote: This PVP only happens in home systems where the incentive to defend exists because the defenders want to continue to dock there.
If I learn about a plexer in a system I don't care about, why should I care? I know he's probably a cloaky/stabbed plexer, so there won't be a fight. Why bother? Even if I do chase him out of the plex and "win", I now have to spend up to 2x more time running the button and then will most likely get crap LP. The problem is there is no point to defend meaningless systems.
This FW sov system is actually almost the perfect sov system. It is so much better than 0.0. If nobody defends the system for more than 12 hours a day, it will easily fall. This is perfect, we should not be asking for this to change. What we should be asking for is a reason to defend systems that we don't care if we can dock in or not. Oh yeah, we also need to make sure we don't break the never ending concept of FW such that we create a natural pendulum that swings back and forth such that the winning side cannot ever truly win. I don't see how we can both ensure the winner never truly wins and provide an incentive for defending every system, as these two ideas seem to be mutually exclusive.
No its not perfect. In fact fw sov is so bad most people don't care about it. Its allot like null sec sov where people get in blobs in a select few systems and the rest of zone is just farmed. FW can offer an alternative to blob null sec, where people are spread out fighting throughout the warzone. But ccp has to decide to implement the changes. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
833
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:34:00 -
[320] - Quote
Funny how all the benefits of FW seem to be enjoyed by those not in it, or those that farm with a low skilled alt and all the bad things and downsides are avoided while the serious FW players that want to play and enjoy a balanced feature have to deal with them!
addicted to failure?
JOIN THE ARMY FACTION WAR http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:54:00 -
[321] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Funny how all the benefits of FW seem to be enjoyed by those not in it, or those that farm with a low skilled alt and all the bad things and downsides are avoided while the serious FW players that want to play and enjoy a balanced feature have ot deal with them!
I am getting allot more fights as a neutral fighting in plexes than I ever did in faction war.
GCC is gone!
I have 10s of billions of isk in ships and fittings throughout the 2 warzones that I can access regardless of what the farmers do. Being able to reship quickly is a huge advantage.
I do not have anyone in corp telling me I need to run a defensive plex everyday. (not that my old corp did that, but I understand a gallente corp is doing that.)
I don't get lp but I already have allot of it. Since its so depreciated I really don't know whatto buy with it. If I did want more of it I have alts for that.
From a pvpers perspective there is no reason to join faction war. The timer rollbacks won't make being in militia (as opposed to a neutral pvping in plexes) any better either. I am looking forward to that change. Becasue right now I finding that the number of plexers in fw that stay and fight is rapidly dropping compared to the number of neutrals that use plexes as the new top belt.
Now notifciations or plexes, or a map that indicated where people were running them..... that would be a reason for a pvper to join fw. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:59:00 -
[322] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well. Not just the other militias, you have to remember any tom dique or harry can roll an alt and plop it into FW, which means any random active gang in low sec (or even from anywhere) can just look on their alt and be lead directly to the FW gang - this would be a terrible TERRIBLE situation - esp for bunker busting! Definitely a chance to break FW even more, need to be careful with this people!
It would be great for plexes, to have more people fighting in them. If its bad for bunker busting, then don't give notifications on bunker busting. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1239
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:00:00 -
[323] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Cearain - notifications won't change that. Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well. and guess what.... After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification' The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex. WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight. Your system will provide the opposite effect of what you intend. XG warps into plex all alone.... and then has blob waiting on other side of gate, in safe spot, or camping in-gate to system with arty thrashers waiting for your blob. So, in one sense it's good for pvp because we don't have to scout around looking for trouble. In another sense, it's bad because we'll all just sit in station playing DUST until we get a notification that a plex is under attack. Then we'll undock and go at it.
However, what I don't think will happen is me (one of the more occupancy warfare centric players out there) caring whether or not some alt in the opposing faction is farming in Uphallant. Maybe Aldranette - if it is highly contested. I'll run over there and push him out, but I'm still not going to sit on the button after he leave just because there's a notification system.
I think Cearain puts too much hope in people using their gaming time to chase alts in far off systems. I don't think he'll do it. I don't think anybody in favor of a Notification System will do it. I think (I could be wrong) that they all hope SOMEBODY ELSE will do it for them. Maybe somebody will, but probably not. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1239
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:13:00 -
[324] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote: This FW sov system is actually almost the perfect sov system. It is so much better than 0.0. If nobody defends the system for more than 12 hours a day, it will easily fall. This is perfect, we should not be asking for this to change. What we should be asking for is a reason to defend systems that we don't care if we can dock in or not.
I think the Tier system is supposed to provide the motivation. However, it's the Tier system that provides the motivation for alts to come out in force.
I don't think there's a great answer for this other than bending the rules to provide real consequences to those who aren't willing to defend the plex they are running (Timer rollback, or perhaps amplified timer rollback (2x pace).), or reducing payouts for plexes so that there is still a decent income for us to replace ships but not enough for others to farm. What I've experiences on the Gallente side is that the limit is somewhere above Tier 1 payouts and just slightly below Tier 2. (Tier 3 = farmers, definitely)
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:58:00 -
[325] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:XG warps into plex all alone.... and then has blob waiting on other side of gate, in safe spot, or camping in-gate to system with arty thrashers waiting for your blob. So, in one sense it's good for pvp because we don't have to scout around looking for trouble. In another sense, it's bad because we'll all just sit in station playing DUST until we get a notification that a plex is under attack. Then we'll undock and go at it.
First, thanks for using a more civil tone. I will try to do the same.
I think you see that just because you know someone is in a plex - even if you know their name, ship type, number of skill points, and mothers maiden name, there can still be surprises and reasons for larger fleets to scout.
I think there would be lots of plexes being run pretty much everywhere and all the time.
But lets assume I am wrong, and no plexes are being run. At any time anyone could get the pvp ball rolling by simply opening a plex.
When I was in fw I too did some sov stuff. But if I killed someone in a plex and didn't see that anyone else in system was coming in, I would leave before the timer ran. There was a much greater chance that I would find a fight by moving on rather than sitting there.
However, if the enemy knew I was there capping a plex, I might be more inclined to stay and actually capture the plex. After all if I leave then I may leave right before someone was going to come in.
X Gallentius wrote: However, what I don't think will happen is me (one of the more occupancy warfare centric players out there) caring whether or not some alt in the opposing faction is farming in Uphallant. Maybe Aldranette - if it is highly contested. I'll run over there and push him out, but I'm still not going to sit on the button after he leave just because there's a notification system.
I think Cearain puts too much hope in people using their gaming time to chase alts in far off systems. I don't think he'll do it. I don't think anybody in favor of a Notification System will do it. I think (I could be wrong) that they all hope SOMEBODY ELSE will do it for them. Maybe somebody will, but probably not.
I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. That is actually, often allot of systems. I think militia players interested in sov would spread out and prevent plexes being taken by rabbits. The idea would be that you need to react fast before plexes are taken. I also think it would be a very fluid and dynamic system - to say the least. More likely it would be a chaotic mass of explosions. So many explosions, that players would actually need that lp from plexes they manage to capture just to keep their head above water.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 17:43:00 -
[326] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. That is actually, often allot of systems. I think militia players interested in sov would spread out and prevent plexes being taken by rabbits. The idea would be that you need to react fast before plexes are taken. I also think it would be a very fluid and dynamic system - to say the least. More likely it would be a chaotic mass of explosions. So many explosions, that players would actually need that lp from plexes they manage to capture just to keep their head above water.
We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. We know when a plex is being run. When we see its a farmer, we ignore them (unless it is Nisuwa or Notoras, in which case we blob them). If it looks like the plex is being run because the person wants a fight, we try to not blob them to take the fight.
The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time).
Maybe I just have a warped sense of what FW is. FW for me and most of QCATS is simply the best place to find small gang combat and make some isk on the side when there isn't a planned fleet or operation. As long as we can get PVP and enough LP to cover our losses at the same time and continue to dock, we're mostly happy. We've also made quite a large number of friends in Gallente Militia that we just couldn't shoot, so we stay. As an example, Loren Gallen posted in local something like "It's weird to see you guys not blue" the other night. Right after he posted that, a few flashy reds uncloaked on the gate and we quickly ganked them. After that several of us were said "Oh my God, did we just gank Loren? Check the killmails, I hope we didn't just gank Loren". It's hard to actively try and kill people in Eve with whom you've literally been flying with for 5+ years. . |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1241
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Posted - 2013.04.09 18:04:00 -
[327] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time). This pretty much nails the "objection" to the notification system. To us, it seems like it will miss on achieving it's stated purpose of "turning backwater system plex warfare into a pvp mechanic."
Another option to "make people care about the entire theater" is to remove several constellations nobody cares about from the FW arena.
Gallente/Caldari FW View as Constellations
The first six constellations in the following list could easily be removed from the map and nobody would care, tbh. 1. Fislepsisnes 2. Otasawa 3. Ieyama 4. Serthoulde 5. Obrey 6. Urpiken 7. Kurala (I think one Caldari corporation likes Okkamon) 8. Woencke (a Caldari corporation actually lives in Loes right now, so this is where the list ends) |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
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Posted - 2013.04.09 19:30:00 -
[328] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:
I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. That is actually, often allot of systems. I think militia players interested in sov would spread out and prevent plexes being taken by rabbits. The idea would be that you need to react fast before plexes are taken. I also think it would be a very fluid and dynamic system - to say the least. More likely it would be a chaotic mass of explosions. So many explosions, that players would actually need that lp from plexes they manage to capture just to keep their head above water.
We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. We know when a plex is being run. When we see its a farmer, we ignore them (unless it is Nisuwa or Notoras, in which case we blob them). If it looks like the plex is being run because the person wants a fight, we try to not blob them to take the fight. The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time).
Believe it or not we are thinking on the same track. In terms of man hours wasted for pvpers versus farmers we want changes that cost the farmers more man hours and saves the pvpers. This is really what I beleive must happen for sov to be fixed. Notifications would make it less efficient for the rabbits and more efficient for the pvpers.
What you guys do with alts could be done without them, with notifications. I'll admit I am not a big fan of playing multiple characters in a game at the same time - it really ruins the immersion and turns it into work for me. That might be a problem unique to me. But wouldn't you ever just rather run with your pvp character in a gang and fight in this war? Focus on other things besides your alts screen? If you had notifications you could use those alts for something else or focus all your time on your pvp character.
BTW Amarr does the same thing (or at least they used to) in and around sisiede. They don't need to dock in sisiede since egg is right there but its a good way to find fights in this current mechanic. Its a good system under these mechanics but it doesn't reach very far. Those 5 or so pilots could each be covering a seperate constellation.
Why prevent the farmers from winning space? So you can win it. Sure eve is a sandbox and fw is too so you can make what you want of it. But really the game is to win space. Thats why caldari and gallente got medals from ccp and no other action in fw warranted a medal. The game is supposed to be about winning sov.
Just a question. If you get tired of chasing rabbits and dplexing why don't you just move to a low sec system outside fw? That is what amarr did. The area orriginally wasn't really populated but the pvp moved to where they moved. The same would happen for you guys. Personally I would have left fw long ago if my corp chose to stay in fw space and required that I do defensive plexing to counter the rabbits.
Andre Vauban wrote: .... We've also made quite a large number of friends in Gallente Militia that we just couldn't shoot, so we stay. As an example, Loren Gallen posted in local something like "It's weird to see you guys not blue" the other night. Right after he posted that, a few flashy reds uncloaked on the gate and we quickly ganked them. After that several of us were said "Oh my God, did we just gank Loren? Check the killmails, I hope we didn't just gank Loren". It's hard to actively try and kill people in Eve with whom you've literally been flying with for 5+ years.
Yeah I agree. This is the worst part of leaving fw. I avoid allot of the systems my old corpmates are from. I, of course, don't mind if they attack me (and I will of course defend myself) but I don't feel entirely comfortable shooting them either.
If I had to do it all over again, with these current mechanics, I would have pvped in plexes as a neutral and never joined faction war. Thats why I tell new players interested in pvp not to join faction war.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
361
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Posted - 2013.04.09 20:57:00 -
[329] - Quote
Attacking former corp mates is fine as long as you are both aware that it's not a personal attack.
When I was in the rebels we used to attack each other all the time. Even now I'll happy engage any of my former corps in pvp because they know I'm doing it for a GF. And of course they know how crap I am and will happy engage me back That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
166
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Posted - 2013.04.09 22:21:00 -
[330] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:The huge blob is not the problem i see, this is were im at with the notification idea :- Say for instance im running a plex solo, in the surrounding systems theres 3-4 pilots all solo and in no communication with each other with the notification system set to say 4 jumps, now all of these pilots get the same notification and rush there for a nice fight (in the perfect counter ship) and unintentionally theyve all turned up in system together and turned into a mini blob, Now i know in my t1 frig/dessie/cruiser i cant fight all 4 at once maybe 1-2 and id try and fight but not 4 therefore id fly away and safe up. So Cearain ur proposal that makes it a pvp mechanic could actually be flawed Forcing someone out is not PvP or having a fun time its just boring for all and even more time wasted than if theyd stumbled across me on there own
so come on then cearain enlighten us how to change this situation i have been @ work all day and expected an answer when i got bk GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
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