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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
104
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Posted - 2013.04.06 11:04:00 -
[241] - Quote
Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
197
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Posted - 2013.04.06 11:07:00 -
[242] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D
You must realize how lot of people are actually happy (including some of the greatest FW players (as in ForumWarrior). The unhappy 50-100 people (most of them never post) are 50-100 paying customers, who are negligible to the 1000-2000 paying customers with a noobsec main and a farmatar alt who are extremely happy. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.06 12:40:00 -
[243] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D You must realize how lot of people are actually happy (including some of the greatest FW players (as in ForumWarrior). The unhappy 50-100 people (most of them never post) are 50-100 paying customers, who are negligible to the 1000-2000 paying customers with a noobsec main and a farmatar alt who are extremely happy.
I think there is an important distinction between Faction war as a whole (and generally low sec pvp) and Faction war sov in particular.
Faction war as a whole and the pvp you can get in low sec I think people are generally are glad for great improvements ccp made. Myself included. The changes to the rats in plexes have made pvping in them better and the changes to gcc has greatly increased the targets.
But when it comes to fw sov there is a divide between a handfull of systems that are major bases for militias and the other 90% of systems. There has no doubt been large fights and much pvp in the handfull of base systems. But if you not interested in the larger fleet fights of those base systems and look to the other 90% well thats very disappointing.
Its the vast majority of people who have given up caring about sov in the other 90% of systems because the mechanics are horrible. They are horrible because the way to win involves horribly boring and tedious gameplay instead of challenging and exciting game play. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.06 12:57:00 -
[244] - Quote
Davion Falcon wrote:Cearain wrote:We have now heard from Moe Larry Curly and Shemp.
But what is interesting is how the argument, against revealing where the farmers are, keeps shifting.
At first the gang of four has been arguing that notifications will effect nothing. It won't make sov war involve any more of a pvp mechanic than it is now.
But now the arguments are doing an about face. Curly now says it will make pvp too easy to find. Larry now says we already have so much pvp no one could possibly want more. Moe just apologizes. And Shemp admits he really doesn't mind that 90% of the warzone sov is determined by rabbits. Aren't you no longer in FW?
I have alts in fw.
I just took my pvp characters out because I can get more pvp without being blue to 1/3 of the players in plexes. Plus I get more pvp because i can dock/reship where I want without being forced to spend eve time rabbit plexing. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
560
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Posted - 2013.04.06 14:23:00 -
[245] - Quote
There is a pattern here. The sov rp'ers are all unhappy. All the pvp'ers i know consider this a growing golden age of pvp. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
562
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Posted - 2013.04.06 14:37:00 -
[246] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:There is a pattern here. The sov rp'ers are all unhappy. All the pvp'ers i know consider this a growing golden age of pvp. Says more about the quality of modern day PvP'ers if hunting/euthanizing stab monkeys is what gets them off ..
Must be said that the unlimited ISK/LP in FW has brought a certain laissez-faire attitude to the table so people no longer grind their teeth and bash their heads against walls when faction goes pop .. perhaps that is why PvP'ers are having a good time, lots of high value mails with only minimal tantrums .. just an observation. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.06 17:52:00 -
[247] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:There is a pattern here. The sov rp'ers are all unhappy. All the pvp'ers i know consider this a growing golden age of pvp.
I don't really rp. I fight for the faction that I am in, and don't awox or spy, but thats about it. I never really could get into the whole race backstory. You and xg are much more rpers with your constant gallente are better than squids schtick. Most people on the minmatar amarr front strike me as a bit more mature/sane than that.
To be clear, I am not saying that rpers are insane, but you guys seem to go beyond that. You seem to take the rp into real life. I have seen innumerable non-rp fw threads degenerate into you guys insulting eachother. Its pretty crazy actually. The rpers at least seem to understand that they are playing a fictional role, and don't make the insults personal.
I just think fixing the 90% of sov that is broken would make the game allot more fun. It would add depth/context to the otherwise meaningless pvp. And yes it would increase the amount of pvp involved in the sov war. If you don't care abotu the other 90% of the systems, and supposedly don't support the farmers, then I don't see why you are so against proposals to make the other 90% of system's sov determined by pvp. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1217
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Posted - 2013.04.06 18:29:00 -
[248] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Says more about the quality of modern day PvP'ers if hunting/euthanizing stab monkeys is what gets them off .. Point missed. The pvp'ers are making enough isk while fighting for plexes against real pvp'ers. Win/win for them.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
562
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Posted - 2013.04.06 19:28:00 -
[249] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:...Edit: And I think everybody cares that farmers are farming too much, but the first step is timer rollbacks - something that is universally accepted by everybody as a good idea that should be implemented. True, but as we are not even sure that CCP reads our goings on, making tons of demands/suggestions for changes is a way to position ourselves for when/if CCP notices .. at that point it becomes a negotiation and with CCP having the power of a god (being the developer), giving them a bunch of stuff to shake their head and scream NO! at allows them to feel like the mighty entity they are while still serving us something we want/need - a face-saving exercise basically. All we need do is make sure that the auto-run timer is placed front and center so that is the thing we end up getting.
Fake Edit: Oops, mightily dumb of me to spill the beans where the manipulation/negotiation target can read it! |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1217
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Posted - 2013.04.06 22:42:00 -
[250] - Quote
Well if they aren't reading it and you are upset enough about it, then I guess you should run for CSM or quit FW. |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.07 14:06:00 -
[251] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Says more about the quality of modern day PvP'ers if hunting/euthanizing stab monkeys is what gets them off .. Point missed. The pvp'ers are making enough isk while fighting for plexes against real pvp'ers. Win/win for them. Edit: And I think everybody cares that farmers are farming too much, but the first step is timer rollbacks - something that is universally accepted by everybody as a good idea that should be implemented.
While I am in favor of timer rollbacks and agree that it seems to be the most popular proposal right now. It is inaccurate to say that it is universally accepted by everyone.
Several people are not in favor of this change based on the arguments that "farmers gonna farm", and "stop whining" and "it won't really change anything"
If the person suggesting it is in fw you will also see arguments like "If you don't like fw why don't you quit"
If the person posting is in fw you will see the argument "you aren't even in fw."
Bottom line is ccp has to make up their mind whether they want fw sov to coninue to be a carebear race. If they decide they want to change it to a pvp mechanic, then they need to look at the reasons people have for or against proposals. They need to cut through the stupid arguments and look at the posts that actually make sense to reasonable people.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1217
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Posted - 2013.04.07 16:07:00 -
[252] - Quote
Cearain wrote: While I am in favor of timer rollbacks and agree that it seems to be the most popular proposal right now. It is inaccurate to say that it is universally accepted by everyone.
In statistics > 95% is considered "certain". Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is different from the numbers on "notification system" which is less than 10%.
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Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
421
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Posted - 2013.04.07 17:55:00 -
[253] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D You must realize how lot of people are actually happy (including some of the greatest FW players (as in ForumWarrior). The unhappy 50-100 people (most of them never post) are 50-100 paying customers, who are negligible to the 1000-2000 paying customers with a noobsec main and a farmatar alt who are extremely happy.
weird thing is that those same people still whine after ccp made almost all changes they wanted. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 19:53:00 -
[254] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: While I am in favor of timer rollbacks and agree that it seems to be the most popular proposal right now. It is inaccurate to say that it is universally accepted by everyone.
In statistics > 95% is considered "certain". Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is different from the numbers on "notification system" which is less than 10%.
Why am I not surprised your math is terrible.
25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Basically looking back at the threads when this proposal was made it was mainly just you, bad messenger, super chair, and veshta against it. Same 4 guys always so vocal against giving pvpers the tools they need to fight for plexes.
Anyway keep making up numbers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.07 20:03:00 -
[255] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:We have now heard from Moe Larry Curly and Shemp. But what is interesting is how the argument against revealing where the farmers are keeps shifting. At first the gang of four has been arguing that notifications will effect nothing. It won't make sov war involve any more of a pvp mechanic than it is now. But now the arguments are doing an about face. Curly now says it will make pvp too easy to find. Larry now says we already have so much pvp no one could possibly want more. Moe just apologizes. And Shemp admits he really doesn't mind that 90% of the warzone sov is determined by rabbits. .... Im mostly interested in which of the handful of possible events will start the pendulum swinging away from gallente in the gallente and caldari warzone. If this doesnt happen in the next 3-4 weeks, THEN i will accept something is broken, but using indicators that are exactly opposite to yours. As in, no gallente system is more than 60% contested, and their contested rates are falling. This indicates that caldari farmers are having little or no impact on the overall state of any system, even backwaters. Your wet dream. This will lead to a stagnant warzone which is the antitheses of the sov-light principal of FW. You want sov to be the pinnacle, its not, and no one outside some brain damaged roleplayers want it to be. Nullsec = Sov > PvP FW = PvP > Sov
You think that farmers are having no impact because the caldari are still losing? Is your reasoning is that farmers don't defensive plex because they don't make isk and therefore because the gallente are holding systems that must mean the farming isn't so bad?
If so that may be technically true about "farming" but the problem isn't so much "farmers" as it is "rabbits." Rabbits are fw plexers who run from all pvp because that is the most efficient way to plex. That is the main problem I see and that is even more rampant in defensive plexes.
The best indicator of whether fw sov is pvp is to look at the highest vp gainers for that day and then look at the killboard for the day they earned the highest amount of vp. The rest are just unreliable indicators. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1218
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Posted - 2013.04.07 21:03:00 -
[256] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:27:00 -
[257] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes.
Ill go with actual data instead of your claims.
Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex.
Great conclusion to reach. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
267
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Posted - 2013.04.08 00:20:00 -
[258] - Quote
People against notifications may be too busy actually playing the game and fighting instead of running after defenseless farmers and crying on the forums ?
Also, if farmers are so important, why isn't caldari militia crushing gallente militia ? |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:46:00 -
[259] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:People against notifications may be too busy actually playing the game and fighting instead of running after defenseless farmers and crying on the forums ?
Also, if farmers are so important, why isn't caldari militia crushing gallente militia ?
Because gallente/minmatar have as many or more rabbits as the caldari/amarr. Minmatar and Gallente have about 10,000 pilots the amarr caldari have just under 9000.
Anyway I am finding more and more of the people who actually fight in the plexes are in neither militia. Its just basically a replacement for the top belt. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1219
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Posted - 2013.04.08 00:48:00 -
[260] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes. Ill go with actual data instead of your claims. Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex. Great conclusion to reach. Would you care to link the post with 25 upvotes? I can't find it in this thread. Maybe it is in some other thread somewhere? In fact you are the ONLY person in this thread that I have seen in favor of notifications. I could be wrong. There might be one more person in favor (with everybody else opposed), but the actual data in this thread is clear. The community is opposed to notifications.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.08 00:49:00 -
[261] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes. Ill go with actual data instead of your claims. Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex. Great conclusion to reach. Would you care to link the post with 25 upvotes? I can't find it in this thread. Maybe it is in some other thread somewhere? In fact you are the ONLY person in this thread that I have seen in favor of notifications. I could be wrong. There might be one more person in favor (with everybody else opposed), but the actual data in this thread is clear. The community is opposed to notifications.
Check my sig and the thread that is linked in that thread. That gives the actual proposal. Its more reliable than your claim that 250 people are against the idea. it was mainly just you, bm, super chair and veshta. And you guys are still trying to argue against it with varying contradictory arguments like: "It won't effect pvp in plexes" "It will make pvp too easy to find" etc.
But anyway ccp needs to look at the reasons given. The only arguments against the idea is "farmers are gonna farm" or "your not even in fw" or "if you don't like fw then quit"
I think they have enough sense to draw a reasonable conclusion. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
162
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:00:00 -
[262] - Quote
yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:06:00 -
[263] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man.
Ans when that other guy proposed it was wen plexes spawned randomly and was pushed around he wa proposing to make the plexes easier to find so others could get there to pvp... but now we know were all plexes are there in all fw systems
The top vp gainers still avoid pvp.
However you are right that they added lots of lp to plexing. So now we have allot of people with alts in fw that don't care about the actual sov game but don't want their easy isk removed by making it an actual pvp game.
edit that is why I don't really care what the current crop of players say. The only questions are whether ccp wants to make a sov a pvp game. And what are the reasons pro and con for timer rollback and notifications. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
162
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:09:00 -
[264] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man.
Ans when that other guy proposed it was wen plexes spawned randomly and was pushed around he wa proposing to make the plexes easier to find so others could get there to pvp... but now we know were all plexes are there in all fw systems The top vp gainers still avoid pvp. However you are right that they added lots of lp to plexing. So now we have allot of people with alts in fw that don't care about the actual sov game but don't want their easy isk removed by making it an actual pvp game. edit that is why I don't really care what the current crop of players say. The only questions are whether ccp wants to make a sov a pvp game. And what are the reasons pro and con for timer rollback and notifications.
hold on a minute dont u openly admit to having fw alts for isk is that u not really contradicitng urself im confused i mean your dogpiling the situation but also moaning about it
And yes there is alot of alts but the bulk of the militia that are interested in fights know exactly were to go to find them GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:16:00 -
[265] - Quote
The way i see it is really how many of those people that backed your proposal are still in militia today? including yourself. The people who your arguing with have stayed in militia through thick and thin and are mainly happy with the current iteration of fw but would like to see timer rollbacks as the next big step. These guys really know what feature will work and what wont.
as iv said before the only way to make sov realy a pvp game is do away with plexes and add sbus and tcus like in null sec but that would blow big time GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:19:00 -
[266] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man.
Ans when that other guy proposed it was wen plexes spawned randomly and was pushed around he wa proposing to make the plexes easier to find so others could get there to pvp... but now we know were all plexes are there in all fw systems The top vp gainers still avoid pvp. However you are right that they added lots of lp to plexing. So now we have allot of people with alts in fw that don't care about the actual sov game but don't want their easy isk removed by making it an actual pvp game. edit that is why I don't really care what the current crop of players say. The only questions are whether ccp wants to make a sov a pvp game. And what are the reasons pro and con for timer rollback and notifications. hold on a minute dont u openly admit to having fw alts for isk is that u not really contradicitng urself im confused i mean your dogpiling the situation but also moaning about it .....
Why shouldn't I cash in on broken mechanics like the rest? At least I point out its broken. But really I have enough isk to last me a long time so I rarely use the alts anymore. I do however use the plexes for fights. The plex mechanics always were a good venue for pvp thats the main reasons I mourn the fact that ccp doesn't fix fw sov. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:25:00 -
[267] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I do however use the plexes for fights. The plex mechanics always were a good venue for pvp
But according to you theres no pvp in plexes just stabbed farmer alts and you need a notification to find pvp
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:36:00 -
[268] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:The way i see it is really how many of those people that backed your proposal are still in militia today? including yourself. The people who your arguing with have stayed in militia through thick and thin and are mainly happy with the current iteration of fw but would like to see timer rollbacks as the next big step. These guys really know what feature will work and what wont.
as iv said before the only way to make sov realy a pvp game is do away with plexes and add sbus and tcus like in null sec but that would blow big time
No you really don't know much history of fw or the views of the players posting on these forums.
XG basically said fw was fixed after they did away with the downtime spawn mechanic.
Super chair pushed for better pay for plexing in the form of ships.
Bad messenger basically said it was fine even before the downtime spawn change.
And veshta can hardly be described was more disappointed in the changes than I was.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:39:00 -
[269] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote: I do however use the plexes for fights. The plex mechanics always were a good venue for pvp But according to you theres no pvp in plexes just stabbed farmer alts and you need a notification to find pvp
Again you are wrong. My problem is that the most efficient way to plex is to avoid pvp.
If we had a notification and timer rollback that would change. You would see the killboards of the people who got the most vp that day and you would see they are good pvpers instead of stabbed rabbits.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1219
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Posted - 2013.04.08 03:08:00 -
[270] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Check my sig and the thread that is linked in that thread. . Edit: Misread. But I'm glad there are 13 people who gave you a thumbs up a long time ago. |
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