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Fineberg
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:17:00 -
[1]
What I find very unique and addicting about Eve is the "leveling" system. Not having to be online to make your character learn skills is a great plus for online gamers, especially for those who can't commit too much daily time to Eve or even for the lazy. I have a character who is over 2 years old, but the character has only 350,000 some odd skill points because I cancelled my account when I went to college. This summer, I reactivated my account and started a new character who has over 2.6 million skill points now. I do regret not staying with the game in order to have a character with over 30 million sp like many of you do.
What are your thoughts of the chances newbies have in making their mark in Eve with all the elite competition? I know skill points don't mean everything, but it usually comes hand-in-hand with Isk and some PvP experience.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:20:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Fineberg What I find very unique and addicting about Eve is the "leveling" system. Not having to be online to make your character learn skills is a great plus for online gamers, especially for those who can't commit too much daily time to Eve or even for the lazy. I have a character who is over 2 years old, but the character has only 350,000 some odd skill points because I cancelled my account when I went to college. This summer, I reactivated my account and started a new character who has over 2.6 million skill points now. I do regret not staying with the game in order to have a character with over 30 million sp like many of you do.
What are your thoughts of the chances newbies have in making their mark in Eve with all the elite competition? I know skill points don't mean everything, but it usually comes hand-in-hand with Isk and some PvP experience.
No more than in any other MMORPG, and in fact probably less.
I came into EVE about 10 months ago. No skills, no donations from anybody, I mined veldspar on my first day to buy my bantam.
I now have nearly 5 billion ISK (possibly more after my next few sales) in assets.
Newbies are at no disadvantage, at all, ESPECIALLY in the realm of ISK. -- Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:25:00 -
[3]
In my Honest opinion, you are at a massive disadvantage and will allways be locked in an uphill struggle to try to keep up with people who are impossibly better than you.
Even specilisation will not help that much as most of the 30 mill sper's have multiple accounts with every aspect of eve specilised.
Sorry to say but competeing with the wealthy and highly skilled is nearly impossible unless you have strong friends or find a way to make isk fast.
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BlackHawk177
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: BlackHawk177 on 04/09/2005 05:36:36
Originally by: Gamer4liff In my Honest opinion, you are at a massive disadvantage and will allways be locked in an uphill struggle to try to keep up with people who are impossibly better than you.
Even specilisation will not help that much as most of the 30 mill sper's have multiple accounts with every aspect of eve specilised.
Sorry to say but competeing with the wealthy and highly skilled is nearly impossible unless you have strong friends or find a way to make isk fast.
Not really. Just b/c they're wealthy or highly skilled, doesn't mean you can't compete. I know people with 14mil sp's that are specialized in flying HAC's and they go out on a regular basis and kill bs pilots with 20-30mil sp's. It's not the amount of skillpoints you have, it's how well you know how to use what you have at your disposal.
Like for example, I can take a Wolf out, and go and take on multiple cruiser's piloted by pilots with more sp's then me. I can go out and do this b/c I know the limits of my ship, I know what it can and can't do, I know when to engage and when to hold back. Sp's won't teach you that, it came from experience. Yes it takes awhile to learn that experience, but once you have it your as dangerous as any 30mil sp character.
Just my .02isk
Edit: geeze i can't speel tonite.
Are we there yet? |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:38:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 04/09/2005 05:38:03 Also, a kestrel on a character with about 300k skill points can take out an AF on a 30 million skill point character with a bit of practice and luck. -- Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
DeathForMeh
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:40:00 -
[6]
well once you get say 4- 5m sp into a are like for bs probaly your good. But nobos are totaly screwed when it comes to agents and getting t2 bpo's.
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Magnum VII
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:45:00 -
[7]
Why does it seem that people have this need to have to compete against the top most players in EVE right away anyways?
IMO when you 1st Enter EVE the area were you are at is at the same level in terms of comptition and at your own pace you choose the fan out from their.
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: BlackHawk177 Edited by: BlackHawk177 on 04/09/2005 05:36:36
Originally by: Gamer4liff In my Honest opinion, you are at a massive disadvantage and will allways be locked in an uphill struggle to try to keep up with people who are impossibly better than you.
Even specilisation will not help that much as most of the 30 mill sper's have multiple accounts with every aspect of eve specilised.
Sorry to say but competeing with the wealthy and highly skilled is nearly impossible unless you have strong friends or find a way to make isk fast.
Not really. Just b/c they're wealthy or highly skilled, doesn't mean you can't compete. I know people with 14mil sp's that are specialized in flying HAC's and they go out on a regular basis and kill bs pilots with 20-30mil sp's. It's not the amount of skillpoints you have, it's how well you know how to use what you have at your disposal.
Like for example, I can take a Wolf out, and go and take on multiple cruiser's piloted by pilots with more sp's then me. I can go out and do this b/c I know the limits of my ship, I know what it can and can't do, I know when to engage and when to hold back. Sp's won't teach you that, it came from experience. Yes it takes awhile to learn that experience, but once you have it your as dangerous as any 30mil sp character.
Just my .02isk
Edit: geeze i can't speel tonite.
14millsp=!newb I beleive this thread is about players 1-7 mi sp.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:48:00 -
[9]
they can go out into .0 in their frigs and cruisers and go make money ;p
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ArcticFox
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Posted - 2005.09.04 05:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: ArcticFox on 04/09/2005 05:55:33 Edited by: ArcticFox on 04/09/2005 05:54:19 Newbs are screwed when it comes to instantly getting the highest level stuff loot in every MMORPG. That's what makes it high level, that you have to work for a while and be there for a while to get it.
Skill points are not the be all and end all of everything in Eve (especially not that profoundly meaningless total SP number). They help, but most things (except t2 bpos, which have much more to do with simply having a lot of research agents working for a long time and getting really goddamn lucky) are a matter of work and practice. There is no 'uphill battle' to catch up, because there is no permanent state of being 'better at something' the most experienced PvPer in a HAC can lose his ship to a couple of people with a quarter his SP driving tech 1 cruisers, and someone with only a few mil SP can easily find a corp in an alliance to join up in and make hundreds of millions of isk mining high ends with only the most basic mining skills. The impression of an uphill battle comes only from the fact that, yes, your total skillpoint number will never catch up with some of those older players. It doesn't matter, that number is next to meaningless.
Once you're flying BS with BS equipment, you've passed the point where what you're able to use makes most of the difference. After that it's just marginal differences which can be (and quite often are) instantly negated by tactics and luck (this applies to isk making as well as pvping). There is no uphill battle (I started only about a year ago, long after everyone here at the beta had established themselves with over 20 mil sp chars and such, it never bothered my enjoyment of the game or my ability to compete).
Making a mark in Eve has much more to do with how you act and what groups you work with than what kind of isk you have and what kind of SP you have. You can be a great, well known leader of an alliance with only a few million SP if you've got the stuff to step up to the task. ----------------------------------
"There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
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Fineberg
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Posted - 2005.09.04 06:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
14millsp=!newb I beleive this thread is about players 1-7 mi sp.
Brings up a good point. I consider myself a newb until I get to atleast 5 mil, maybe even 10 by then. There have been some great points made about how resources and some experience are easier accessible than SP, but there are many cases where a one on one fight between 2 ships of the same type, fitted exactly the same, is won by who has the most/better skills. Experience is a HUGE factor, but will only get you so far. No matter how hard you play, you won't level up any faster with someone with the same attributes. Do I believe this is flawed? Not necessarily, but I do believe the Experience/SP curve in EVE is greater than that of any other MMOP due to the leveling system.
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Soren
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Posted - 2005.09.04 06:07:00 -
[12]
For newbies to utterly rule this game and all fly around in a fleet of dreads and titans then they are at a disadvantage.
There is NO DISADVANTAGE for newbies to still have FUN (which games are about?) with all the same content that the vets had plus more. _________________________________________________________
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Muhad'dib
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Posted - 2005.09.04 06:44:00 -
[13]
New players to this game just have to get used to the fact that they can't compete with veterans. And why should they, really?
I think people in general need to drop their need of trying to WIN everything. EVE is not a game you WIN. EVE is a game you live in. And as such, veterans and oldtimers provide new players with CONTENT and a background that completely blow every other game away.
In no other mmorpg do you have this rich environment to play in. It has a history and a body that is unequalled.
Soo.. don't try to win. Live the game instead.
However, as someone said. In the realm of ISK you can compete. There is a lot of ISK making that is more dependant on the players wits than ingame skill.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.09.04 08:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Muhad'dib New players to this game just have to get used to the fact that they can't compete with veterans. And why should they, really?
I think people in general need to drop their need of trying to WIN everything. EVE is not a game you WIN. EVE is a game you live in. And as such, veterans and oldtimers provide new players with CONTENT and a background that completely blow every other game away.
In no other mmorpg do you have this rich environment to play in. It has a history and a body that is unequalled.
Soo.. don't try to win. Live the game instead.
However, as someone said. In the realm of ISK you can compete. There is a lot of ISK making that is more dependant on the players wits than ingame skill.
Very well said.
And about the ISK part, totally true. There are so many new players with SO much more ISK than I think I could ever have. It's just a matter of determination and perseverance, and a little bit of intelligence and luck (at least with trades). Making money in this game has become so easy, at least for those willing to dedicate some time to it, that it's almost a joke now. But I can only do the same thing for so long before I need to try something different; many others don't have this hindrance.
Originally by: Idio T
Only two types of people I hate in this game: People who discriminate against other races, and the French.
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Sirkill
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Posted - 2005.09.04 09:52:00 -
[15]
Duh... not another Skillpoints thread.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.04 10:00:00 -
[16]
well with +1-+3 implants dropping like flies u should be able to boost those attritbues very quickly
That said this isnt WOW so u need to stick with it and cant just skill level grind up
U need 6 months at least to get fullyu into this game. If not go play WOW
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.09.04 11:07:00 -
[17]
No, because you can only specialise so far in every profession. Somebody might have 30mil SP, but they're only going to be using at most 10mil of it in any one ship they're flying.
Veterans simply have more choice than other players in what they can fly effectively. _________
I'm going to kill you in the face! |
afk demonkiller
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Posted - 2005.09.04 12:00:00 -
[18]
Quote: No, because you can only specialise so far in every profession. Somebody might have 30mil SP, but they're only going to be using at most 10mil of it in any one ship they're flying.
very true
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Benilopax
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Posted - 2005.09.04 13:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Benilopax on 04/09/2005 13:11:08 Well give younger players a fighting chance in small ships like we are doing and then it won't be so bad.
Perhaps more player control on ships could help them despite the issues of lag which we all know about.
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Asnar
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Posted - 2005.09.04 14:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: afk demonkiller
Quote: No, because you can only specialise so far in every profession. Somebody might have 30mil SP, but they're only going to be using at most 10mil of it in any one ship they're flying.
very true
Not always, there's plenty of peeps that have specialized since they started playing, and are completely maxed out for their preferred ship, which can mean 20mil+ in use when flying their preferred ship. Most don't though. And besides, how many vets are there really?
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.09.04 15:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 04/09/2005 15:11:48 It's simple, new players can't and shouldn't aspire to compete with 30mill sp vets (of which there are less then you think, or at least less original character owning ones then you'd think), when it comes to versatility.
but,
Once you cross the 10million sp mark, everything goes however, since that allows a nearly full skilltree when specialised. Yes, the originial 30-40 million sp vets are able to have several skill trees trained up where a new player has only one, but that's simply the reward for being around so long. In combat or in trading, the effect of that versatility is minimal, it only gives more options to the vet. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
miner forty9er
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Posted - 2005.09.04 15:39:00 -
[22]
I agree. I started out about 6 months ago. I only have about 6.6 mil in SP's and find that i can do most things I want do I fly that Uber t2 ship ? No , I dont but that is my current skill goal. Worrying about what the other person has in SP's is only going to make you feel like your trying to keep up with the Jones and not getting anywheres. In an RPG I tend to play anything that has one good skill and is handicapped in anything else. Its the doing the impossible with the negligent that makes anything I do fun. Also if you set small goals for your self, that you can achieve in a reasonable time, (which this game excells at by the way),then you feel a sense of acomplishment when you attain them .Who cares if there is some one with all those SP's. That doesn't mean they are a god. It just means they started earlier. Now the only thing i look at time since created and possible SP's for is to see if i need to worry (alot ) when im scouting around in low sec space and the possibility of soon to happen pod death . LOL, just relax, have fun, and play your charactor to its best and for Tomb's sake just play to have fun.
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Gan Ning
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Posted - 2005.09.04 15:50:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gan Ning on 04/09/2005 15:56:26
Millions of skill points don't mean you are any better it simply means you have more flexibility and versatility in game.
What people need to always remember is EVE is not level based game. EVE is skilled based, meaning you are truely unique and can specialise in anything you want. For instance I have over 7mil skill points in missiles but 0 skill points in trade, does that mean i'm any less market savvy? No, it simply means a player with skills in Trade will make better use of the market to thier advantage than me, but does not mean they're guaranteed to make money.
In pvp, depending on your tactics, loadout, specialisation and anticipation of your enemys loadout, a 4 mill sp char could beat a 40mil sp char, it is possible. In a level based mmo using a similar equivalent theres no way that would happen (a lv 40 will pwn lv4 char everytime).
New players today have it better than you think. Back in the day there were no implants, no advanced learning skills. That all came later. There was no reliable advice from older players advising you about your skills. There were hardly any generous isk handouts unlike you can get today simply posting 'hi im new and need help'.
New players starting out have got it good, trust me!
P.S. and you can't have the big skillpoint cake without putting the time in! Skill train for two years and you will understand how we feel!
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BoBoZoBo
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Posted - 2005.09.04 15:52:00 -
[24]
Dam Communists... allways want everyone to be equal without working for it. =========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.04 15:53:00 -
[25]
Skill points mean jack all in PVP. Ships mean jack all. Better pilots will win. And considering that very little combat in EVE is 1 v 1, SP means the least of all.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Jet Calhoun
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Posted - 2005.09.04 16:27:00 -
[26]
Gawd, every week when one of these damn whiney threads ("he's got more skill points than me, whhhaaaaaaaaaaa!") somebody should just link to a single main thread covering this FAQ/topic and the new one be insta-locked. <deep sigh>
The response about playing the game rather than trying to WIN it was excellent.
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Dakath
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Posted - 2005.09.04 16:46:00 -
[27]
My own character is more generalized than most. I spent most of the last year getting the isk-making skills to a good level. Now I am training up for PVP. Won't be a carebear forever!
This approach to the game takes a lot of patience. Certainly I will probably never get to be as uber as some of the guys who have been around since 2003, but I'm having fun. That is the whole point of the game, having fun.
1000 baby bunnies were slow-roasted alive to create this signature line.
We Hate Bunny |
Vincent Rainbow
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Posted - 2005.09.04 16:49:00 -
[28]
New players have the distinct advantage of knowing what attributes and skills to start with, with the proliferation of guides etc that the players who started at release didnt have.
Some of the old players are now stuck with attributes that mean that their alts and second accounts are now catching them up skillpoints-wise.
When it gets to 2 1/2 years into the game that snap decision to add all 5 points to charisma really takes its toll.
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Fineberg
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Posted - 2005.09.04 17:17:00 -
[29]
What also needs to be considered is that the gap between Veteran and Newbie(for those new to the game now) will start to shrink as time goes on, and 2 years from now there might not be that big of a difference, granted both characters specialized somewhat in learning and have some uber implants.
I agree that Newbies, like myself, have a shot as long as they stick with it. We all know that Eve is a game that requires much patience in the long run.
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.09.04 17:33:00 -
[30]
People who ***** and moan and expect the game to hand them everything on a platter are at a disadvantage, people who play the game smart, work for their stuff and have some common sense aren't, newbie or not.
Originally by: James Lyrus Complaining about PvP & Pirates in EVE is like complaining about the mines in minesweeper. |
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