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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Fnuss Vassyaf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.06.27 18:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
I was wondering why no ship would ever drop from SMAs and other things.
The lack of transparency on the issue is rather disappointing. |
Ellahan Vhektor
DIVERGENT PROXY
9
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Posted - 2013.06.27 18:21:00 -
[62] - Quote
this is bullshite ccp you need to fix this this week not soon tm GòöGòùGòæGòæ GòöGòùGòæGòæGòª Gòª-áGòªGòªGòöGòù GòöGòù GòªGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòù GòæGòæGòáGòú GòÜGòùGòáGòúGòæ Gòæ-áGòæGòæGòÜGòù GòáGòú GòæGòáGòúGòáGòúGòáGò¥ GòÜGò¥GòæGòæ GòÜGò¥GòæGòæGò¬ Gòæ-áGò¬GòæGòÜGò¥ GòæGòæ GòæGòæGòÜGòæGòæGòæ
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Rutger Janssen
Xanadu
86
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Posted - 2013.06.27 18:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
I wonder what causes such a big performance drop(I assume here that server/client performance would be problematic and not programmer performance(bugs fixed/day)?
The spawning of multiple containers? Just put it all in 1 container, who cares that it overloads? Can't scoop it as a container, can't put anything in because it's already full (and if you could, make it so you can't drop anything in like wrecks). Don't see a way that can be exploited.
The volume itself can't really be a problem.
Just the amount of items to be moved? Limit the number of items that are dropped in worst case. Best case, make moving items less expensive.
And if you want to gain some performance, when you install a t2 blueprint, don't have it assemble all the required R.A.M.s one by one and consumer them afterwards one by one :) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
6557
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Posted - 2013.06.27 19:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:so you are telling me if I blow up an industrial ship carrying something in a plastic wrap I cannot get it no matter what?
This issue only affects cargo containers, not wrecks. So if you loot before you salvage you're fine.
Obviously far from ideal but not as bad as not being able to get them no matter what. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
326
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:14:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I think I can clarify a few things.
When it changed to its current behavior that change was made intentionally for performance reasons. Therefore it is not a "bug", but that doesn't mean it will always stay the way it is now either. When something is considered "working as intended" that doesn't mean we're happy with every aspect of the design, but it does mean that there is a reason for the status quo.
We are aware of the significant downsides to the current mechanic and we're not married to the current design for SMA destruction but we can't promise anything specific about it at this time.
The GMs were not mistaken in their communication on this issue. Sorry, but this is a garbage answer on a change that panders to carebears living in wormholes. There's essentially no reason to conduct wormhole evictions or pos bash if its guaranteed to not drop anything of value. Absolute garbage, and the fact that it was intentional is a slap to the face.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
503
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:16:00 -
[66] - Quote
Fozzie, many billions worth of loot are illegitimately destroyed each day by this "non-bug", arbitrarily withheld from the players who earned it by invading and laying siege to towers. That is totally unacceptable. This issue should be right at the top of things that need to be fixed ASAP. . |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
6557
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:29:00 -
[67] - Quote
Couple things to make clear, then I'm going to leave this thread because it's becoming fairly clear that no constructive discourse will be found here.
Firstly: The change that caused this was an exploit prevention change, which we generally never go into details about in patch notes. It wasn't a casual change made on a whim. It was a significant "We have the choice of this problem or that problem, and need to decide the lesser of two evils" kind of change. We definitely should have found a way to express the other effects of the change in the patch notes though, that was a mistake on our part.
Secondly: Me not promising anything on an issue is not the same as me saying that it's not a priority or that we're not working on it. I'll only promise things when they are essentially done, because in game development it's really hard to predict anything with certainty.
And with that I'm gonna move on from this thread. Good hunting guys. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Sai Talos
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
20
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
Will continue to bash pos's regardless of loot dropped, unless CCP changes something where tears no longer drop as well.
Please understand, Fozzie, we the wormholers are just the Tea Party of Eve Online. The most vocal, yes, but the smallest and oft most unreasonable in our demands. We know you'll get around to it soon(tm.) |
Istyn
Freight Club Whores in space
211
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:so you are telling me if I blow up an industrial ship carrying something in a plastic wrap I cannot get it no matter what? This issue only affects cargo containers, not wrecks. So if you loot before you salvage you're fine. it also only affects plastic wraps with a volume larger than 27k m3. Obviously far from ideal but not as bad as not being able to get them no matter what.
The unfortunate thing is that in high sec there is obviously no reasonable way to stop people from salvaging, as it (correctly) doesn't cause any sort of flag. This makes it far more of a problem than it would be if the worry was only your own fleet salvaging by accident, or in low where you can just shoot people that try.
That said, if by any chance you haven't quite abandoned the thread just yet, thank you for providing updates and more information.
Edit: Just noticed the plastic wrap mention, we have actually had plastic wraps destroyed upon salvage when their size was only 500m3, as we specifically tested it. |
Lucius Exitius
Protectors Holdings The Tribbles
12
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
Istyn wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:so you are telling me if I blow up an industrial ship carrying something in a plastic wrap I cannot get it no matter what? This issue only affects cargo containers, not wrecks. So if you loot before you salvage you're fine. it also only affects plastic wraps with a volume larger than 27k m3. Obviously far from ideal but not as bad as not being able to get them no matter what. The unfortunate thing is that in high sec there is obviously no reasonable way to stop people from salvaging, as it (correctly) doesn't cause any sort of flag. This makes it far more of a problem than it would be if the worry was only your own fleet salvaging by accident, or in low where you can just shoot people that try. That said, if by any chance you haven't quite abandoned the thread just yet, thank you for providing updates and more information. Edit: Just noticed the plastic wrap mention, we have actually had plastic wraps destroyed upon salvage when their size was only 500m3, as we specifically tested it.
Why do you think not being flagged for stealing salvage is OK? |
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Sassums
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
106
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
So really what CCP is saying is in an attempt to fix one thing, they break something else. Because that makes sense.
I wish I could go to my job with half my work done and tell my boss I'll worry about it later. |
Trinity Faetal
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:51:00 -
[72] - Quote
Perhaps you can stop using the 11 year old 27.5k cargo container for loot drops and add a "Phat LewtGäó" container that doesn't have a M3 limit and only allows take access.
I seem to remember some time ago that we got wrecks in the game that have "unlimited m3". do we still have those ? can we have sma and cha drop stuff in unsalvageable wrecks ? |
Istyn
Freight Club Whores in space
211
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
Lucius Exitius wrote: Why do you think not being flagged for stealing salvage is OK?
The arguments about that are entirely unrelated and have been rehashed over and over for years.
http://www.ironfleet.com/a-gm-on-salvage/
Pretty much this. |
Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
335
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Posted - 2013.06.27 20:57:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:so you are telling me if I blow up an industrial ship carrying something in a plastic wrap I cannot get it no matter what? This issue only affects cargo containers, not wrecks. So if you loot before you salvage you're fine. it also only affects plastic wraps with a volume larger than 27k m3. Obviously far from ideal but not as bad as not being able to get them no matter what. fair enough, hope it gets fixed soon, but really soon... |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
80
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
This annoys me to no end. Pinatas were a fun part of living in W-space. I assumed this was a critical and known bug and would be fixed ASAP, so I have not been very loud in whining. If nothing changes, there will be tantrums and tears and maybe a little bit of howling. You know, the standard package. |
Fel Wrath
Crossfire Incorporated I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
9
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
Sassums wrote:So really what CCP is saying is in an attempt to fix one thing, they break something else. Because that makes sense.
I wish I could go to my job with half my work done and tell my boss I'll worry about it later.
Oh man try working as an enterprise level developer. It's an unavoidable consequence of maintaining large enterprise applications especially when those applications (or parts of ) are legacy or old as I'm sure some of eve's code base is.
Even though I (along with everyone else obv) hate the current mechanic, I understand the implications of having open exploits. Performance issues require lots of thought and when dealing with what might be ye old knapsack problem there is a huge amount of algorithmic analysis needed..maybe one approximation is deemed worthwhile..then you have to implement and test EVERYTHING cuz who know what breakage might have occurred as a result of the implementation fix. Then you go through test cycles and hopefully in the end everything LOOKS like it's working (which it won't obviously because enterprise level software maintenance is like trying to re-organize trees in a jungle).
I feel for you CCP...we don't have a forums where users can inundated us with their wrath! |
Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
81
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
Fel Wrath wrote:Sassums wrote:So really what CCP is saying is in an attempt to fix one thing, they break something else. Because that makes sense.
I wish I could go to my job with half my work done and tell my boss I'll worry about it later. Oh man try working as an enterprise level developer. It's an unavoidable consequence of maintaining large enterprise applications especially when those applications (or parts of ) are legacy or old as I'm sure some of eve's code base is. Even though I (along with everyone else obv) hate the current mechanic, I understand the implications of having open exploits. Performance issues require lots of thought and when dealing with what might be ye old knapsack problem there is a huge amount of algorithmic analysis needed..maybe one approximation is deemed worthwhile..then you have to implement and test EVERYTHING cuz who know what breakage might have occurred as a result of the implementation fix. Then you go through test cycles and hopefully in the end everything LOOKS like it's working (which it won't obviously because enterprise level software maintenance is like trying to re-organize trees in a jungle). I feel for you CCP...we don't have a forums where users can inundated us with their wrath! And this gentlemen, is also why the main reason of death among programmers is poorly documented code, mediated by inevitable murder.
I once tried to maintain a patchwork FORTRAN code with modern and legacy components that had no relevant comments. Never again... at least not as an internship. |
Setsune Rin
Bite Me inc Bitten.
34
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:37:00 -
[78] - Quote
while i understand the predicament from a programming POV...please consider making a workaround, or some other patchjob to remedy the situation (special can for SMA's or something)
and fixing it permanently later, since i can already see this one coming a mile off not doing it that way will make it take a year or more |
Isa Superiora
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
12
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
I'm glad to see we're suffering feature regression so CCP can add more casual friendly game mechanics. |
The Great Leader
15
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:46:00 -
[80] - Quote
I'll just leave this here
http://imgur.com/g80vFPn The voice of truth. |
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Winter Archipelago
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
42
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:49:00 -
[81] - Quote
Sassums wrote:So really what CCP is saying is in an attempt to fix one thing, they break something else. Because that makes sense.
I wish I could go to my job with half my work done and tell my boss I'll worry about it later.
Sounds more to me like CCP closed a damaged bridge to prevent it from collapsing. Sure, that means we can't drive on it until it gets repaired, forcing us to drive a ways out of our way to reach the next bridge, but it also means it doesn't collapse on and kill someone. Ransoms are accepted in Isk, Ships, Mods, and Dolls. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
504
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
Sai Talos wrote:Please understand, Fozzie, we the wormholers are just the Tea Party of Eve Online I haven't been insulted like that in a long time . |
Ren Talos
Nagamoto Inc.
1
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
I don't know how withholding loot from players and breaking a game mechanic which has been in the game since the introduction of POSes can be working as intended.... It just seems to me as CCP does not dare to touch the POS code and doesn't care about people in wormholes. |
Armenos
Paradise Team Stealth Wear Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.06.27 22:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
This is clearly not working as intended and I think CCP should at least reimburse losses until they fix it and don't deny this issue... this is ridiculous. |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
408
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Posted - 2013.06.27 23:31:00 -
[85] - Quote
ccp can make cans spew out of a relic site,but cant make cans drop out of a SMA.
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Ellahan Vhektor
DIVERGENT PROXY
9
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Posted - 2013.06.28 00:20:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Couple things to make clear:
Firstly: The change that caused this was an exploit prevention change, which we generally never go into details about in patch notes. It wasn't a casual change made on a whim. It was a significant "We have the choice of this problem or that problem, and need to decide the lesser of two evils" kind of change. We definitely should have found a way to express the other effects of the change in the patch notes though, that was a mistake on our part.
Secondly: Me not promising anything on an issue is not the same as me saying that it's not a priority or that we're not working on it. I'll only promise things when they are essentially done, because in game development it's really hard to predict anything with certainty. nononono sry fozzie but we dont give a **** you need to fix this now come up with a solution this is a joke GòöGòùGòæGòæ GòöGòùGòæGòæGòª Gòª-áGòªGòªGòöGòù GòöGòù GòªGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòù GòæGòæGòáGòú GòÜGòùGòáGòúGòæ Gòæ-áGòæGòæGòÜGòù GòáGòú GòæGòáGòúGòáGòúGòáGò¥ GòÜGò¥GòæGòæ GòÜGò¥GòæGòæGò¬ Gòæ-áGò¬GòæGòÜGò¥ GòæGòæ GòæGòæGòÜGòæGòæGòæ
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
6563
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Posted - 2013.06.28 00:52:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ellahan Vhektor wrote: nononono sry fozzie but we dont give a **** you need to fix this now come up with a solution this is a joke
Apology accepted. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
893
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Posted - 2013.06.28 01:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
While you're out fixing the "oops we can't drop big things in the game anymore" issue would it be too much to ask to improve T2 interceptor lock ranges so that they're greater than their point ranges? That'd be just great. |
krickettt
The Six-Pack Syndicate Hashashin Cartel
18
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Posted - 2013.06.28 02:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
Why not have wrecks for SMAs instead of cans? |
gawrshmapooo
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
12
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Posted - 2013.06.28 02:25:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:While you're out fixing the "oops we can't drop big things in the game anymore" issue would it be too much to ask to improve T2 interceptor lock ranges so that they're greater than their point ranges? That'd be just great.
"SMAs not dropping ships, large objects no longer dropping as loot" is what it says as the topic of this thread, thank you.
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