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Lungorthin
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Posted - 2003.07.27 14:38:00 -
[1]
First of all, I have been a PK (Player Killer) myself in other games so I certainly think that this ærougeÆ activity has its justification and a place in every game. (I do not agree with killing newbies or podding senselessly, but every PK has to stand straight for his own actions.)
Second, I am very happy to see that the EVE programming team is making good steps and all kind of efforts to slowly improve the game, kudos!
Now to the issue at hand. IMO The game has a serious flaw at the moment. PKs can just too easily run away and hide in NPC bases and they are UNTOUCHABLE there.
A. It is no fun to engage or hunt PKs that sit on a NPC base killing all around, and when they are engaged they just DOCK and are 100% safe.
B. It is no fun to engage or hunt PKs that camp at gates that immediately run away like scared chickens when engaged. Warp to stations, with corresponding bookmark so that they can dock immediately, and again they are untouchable and safe there.
This steals the FUN for many many players. And FUN is a very important thing in any game.
The game currently allows this coward acts. And lame players will always find and exploit game flaws. Now that this game flaw is singled out I would like to open the constructive discussion as to how to avoid this particular flaw.
At the time of writing this I came up only with this idea: Maybe NPC stations can be forced to ôspit outö low sec players after a time, or allow only ûtimed- dockings (docking takes 5 min for example). Just like in rl WWII where German ships could dock only for a short time in ôneutralö ports.
I would like to hear other constructive ideas of how to tackle this problem Lets brainstorm together
And I hope the game developers will listen to our plight :)
Lungorthin
P.S: I repeat, I have nothing against PKs, I repeat that I was one myself in another game, but players who wanted revenge could always find me and hurt me, and some did :) In EVE currently the lame PKers just run and hide into save havens.
Lungorthin
If you want peace... prepare for war. |
Supersonix
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Posted - 2003.07.27 15:47:00 -
[2]
I agree with you. The stations should reject the request to dock or something.
Support the Alternative market proposition. Clicky clicky. |
Indesin
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Posted - 2003.07.27 19:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Indesin on 27/07/2003 19:28:43 I am 110% for PVP conflict. The moment EVE is nerfed towards a more 'eq' playstyle is the moment I leave the game.
However, I do agree that players engaging in combat should be forced to finish what they started. Either side 'good' or 'bad' should not be allowed to dock for a certain period of time IF they are the aggressor. Perhaps this rule may change in the case of corporate stations, in that players should be allowed to dock regardless if they belong to a corporate HQ based at the station they are attempting to dock with.
Whatever happens, it should not favor either side of the coin. EVE revolves around conflict, whether it is market competition, bounty hunting, senseless murders, assassinations, or corporate war. If you canÆt handle the combat, then stay within the policed regions of space.
But yes, players engaging in combat should be forced to finish what they started.
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Claren
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Posted - 2003.07.27 19:41:00 -
[4]
Not being able to dock could be a part of the already existing rule that makes police attack you up til 15 minutes after you broke the law.
To my experiece this rule expands outside the system you are in. After hitting some convoys in Caldari space I was shot at at every gate when leaving the place.
But also consider the downside of such a rule. If you are chased by the police you got nowhere to go!
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Mysterio
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Posted - 2003.07.27 20:21:00 -
[5]
Probobly the most importand DISCUSSION to improve Eve right now. PK are a nessessety as much as they are a pain in the ass. I mean, there have to be a risk travelling in lowlvl system. This risk is today not from NPC-pirates but from PKs. This way many lucrative traderoutes become much more dangerous.
I have one or two ideas
1. When you warp INTO a system you spawn at the same gate you use to jump to the system you came from. This way it's possible set a snaere around a pirate. There are problems with this, ofcourse. One is that pirates now can pick everyone travelling in AND out of a system. And pirates can also more easy set up traps.
2. A time limitation in bases would be extremly intresting. There are, however, many complications with this. First, which stations would have those time limitations? And if you feel like logging off, you might not want to go to empty space or a moon and do it.
3. A problem is the many places in every solar system. This problem could be solved with something I would like to call System Scanner. This device would scan a system for certain player (not all) and then indicate and an object where this person is. This would make it more difficult hiding among all those moons. Problem is as always that this could be used by pirates as well... but that's why you need escort in low lvl systems. =============================================== A stupid man learns from his mistakes A smart man learns from other's. Raptus Regaliter =============================================== |
Lungorthin
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Posted - 2003.07.28 09:27:00 -
[6]
Yes of course that any docking time limitation should not apply to PC stations.
PC Stations can be attacked and destroyed so the owners should think twice before harbouring PKs. PC Stations on the other hand should be able to "deny access" to specific players and/or corporations, and also be able to manually "kick out" docked players.
Lungorthin
If you want peace... prepare for war. |
Froztwolf
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Posted - 2003.07.28 11:07:00 -
[7]
I think the simplest solution (And perhaps most realistic) would be to make the police more aggressive towards players with low sec lv and stations would refuse their docking requests. Of course this would depend on the systems sec lv, so they could always hide out in low sec systems. But the police should be aggressive enough to make it a suicide for anyone with a very low sec lv to enter a 0.7 system or greater. Than there is the possibility of "smartgates". Refuse some people access to some systems. But I really havent thought that one trough, so I am not sure of all the implications. ------------------------
Never underestimate the power of denial! |
Lungorthin
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Posted - 2003.07.31 15:10:00 -
[8]
(dunno why this post was posted as a lone post without a topic when I tried to reply to this thread, I repost it here at the proper place)
Froztwolf what you propose would restrict the movement of PKs. I would not agree with that.
My whole point is to restrict their ability to use the lame technique of running like scared chicken to the next base and hiding in there.
Besides that they should be able to fly anywere they want IMO.
Who of you likes getting podkilled by some campers? Ok so your corp is big and strongh and then your buddies come with Battleships from 40 jumps away to punish the PK. Then the PK uses the "scared chicken" technique and flees to the bookmarked station an laughes in your face. Your mighty retaliation fleet has little to do besides admiring the beautiful star constellations. In the meantime the PK simply logs to his builder account and merrily builds/mines/etc. until the retaliation fleet gets bored and leaves the system.
Disregard Passive Targetting, Web-Stasifying or Warp Disruptors. All those devices work in theory but in reality the PK can and do get away when they smell trouble.
This is the reason why strong corps have ceased to try to engage PKs. It simply makes no sense.
Lungorthin
If you want peace... prepare for war. |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.07.31 15:24:00 -
[9]
I agree that there should be PKs too... but what I don't like seeing is gate camping pc rats who have a ridiculous 8.8 positive sec rating like I saw this morning.
You can't even post bounties on them for god's sake.
If someone wants to be a pirate then I think that even in 0.0 you get a temporary sec hit that lasts say 15 mins which would at least allow us to post a bounty on their heads and maybe force them away from station so people can chase after them. -------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros> |
Gullan Coco
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Posted - 2003.07.31 16:50:00 -
[10]
Agree with you there Neo. A possitive sec rate should decrease extremly fast if you kill another player with possitive rating (if you shoot the first shot).
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Asharia
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Posted - 2003.07.31 21:10:00 -
[11]
why not link someone's security status and faction/corp standing to the dockable stations. Say I am a known pirate hunter: security status 6.4 (yeah some time went into this one). I have no problem docking anywhere in the empires or stations of good/neutral corps/factions outside the empires. Won't be able to dock at a hostile station though.
Same goes the other way: my char is now -6.4 (little time went into this one), all my docking requests at stations owned by corps active in the empires would be denied. Why? Because I'm a known criminal and they will not want to be associated with my kind of people. I admit that for this to work, stations open to player-pirates should be more prevalent outisde the empires then they are now. But hiding in a station in Obe? They can forget it.
I also don't get the point in concord *****ing about bounty hunting. I can attack gurristas freely, can't I? What's the difficulty in putting m0o and divisions (and of course, other corps known to do illegal things on a regular basis) on the same list? I think they're pretty infamous in the whole EVE universe.
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Cro Ramel
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Posted - 2003.07.31 21:19:00 -
[12]
I had an idea on how to deal with people that run and to a planet and then log off until the heat dies down on them. If after you took a certain amount of damage perhaps critical systems could be damaged....resulting in self destruction of the ship in 30 minutes or something. You wouldn't be able to log off and wait for the people chasing you to go away, you'd need to dock and repair.
"If it sounds like a bad idea, it is."
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Elad Baan
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Posted - 2003.07.31 22:37:00 -
[13]
how about putting a cap on a player's sec.rating if he attacks a ship with a positive status, on top of having a drastic drop of level ? for example, I want to become a pirate. I've got a 5.6 status with concord. I attack my first ship (a convoy) and my rating drops to -1.0. BUT, it's also capped to, let's say, 0.0. So after destoying the convoy, if I want to kill a bunch of NPC pirates in order to get a better rating (prior to attacking another ship!), I'll only be able to get back to 0.0, but not more. The level limit slowly increases with time spent without killing regular ships, for example.
Cool ideas for the game - New mission types - Group missions - Planets and the market |
Froztwolf
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Posted - 2003.08.01 09:01:00 -
[14]
Lungorthin: I beg to differ. Most (granted not all) PKs have a very low sec status and are therefore wanted criminals. Of course they shouldnt be allowed to dock just anywhere and it is natural for them to have their movements restricted. I dont think they would give Bin Laden a landing permission on JFK! ------------------------
Never underestimate the power of denial! |
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