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Natasha Kerensky
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Posted - 2005.09.09 22:21:00 -
[1]
Blasting through lvl 3's in a HAC (vagabond prolly) -or-
Running lvl 4s in a Raven
what makes more isk per hour?
btw im working for Caldari Navy if that makes any difference, and im usually solo
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callisthenes excelsior
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Posted - 2005.09.09 22:29:00 -
[2]
For a really good l3 agent use the caldari navy agent in kaunakkoa near venilia and yria
She gives 2000 LP for the harder L3 missions like spystash, etc. With your HAC, you can stack those pretty fast. As an added benefit, the faction missions are also nearby.
If you do the missions fast enough, you can get the angel strike for the 50 mil implant or just regular L3 faction missions for implants.
L4 missions solo are really hard to do. With a raven in a long range set up, you might want to try this. You locate 4 l4 agents roughly close. Then you take missions from them, junking all the deadspace ones. This lets you focus on the encounter ones where you can warp in and let your cruise missiles kill the rats fast. With 4 agents, rotating them, you can junk missions fast, but it doesn't have the consistancy of doing L3 for 2000 points each and for only jumping 1 jump.
Also when you get the L4 faction missions like shipyard strike, it will be suicide to do them solo.
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MineallMine
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Posted - 2005.09.09 23:38:00 -
[3]
I'd also agree that lvl 3s in a Vaga is probably better. (A munnin does them just as quick.)
I like to think about it as Burst damage vs. DPS.
If you run a lvl 4 and I run lvl 3s, you are probably ahead when you finish. But if you run into trouble or just have RL issues from finishing a deadspace mission, you'd have been better off running 3s.
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Storme
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Posted - 2005.09.10 00:12:00 -
[4]
In my experience, on the outset lvl 3 missions look more lucrative than lvl 4's, especially when looking at the timescales associated with them. However you shouldn't overlook the bounty level is much higher in lvl 4's (presuming you are up against rats...) and the drops can be significantly higher in value. I ran the Blockade level 4 mission last night and it took me around an hour. It produced some of the best drops I had seen (at least five worth in excess of 10 million isk each). This mission probably earned me around 60 mil in the end.
"I like these calm little moments before the Storm..." - Gary Oldman, Leon |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.09.10 08:43:00 -
[5]
Default mission rewards for the average l3 mission is 500k in total for me., for level 4's its around 5 mill. Thats excluding bounties, level 3;s is mostly frigates with the occasional cruiser. Level 4 is a lot of cruisers with Bs, and rogue drone bs
I wouldnt use the raven though, id use a hac for level 4's. ------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Mannakin
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Posted - 2005.09.10 11:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I wouldnt use the raven though, id use a hac for level 4's.
A Ferrox will rip through a lvl 3 mission, so its a cheaper alternative to a HAC or its an option for people who can't drive a HAC
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Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2005.09.10 12:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mannakin A Ferrox will rip through a lvl 3 mission, so its a cheaper alternative to a HAC or its an option for people who can't drive a HAC
A Ferox is in no way comparable to a HAC. It has nowhere near the offensive or defensive capabilites of a HAC. Anything a Ferox can do, a Raven can do better. Same can't be said comparing a Raven to a HAC.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.09.10 12:17:00 -
[8]
I like to do level 4's in my vaga, but it run through an awfull lot of ammo in a short time.
I parked the raven after the last patch, even with training up all the new missile skills its a turd vs smaller targets. And to dock and refit several times during a mission is imho just a waste of time.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://kill.hidden-agenda.co.uk/index.php
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.09.10 13:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mannakin
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I wouldnt use the raven though, id use a hac for level 4's.
A Ferrox will rip through a lvl 3 mission, so its a cheaper alternative to a HAC or its an option for people who can't drive a HAC
The OP is trying to decide between using the hac or the raven. Hac & Raven > Ferox so why waste time and money buying a ferox? ------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Garric Vor'g
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Posted - 2005.09.11 18:39:00 -
[10]
And people say macroers are bad for the game, seems that mission runners add 100% more isk to the game than macroers do. As is macroers add 0 isk to the market they just transer from player to player. Sorry for the off topic remark, but CCP need more isk sinks ingame imo.
General of Escape Pod Testing |
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Chepe Nolon
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Posted - 2005.09.11 19:19:00 -
[11]
I'm doing Level 3's and 4's in my Ishtar. If I don't get any "easy" missions (Serpentis Extravaganza, Vengeance, JIP's etc) from my level 4's around, I'm doing a series of level 3's. It can do all kinds of level 3s with ease. Problems with level 4's is that they take time. (If your name is not Toaster Oven). You can do a level 3 in just a few minutes if you're lucky. If RL calls, you don't miss much.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.09.11 22:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Garric Vor'g And people say macroers are bad for the game, seems that mission runners add 100% more isk to the game than macroers do. As is macroers add 0 isk to the market they just transer from player to player. Sorry for the off topic remark, but CCP need more isk sinks ingame imo.
Interesting your highest standing is with a "mining corp", and the age of your character. I recall way back when you could do "instant" missions with these mining agents almost ALL THE BLOODY TIME, so CCP changed it...
Anyways, your statement is bull, because if you had done any level 4 and even level 3 "kill" missions as of late you would noticed its more dangerous, less pay and mostly crap bonus's. Together with bounties been cut quite a lot. I do missions for standings so don't really care about all that, but to compare missions to macro mining that is just daft and silly.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://kill.hidden-agenda.co.uk/index.php
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Garric Vor'g
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Posted - 2005.09.12 00:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Originally by: Garric Vor'g And people say macroers are bad for the game, seems that mission runners add 100% more isk to the game than macroers do. As is macroers add 0 isk to the market they just transer from player to player. Sorry for the off topic remark, but CCP need more isk sinks ingame imo.
Interesting your highest standing is with a "mining corp", and the age of your character. I recall way back when you could do "instant" missions with these mining agents almost ALL THE BLOODY TIME, so CCP changed it...
Anyways, your statement is bull, because if you had done any level 4 and even level 3 "kill" missions as of late you would noticed its more dangerous, less pay and mostly crap bonus's. Together with bounties been cut quite a lot. I do missions for standings so don't really care about all that, but to compare missions to macro mining that is just daft and silly.
It's not as 'daft and silly' as you would think...but yes I do run missions myself, I do it with the hope of someday getting a fraction ship i'd like to get all the Minmatar ones if possible. And doing those missions I make a ton of isk, and that's only doing lvl 2 & 3's. BUT the difference is that is comes from the 'ncp market' but macroers sell their minerals on the 'pc market' so they are not infact causing the inflation that many have complained about.
NOTE i do not condone macroing...infact my corp petitions everyone we suspect of doing it. I'm just pointing out missions are actually worse for the market than these macroers
General of Escape Pod Testing |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.12 00:46:00 -
[14]
If you can find lvl3+4 agents close by give both a whirl and see what you prefer.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.12 00:46:00 -
[15]
manufacturing agents can be quite a LP eraner but the ISK is much less - where u will make up the diff is with the LP offers of +3 and +4 implants. They can be sold into a market which is lacking implants.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.12 01:10:00 -
[16]
try different agents all offer different reward focus points in missions etc.
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Cirale
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Posted - 2005.09.12 05:57:00 -
[17]
on a different note, which would be better for doing courier missions, lvl3 qual 18+ or lvl 4 qual -12?
Im trying a few lvl4s now, but the only high qual lvl3s are way away and gettin my 3 mission ships there is a pain.
I'd do it though if I get feed back that its definately worth it
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mimik
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Posted - 2005.09.12 07:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Garric Vor'g
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Originally by: Garric Vor'g And people say macroers are bad for the game, seems that mission runners add 100% more isk to the game than macroers do. As is macroers add 0 isk to the market they just transer from player to player. Sorry for the off topic remark, but CCP need more isk sinks ingame imo.
Interesting your highest standing is with a "mining corp", and the age of your character. I recall way back when you could do "instant" missions with these mining agents almost ALL THE BLOODY TIME, so CCP changed it...
Anyways, your statement is bull, because if you had done any level 4 and even level 3 "kill" missions as of late you would noticed its more dangerous, less pay and mostly crap bonus's. Together with bounties been cut quite a lot. I do missions for standings so don't really care about all that, but to compare missions to macro mining that is just daft and silly.
It's not as 'daft and silly' as you would think...but yes I do run missions myself, I do it with the hope of someday getting a fraction ship i'd like to get all the Minmatar ones if possible. And doing those missions I make a ton of isk, and that's only doing lvl 2 & 3's. BUT the difference is that is comes from the 'ncp market' but macroers sell their minerals on the 'pc market' so they are not infact causing the inflation that many have complained about.
NOTE i do not condone macroing...infact my corp petitions everyone we suspect of doing it. I'm just pointing out missions are actually worse for the market than these macroers
unbelieveably naive statement.
how can u possibly compare something which is banned by the EULA to an integral part of the game.
and btw u r better aiming to get a WHOLE ship not just a FRACTION of one.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.12 07:49:00 -
[19]
"A Ferox is in no way comparable to a HAC. It has nowhere near the offensive or defensive capabilites of a HAC."
Dunno, considering Ferox is Caldari ship, when you compare her to Caldari HAC there's really way less difference in performance than between battlecruisers and HAC's of another races... -.^
(damage output of Caldari HAC is so low Ferox can catch up to it easily, and their tanking abilities also aren't *that* noticeably higher without really expensive gear... they can simply shoot from twice as far range but there's no need for that in lvl.3 missions. Pretty sad, overall)
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Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2005.09.12 10:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: j0sephine (damage output of Caldari HAC is so low Ferox can catch up to it easily, and their tanking abilities also aren't *that* noticeably higher without really expensive gear...
True the Ferox puts out the same DPS as an Eagle when fitted with rails. But the range bonus on the Eagle is rather important considering the orbit range of battleships on Lvl4 missions. Also, the Ferox will never outdamage the Cerberus. Cerberus puts out 56-66% more damage than a Ferox.
As far as tanking, there really is no comparison. Ferox with 3 TII hardeners and BC5 can get Kin/Ther resists of 84/80. Caldari HACs can get 92/91. That's not even close. The resists alone mean the Caldari HACs take half the damage of the Ferox. The difference in sig resolution widens that gap considerably when fighting missile happy Guristas. Add to that the Caldari HACs both spit out more cap to tank with, and are easily boosted with a cap battery which doesn't work with the Ferox. And finally the Eagle gets a 25% shield boosting bonus. So net result is Caldari HACs can quite easily tank Lvl4 missions, whereas Ferox cannot.
Quote: they can simply shoot from twice as far range but there's no need for that in lvl.3 missions. Pretty sad, overall)
Who said anything about Lvl3 missions?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.12 12:03:00 -
[21]
"Also, the Ferox will never outdamage the Cerberus. Cerberus puts out 56-66% more damage than a Ferox."
It'll depend on the configuration, really... unless you start putting damage mods on the ships, Cerberus with max skills and tech.2 gear will deal ~135 raw dps (167 dps using kinetic missiles) At the same time, Ferox will do 150 dps in 5x heavy launcher + 2x 200mm rail config, or 165 dps with 5x 200mm rail + 2x heavy launcher config. As you can see, that's nowhere near 50% difference -.o
Extra resistances on the HAC are nice if you're limiting yourself to fighting the Guristas, as is the Eagle's higher cap recharge (Cerberus has 2x shorter recharge time but at the same time 2x less cap, so it boils down to Ferox' rate, with much less cap to work with) ... think these only start to matter if you try to do lvl.4's which doesn't look like that good idea to begin with, if one's trying to make fast money... given the ships' aforementioned damage output ^^;;
"Who said anything about Lvl3 missions? "
The original poster ^^ was asking for advice if it's better to run lvl.3's in HAC, or lvl.4's in Raven ... so figured the Ferox was mentioned as cheaper alternative for running lvl.3's
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Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2005.09.12 12:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: j0sephine It'll depend on the configuration, really... unless you start putting damage mods on the ships, Cerberus with max skills and tech.2 gear will deal ~135 raw dps (167 dps using kinetic missiles) At the same time, Ferox will do 150 dps in 5x heavy launcher + 2x 200mm rail config, or 165 dps with 5x 200mm rail + 2x heavy launcher config. As you can see, that's nowhere near 50% difference -.o
Yes it'll depend on the configuration. Which means realisitic configurations that could actually work on Lvl4s. No anti-frig guns = dead Ferox on Lvl4 missions. And a rail Ferox has absolutely no tank to cap = dead Ferox. So Ferox is putting out closer to 100 DPS with a rack of heavy launcher IIs and some anti frig guns.
Quote: Extra resistances on the HAC are nice if you're limiting yourself to fighting the Guristas, as is the Eagle's higher cap recharge (Cerberus has 2x shorter recharge time but at the same time 2x less cap, so it boils down to Ferox' rate, with much less cap to work with) ... think these only start to matter if you try to do lvl.4's which doesn't look like that good idea to begin with, if one's trying to make fast money... given the ships' aforementioned damage output ^^;;
Plenty of people run Lvl 4s in Caldari HACs and find them to be quite profitable. I never fail to see at least one Cerb in any of the big agent systems in Caldari space. With the exception of Rachen Mysuna, they can take down any of the Gurista battleships in a reasonable amount of time.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.12 13:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: j0sephine on 12/09/2005 13:34:30
"Yes it'll depend on the configuration. Which means realisitic configurations that could actually work on Lvl4s. No anti-frig guns = dead Ferox on Lvl4 missions. And a rail Ferox has absolutely no tank to cap = dead Ferox. So Ferox is putting out closer to 100 DPS with a rack of heavy launcher IIs and some anti frig guns."
Wait a minute; Cerberus with 5x heavy launcher can deal with lvl.4 frigates, but Ferox with the same 5x launchers and mix of small/medium drones can't..? Unless it boils down to taking advantage of extra range and sniping from 150+ km to kill them before they reach you, don't see why Ferox would _need_ these small guns. o.O;
And well, 5x heavy launcher + 2x tech.2 small rail clocks at ~140 dps still (200mm's don't really offer much in term of damage increase) ... though admittedly, 40 of that dps is limited to short range.
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Altreus
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Posted - 2005.09.12 15:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Mannakin
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I wouldnt use the raven though, id use a hac for level 4's.
A Ferrox will rip through a lvl 3 mission, so its a cheaper alternative to a HAC or its an option for people who can't drive a HAC
The OP is trying to decide between using the hac or the raven. Hac & Raven > Ferox so why waste time and money buying a ferox?
Because the Ferox is a really good all-around combat vessel. It can be a missleboat or a gunship. It can support a large shield tank and in general is about the most adaptable ship out there. Don't forget the awesome bonus's that come with the ship: 5% per lvl shield resistance and 10% bonuse per lvl to hybrid turret optimal range. Not to mention that its cheaper than both of the above ships by more 50% or more. So why buy this ship? I say why buy the above ships!
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Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2005.09.12 20:35:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Toaster Oven on 12/09/2005 20:36:32
Originally by: j0sephine Wait a minute; Cerberus with 5x heavy launcher can deal with lvl.4 frigates, but Ferox with the same 5x launchers and mix of small/medium drones can't..? Unless it boils down to taking advantage of extra range and sniping from 150+ km to kill them before they reach you, don't see why Ferox would _need_ these small guns. o.O;
Exactly. Cerberus does anywhere from 56-66% more damage from it's missiles due to it's bonuses (haven't I said that already?) firing Kinetics which Guristas are weakest to. Which means it can break the tanks on the elite frigs and inties with just it's missiles. Ferox can't do it. I get the impression you've never actually used a Cerb as you can't seem to grasp it's strengths and weaknesses. Of course people are sniping with it. It's the safest way to do missions o.O
Quote: And well, 5x heavy launcher + 2x tech.2 small rail clocks at ~140 dps still (200mm's don't really offer much in term of damage increase) ... though admittedly, 40 of that dps is limited to short range.
Hi, welcome to the real world of Eve. Gurista cruisers orbit at 15-25km and battleships from 20-50km. 150mm II rails will be doing negligible damage at those ranges. So you can figure their effective contribution to anything but anti frig defense as 0
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Jana Brix
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Posted - 2005.09.14 10:14:00 -
[26]
Back to the original question about lvl3 or lvl4 iskwise:
An interesting option here is to run missions for a lowsec lvl3 agent. Doing this in a bs leaves enough room for protective measurements against pirates/playerkillers and a lowsec lvl3 generates more LPs than a lvl4 in highsec. Eg a lvl3 angel extra for nearly 4k LP (with LP enhancers ofc) which can be done in 30-45 mins.
Of course you can say that a lowsec lvl3 has to be compared to a lowsec lvl4 but fitting a wcs for example on a lvl4 fitting would gimp this setup pretty bad and with one wcs you're nowhere near safe against pirates roaming the area. From the safety point of view it's fully legal to compare the lvl4 highsec with a lvl3 lowsec agent.
Direct isk per hour the lvl4 will always win but if you factor in the isk per lp and the fact that you won't struggle on any lvl3 mission the lowsec lvl3 agent is a nice option.
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St Mike
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Posted - 2005.09.14 10:27:00 -
[27]
Doing LowSec Lvl 3 agents in an AF. Decreases travel time, increases fun. Doing it in my Harpy is not as fast as doing it in my Mega (Mega perhaps 30% faster), but hey its much more fun. And its only 1/4 the money u loose when pirated in your Harpy compared to the Mega. And u still easily get 15k LP in 3-4 hours.
------------------------------------------------- I donŠt like it either, but someone has to do it. ------------------------------------------------- |
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