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Zornia Estemaire
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 01:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been using a Navy Domi for the past 4 months for lvl 4 missions. It's staring to get monotonous and would like trying a different ship. I'm leaning towards either a Mach, Vindi, or Kronos. Which would be best? I'd like to not have to depend on drones as with the Domi just for change. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
260
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 01:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I assume you have at least some sp in turrets. Then yes, your best move is to get a turret ship, that way your support skills will be worth something. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
Zornia Estemaire
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 02:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have nearly 12 mil SP in gunnery. But I only have hybrid for T2 guns. Will have T2 arty soon. |
Cage Man
182
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 02:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vindi and kronus are probably very similar in the way you would currently play, except you can move (slowly) and do damage as apposed to the domi which when using sentry's barely moves. I don't believe you will see to much change in the way you play, unless you want to salvage as you shoot. Mach is very different, your survival is dependent on moving. I find it fun to fly as you need to be paying attention. So I guess it depends on your play style. For a fresh change however, i would go mach, even with T1 meta 4 guns it works really well. Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1225
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 07:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
I bought a fleet Typhoon recently and found out that managing three different weapons systems at the same time keeps you occupied and attentive. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
mama guru
Thundercats The Initiative.
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 10:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
A mach is by far the superior ship of the bunch you proposed, if not get a Vargur or Kronos.
Mach is not as passive, tank is not huge so you need to manage range and aggro. Neither is hard with its great speed, range and dps.
______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak. |
Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 15:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Domi is a brick. Mach is flown like a cruiser. Its hard to do better than a Navy Domi though so it seems more like a boredom issue. Vindi or Kronos would be a close transistion while changing tactics enough to make it a fresh approach. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
916
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 16:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
if i were you, i would first train for the vindi and then while you are already flying it train large ACs for the mach.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Could try a railperion for the lulz |
Oska Rus
Solar Storm Insidious Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 23:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
MAch is undisputed king of mission ships. |
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Funky Lazers
shin-ra ltd
236
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 23:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zornia Estemaire wrote:I'm leaning towards either a Mach, Vindi, or Kronos. Which would be best?
Mach>Vindi>>>>Kronos
Simple as that.
Whatever. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 00:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:MAch is undisputed king of mission ships.
while it's a very good mission ship it's hardly undisputed.
Rattle, golem and domi navy issue all give it a run for it's money. |
Athena Themis
Meadows Industrial
128
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 01:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Oska Rus wrote:MAch is undisputed king of mission ships. while it's a very good mission ship it's hardly undisputed. Rattle, golem and domi navy issue all give it a run for it's money.
You forgot to include the drake. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 02:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mach is a class in itself so I won't comment.
I've been flying both Vindicator and Kronos and while objectively Vindi is better, in terms of ISK/hr, I am quite fond of Kronny.
Vindi: + has slightly better gank, + is less skill-intensive, + has bigger buffer (not really needed for PvE, but helps during ohshit moments) - requires significant pimpage - requires good deal of experience to fly properly
Kronny: + has slightly better tank, + easy to fit with T2 modules only, pimping helps but is not required + has shitload of fitting options + uses less ammo - performs a little worse (I stress, a little, I don't have exact numbers at hand but I reckon it's c.a. 15% difference at most)
HTH |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
236
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
I would suggest a mega navy issue decent DPS/tank and not a gank magnet. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
49
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Posted - 2013.04.06 15:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Athena Themis wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Oska Rus wrote:MAch is undisputed king of mission ships. while it's a very good mission ship it's hardly undisputed. Rattle, golem and domi navy issue all give it a run for it's money. You forgot to include the drake.
inside jokes with the person you're mocking doesn't really work that well when nobody else knows what you're talking about |
Senator Lennon
Blazing Sun Dauntless.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 16:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Of those ships I would definitely go Vindicator. They're pretty awesome. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
927
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Senator Lennon wrote:Of those ships I would definitely go Vindicator. They're pretty awesome.
Vindicator = paper dps for paper warriors.
We all know blasters have no range and rails suck, but it's the things that aren't apparent on paper that'll make you regret spending big isk on it.
Make sure you don't find out about the following things for the first time while in mission site: -Locking range is horrible. It turns out 50km isn't enough for many missions. You'll have to refit sebos. -Rail tracking is abysmal. It's not AC. Start moving? Turn on prop? Can't hit. Target far rats, oh right, gotta refit sebos. -Why is this thing not moving? Oh right, speed of a Tempest. -Fit webs to take advantage of web bonus? That's TC slots being taken up. -Armor tank? 7 lows, that's 3 instead of 4 dmg mods. -Shield tank? 5 mids, take away prop and cap booster, 3 mids for tank, no webs for you. Oh wait, sebos... good luck with that tank. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
OP if you have 12m sp in gunnery and are going to have large arty soon, just get the large AC's.
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Oska Rus wrote:MAch is undisputed king of mission ships. while it's a very good mission ship it's hardly undisputed. golem
target painter micro hell
EDIT: I also would LOVE to see a vindi fit that isn't blasters and doesn't suffer from the critical problems listed above. Some first-hand PI tips |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
918
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 20:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Senator Lennon wrote:Of those ships I would definitely go Vindicator. They're pretty awesome. Vindicator = paper dps for paper warriors. We all know blasters have no range and rails suck, but it's the things that aren't apparent on paper that'll make you regret spending big isk on it. Make sure you don't find out about the following things for the first time while in mission site: -Locking range is horrible. It turns out 50km isn't enough for many missions. You'll have to refit sebos. -Rail tracking is abysmal. It's not AC. Start moving? Turn on prop? Can't hit. Target far rats, oh right, gotta refit sebos. -Why is this thing not moving? Oh right, speed of a Tempest. -Fit webs to take advantage of web bonus? That's TC slots being taken up. -Armor tank? 7 lows, that's 3 instead of 4 dmg mods. -Shield tank? 5 mids, take away prop and cap booster, 3 mids for tank, no webs for you. Oh wait, sebos... good luck with that tank. all of these issues can be mended by throwing money at the fit. although the question is why should you when a mach will perform similarly with stock T2 equip.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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Funky Lazers
shin-ra ltd
236
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Senator Lennon wrote:Of those ships I would definitely go Vindicator. They're pretty awesome. Vindicator = paper dps for paper warriors. We all know blasters have no range and rails suck, but it's the things that aren't apparent on paper that'll make you regret spending big isk on it. Make sure you don't find out about the following things for the first time while in mission site: -Locking range is horrible. It turns out 50km isn't enough for many missions. You'll have to refit sebos. -Rail tracking is abysmal. It's not AC. Start moving? Turn on prop? Can't hit. Target far rats, oh right, gotta refit sebos. -Why is this thing not moving? Oh right, speed of a Tempest. -Fit webs to take advantage of web bonus? That's TC slots being taken up. -Armor tank? 7 lows, that's 3 instead of 4 dmg mods. -Shield tank? 5 mids, take away prop and cap booster, 3 mids for tank, no webs for you. Oh wait, sebos... good luck with that tank. QFT
"-Armor tank? 7 lows, that's 3 instead of 4 dmg mods." Since blasters suck at range you also need at least 1 TE, especially if you use AB and not MWD.
All in all, Vindi is not even close to the Mach and I haven't started talking about Kronos, which is just the same as Vindi only 2x times worse. Whatever. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote: All in all, Vindi is not even close to the Mach and I haven't started talking about Kronos, which is just the same as Vindi only 2x times worse.
Apologies for being blunt but if Kronos performed for you at half the level of what similarly fitted Vindicator could do then the problem was with your competence, not with the Kronos. |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 22:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote: All in all, Vindi is not even close to the Mach and I haven't started talking about Kronos, which is just the same as Vindi only 2x times worse.
I wouldn't go that far. The Kronos and the Navy mega have less dps and agility than the vindi but similarly have none of its particular problems with rails. Some first-hand PI tips |
hellcane
Never Back Down
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 23:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zornia Estemaire wrote:I have been using a Navy Domi for the past 4 months for lvl 4 missions. It's staring to get monotonous and would like trying a different ship. I'm leaning towards either a Mach, Vindi, or Kronos. Which would be best? I'd like to not have to depend on drones as with the Domi just for change. IMO out of those three mach/vargur makes the best choice.
Vargur >= mach, unless you are blitzing. Nightmare can be fun if you mission in the right area.
Since you are looking for something different: Golem is a good choice, if you have the missile skills. At least for a few months. The TP cycling and volley counting keep you from being bored....until you get fed up with it.
Though the golem lost a lot of curb appeal when torp animations were nerfed into the ground. |
Funky Lazers
shin-ra ltd
236
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 09:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Funky Lazers wrote: All in all, Vindi is not even close to the Mach and I haven't started talking about Kronos, which is just the same as Vindi only 2x times worse.
Apologies for being blunt but if Kronos performed for you at half the level of what similarly fitted Vindicator could do then the problem was with your competence, not with the Kronos. Edit: on second thought I retract my remark about competence because numbers actually hold. If Vindi performs at, let's say, 90% of Mach and Kronny performs at 80% of Mach then yes, Kronny is twice as worse.
I compare both Vindi and Kronos to Mach.
Sadly Vindi can't even perform at 80% of Mach. The thing about Mach is it has almost 2 times longer range on guns. Almost the same dps, but you also can change the damage type, which makes Mach superior.
@hellcane And no, Vargur is not even close to Mach. Vargur has ~20% less DPS ~45% less agility ~20% less velocity ~2 times worse targeting speed ~10% less range
I can go on and on. No, Vargur is not even close.
Damn, I love holy wars. Whatever. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote: I compare both Vindi and Kronos to Mach.
Sadly Vindi can't even perform at 80% of Mach. The thing about Mach is it has almost 2 times longer range on guns. Almost the same dps, but you also can change the damage type, which makes Mach superior.
Look, I know that Mach is today's king of the hill, I also understand people who swear by Nightmares, CNRs, Golems and so on. And since I have this fetish for pissing against the wind, I have also deep and sincere respect for people doing L4s in assault frigates. Point is, whatever you like to fly, fly it and you have my best wishes.
But when you go to comparison which ship is better or worse, there comes time to separate bullshit from facts and to me the bottom line is actual peformance, be it in ticks, ISK/hr or time to mission finish. So if you say Vindi performs worse than 80% of Mach, I'd love to hear your story, preferrably with some actual numbers in it (no, not paper stats).
Mind you that I haven't questioned Mach's supremacy (though I don't agree that the gap is so big). I only retorted your assertion that Kronos is much worse than Vindicator and both of them are much worse than Mach. At least when we're talking about L4 missions. Nullsec anoms may be quite another story. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
931
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 15:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Funky Lazers wrote: I compare both Vindi and Kronos to Mach.
Sadly Vindi can't even perform at 80% of Mach. The thing about Mach is it has almost 2 times longer range on guns. Almost the same dps, but you also can change the damage type, which makes Mach superior.
Look, I know that Mach is today's king of the hill, I also understand people who swear by Nightmares, CNRs, Golems and so on. And since I have this fetish for pissing against the wind, I have also deep and sincere respect for people doing L4s in assault frigates. Point is, whatever you like to fly, fly it and you have my best wishes. But when you go to comparison which ship is better or worse, there comes time to separate bullshit from facts and to me the bottom line is actual peformance, be it in ticks, ISK/hr or time to mission finish. So if you say Vindi performs worse than 80% of Mach, I'd love to hear your story, preferrably with some actual numbers in it (no, not paper stats).
Gap between Vindi and Mach is more than just 20%. I fly both with max skills, and my Vindi is now an Incursion instead of l4 boat. Not going to pull numbers out of my ass to prove the obvious, btw.
Ppl with the misguided competitive mentality "this is my boat, so I must defend it against the obvious" don't get convinced by words, you should try both yourself instead. Go out the door and witness the sky is blue with your own eyes. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Ppl with the misguided competitive mentality "this is my boat, so I must defend it against the obvious" don't get convinced by words, you should try both yourself instead. Go out the door and witness the sky is blue with your own eyes. Funny you said that because my attitude is precisely because I have flown those ships and in fact I've kept my eye on performance metrics. Sadly no one except me seems to be willing to bring the numbers which actually count.
Point in case: Angel Extravaganza plus bonus. Gun specs at IV, the rest of gunnery and supporting at max, Marauders at IV: - Kronos: typically mission took 42 to 43 minutes, once or twice I came close to 40 (second tick while I was finishing the last or but last ship) - Vindicator: consistently just below 40 minutes, typically 38-39 - Machariel: consistently in 36-37 range
OK, this is just one mission but please also note that this case is quite unfavorable to Gallente ships.
And contrary to what you suggested I do not have this competitive mentality. If you're purely after ISK grinding, go for Mach, period. I defend Kronos because despite its lower performance it's damn fine ship, e.g. for casual missioning or for person who has already invested in hybrid guns, for which Mach may not be immediately viable option. |
Senator Lennon
Blazing Sun Dauntless.
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Senator Lennon wrote:Of those ships I would definitely go Vindicator. They're pretty awesome. Vindicator = paper dps for paper warriors. We all know blasters have no range and rails suck, but it's the things that aren't apparent on paper that'll make you regret spending big isk on it. Make sure you don't find out about the following things for the first time while in mission site: -Locking range is horrible. It turns out 50km isn't enough for many missions. You'll have to refit sebos. -Rail tracking is abysmal. It's not AC. Start moving? Turn on prop? Can't hit. Target far rats, oh right, gotta refit sebos. -Why is this thing not moving? Oh right, speed of a Tempest. -Fit webs to take advantage of web bonus? That's TC slots being taken up. -Armor tank? 7 lows, that's 3 instead of 4 dmg mods. -Shield tank? 5 mids, take away prop and cap booster, 3 mids for tank, no webs for you. Oh wait, sebos... good luck with that tank.
Get a vindicator and start running incursians, although I agree that the vindicator is not extremely versatile in application, at the things it does excel at, it's pretty impressive. |
Funky Lazers
shin-ra ltd
236
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote: - Kronos: typically mission took 42 to 43 minutes, once or twice I came close to 40 (second tick while I was finishing the last or but last ship) - Vindicator: consistently just below 40 minutes, typically 38-39 - Machariel: consistently in 36-37 range
No offence, but you might be doing something wrong. It takes ~19 mins to complete AE in a Mach, minus bonus. Bonus takes around 5-7 mins.
Vindi usually lags behind with 5-6 mins difference and Kronos lags behind Vindi with like 4-5 mins difference. Those stats are for AE.
I mean if you fit Mach wrong and have no idea how to handle it this ship will perform just as any other. Haven't you seen dozens of threads about Marauders saying how sucky they are? It's all because there is a huge gap between Faction BS and them. Whatever. |
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