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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
403
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Posted - 2013.04.07 11:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
Already told you. Never trust a gallente. |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
98
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Posted - 2013.04.07 16:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
The Akidagi system is not vulnerable at the moment. I assure you that the skirmish at the infrastructure hub was incidental and not an effort to seize the system, which has no strategic value for space forces.
It saddens me, however, that the Caldari seem so embittered in their intolerance and mistrust of Gallente, that for the past several days they have berated our representative publicly, and made no effort to assist our efforts to maintain a territorial freeze, by reciprocating our gesture.
The GMVA will continue to analyze the Caldari State response and await a positive reply from your constituent corporations to our overtures to stem the bloodshed. |
Aquila Shadow
Midnight Security Consulting
137
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Posted - 2013.04.07 16:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Well you cant really blame them for not trusting you Julianus, you are still trying to kill them. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword" |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
I can't kill capsuleers, and those are the only people we are fighting.
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
104
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Posted - 2013.04.07 16:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alot of fancy talk for thugs who still shoot down unarmed civilians just because they don't happen to be flying Gallente colors. Watched a non-Milita, unarmed Badger crack apart under a Catalyst's guns in Placid the other day. I am sure they would love to hear though about the cessation of IHub attacks in Caldari space though. |
BloodBird
Mixed Metaphor
117
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Posted - 2013.04.07 16:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Alot of fancy talk for thugs who still shoot down unarmed civilians just because they don't happen to be flying Gallente colors. Watched a non-Milita, unarmed Badger crack apart under a Catalyst's guns in Placid the other day. I am sure they would love to hear though about the cessation of IHub attacks in Caldari space though.
The militias themselves have horribly low standards of recruitment - much like your own organization - and will not punish offenders for piracy while enrolled in their ranks.
Also, for all you know the Badger in question could have been shot down for a variety of other reasons than base piracy. On the other hand, piracy and attacking random people is what your organization and the entity it supports DO. I smell a pot/kettle argument coming soon.
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Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
301
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Julianus Soter wrote:The Akidagi system is not vulnerable at the moment. I assure you that the skirmish at the infrastructure hub was incidental and not an effort to seize the system, which has no strategic value for space forces.
It saddens me, however, that the Caldari seem so embittered in their intolerance and mistrust of Gallente, that for the past several days they have berated our representative publicly, and made no effort to assist our efforts to maintain a territorial freeze, by reciprocating our gesture.
The GMVA will continue to analyze the Caldari State response and await a positive reply from your constituent corporations to our overtures to stem the bloodshed.
Empty words it is, then. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1654
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 19:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
BloodBird wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Alot of fancy talk for thugs who still shoot down unarmed civilians just because they don't happen to be flying Gallente colors. Watched a non-Milita, unarmed Badger crack apart under a Catalyst's guns in Placid the other day. I am sure they would love to hear though about the cessation of IHub attacks in Caldari space though. The militias themselves have horribly low standards of recruitment - much like your own organization - and will not punish offenders for piracy while enrolled in their ranks. Also, for all you know the Badger in question could have been shot down for a variety of other reasons than base piracy. On the other hand, piracy and attacking random people is what your organization and the entity it supports DO. I smell a pot/kettle argument coming soon.
Actually, any member caught shooting a neutral industrial ship would be severely punished.
We have ways of enforcing our rules, after all. |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
455
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 20:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:BloodBird wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Alot of fancy talk for thugs who still shoot down unarmed civilians just because they don't happen to be flying Gallente colors. Watched a non-Milita, unarmed Badger crack apart under a Catalyst's guns in Placid the other day. I am sure they would love to hear though about the cessation of IHub attacks in Caldari space though. The militias themselves have horribly low standards of recruitment - much like your own organization - and will not punish offenders for piracy while enrolled in their ranks. Also, for all you know the Badger in question could have been shot down for a variety of other reasons than base piracy. On the other hand, piracy and attacking random people is what your organization and the entity it supports DO. I smell a pot/kettle argument coming soon. Actually, any member caught shooting a neutral industrial ship would be severely punished. We have ways of enforcing our rules, after all.
Sansha moderates ?
I find it confusing. Are you still supporting Sansha Nation, the one following Kuvakei ? |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
893
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Julianus Soter wrote:The Akidagi system is not vulnerable at the moment. I assure you that the skirmish at the infrastructure hub was incidental and not an effort to seize the system, which has no strategic value for space forces.
Calling your bluff, Soter. I was in the system at the time. It was vulnerable and the I-Hub was being engaged, I promise you this. I also promise you that the efforts of a few Caldari Militia pilots in securing emergency strategical points helped reinforce the hub and prevent it from being further engaged.
Julianus Soter wrote:It saddens me, however, that the Caldari seem so embittered in their intolerance and mistrust of Gallente, that for the past several days they have berated our representative publicly, and made no effort to assist our efforts to maintain a territorial freeze, by reciprocating our gesture.
Here's a gesture for you to reiterate: mine. Pull all your forces back behind the YC 110 established sovereignty lines and surrender every system you've captured back to the State. Operate in an entirely defensive stance, defending Federal systems and not crossing them.
The only time I have ever crossed Federal lines is on my way to the Intaki system to provide support and supplies to them as I have a standing oath and contract of support for them.
Julianus Soter wrote:The GMVA will continue to analyze the Caldari State response and await a positive reply from your constituent corporations to our overtures to stem the bloodshed.
We're still awaiting something worth responding positively to. ~Malcolm Khross
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Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Alot of fancy talk for thugs who still shoot down unarmed civilians just because they don't happen to be flying Gallente colors. Watched a non-Milita, unarmed Badger crack apart under a Catalyst's guns in Placid the other day. I am sure they would love to hear though about the cessation of IHub attacks in Caldari space though.
That was probably us in XMETA or some of the other pirate corps :)
GMVA and other corps/alliances aren't saying we wont kill people as well thats kinda what we do.
What we are saying is we don't plan on taking all those vulnerable systems, while we have the Moratorium and during this time have meanful peace talks while we continue to shoot each other. I mean come on guys your immortal, a little bit of death isn't going to hurt you and well many of us Militia men are nothing more then blood thirsty killers working for a side. We are still here to shoot stuff.
Maybe some day we can all work together to shoot others in our war-zone. I have seen this many times as Gallente and Caldari have put aside our war for a second to kill a blob of neutrals or a group of neutral caps. I still hold out hope that some day the Caldari will relize the freedoms they don't get from their corporate overloads and will rejoin the Federation one day.
Also neutrals are just enemies you haven't listed as enemy yet. All pod pilots that enter lowsec know its a place of death and destruction. Cant blame us for killing a poor little badger, for all we know he was supplying our enemies with weapons. We have every right to attack anyone who enters the war-zone.
Now if we where truly evil as you try and make us seem you would see us ganking freighters in Highsec. But we aren't looking for helpless victims. All our victims choice to enter the war-zone and if they aren't with us they are against us. They knew the dangers of Lowsec when they entered it.
"It's better to die fighting for freedom than to live life in chains."
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Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Here's a gesture for you to reiterate: mine. Pull all your forces back behind the YC 110 established sovereignty lines and surrender every system you've captured back to the State. Operate in an entirely defensive stance, defending Federal systems and not crossing them.
The only time I have ever crossed Federal lines is on my way to the Intaki system to provide support and supplies to them as I have a standing oath and contract of support for them.
To do this would be showing a great sign of weakness on our part and a showing we have a great deal of trust in the Caldari to stay on their side. That isn't going to happen. We need to establish a dilog first and we offered a hand to you saying that GMVA would actively ask our pilots and corps not to flip any more of your systems unless its a major threat to our Federation. We cant control every member of GMVA as we are Gallente and value freedom more then anything, we cant all be wheels in the corporate machine like how the Caldari run things.
I mean come on I don't see Caldari handing over OMS after the DMZ was put into place on Caldari Prime. Nor have we asked them to do so. We know you wont give up such an important system. Just like you know we cant give up Nenna.
We have offered the hand and if you choice to slap its your loss not ours.
Take the hand lets start to work on reunifying the two great empires! |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1654
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:BloodBird wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Alot of fancy talk for thugs who still shoot down unarmed civilians just because they don't happen to be flying Gallente colors. Watched a non-Milita, unarmed Badger crack apart under a Catalyst's guns in Placid the other day. I am sure they would love to hear though about the cessation of IHub attacks in Caldari space though. The militias themselves have horribly low standards of recruitment - much like your own organization - and will not punish offenders for piracy while enrolled in their ranks. Also, for all you know the Badger in question could have been shot down for a variety of other reasons than base piracy. On the other hand, piracy and attacking random people is what your organization and the entity it supports DO. I smell a pot/kettle argument coming soon. Actually, any member caught shooting a neutral industrial ship would be severely punished. We have ways of enforcing our rules, after all. Sansha moderates ? I find it confusing. Are you still supporting Sansha Nation, the one following Kuvakei ?
Yes. We are not moderates, we just do not shoot non-combat vessels that are neutral.
Our ROE is publically available and easily understandable. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
894
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Frozen Fallout wrote: We need to establish a dilog first and we offered a hand to you saying that GMVA would actively ask our pilots and corps not to flip any more of your systems unless its a major threat to our empire.
This is precisely the point I was waiting for one of you to make. I have spoken with Rinai Vero regarding this little clause in your statement.
Allow me to point out to you why your gesture is hollow and meaningless. Here, you have stated "unless it is a major threat to our empire." You claim to hold on to the systems you've taken because "they are a threat" to your empire. You can, have and will use this as justification to take further systems. You advance into one system and suddenly another system is a threat because now it's the border.
First Nennamaila, then Enaluri, then Akidagi. Each successive "step" into our territory opens up new threats to your empire that must be captured to keep your people safe.
No. Your gesture is empty and hollow, your own words reveal that.
Frozen Fallout wrote:We cant control every member of GMVA as we are Gallente and value freedom more then anything, we cant all be wheels in the corporate machine like how the Caldari run things.
If you cannot control your members then you have no business calling yourselves leaders and this declaration is worthless as it cannot and will not be enforced.
~Malcolm Khross
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Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Lyn Farel wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:BloodBird wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Alot of fancy talk for thugs who still shoot down unarmed civilians just because they don't happen to be flying Gallente colors. Watched a non-Milita, unarmed Badger crack apart under a Catalyst's guns in Placid the other day. I am sure they would love to hear though about the cessation of IHub attacks in Caldari space though. The militias themselves have horribly low standards of recruitment - much like your own organization - and will not punish offenders for piracy while enrolled in their ranks. Also, for all you know the Badger in question could have been shot down for a variety of other reasons than base piracy. On the other hand, piracy and attacking random people is what your organization and the entity it supports DO. I smell a pot/kettle argument coming soon. Actually, any member caught shooting a neutral industrial ship would be severely punished. We have ways of enforcing our rules, after all. Sansha moderates ? I find it confusing. Are you still supporting Sansha Nation, the one following Kuvakei ? Yes. We are not moderates, we just do not shoot non-combat vessels that are neutral. Our ROE is publically available and easily understandable.
How are you so sure they where neutral to us? Maybe we knew they where working with the Caldari to supply them weapons in the war-zone.
Also you should know there is no true neutrals in a war-zone. Its either friendly or an enemy. This is war and if they willingly enter a war-zone without choosing a side its their own fault for doing so. No one has forced them to enter the war-zone and its well know that if you do come to Black Rise you can get blown up. News agencies have been reporting this since the start of the war.
Also its not like we can kill pod pilots, we are all immortal, Im sure that pod pilot that lost his hauler is fine and back living in Highsec. |
Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:Frozen Fallout wrote: We need to establish a dilog first and we offered a hand to you saying that GMVA would actively ask our pilots and corps not to flip any more of your systems unless its a major threat to our empire. This is precisely the point I was waiting for one of you to make. I have spoken with Rinai Vero regarding this little clause in your statement. Allow me to point out to you why your gesture is hollow and meaningless. Here, you have stated "unless it is a major threat to our empire." You claim to hold on to the systems you've taken because "they are a threat" to your empire. You can, have and will use this as justification to take further systems. You advance into one system and suddenly another system is a threat because now it's the border. First Nennamaila, then Enaluri, then Akidagi. Each successive "step" into our territory opens up new threats to your empire that must be captured to keep your people safe. No. Your gesture is empty and hollow, your own words reveal that. Frozen Fallout wrote:We cant control every member of GMVA as we are Gallente and value freedom more then anything, we cant all be wheels in the corporate machine like how the Caldari run things. If you cannot control your members then you have no business calling yourselves leaders and this declaration is worthless as it cannot and will not be enforced.
I think you have little understanding of Freedom and of a militia war. We aren't going to stop fighting with you because if we did pull back from the warzone, Im sure the Caldari would just start invading our highsec again and we would just look weak and possibly open up attack from others, like pirates or the Amarr, that would love to conquer our space highsec and lowsec.
We need to start a dialog first and for most. We are offering you a hand and your slapping it away saying "We don't want to talk unless you pull back" You have made no offers of trying to work out a dialog, you just keep saying we are just lieing to you which we aren't.
And this isn't a mandate to all who fight in this war. We just cant do that. Our militia men are free soilders working to stop you from taking all our feedoms away. We aren't like you Caldari who have an iron grip on all your members forcing them to do your bidding. We in Leadership value freedom more then anything. And this war isn't over and you have shown no signs of taking our offer of trying to work out a dialog.
Also remember we are Militia not the formal Military of the Gallente, we aren't in the army. So things work a bit different. The war is still going, so we are still fight as best we can. Welcome to a war of Militias where there isn't a direct chain of command to demand that all Gallete Militia Men stop taking space. Thats something for the empires to work out between themselves, we just want to help it along a bit. We just think its time to open up the discussion after the events of the DMZ and we just don't see the need to kick a dog while it down. But maybe you cant understand that :).
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
803
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Frozen Fallout wrote: How are you so sure they where neutral to us? Maybe we knew they where working with the Caldari to supply them weapons in the war-zone.
Also you should know there is no true neutrals in a war-zone. Its either friendly or an enemy. This is war and if they willingly enter a war-zone without choosing a side its their own fault for doing so. No one has forced them to enter the war-zone and its well know that if you do come to Black Rise you can get blown up. News agencies have been reporting this since the start of the war.
Also its not like we can kill pod pilots, we are all immortal, Im sure that pod pilot that lost his hauler is fine and back living in Highsec.
1. If they are flagged as neutral then they are neutral. We usually extend our ROEs to shooting neutral ships that enter Caldari State military complexes, but we wouldn't shoot a neutral flagged freighter on a gate or station and neither should you - otherwise your ROEs are basically NBSI - like most of the pirates that infest the warzone.
2. There ARE neutrals. All ships that are flagged as being a member of a friendly militia are FREINDLY. All ships that are flagged as being a member of a hostil militia are HOSTILE. You can add in some exceptions according to local diplomacy and, of course, the pirates that infest low security space - but if you consider a neutral flagged non-combatant to be Hostile then only one word describes you. That word is PIRATE.
3. Whilst the Pod pilot is fine, do you know how many baseliner crew serve aboard a large Industrial? 80% of those people are dead now.
Now, let's address your statement regarding GMVA's offer. You summed it up, essentially, as "We will ask our pilots not to target infrastructure hubs that are vulnerable, but we can't actually enforce this."
Congratulations, you've managed to water down water. With the shrugging admission that you can't enforce it and won't even try you've managed to make this the clusters first homeopathic peace treaty.
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Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 22:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Frozen Fallout wrote: How are you so sure they where neutral to us? Maybe we knew they where working with the Caldari to supply them weapons in the war-zone.
Also you should know there is no true neutrals in a war-zone. Its either friendly or an enemy. This is war and if they willingly enter a war-zone without choosing a side its their own fault for doing so. No one has forced them to enter the war-zone and its well know that if you do come to Black Rise you can get blown up. News agencies have been reporting this since the start of the war.
Also its not like we can kill pod pilots, we are all immortal, Im sure that pod pilot that lost his hauler is fine and back living in Highsec.
1. If they are flagged as neutral then they are neutral. We usually extend our ROEs to shooting neutral ships that enter Caldari State military complexes, but we wouldn't shoot a neutral flagged freighter on a gate or station and neither should you - otherwise your ROEs are basically NBSI - like most of the pirates that infest the warzone. 2. There ARE neutrals. All ships that are flagged as being a member of a friendly militia are FREINDLY. All ships that are flagged as being a member of a hostil militia are HOSTILE. You can add in some exceptions according to local diplomacy and, of course, the pirates that infest low security space - but if you consider a neutral flagged non-combatant to be Hostile then only one word describes you. That word is PIRATE. 3. Whilst the Pod pilot is fine, do you know how many baseliner crew serve aboard a large Industrial? 80% of those people are dead now. Now, let's address your statement regarding GMVA's offer. You summed it up, essentially, as "We will ask our pilots not to target infrastructure hubs that are vulnerable, but we can't actually enforce this." Congratulations, you've managed to water down water. With the shrugging admission that you can't enforce it and won't even try you've managed to make this the clusters first homeopathic peace treaty.
Im sorry do we share standings? I was asking how do you know he was neutral to us?
Your overview may have said neutral but are you 100% sure ours did? Maybe he was marked red for working with the Caldari or Pirates or maybe he did something in the past that put him not neutral, but red to our corp/alliance.
Also Im not denying that we attack neutrals just saying your Overview doesn't show our standings. And as I said we have made it very clear to anyone entering the war-zone that they will be shot on sight unless they are a friendly. We have stated many times we are NBSI so that we don't tie our hands in this war.
There are only friends and enemies there are no real neutrals.
Also who cares how many humans die theres like trillions of trillions of those things walking around. We are immortals and we are better then these silly humans. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
804
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 22:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
I believe I DID say 'with exceptions according to local diplomacy'. If he was a member of a hostile organisation then he was RED and nobody blames ANYONE for engaging Reds, do they?
But, let's cut the crap for a moment. He wasn't, was he?
You just said that you habitually engage all neutrals, regardless of status and situation. That makes you no better than a Pirate in my eyes. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
897
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 22:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Frozen Fallout wrote: I think you have little understanding of Freedom and of a militia war. We aren't going to stop fighting with you because if we did pull back from the warzone, Im sure the Caldari would just start invading our highsec again and we would just look weak and possibly open up attack from others, like pirates or the Amarr, that would love to conquer our space highsec and lowsec.
We need to start a dialog first and for most. We are offering you a hand and your slapping it away saying "We don't want to talk unless you pull back" You have made no offers of trying to work out a dialog, you just keep saying we are just lieing to you which we aren't.
And this isn't a mandate to all who fight in this war. We just cant do that. Our militia men are free soilders working to stop you from taking all our feedoms away. We aren't like you Caldari who have an iron grip on all your members forcing them to do your bidding. We in Leadership value freedom more then anything. And this war isn't over and you have shown no signs of taking our offer of trying to work out a dialog.
Also remember we are Militia not the formal Military of the Gallente, we aren't in the army. So things work a bit different. The war is still going, so we are still fight as best we can. Welcome to a war of Militias where there isn't a direct chain of command to demand that all Gallete Militia Men stop taking space. Thats something for the empires to work out between themselves, we just want to help it along a bit. We just think its time to open up the discussion after the events of the DMZ and we just don't see the need to kick a dog while it down. But maybe you cant understand that :).
You think I don't have an understanding of how a militia operates? You assert that you can't trust us not to invade but expect us to trust you in this openly empty declaration? Do you even...? You know what, never mind. I will not dignify this with further response. ~Malcolm Khross
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Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 22:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I believe I DID say 'with exceptions according to local diplomacy'. If he was a member of a hostile organisation then he was RED and nobody blames ANYONE for engaging Reds, do they?
But, let's cut the crap for a moment. He wasn't, was he?
You just said that you habitually engage all neutrals, regardless of status and situation. That makes you no better than a Pirate in my eyes.
You might be right Im not sure in this situation if the guy you saw get blown up was red or neut. And maybe your right some in any militia aren't much different then Pirates who side with Freedom, God, or Control.
I can say are right about XMETA we are a bunch of cockbag thrashers looking for a fight. But there are those who fight with honor on both sides of the isle.
NBSI also has other uses out side of Pirating in this war however, and not every corp that is NBSI is that way because they are pirates. There are many so called neutrals out there working for one side or the other in this war and some work for both sides. Many people don't want limit their ability to fight their enemies. Its easy to make friends with a neutral and have them help you create a trap for your enemies, if we were not NBSI. Neutral "Freinds" can also allow you to easily move ships/items into the war-zone that we are trying to stop from getting there.
Remember I can only speak for XMETA and we are the junk yard dogs of GMVA, Im just barking up a storm at you because you don't smell friendly and well biting isn't allowed here, just in space so Im just barking.
Feel free to ignore me :)
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Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 22:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:Frozen Fallout wrote: I think you have little understanding of Freedom and of a militia war. We aren't going to stop fighting with you because if we did pull back from the warzone, Im sure the Caldari would just start invading our highsec again and we would just look weak and possibly open up attack from others, like pirates or the Amarr, that would love to conquer our space highsec and lowsec.
We need to start a dialog first and for most. We are offering you a hand and your slapping it away saying "We don't want to talk unless you pull back" You have made no offers of trying to work out a dialog, you just keep saying we are just lieing to you which we aren't.
And this isn't a mandate to all who fight in this war. We just cant do that. Our militia men are free soilders working to stop you from taking all our feedoms away. We aren't like you Caldari who have an iron grip on all your members forcing them to do your bidding. We in Leadership value freedom more then anything. And this war isn't over and you have shown no signs of taking our offer of trying to work out a dialog.
Also remember we are Militia not the formal Military of the Gallente, we aren't in the army. So things work a bit different. The war is still going, so we are still fight as best we can. Welcome to a war of Militias where there isn't a direct chain of command to demand that all Gallete Militia Men stop taking space. Thats something for the empires to work out between themselves, we just want to help it along a bit. We just think its time to open up the discussion after the events of the DMZ and we just don't see the need to kick a dog while it down. But maybe you cant understand that :).
You think I don't have an understanding of how a militia operates? You assert that you can't trust us not to invade but expect us to trust you in this openly empty declaration? Do you even...? You know what, never mind. I will not dignify this with further response.
What do you have to trust? We are making a statement not a question. And we are offering to open up a dialog. If you cant even trust us enough to talk to us why even say anything to us at all about this? We will not have open orders to attack your hubs, trust it or not, its just an offer of a hand to help you guys get back up and to also work on that trust thing.
Maybe its to far gone for that. Maybe only the destruction of one side or the other will be the only thing to bring this war to an end. But we are at least trying to work on a different solution to this war then annihilation of the others race. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1654
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 22:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
It's funny because you think I care at all about the pod pilot. |
Rhiannon Dellacorte
Azure Industrial Technologies
74
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Posted - 2013.04.07 22:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Frozen Fallout wrote:Also who cares how many humans die theres like trillions of trillions of those things walking around. We are immortals and we are better then these silly humans.
That's some impressive hiring standards you got there Soter. All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
588
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 23:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
You know Pilot Fallout that it's quite possible to operate in the war zone in particular and low sec space in general without targeting neutrals. EM has done so successfully for quite a few years while still protecting the Republic from hostile militia and criminals. Your attempts at justifying the attacking of neutral vessels, especially industrials, rings very hollow to me.
Also, last time I checked, you're still a flesh and blood human. You may be augmented by technology and your mind warped by a god complex but, still quite human, indeed. I recommend that you seek psychiatric help. Your last statement sounded dangerously close to psychopathy. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
150
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Posted - 2013.04.07 23:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:Frozen Fallout wrote: We need to establish a dilog first and we offered a hand to you saying that GMVA would actively ask our pilots and corps not to flip any more of your systems unless its a major threat to our empire. This is precisely the point I was waiting for one of you to make. I have spoken with Rinai Vero regarding this little clause in your statement. Allow me to point out to you why your gesture is hollow and meaningless. Here, you have stated "unless it is a major threat to our empire." You claim to hold on to the systems you've taken because "they are a threat" to your empire. You can, have and will use this as justification to take further systems. You advance into one system and suddenly another system is a threat because now it's the border. First Nennamaila, then Enaluri, then Akidagi. Each successive "step" into our territory opens up new threats to your empire that must be captured to keep your people safe. No. Your gesture is empty and hollow, your own words reveal that.
Allow me to interject. First, let me be clear that while this Moratorium is in effect we will not be making "exceptions," flipping some Caldari systems and not others. The terms have been stated, and will be abided by until such time as the Moratorium is publicly rescinded. At no time have I characterized the terms of this Moratorium in conversation with you or anyone else as subject to the kind of manipulation as you describe in regards to currently held Caldari territory.
I have maintained that the system of Nennamaila is at this time a considered to be of such Strategic value that unilateral withdrawal on our part is out of the question. Until such time as we can be assured that Caldari reoccupation of the system would not lead to massive Caldari incursion into our territory, it will continue to be held.
To reiterate, we will not seek to take Enaluri, Akidagi, or any other Caldari system under this Moratorium.
Malcolm Khross wrote:Frozen Fallout wrote:We cant control every member of GMVA as we are Gallente and value freedom more then anything, we cant all be wheels in the corporate machine like how the Caldari run things. If you cannot control your members then you have no business calling yourselves leaders and this declaration is worthless as it cannot and will not be enforced.
Come now, do you truly lack that much understanding of the Gallente way of life? Or is this just another attempt to insult our efforts?
We do not control our members so completely because we do not seek to. Part of the very identity of the society that we fight to protect is protection of the rights of minorities and the individual. Those familiar with the history of the Villore Accord know that it was originally signed by little more than a loose compact of Gallente corporations intending to shield each other from War Declarations. As we have grown and changed, our Alliance is now much different and much better organized... but we still strive very much to represent and support a diverse variety of interests.
Some individual pilots may very well disagree with this moratorium. Hell, many pay so little attention to politics that they probably don't even know about it. Those pilots may join operations sanctioned outside GMVA leadership's influence. Many, like myself, feel strongly that this is the right thing to do and have striven to convince our brethren likewise. So, while there may be [GMVA] tickers sparsely distributed among pilots seeking territorial gain (our pilots do get about, after all) that should not be the sole factor by which one evaluates this policy.
Our Leadership and Fleet Command will not be planning, organizing, or supporting attacks on system infrastructure. Our logistics operations will not be supplying ships, ammunition, or other supplies to such operations as we do with other sanctioned strategic goals. If you think these factors are insignificant, then I begin to see part of why the Caldari militia is in the position it is. |
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient Electus Matari
37
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 23:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
Some of the Statements in here remind me on exactly why I resigned my commission in the Gallente Militia. |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
474
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 23:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote: Come now, do you truly lack that much understanding of the Gallente way of life? Or is this just another attempt to insult our efforts?
We do not control our members so completely because we do not seek to. Part of the very identity of the society that we fight to protect is protection of the rights of minorities and the individual. Those familiar with the history of the Villore Accord know that it was originally signed by little more than a loose compact of Gallente corporations intending to shield each other from War Declarations. As we have grown and changed, our Alliance is now much different and much better organized... but we still strive very much to represent and support a diverse variety of interests.
Some individual pilots may very well disagree with this moratorium. Hell, many pay so little attention to politics that they probably don't even know about it. Those pilots may join operations sanctioned outside GMVA leadership's influence. Many, like myself, feel strongly that this is the right thing to do and have striven to convince our brethren likewise. So, while there may be [GMVA] tickers sparsely distributed among pilots seeking territorial gain (our pilots do get about, after all) that should not be the sole factor by which one evaluates this policy.
Our Leadership and Fleet Command will not be planning, organizing, or supporting attacks on system infrastructure. Our logistics operations will not be supplying ships, ammunition, or other supplies to such operations as we do with other sanctioned strategic goals. If you think these factors are insignificant, then I begin to see part of why the Caldari militia is in the position it is.
Ms. Vero,
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this, but your saying that your organization won't plan or aid in any further attacks, but at the same time you won't bring in the reigns on your substituent corps and pilots operating in the area if they on their own or with others continue to act with aggression?
If I may humbly ask, how it is you can expect the Caldari militia to take this in good faith if you telling them in the same breath that your organization will take no means to stop, prevent or even educate your member corporations in the matter of this memorandum? Its appalling that you acknowledge that your making this offer without all of your pilots knowing or even consenting to it. Saying that, while you don't sanction further aggression, you aren't going to stop them from acting outside of the agreement isn't really going to strike reason in the rest of the Caldari people, especially those operating in the war zone.
If your going to issue a statement on behalf of your alliance then your alliance members should be on board and honor that declaration. If they don't then they should be punished. Your organization may not seek to 'control' them but this isn't about control, its about unity. If you can't guarantee that they will follow this memorandum then you have no business appealing to the Caldari militia groups about a cease fire you can't and won't enforce.
I find it extremely disturbing how you seem to acknowledge their right to continue to behave in a way that is contrary to their greater organizations expressed interests and simply call it 'the Gallente way'. I understand about preserving rights and freedom, but not in this capacity.
Please note, this isn't a dig at your organization or an attack, but a vocalization of my understanding based on what you just said. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
Frozen Fallout
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 23:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:You know Pilot Fallout that it's quite possible to operate in the war zone in particular and low sec space in general without targeting neutrals. EM has done so successfully for quite a few years while still protecting the Republic from hostile militia and criminals. Your attempts at justifying the attacking of neutral vessels, especially industrials, rings very hollow to me.
Also, last time I checked, you're still a flesh and blood human. You may be augmented by technology and your mind warped by a god complex but, still quite human, indeed. I recommend that you seek psychiatric help. Your last statement sounded dangerously close to psychopathy.
Oh XMETA are all psychopaths maybe you don't know about us :) we revel in it.
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Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
899
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:
Allow me to interject. First, let me be clear that while this Moratorium is in effect we will not be making "exceptions," flipping some Caldari systems and not others. The terms have been stated, and will be abided by until such time as the Moratorium is publicly rescinded. At no time have I characterized the terms of this Moratorium in conversation with you or anyone else as subject to the kind of manipulation as you describe in regards to currently held Caldari territory.
Really?
I honored you for your integrity but it appears I was mistaken. You don't recall the following conversation, taken directly from a chat log involving you?
Quote: [...] n++[ 2013.04.05 20:27:20 ] Pieter Tuulinen > I suppose I got carried away by the Caldari Prime news and expected something dramatic. This announcement has brought me back to reality. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:28:39 ] Rinai Vero > If we had called a unilateral cease fire, can any of the State Protectorate pilots here really claim that there wouldn't have been immediate offensives into Gallente territory? n++[ 2013.04.05 20:29:10 ] Pieter Tuulinen > Personally speaking, I would have led offensives into Caldari territory. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:29:12 ] Rinai Vero > As I said, we've not even fully retaken the systems lost after the most recent Caldari offensive. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:29:49 ] Pieter Tuulinen > But GMVA has hardly made that their priority - most of your efforts have been Enaluri, Akidagi, Hallanen and similar systems. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:31:49 ] Rinai Vero > I'd be violating the security of our communications if I were to prove it, but our priority following redeployment from conquering the warzone in January was defending Placid, and keeping the Caldari from retaking staging systems in Nenna and Eha. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:32:19 ] Pieter Tuulinen > Why do I see you guys rolling in twenty or thirty deep into Enaluri DAILY then? n++[ 2013.04.05 20:32:31 ] Rinai Vero > Caldari forces hardly limited themselves to Black Rise and The Citadel then. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:33:02 ] Rinai Vero > Because Enaluri is and was a staging system for attacks throughout Placid? n++[ 2013.04.05 20:33:16 ] Pieter Tuulinen > So, when is it enough? n++[ 2013.04.05 20:33:38 ] Pieter Tuulinen > You hold Nenna because you claim it's a staging area. Now Enaluri is where we attack Nenna from? n++[ 2013.04.05 20:33:38 ] Rinai Vero > I don't have the answer for that. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:33:48 ] Malcolm Khross > Your justification is "because these systems are a danger to us, we'll make sure you don't have them." Which only leads to "now these systems are a danger to us, so we have to take them too." n++[ 2013.04.05 20:34:01 ] Malcolm Khross > A half-assed defensive stance is utterly useless. n++[ 2013.04.05 20:34:01 ] Rinai Vero > Aye.
I've emphasized the lines that are most relevant. So tell me again that you never once indicated in a conversation with me that your "moratorium" was subject to such "manipulation."
I've called your bluff with hard evidence. ~Malcolm Khross
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