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Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
772
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 16:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I wonder, my dear Heathens,
Will this tentative peace on Caldari Prime hold for long?
If it should hold and an amicable peace be attained, the State Protectorate and FDU shall certainly find their justifications for hostilities more awkward than before, yes? Fighting over that planet was the cause celebre keeping the war-mill going.
Heth cannot remain in power so long as the State does not contest the planet. They will retake it, or they will not and he will be removed or die of 'natural causes' soon thereafter.
Perhaps both factions will return to a 'cold war' posture and lick their respective wounds for a time.
Perhaps we will again collectively turn our attention to the Matari and their wars of aggression? Will the FDU and the State Protectorate be eager to assist their allies and their conflicts in foreign regions?
Interesting days ahead. Or not, I suppose we shall see.
What say you?
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
581
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oh look, here's the irrelevant Blooder trying to sound all edgy and provocative. Don't you have some children to terrorize or something Vitalia?
What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
140
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
I for one would be more than willing to assist my Minmatar brethren in their fight to free those subjugated by Amarrian slavery. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
773
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Oh look, here's the irrelevant Blooder trying to sound all edgy and provocative. Don't you have some children to terrorize or something Vitalia?
Would you care to share an opinion or some analysis of the situation?
And I'd hardly call any of these questions 'edgy and provocative,' unless you are easily provoked by this sort of inquiry?
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
767
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Posted - 2013.04.05 18:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Speaking entirely personally, I would have to take a long and hard look at remaining part of the CEWPA war. There are signs that other groups are undergoing the same sort of examination of their priorities in the light of this enormous change to the sea state of cluster politics.
You're right that such a dramatic reappraisal of my duty and my life is a little frightening, but I'm sure that there is work for a pilot out there. For example, there is Black Rise to free and defend. There are more pirates in the CEWPA arena than there are FDU forces - and they need to be put in place. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
773
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Speaking entirely personally, I would have to take a long and hard look at remaining part of the CEWPA war. There are signs that other groups are undergoing the same sort of examination of their priorities in the light of this enormous change to the sea state of cluster politics.
You're right that such a dramatic reappraisal of my duty and my life is a little frightening, but I'm sure that there is work for a pilot out there.
There certainly is. *wink*
But I reiterate if this peace holds should we expect the Caldari/Gallente proxy war to 'wind down'?
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Sepherim
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
354
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ironic that you would call someone heathen, being yourself a heretic. And the worst kind, by the way. But lets leave that for another moment.
As for your question, my personal opinion on the matter is that things are too full of mud now to know. One of the first lessons they teach you in sociology or politology subjects is that you can never predict the future, specially without clear, long-term processes (like demography, and even then only to some extent). This is clearly not a long-term process, and definitely not a clear one either, with too many things going on in the middle. So there's no way of telling out how it'll go yet. But I do see two clear ley-lines where the conflict will move through.
-On one hand, we have the internal instability of the State. With Tibus Heth pushed further into the corner, and civil unrest growing not only among pod pilots but general populace, the Caldari are on the brink of change. Where to? Unknown yet, but learly the State can either leave Heth behind and return to how it was, or evolve into a more centralized form of government, maybe along authoritarian lines.
-On the other, the relations with the Federation. The Gallente are taking a stronger stance, and making their points with less fear of using all means necessary, as the attack on the Shiigeru shows. The reaction to this will depend on the capacity of the State to live up to the new risks the Federation is becoming, which in turn will depend on their corporations and their government's transformations.
So, as things stand, too many pieces are currently moving, and in unpredictable directions. It's impossible to know where all will be when the dust settles. Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Ensign Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
773
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Most Interesting
It seems are are indeed witnessing a possible change of... focus for the wider cluster.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
453
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Most Interesting
It seems are are indeed witnessing a possible change of... focus for the wider cluster.
Apparently some people are not learning. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
773
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:Most Interesting
It seems are are indeed witnessing a possible change of... focus for the wider cluster. Apparently some people are not learning.
Even I can acknowledge It is a glorious thing the Sarumites call for.
Perhaps we will see if blood and fire are still pumping in the veins of my Brothers and Sisters.
Perhaps not.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
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Lyn Farel
Kitzless
453
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Posted - 2013.04.05 19:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pointless as long as it remains in the frame of the Proxy War.
Breaching Yulai Convention if not. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
774
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Pointless as long as it remains in the frame of the Proxy War.
Breaching Yulai Convention if not.
Correct!
Although I wonder if CONCORD will give the Empire a free pass like the Republic? I wonder how many planets the Empire can invade before CONCORD calls it even?
Let's not kid ourselves, the answer is 0. CONCORD is biased towards those wretched people as we all know.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Ammos Gravit
Eos Corporation
3
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Posted - 2013.04.05 19:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Why does everyone assume the fall of one planet will change the face of the war, or end it? This war is far larger then Caldari Prime. While retaking it would be a great victory for the State, its loss will not stop the war effort. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
774
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ammos Gravit wrote:Why does everyone assume the fall of one planet will change the face of the war, or end it? This war is far larger then Caldari Prime. While retaking it would be a great victory for the State, its loss will not stop the war effort.
Because dear the entire justification for the war on both sides has always been Caldari Prime, repeated ad nausea.
Although this is perhaps not true, the point is it will be awkward to continue fighting without a new cause celebre.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
775
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Posted - 2013.04.05 19:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ammos Gravit wrote:Why does everyone assume the fall of one planet will change the face of the war, or end it? This war is far larger then Caldari Prime. While retaking it would be a great victory for the State, its loss will not stop the war effort.
I'll be honest, participation in the 'Forever War' is of limited interest to me if the wider war between the State and Federation cools down. I also find it hard to muster the enthusiasm to go and fight for our gallant allies in the Empire, having some sympathy for the plight of the Matari peoples and their efforts to stand on their own two feet.
With the matter of Caldari Prime settled, there's just the sovreignty of Black Rise to fight for. Under the current rules of engagement that's not a war that can ever be truly won or lost and the battle sages say that "If fighting will bring victory, then prepare for battle." The matching statement to that is that it is folly to fight if doing so doesn't contribute to victory. |
Karmilla Strife
Utopian Research I.E.L. Suddenly Spaceships.
54
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
They'll find a new reason and business will continue as usual. Some capsuleers will attempt to gain some moral high ground by abstaining from offensive plexing. In reality they're in it for the kills, just like everyone else. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
774
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 19:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Karmilla Strife wrote:They'll find a new reason and business will continue as usual. Some capsuleers will attempt to gain some moral high ground by abstaining from offensive plexing. In reality they're in it for the kills, just like everyone else.
Astute analysis.
Come to think of it there was a thread on that very non-high ground earlier today!
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Kabuki TransSolar
0
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Posted - 2013.04.05 20:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Ammos Gravit wrote:Why does everyone assume the fall of one planet will change the face of the war, or end it? This war is far larger then Caldari Prime. While retaking it would be a great victory for the State, its loss will not stop the war effort. Because dear the entire justification for the war on both sides has always been Caldari Prime, repeated ad nausea. Although this is perhaps not true, the point is it will be awkward to continue fighting without a new cause celebre.
I think you're right about that, but I'm sure one can be found. After all, out of all the State citizens who have been frothing at the mouth over Caldari Prime for as long as I can remember, how many of them actually lived on Caldari Prime? You can already see the rise of a new symbol in the loss of the Shiigeru. Bio and writing |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
775
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 20:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:Ammos Gravit wrote:Why does everyone assume the fall of one planet will change the face of the war, or end it? This war is far larger then Caldari Prime. While retaking it would be a great victory for the State, its loss will not stop the war effort. Because dear the entire justification for the war on both sides has always been Caldari Prime, repeated ad nausea. Although this is perhaps not true, the point is it will be awkward to continue fighting without a new cause celebre. I think you're right about that, but I'm sure one can be found. After all, out of all the State citizens who have been frothing at the mouth over Caldari Prime for as long as I can remember, how many of them actually lived on Caldari Prime? You can already see the rise of a new symbol in the loss of the Shiigeru.
You make it sound as if I could have bought beachfront property there at any time and just couldn't be bothered. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Kabuki TransSolar
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 21:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Shintoko Akahoshi wrote: I think you're right about that, but I'm sure one can be found. After all, out of all the State citizens who have been frothing at the mouth over Caldari Prime for as long as I can remember, how many of them actually lived on Caldari Prime? You can already see the rise of a new symbol in the loss of the Shiigeru.
You make it sound as if I could have bought beachfront property there at any time and just couldn't be bothered.
Setting aside your ability to have bought beachfront property there at any time up until a few years ago, does it matter? Were you, personally, affected by the ceasefire a century ago? Did you personally live on Caldari Prime before that?
The problem I see with most of the current crop of Caldari nationalists is they seem perfectly happy to throw away what they have now in order to address something that honestly doesn't affect them. Think about it. Heth threw 90% of the Caldari Navy into retaking Caldari Prime. 90%. Leaving the remainder, spread very thinly, to cover things like defending against piracy within the State and, oh, defending against a possible Gallente counterattack somewhere else. That's a hell of a risk he took. Did it work out for him? Yes. The dice favored him. Could it have been a disaster? With flash-ass Foiritan nearing end of term and the distinct possibility of there being a President Blaque? I'll leave that to someone more bloodthirsty to imagine.
The Sansha must be laughing themselves sick. Bio and writing |
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Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
173
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 22:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
I think you're right about that, but I'm sure one can be found. After all, out of all the State citizens who have been frothing at the mouth over Caldari Prime for as long as I can remember, how many of them actually lived on Caldari Prime?
I'm living on M.L.'s little client-State fief!
At least sometimes... In fact, I'm growing bugs that eat tritanium dust. My new neighbor on this frozen island is an eccentric Gallois rancher. We've exchanged stories about the optimal thickness of sheep wool. The sheep here are much larger than my Athran karakul. I keep Seri's guide to Gallente history handy for awkward moments when Blaque's Boys want to see my papers. The fact I recently gained access to Ishukone's jump clone lobbies is also quite handy.
What's the new "loyalist" catchphrase, now? "Half A Home Is Better Than No Home At All?"
I like to remain au currant! |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
778
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 22:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
You're an Amarrian. I imagine the new "Loyalist" catchphrase is 'Deus Vult".
In any case, thanks for your work on detoxing Caldari Prime. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
880
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 22:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Karmilla Strife wrote:They'll find a new reason and business will continue as usual. Some capsuleers will attempt to gain some moral high ground by abstaining from offensive plexing. In reality they're in it for the kills, just like everyone else.
I wasn't aware I was in it for the kills but, I suppose I should thank you for making that clear for me.
So...thanks, I guess? ~Malcolm Khross
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Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 00:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
As it is with Caldari Prime and the DMZ, its in a situation both sides can accept, there will probably be set backs, but hopefully both sides will look forward and do the best of the situation that is, and build on it... Personally id like to see a trade hub be set up by us Capsulars in the area, trade brings stability, it creates and brings things togheter, and it would aid in the rebuilding of Caldari Prime |
Sepherim
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 01:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:You're an Amarrian. I imagine the new "Loyalist" catchphrase is 'Deus Vult".
In any case, thanks for your work on detoxing Caldari Prime.
As it stands, it'd be "Sarum Vult", but I don't think Raiders care much about that in any case. Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Ensign Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
783
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 05:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sepherim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:You're an Amarrian. I imagine the new "Loyalist" catchphrase is 'Deus Vult".
In any case, thanks for your work on detoxing Caldari Prime. As it stands, it'd be "Sarum Vult", but I don't think Raiders care much about that in any case.
I'm doing my best, Sepherim. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 06:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
If hypothetically, the State and Federation were to withdraw from CEWPA mandates, well, one of the greatest advantages of being a corporate military contractor these days is that the work is never-ending. It's just a question of finding the right clients who can provide the necessary deployments and strategic vision.
Outside of State corporations the only other clients I would even consider providing military tenders for would be the Khanid Kingdom, if only that particular blend of Amarrian culture and a nominally progressive society is fascinating to me.
I certainly have no intention of sheathing my blade anytime soon, because in the end business is war, and war is business, and the private military industry remains a growing market. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
399
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 10:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:I wonder, my dear Heathens,
Will this tentative peace on Caldari Prime hold for long? I don't think so. And I hope we will be strong enough to strike first and land blow that gallentes would never anticipate!
Silas Vitalia wrote: If it should hold and an amicable peace be attained, the State Protectorate and FDU shall certainly find their justifications for hostilities more awkward than before, yes? Fighting over that planet was the cause celebre keeping the war-mill going.
Although the planet is ours, it is still in Gallente territory. It is still under threat of gallentean attack. We must deal with gallente at all costs!
Silas Vitalia wrote: Heth cannot remain in power so long as the State does not contest the planet. They will retake it, or they will not and he will be removed or die of 'natural causes' soon thereafter.
Tibus Heth is the most merited of Caldari. He got us the planet after he took position of Executor, not gained position by taking the planet. The planet is ours only because of Tibus Heth. But there is much more left to do, and Tibus Heth will lead us to victory!
Silas Vitalia wrote: Perhaps both factions will return to a 'cold war' posture and lick their respective wounds for a time.
I don't think it will be a good course of action. I believe we should continue pushing gallentes. Pushing and pushing and pushing, until they eventually break under the might of Caldari steamroller.
Silas Vitalia wrote: Perhaps we will again collectively turn our attention to the Matari and their wars of aggression? Will the FDU and the State Protectorate be eager to assist their allies and their conflicts in foreign regions?
Should the Empire require our help, I will gladly come, as I already did earlier. Unfortunately, at the moment we have much to do on our side yet! There are still gallente out there...
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Sepherim
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
356
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Posted - 2013.04.06 14:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Tibus Heth is the most merited of Caldari. He got us the planet after he took position of Executor, not gained position by taking the planet. The planet is ours only because of Tibus Heth. But there is much more left to do, and Tibus Heth will lead us to victory!
I don't think this statement is correct. You may have indeed won the battle on the land , but once lost the battle in space, the planet is effectively under siege. The Gallente have Caldari Prime submit to their will: they can start bombing, deploying troops, giving food... whatever they want. And, being inside Gallente space, the State can do nothing to bring ressources to their own men, reinforce them, make sure they have supplies... unless the Gallente agree to it.
So, as things stand, the Caldari have lost Caldari Prime in all but name. Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Ensign Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
400
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Posted - 2013.04.07 02:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sepherim wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Tibus Heth is the most merited of Caldari. He got us the planet after he took position of Executor, not gained position by taking the planet. The planet is ours only because of Tibus Heth. But there is much more left to do, and Tibus Heth will lead us to victory! I don't think this statement is correct. You may have indeed won the battle on the land , but once lost the battle in space, the planet is effectively under siege. The Gallente have Caldari Prime submit to their will: they can start bombing, deploying troops, giving food... whatever they want. And, being inside Gallente space, the State can do nothing to bring ressources to their own men, reinforce them, make sure they have supplies... unless the Gallente agree to it. So, as things stand, the Caldari have lost Caldari Prime in all but name. Unfortunately, this "treaty" indeed is not in State's interests. It was signed by cowards, who came to Federation on their knees. They are disgrace to Caldari.
But it is not over yet. We have our Executor and we will follow him to Death or Glory! |
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