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Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2011.10.16 21:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
You aren't going to get agreement on this PR, the game has some sim elements in it, enough to give a superficial illusion of being in space (and it has about a middling level of simminess to it as space games go in general), but it's more set up to be a pew-pew game with lots of fast action.
I'd love a game that was weighted more towards sim (with on-board computers handling the tricky physics stuff) and less towards game, but this ain't it, and it's never gonna be it.
The "realism" you're after would slow the game down a lot, and alienate a lot of its current players, and I doubt there are enough people who want more of the simmy element like you and me to make up for their loss.
You'll just have to suck it up and accept the way CCP have sliced the abstractions - they are what they are.
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
425
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Posted - 2011.10.16 21:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Nel Gardier wrote:Time.
The OP haves it. Took 10 minutes to compile an obivous list. Is there not one person here that responds positively or constructively anymore? Yeah noticed that. Ignore it, it's common mate.
Unlike the real world, civility and normalcy aren't required. And for them, they were perplexed at having to read something that didn't involve being an ahole.
And from that, if we really wanted everything "real", we should be able to arrest and execute half the playerbase in Eve Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Black Holes; You could argue Wormholes are black holes, but if they were even remotely similar, they would destroy the solar system they inhabit, and rip apart any visiting ships. (If Minmatar projectile guns can kill a ship, so can massive gravity) You don't know anything about black holes, do you?
The gravity of a black hole is only dangerous if you pass the event horizon (at which point there is no escape and you will eventually be ripped to shreds).
A black hole is simply a gravity well, and objects will happily orbit them, much as they do other large stellar objects.
What God Wants, God Gets, God Help Us All |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
7
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Black Holes; You could argue Wormholes are black holes, but if they were even remotely similar, they would destroy the solar system they inhabit, and rip apart any visiting ships. (If Minmatar projectile guns can kill a ship, so can massive gravity) You don't know anything about black holes, do you? The gravity of a black hole is only dangerous if you pass the event horizon (at which point there is no escape and you will eventually be ripped to shreds). A black hole is simply a gravity well, and objects will happily orbit them, much as they do other large stellar objects.
The gravity of a black hole extends far beyond the event horizon mate; being even somewhat close would kill you. |
Killie
Loki's Marauders Dragoons.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
The event horizon is the point NO matter not even light can escape the black hole. Our ships would be sucked in well before we reached the event horizon. That said I'm fairly happy with the way eve presents things. I know most of it isn't supported by real science but it IS a fun and interesting game. Just try to shrug off the obvious incongruities and enjoy the game for what it is. There are some more realistic space games out there, but I would rather play this one |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Killie wrote:The event horizon is the point NO matter not even light can escape the black hole. Our ships would be sucked in well before we reached the event horizon. That said I'm fairly happy with the way eve presents things. I know most of it isn't supported by real science but it IS a fun and interesting game. Just try to shrug off the obvious incongruities and enjoy the game for what it is. There are some more realistic space games out there, but I would rather play this one
Hell yeah, eve is a blast, I just notice these things & they irk me.
That being said, Eve is a billion times better then any other game I've seen, barring Infinity; Quest for Earth. |
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:35:00 -
[37] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Ohai
-When at FTL speeds, the Blueshift & Redshift are only visible at "The end" of "The Warp Tunnel", when they should be visible (As Greenshift & Yellowshift) all the way to in front of the ship, since the space directly in front of the ship is still approaching extremely quickly, with the rear leaving equally quickly. (Simply put, the whole screen in front of your ship should be blindingly-bright blue, and behind you brilliant red)
I always figured in real FTL flight you would not be able to see anything behind you since light would not be fast enough to hit your camera at all.
But what do I know. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nemesis Factor wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Ohai
-When at FTL speeds, the Blueshift & Redshift are only visible at "The end" of "The Warp Tunnel", when they should be visible (As Greenshift & Yellowshift) all the way to in front of the ship, since the space directly in front of the ship is still approaching extremely quickly, with the rear leaving equally quickly. (Simply put, the whole screen in front of your ship should be blindingly-bright blue, and behind you brilliant red)
I always figured in real FTL flight you would not be able to see anything behind you since light would not be fast enough to hit your camera at all. But what do I know.
Space would be red-shifted, you wouldn't see any stars or anyhting like that. |
Mixne
More Money More Problems
10
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
If only EVE were a science fiction video game. That would just solve all of the issues listed in OP. |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
I loves my U-boats in space. ALAAARRRRMMMMM!! |
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Mister Crispy
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
2
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Posted - 2011.10.16 22:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
I sort of agree. The first part of the OP would add more interesting crap to look at. And who doesn't want that?
The second part would add a bunch of complex crap that fleets would have to take into consideration. And well, "complex stuff that players need to take into consideration" is what makes spreadsheets in space, spreadsheets in space.
I feel that for gameplay purposes, ships would have to keep handling less like real spaceships, and more like submarines/airplanes, though. For example, for a starfighter (X-Wing) to handle like a fighter jet (f-14/SU-27/whatever), the maneuvering thrusters would have to be 8x more powerful than the main thruster. That would just look too weird.
Also, black holes are different than OP thinks. If the Sun magically turned into a black hole, the planets'/comets' orbits wouldn't change at all. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mister Crispy wrote:I Also, black holes are different than OP thinks. If the Sun magically turned into a black hole, the planets'/comets' orbits wouldn't change at all.
A black hole the size of the sun would eviscerate the whole solar system, the amount of gravity (Density really) per M3 in a black hole is much higher than in a star, and the planets would need to orbit farther/faster to stay in orbit. The planets would spiral in. |
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Nemesis Factor wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Ohai
-When at FTL speeds, the Blueshift & Redshift are only visible at "The end" of "The Warp Tunnel", when they should be visible (As Greenshift & Yellowshift) all the way to in front of the ship, since the space directly in front of the ship is still approaching extremely quickly, with the rear leaving equally quickly. (Simply put, the whole screen in front of your ship should be blindingly-bright blue, and behind you brilliant red)
I always figured in real FTL flight you would not be able to see anything behind you since light would not be fast enough to hit your camera at all. But what do I know. Space would be red-shifted, you wouldn't see any stars or anyhting like that.
So I was kinda right, just instead of black, you see red? |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nemesis Factor wrote:
So I was kinda right, just instead of black, you see red?
Yeah, you were pretty spot-on :) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
172
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
eve already has black holes
the forums, for example |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
4
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Actually Paragon, there is a question I would like to ask you ... Do you believe in a religion and do you question its authenticity and message? |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Actually Paragon, there is a question I would like to ask you ... Do you believe in a religion and do you question its authenticity and message?
I'm not sure how to respond lol
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Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
4
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
I ask because you should apply the same conceptual process to any work of fiction and find gaping flaws.
Eve is only about friendship and communication - not about a pixelated work of art |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Klandi wrote:I ask because you should apply the same conceptual process to any work of fiction and find gaping flaws.
Eve is only about friendship and communication - not about a pixelated work of art
Hmmm.....
This thread is less of an "FIx IT NAO" thread, and more of "This list of things irks me occasionally" thread. I would ideally like to see these in a given game, but in the end, it's just an immersion issue.
IMO |
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:55:00 -
[50] - Quote
Oh this thread again.
except Op has spent much more time than usual typing out and justifying it.
Time well spent? |
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Ascendant Sean
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Mister Crispy wrote:Also, black holes are different than OP thinks. If the Sun magically turned into a black hole, the planets'/comets' orbits wouldn't change at all. A black hole the size of the sun would eviscerate the whole solar system, the amount of gravity (Density really) per M3 in a black hole is much higher than in a star, and the planets would need to orbit farther/faster to stay in orbit. The planets would spiral in. A black hole with the same mass as the Sun would not alter the positions of any solar bodies. The loss of an external energy source would have some tricky consequences for us, though. Entropic Earth, worst Earth. |
Ascendant Sean
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Klandi wrote:I ask because you should apply the same conceptual process to any work of fiction and find gaping flaws.
Eve is only about friendship and communication - not about a pixelated work of art Hmmm..... This thread is less of an "FIx IT NAO" thread, and more of "This list of things irks me occasionally" thread. I would ideally like to see these in a given game, but in the end, it's just an immersion issue. IMO
My immersion has been affected far more by the message "you must leave your ship before you can clone jump" while STANDING IN A ROOM. |
Mister Crispy
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
2
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Mister Crispy wrote:I Also, black holes are different than OP thinks. If the Sun magically turned into a black hole, the planets'/comets' orbits wouldn't change at all. A black hole the size of the sun would eviscerate the whole solar system, the amount of gravity (Density really) per M3 in a black hole is much higher than in a star, and the planets would need to orbit farther/faster to stay in orbit. The planets would spiral in.
Gravitational attraction is based on mass and distance. For purposes of gravitational attraction, a star and a black hole are EXACTLY the same, unless one of the objects you're measuring gets close enough to the black hole to such a degree that if the black hole were a star with equal mass, the object would be inside the star.
In other words, a star with mass X and a black hole with mass X are the same (as far as acceleration and gravity are concerned), unless one of the objects you're measuring gets closer to the black hole than Y, where Y is the star's radius. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ascendant Sean wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Mister Crispy wrote:Also, black holes are different than OP thinks. If the Sun magically turned into a black hole, the planets'/comets' orbits wouldn't change at all. A black hole the size of the sun would eviscerate the whole solar system, the amount of gravity (Density really) per M3 in a black hole is much higher than in a star, and the planets would need to orbit farther/faster to stay in orbit. The planets would spiral in. A black hole with the same mass as the Sun would not alter the positions of any solar bodies. The loss of an external energy source would have some tricky consequences for us, though. Entropic Earth, worst Earth.
Bro, if there was a black hole the size of (Not the mass of) the sun, the gravitational pull would be much higher simply because it's massively denser; the planets would survive if they moved faster or orbited farther, and expended more energy doing so. If they didn't, they would spiral gradually
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Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.16 23:59:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mister Crispy wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Mister Crispy wrote:I Also, black holes are different than OP thinks. If the Sun magically turned into a black hole, the planets'/comets' orbits wouldn't change at all. A black hole the size of the sun would eviscerate the whole solar system, the amount of gravity (Density really) per M3 in a black hole is much higher than in a star, and the planets would need to orbit farther/faster to stay in orbit. The planets would spiral in. Gravitational attraction is based on mass and distance. For purposes of gravitational attraction, a star and a black hole are EXACTLY the same, unless one of the objects you're measuring gets close enough to the black hole to such a degree that if the black hole were a star with equal mass, the object would be inside the star. In other words, a star with mass X and a black hole with mass X are the same (as far as acceleration and gravity are concerned), unless one of the objects you're measuring gets closer to the black hole than Y, where Y is the star's radius.
I was assuming he meant the size of.
If it has the same mass, you're right. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
72
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Posted - 2011.10.17 01:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Ohai
-Multiple star systems; We never see any sort of double, triple or quadruple stars in a given system, there's always one solitary star.
Wormspace has many binary and triple star systems
Paragon Renegade wrote: -Asteroid belts defy all logic:
*Asteroids orbit hundreds of thousands of KM apart *A belt of that size & spacing is actually physically impossible in such close proximity to a planet; the asteroids would Form a tenuous ring around the planet, or they would condense into a planetesmial beforehand (Before they ever orbited the planet)
this one i have to agree with.......... asteroid belts are small............ they should be so large it should require warps from one roid to the next. Also we should be allowed to install mining outposts onto large asteroids.... but they should also require protection.
ice belts also need to be omni ice types............. lets be real........ water (ice) contains 3 things............. hydrogen, oxygen, and Deuterium aka heavy water
helium should be harvested from stars and nitrogen for cold gas giants. |
Celery Man
Talocan Mining And Industrial Talocan United
2
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Posted - 2011.10.17 03:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:-Vacuum physics; Eve online's ships handle like submarines more than spacecraft. It's as if there's an invisible medium, with the ships plowing through that. We live in an area of space where the Higgs Field is extra thick and chunky.
I was just going to point out how insanely retarted it would be to try to use real world vacume physics over the internets, but now that ive tried to find out what a higgs mechanism is and my head is hurting.
Also - were in another dimension/time/we dont even know - just keep that in mind. |
TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.17 06:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
don't bully mentally disabled people, it's wrong. what you think next will happen now |
Guy Grand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.10.17 07:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Celery Man wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:-Vacuum physics; Eve online's ships handle like submarines more than spacecraft. It's as if there's an invisible medium, with the ships plowing through that. We live in an area of space where the Higgs Field is extra thick and chunky. I was just going to point out how insanely retarted it would be to try to use real world vacume physics over the internets, but now that ive tried to find out what a higgs mechanism is and my head is hurting. Also - were in another dimension/time/we dont even know - just keep that in mind.
Wasn't there something about the warp engines always being powered up and creating a "drag" effect from generated inertia when they weren't warping a ship through space? I remember reading that from somewhere...
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Orion GUardian
54
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Orion GUardian wrote:It isn't even proven that Wormholes are possible in the Real world, so why should there be stable ones? And the Universe is only 6000 years old. There's more than enough evidence to support the existence of black holes.
You DO know that Black Holes are an entirely different thing than Wormholes do you?
And sry if I was unclear, Iw as talking about Wormholes capable of transporting large parts of matter over a long distance. Not small wormholes transporting a few atoms etc. |
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