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HankMurphy
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Posted - 2005.09.12 16:36:00 -
[1]
wow. I'm no newb, but i'm no God of Space either. I have been able to handle ANYTHING eve has thrown at me, pvp or pve alike.
My boggle right now is, what is the most effective way of taking down an Ishtar with another HAC?
Minmatar HAC pilot myself (use both). Would love to hear ideas, true stories, ship setups blah blah blah.... Looking for 1v1 scenarios only.
All I've come up w/ myself is close range Vaga w/ NOS and Smartbomb. Haven't tested it yet. I think I will most likely get out NOS'd, not to mention my ignorance involving the Tech II drones, will the SB even hit them?
Thanks All!!
***"Weren't you paying attention? Nintendos pass through anything." -Col. Jack Oneill***
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EB Xile
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Posted - 2005.09.12 16:46:00 -
[2]
I fly the ishtar, and a zealot at 20-30km starting off is always bad news. any ship that is ranged that can attack from 15km and stay away from web range/nosf range. The cerebrus has been pleasantly surprising to me lately. with the proper skills cerebrus is REALLY good against the ishtar. most of it is skill, and staying at a decent range.
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Don't look at me like that, you knew I was posion when you picked me up! |
dalman
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Posted - 2005.09.12 16:58:00 -
[3]
Never flown HACs... But a Cerberus with a 15km webbifier, killing off the drones first?
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Moridan
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Posted - 2005.09.12 17:13:00 -
[4]
If you can neutralize its drones, an ishtar will then be mostly neutralized. as a minny pilot, you have the luck of not needing cap for your guns, so if you can remove the threat of drones, you can get inside and blast em away. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Soros
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Posted - 2005.09.12 17:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: dalman Never flown HACs... But a Cerberus with a 15km webbifier, killing off the drones first?
Any hac with a 15k webber then.....
-= Soros =-
BoB
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HankMurphy
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Posted - 2005.09.12 17:19:00 -
[6]
Obviously, any approach to defeating these things must first involve how to best deal w/ the Ishtars drones and NOS (since most pilots use two NOS). Staying out of range of said Drones and NOS is out of the question in a 1v1 pvp duel. All the Ishtar is gonna do is warp out.
Along that line of thought, one has to expect that target will be cruisin w/ a WCS (at least one) and prepare accordingly. So.... that brings us in even closer if we wanna keep our prey from leaving the party.
***"Weren't you paying attention? Nintendos pass through anything." -Col. Jack Oneill***
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Rufus Roughneck
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Posted - 2005.09.12 17:42:00 -
[7]
Smartbomb and beams on a sac ?
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.09.12 18:12:00 -
[8]
Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly.
HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers
MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector
LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners
Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up.
This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers.
Custom Sigs Made! Gallery Link: http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/ |
Jokastis
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Posted - 2005.09.12 18:22:00 -
[9]
I believe that you tested that setup with the 4 smart bombs and 2 heavy launchers. But those all atleast have a 10 second rof, and won't do that much damage unless you absolutely know the lowest resist of the ishtar. The best it would be is a draw. Sac would kill all the drones with smart bombs for sure. Ishtar would Nos and repair against that weak of an offensive from the Sac. But once that Sac runs out of cap injectors, the ishtar could slowly shoot it to death with whatever guns it had fitted whilst still nosing it.
the second poster was right as far as I could tell. Just stay and range, and you can kill the ishtar before the drones run through your tank, ( if you have a decent tank )
But then again most ishtar pilots fit some type of jamming or dampening system, so it is always an interesting ordeal when flying against an ishtar pilot.
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2005.09.12 18:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly.
HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers
MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector
LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners
Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up.
This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers.
Wrong. You'll be able to effectively neutralize an Ishtar's offensive capability, but there are two fundamental problems with your setup. First of all, most Ishtar's carry Medium Nos/Neut. Even if you destroy the Ishtar's drones (and he's smart enough not to deploy his reserves just yet), any reasonably setup Ishtar will just tank the pathetic damage of heavy missiles and your bombs by stealing your cap and using it to fuel himself.
Cap injectors you say? In a stalemate, all the Ishtar has to do is a) call in friends or b) wait until you run out of charges.
Once you're out of cap from the smartbombs and repping, the Ishtar will deploy his reserve drone set and eat you.
My overall point is that Sacrelige's and Ishtars are evenly matched. Although Ishtar's have about 10x the firepower, the Sacrilege's tanking ability cancels it out. Sacrilege's have pathetic damage output, and the reverse is true. Unless you're looking for a long fight, my suggestion is to make sure you bring backup when engaging an Ishtar with a Sacrilege.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.12 18:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: HippoKing on 12/09/2005 18:58:55
Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly.
HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers
MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector
LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners
Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up.
This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers.
you are kidding?
downtime will come before those 2 launchers break a vamptar's tank
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siim
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Posted - 2005.09.12 19:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly.
HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers
MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector
LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners
Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up.
This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers.
Clearly u have never used this setup
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Bizarro Jack
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Posted - 2005.09.12 20:38:00 -
[13]
lets review shall :)
Only one or two smartbombs is senseable, due to their pathetic DPS.
Cap Injectors are only good as an "OH ****!" last resort (and even then they are basically a waste of a slot). This is not to mention what a pain in the arse it is to stay supplied with the charges for them.
Ishtar is a worthy enemy, but it simply cant be as invincible as it seems. We have yet to hear any EFFECTIVE fittings that doesn't let the Ishtar warp out when the going gets rough.
I'm seeing the bandwagon getting pretty full with pilots in ishtars. It seems to be the latest "i win" button. In the famous words of Walter Sobchak 'This aggression will not stand, dude'
Has anyone out there had a successful setup that they use vs these things on a regular basis? Or does everyone get all antsy in the pantsy and warp out when they see them? :P
"Let's get on the wire. Tell every squadron around the world how to shoot those ****ers down." - General Grey, Independence Day
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Mimiru
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Posted - 2005.09.12 21:16:00 -
[14]
throw in a little jamming, problemsolved4u. Just have to have enough of a tank to kill the drones
<Ap0k> "MIM: Like Gangrenous Body Parts without the amputation!" |
benwallace
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Posted - 2005.09.12 21:29:00 -
[15]
uhm yes 14-15 heavy drones (maybe even t2) is not tankable in hac they *****with dps and some ishtar pilot go all ns in high meaning you will not be able to out suck it on a normal everyday setup hac it is the ultimate hac ---------------------------------------------------
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.09.12 21:42:00 -
[16]
Vagabond with AC's: pwn his drones, then kill the ship itself. You're not very cap dependant. Just need a good micro vs the 14-15 heavys. ---------------
VIP member of the [23] |
benwallace
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Posted - 2005.09.12 21:58:00 -
[17]
micro won't kill heavy drones fyi ---------------------------------------------------
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.09.12 22:11:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kerby Lane on 12/09/2005 22:13:22
Originally by: Sadist Vagabond with AC's: pwn his drones, then kill the ship itself. You're not very cap dependant. Just need a good micro vs the 14-15 heavys.
vaga will most probably die way before that. Dont forget that many Ishtar pilots use 1-2 tracking distruptors.
I tanked Ishtar in Sacri and killed his drones one by one but I dont think I had a chance to break his tank 8(
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.09.12 22:13:00 -
[19]
kiting it at 25km in a 650 II setup vagabond is your only hope, and then you've gotta hope he aint running a pair of tracking disruptors otherwise your not gonna hit anything, not with any decent damage anyway. Same with a zealot, cept the disruptors will have a much worse effect on a zealot with its lack of falloff.
smart bombs are all well and good but any smart ishtar pilot will recall his drones the minute he sees them go off. 2 heavy launchers wont even scratch an ishtars tank. That sacriledge setup is a bit crap really. Cant see that killing anything
Basically the ishtar is pretty much uber for 1on1 HAC v HAC. It packs everything that can kill another HAC (NOS + the right dmg type). It also has EW, which most HACs wont like much. Saying its an "i win" button is not strictly true. A NOS Domi with its drones + tank and a bit of EW will kill most BS 1on1 but its still considered a pretty crap BS (even though it is infact the best all round battleship imo).
The reason the ishtar is so popular is because in the BS field, every1 is concerned with doing max DPS all the time, and the domi falls short. With HACs however, its about functionality and what your ship can do. In this aspect, the Ishtar is king, as is the domi in the BS field but most people will ignore to try and score the highest DPS they possibly can.
My Latest Vid: Linky |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.12 22:19:00 -
[20]
tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones. ------
FERRET DEMOCRACY |
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.09.12 22:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Eyeshadow kiting it at 25km in a 650 II setup vagabond is your only hope, and then you've gotta hope he aint running a pair of tracking disruptors otherwise your not gonna hit anything, not with any decent damage anyway. Same with a zealot, cept the disruptors will have a much worse effect on a zealot with its lack of falloff.
There is 2 problems with 25 kms range.
1. You need faction warp distruptor. 2. Many ( most ?) Ishtar pilots use tracking distruptors.
With Domi warp distruptor I will go for Cerb.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
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Posted - 2005.09.12 22:25:00 -
[22]
I'm curious how you all setup your Ishtars. I have a generic setup that I can take into any battle (anything that's not blobbing) and be confident I stand a good chance.
I won't spill it just yet here tho. Let's see some setups :-)
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benwallace
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Posted - 2005.09.12 22:26:00 -
[23]
hmm you do know ishtar drones can attack to 40km+ right bonuses ftw ---------------------------------------------------
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.09.12 22:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: benwallace hmm you do know ishtar drones can attack to 40km+ right bonuses ftw
actually its 70km with max skills but heavies are pretty damn slow, not to mention drone Ai isnt exactly uber. They regularly get stuck on each other or dont MWD to target when they should and stuff.
Ive found that using heavies outside of about 20km is a bit crap. Lights on the other hand are good fun to send after a ceptor thats 60km away though of course, they do nothing against a HAC
My Latest Vid: Linky |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.09.12 23:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Eyeshadow
The reason the ishtar is so popular is because in the BS field, every1 is concerned with doing max DPS all the time, and the domi falls short. With HACs however, its about functionality and what your ship can do. In this aspect, the Ishtar is king, as is the domi in the BS field but most people will ignore to try and score the highest DPS they possibly can.
You're missing one big point. The Ishtars drones does the same amount of damage as the Domis. The Domis drone DPS is much less compared gank battleships but the Ishtars is not much less then gank HACs. The Ishtar does great damage as well as being a tactical nightmare.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.12 23:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jim Raynor tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones.
believe me thy do, vaga couldnt hit me at all when I disrupted him
ok, I was in frig, but anyway
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.12 23:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Jim Raynor tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones.
believe me thy do, vaga couldnt hit me at all when I disrupted him
ok, I was in frig, but anyway
that's odd last time i used two on a muninn he mwd humped me and hit me just fine. ------
FERRET DEMOCRACY |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.12 23:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Jim Raynor tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones.
believe me thy do, vaga couldnt hit me at all when I disrupted him
ok, I was in frig, but anyway
that's odd last time i used two on a muninn he mwd humped me and hit me just fine.
must have been a lucky bastard
But that are the drawbacks of Tracking Disruptors. You cant be sure thy work, and your teammates ask you why your sitting there doing nothing
buhuu, one day Ill disrupt them all!!!
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.09.12 23:57:00 -
[29]
Well, if he can keep the transversal very low, I can see that happening. Projectile weapon falloff is big, afterall, so they arn't as sensitive to the range disruption. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.09.13 07:44:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Eyeshadow on 13/09/2005 07:44:45
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Eyeshadow
The reason the ishtar is so popular is because in the BS field, every1 is concerned with doing max DPS all the time, and the domi falls short. With HACs however, its about functionality and what your ship can do. In this aspect, the Ishtar is king, as is the domi in the BS field but most people will ignore to try and score the highest DPS they possibly can.
You're missing one big point. The Ishtars drones does the same amount of damage as the Domis. The Domis drone DPS is much less compared gank battleships but the Ishtars is not much less then gank HACs. The Ishtar does great damage as well as being a tactical nightmare.
Actually the DPS of an ishtar's drones is a fair bit lower than a gank HAC. 15 beserkers dont even hit 300 DPS. Its only with 15 tech2 ogres that it hits 400 DPS. Your average zealot or deimos will easily hit that figure
Of course, the ishtar has a lot more going for it than damage
My Latest Vid: Linky |
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