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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:15:00 -
[571] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote: - Reduce the base armor from 8000 (base) down to ~5500
As usual prom has gone full ****** again.
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wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:15:00 -
[572] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I understand that MANY of you (if not the majority) use the Mega as a fully plated low-sec gatecamping machine, and you *could* still do that. But why would you? The Hyperion would now be the same price and does the job better (even in the Megas current state). Like the Tempest, the new Megathron is one step closer to becoming a roamers DREAM battleship.
So we're back to plating the ship with an active tank bonus?
I thought tiericide was about fixing stuff, not shuffling it around. Is it so god damned hard to give Gallente a decent gang BS? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3037
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:19:00 -
[573] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I'm not entirely sure the participants in this thread know exactly what's going on here. First, you need to recognize that the prices will be normalized somewhat. I'd like to see them all down to Tier1 prices, but that's probably just a pipe dream. That means Hyperions won't be costing 250+mil. Second, the passive tanking capacity for these ships (as a whole) has been averaged out somewhat. Yes, they are weaker than they currently are (in some cases), but they take on new strengths in addition to the drawbacks. THE DOMINIXI don't see what the complaints are about. I've been playing this game since 2006, and I can probably count on one hand, the number of times I've seen a Dominix (other than my own) sporting a full rack of large guns. One or two may be a bit more common, but for the vast majority of players, medium guns and/or neutralizers are used. The proposed changes will not change how most players use this ship. They will improve upon the ships drone-use abilities, at the cost of losing a potential (and awful) high dps setup. It's a good change. THE HYPERIONTo me, this is the only *bad* change. That's not to say the ship is bad with these changes, but more that is loses its character. The Hyp is known for two things; its damage output and its huge active tank. The proposed changes remove one or the other, unless you wish to lose mobility. What being done here is they have given you the option to add the amount of ehp that you potentially could have gained from a second rep. This isn't terrible, but it goes against what the Hyperion has always been known for (active tanking). The Hyperion is best when using multiple reps. That simply isn't feasible without 2 cap injectors, and dropping tackle (or propulsion) seriously limits the ships own ability to apply damage without assistance. The Rokh & Maelstrom do not have this issue, and the Abaddon is different style of ship entirely. To me, the best solution for the Hyperion is also the simplest. - First, give back the 5th mid slot - Second, remove a high slot - Third, allow it to field 5 heavy drones - Reduce the base armor from 8000 (base) down to ~5500 - *maybe* increase tank bonus to 10% This would result in a 7/5/7 + 125/125 situation, which would be ideal. The 7th low allows players to either regain that extra bit of armor now lost, OR field damage/resists/rep to take advantage of the ships bonuses. The difference between flying a Hyperion over a new Mega is that the Mega becomes the guerilla fighter, and the Hyperion remains the front-line brawler. THE MEGATHRONThe level of complaining here is perplexing. Players have been begging for a way to make BS more viable ships for roaming around, yet when they're given what want they don't recognize it. The new Megathron (and Tempest by association) is a boss. I understand that MANY of you (if not the majority) use the Mega as a fully plated low-sec gatecamping machine, and you *could* still do that. But why would you? The Hyperion would now be the same price and does the job better (even in the Megas current state). Like the Tempest, the new Megathron is one step closer to becoming a roamers DREAM battleship. For both the Tempest/Mega that get fit with shields, you now have a mobile battleship capable of countering Tornados/Megathrons, while possessing far greater defenses. For both the Mega/Tempest that get fit with armor, you now have a durable ship with good hp that can abuse AARs & MJDs. Get in a fight, kill/neut out ships with scramblers, then MJD away when things get hairy (MJD are unaffected by LR points & bubbles). There is quite literally nothing wrong with this thing, and I think the negative light it's getting is mostly caused by a narrow field of vision. Domi & Mega are good changes. The Hype becomes *better*, but loses all of its character (so fix it).
Here's the thing about MJDs and 5 mids.
You don't need 5 mids.
I have, sitting in one of my hangars, a Navy Mega running MWD + MJD, with 150k EHP, 600 DPS @ 40k, 450 DPS @ 85k, 300 DPS @ 140k,and a MWD speed of 920 m/s. It does not need 5 mids to accomplish this - it could do it with 3. Its stats come from its lowslots - all 8 of them. Giving the megathron 5 mids with the excuse of letting it dual prop is frankly absurd. It would be better served dual propping with a 7-4-8 layout and the CPU boost it so desperately needs.
Regarding shield tanking it - 5 mids doesn't allow for a sturdy shield tank. It turns the ship into a DPS platform and little else - one of those niche ships best served as surprise DPS in a gang once something big is tackled. This role is narrower than its current role.
What I want to see is Gallente having a viable option for fleets. It would have to be either the Megathron or Hyperion, as drones to not mesh well with fleets. As the Megathron is far, far closer to this niche currently and has a history of fleet usage, it is my preference for the role. The Hyperion is already the "you could turn this into a shield tanked glass cannon if you really wanted to" ship. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
186
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:20:00 -
[574] - Quote
Before these changes:
Good things about the Dominix; versatile, can go gank or tank without sacrificing to much of either. Can be a logistics platform, a neut platform or a damage platform. A 'spare' mid slot for eccm, second medium cap booster, second tackle, sensor booster.
Bad things about the Dominix; tracking isn't great (although aided by spare mid slot and lower tier guns) and PG is somewhat low so that it cannot fit railguns and a reasonable tank without fitting mods. It's pretty slow. Scan res kinda low.
Good things about Megathron; spare high for loltorp, neut or remote rep. Good tracking with neutrons. Good DPS from guns as well as 5 heavies/sentries. Possible to fit a dual lar tank but not really advised with how they underperform. Enough mids to not 'lose' something (like the Geddon)
Bad things about Megathron; CPU is a little low (about 30 more would be nice). It's a little slow for a face rapey blaster boat. It doesn't have a 'spare' mid. Can res kinda low.
Good things about Hyp; Can fit dual cap boosters and tackle.
Bad things about Hyp; 4 heavies instead of 5 and 0 spare drones. Fitting higher a rack of neutrons is a chore even with 1 cap booster, fitting rails becomes more challenging without a shield tank. Currently armor repairers overall are a bit rubbish. 6 lows means no space for utility low. it NEEDs 2 cap boosters if it is to make use of a LAR. Base targeting should be higher. |
Eternal Corrosion
I hope you were insured POWERED.
15
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:21:00 -
[575] - Quote
I think everything has been said, Gallente Battleships are the loosers here, they dont have a fleet option, they dont have now a solo option, and they dont have an utility / electronic BS option.
If you want to make the mega a nice option leave it with 7 lows, and give it CPU as you are doing, dont put it a 5% RoF which is a nerf to its cap. You can add some nice bonus there to make it shine at least in its niche instead of making it become a joke...
The hyperion: simply a joke, as its bonus,impossible to fly now, nothing else to say,
The dominix: only good for 0.0 POS defense and OPs, cheap carrier, without bonuses to repair range or amount, a spider tank joke.
For those who live in low and use the mega as brawler this changes are a pure joke, who is going to use a shield mega having a talos? and who wants a 5th mid slot instead of a 7th low in a brawling ship...
CCP you are doing it totally wrong and you will see it I will always love LowSec |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
530
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:25:00 -
[576] - Quote
Askulf Joringer wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote: - Reduce the base armor from 8000 (base) down to ~5500
As usual prom has gone full ****** again.
Look at active tanked Maelstroms/Rokhs. Their actual hitpoints are quite low. I don't really care how you reduce the base HP, but having 30-40k more on a ship with a greater tank isn't exactly in line with the whole tiericide thing. I'd much rather see a whole ton of hp come out of the shields, but I know CCP doesn't like to force a playstyle on the users (looking at you shield gankers) -áwww.promsrage.com |
Sinigr Shadowsong
War Tactical Groups SOLAR FLEET
76
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:32:00 -
[577] - Quote
Active armor tank. I can safely assume that most players dislike active armor tank on BS. Yet you still insist on keeping it. Moreover you even change the Hyperion slot layout to better suit the aspect most players despise. Maybe if active armor tanking was better such treatment would be accepted much easier. Either you should fix armor tanking first and only then build hulls around it or exclude it from hull design and adjust Hyperion and other such ships later. Gallente should have Good Old BS to form fleets of and Hyperion could be perfectly suited for this role instead of weird active armor tanked BS. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7411
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:34:00 -
[578] - Quote
wallenbergaren wrote:So we're back to plating the ship with an active tank bonus?
What, do you only plate ships with a resist bonus? mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
TH3 B34ST
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:34:00 -
[579] - Quote
The Mega and Hype don't fill any roles now. Active armor brawling in a BS is largely crap, so if you're going to insist on keeping it you better buff the hype and not just shuffle things around. Even with 7low/5mid/8high it wouldn't be amazing because that niche is still crap.
Ok so you decided that the Hype is a solo ship with its rep bouns, then obviously the mega needs to be a gang ship. Makes sense since it already kind of filled that role, even though it did it poorly. What do you do? You take away a low, now it's garbage as a gang ship. Guess what, even with 7low/5mid/7high it's not great as a gang ship because hybrids.
I say get rid of the active tank bonus on the hype, make it a decent fleet ship with a dmg bonus and range bonus, then make the mega into a proper brawler (give it one more slot than it has currently). |
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:36:00 -
[580] - Quote
Andski wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:So we're back to plating the ship with an active tank bonus? What, do you only plate ships with a resist bonus?
No, but it means the rep bonus is completely useless. As the only Gal BS that can now fit a good passive tank its bonuses don't complement that at all. |
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2427
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:36:00 -
[581] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We are willing to consider many of the suggestions so far. Rolling another bonus into the rep bonus (like rep cap use) could be possible, changing the slot allocation, and adjusting fittings to give it more room are all on the table. "+7.5% bonus to armour repair effectiveness and -n% reduction to armour repair capacitor use per level" might work.
Honestly, the reason active armour tanking is so much less popular than passive armour tanking is primarily because of concerns over scalability and sustainability. Active armour tanks do not scale very well when compared to a passive tank backed up by a logistics fleet. An active armour tank can only ever tank a flat amount of damage per second and its ability to be sustained by remote repair suffers due to its lack of buffer, and it can be shut off completely by capacitor warfare. You can't, of course, get rid of capacitor warfare without screwing over several other elements of the game (one of which, coincidentally, is making active tanking overpowered when used against smaller fleets). I've seen bonus-based solutions before such as "-7.5% to enemy energy vampire and energy neutraliser effectiveness" but that's an incredibly specialised bonus that isn't applicable in any situation where the enemy isn't using a nos or a neut.
The extra low-slot on the Hyperion is an improvement but isn't worth the cost of losing a mid-slot, especially if (but by no means solely because) we don't have some comensurate method of balancing our capacitor budget (as a side note, it will very likely make most perma-tanking missioning Hyperion fits stop working). Because most PvP Hyperion fits generally requires two cap injectors, it will have to give up either a web or a scram, or abandon a propulsion mod, which are sacrifices you can't afford to make in most of the situations in which PvP Hyperions are generally used.
As to the Megathron, losing a low is likely going to give it precisely the same problems as the Hyperion has now. The Megathron doesn't need that extra mid - it's nice, but it's survived for years without it and I don't doubt it will continue to do so. It cannot live without that extra low. I also seriously question the logic of giving a rate-of-fire bonus to a gun that requires capacitor to fire without giving it a comensurate increase in its innate cap regeneration or a bonus-based reduction in capacitor need to fire.
I see what you're trying to do with the Dominix but it needs more of that to maintain parity if it's no longer going to be a blaster platform. The drone MWD bonus the Algos has would be very useful, as would a drone armour/shield resistances bonus (as the Dominix will now have an even larger chunk of its DPS put in danger by smartbombs). What it most desperately needs, though, is a drone control radius bonus. Mane 614
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Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
52
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:37:00 -
[582] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Honestly, CCP Rise, I'm kind of unimpressed with your attitude so far.
unimpressed is a massive understatement.
These changes serve no purpose than to force battleships in same model of cruisers, for no reason at all but some sort of compulsive mind disorder. |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
186
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:37:00 -
[583] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Askulf Joringer wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote: - Reduce the base armor from 8000 (base) down to ~5500
As usual prom has gone full ****** again. Look at active tanked Maelstroms/Rokhs. Their actual hitpoints are quite low. I don't really care how you reduce the base HP, but having 30-40k more on a ship with a greater tank isn't exactly in line with the whole tiericide thing. I'd much rather see a whole ton of hp come out of the shields, but I know CCP doesn't like to force a playstyle on the users (looking at you shield gankers) Edited post to be a bit more realistic; 6500 shield, 7000 armor, 7500 hull
Maelstrom has 8k base shield . 7.5k armor 7k hull. It doesn't need a hit point reduction to be honest.
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Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
39
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:39:00 -
[584] - Quote
Quote:rate of fire bonus are more efficient because of the way the math works. Think about how a ship with 50% bonus to rate of fire would shoot twice as often, doing double damage. That would be the same as a 100% turret damage bonus
On the only weapon system that consumes both ammo and capacitor, rate of fire bonus is inferior to damage bonus, since it increases consumption of both. Leave the damage bonus FFS! Also new Megathron is gonna run into the same problem the old Hyperion had - with 5 mids and 6 lows you could neither armour nor shield tank it properly. Hyperion's changes looks slightly better, but 100 m^3 drone bay is still somewhat pathetic for a Gallente battleship. Changes on Dominix I like however - no-gun Domi PvP fits were common before and will be even more now. |
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:42:00 -
[585] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Askulf Joringer wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote: - Reduce the base armor from 8000 (base) down to ~5500
As usual prom has gone full ****** again. Look at active tanked Maelstroms/Rokhs. Their actual hitpoints are quite low. I don't really care how you reduce the base HP, but having 30-40k more on a ship with a greater tank isn't exactly in line with the whole tiericide thing. I'd much rather see a whole ton of hp come out of the shields, but I know CCP doesn't like to force a playstyle on the users (looking at you shield gankers) Edited post to be a bit more realistic; 6500 shield, 7000 armor, 7500 hull
No reason what so ever to nerf the armor hit points on the hyperion. The 7-5-7 slot layout with 125m/3 bandiwth is spot on however a sever nerf to the base stats of the hyperion are simply unfounded.
As for your comment about only seeing a Domi once fit with guns since 2006, you are either lying or again going full ******. Knowing you, I'm going to assume it's a combination of both, Id suggest going back to the fail heap forums and getting laughed at by the community there.
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Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
52
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:44:00 -
[586] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Quote:rate of fire bonus are more efficient because of the way the math works. Think about how a ship with 50% bonus to rate of fire would shoot twice as often, doing double damage. That would be the same as a 100% turret damage bonus On the only weapon system that consumes both ammo and capacitor, rate of fire bonus is inferior to damage bonus, since it increases consumption of both. Leave the damage bonus FFS! Also new Megathron is gonna run into the same problem the old Hyperion had - with 5 mids and 6 lows you could neither armour nor shield tank it properly. Hyperion's changes looks slightly better, but 100 m^3 drone bay is still somewhat pathetic for a Gallente battleship. Changes on Dominix I like however - no-gun Domi PvP fits were common before and will be even more now.
That is among the easiest things to solve. Just increase ship base capacitor by about 200 and its all green again. |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
531
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:45:00 -
[587] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Askulf Joringer wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote: - Reduce the base armor from 8000 (base) down to ~5500
As usual prom has gone full ****** again. Look at active tanked Maelstroms/Rokhs. Their actual hitpoints are quite low. I don't really care how you reduce the base HP, but having 30-40k more on a ship with a greater tank isn't exactly in line with the whole tiericide thing. I'd much rather see a whole ton of hp come out of the shields, but I know CCP doesn't like to force a playstyle on the users (looking at you shield gankers) Edited post to be a bit more realistic; 6500 shield, 7000 armor, 7500 hull Maelstrom has 8k base shield . 7.5k armor 7k hull. It doesn't need a hit point reduction to be honest.
The Maelstrom also doesn't have the slots to field any resemblance of a decent buffer if you want a big tanks AND mobility AND tackle. And thanks to ASBs, the tank is also neut-proof*
The Hyperion has all of those things, and with 5 mids you can triple rep (LAR/LAR/LAAR) which results in a bigger active tank AND more hp & dps than a Mael/Rokh. -áwww.promsrage.com |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 10:47:00 -
[588] - Quote
Seishi Maru wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Quote:rate of fire bonus are more efficient because of the way the math works. Think about how a ship with 50% bonus to rate of fire would shoot twice as often, doing double damage. That would be the same as a 100% turret damage bonus On the only weapon system that consumes both ammo and capacitor, rate of fire bonus is inferior to damage bonus, since it increases consumption of both. Leave the damage bonus FFS! Also new Megathron is gonna run into the same problem the old Hyperion had - with 5 mids and 6 lows you could neither armour nor shield tank it properly. Hyperion's changes looks slightly better, but 100 m^3 drone bay is still somewhat pathetic for a Gallente battleship. Changes on Dominix I like however - no-gun Domi PvP fits were common before and will be even more now. That is among the easiest things to solve. Just increase ship base capacitor by about 200 and its all green again.
There's other things to consider with ROF bonuses than just cap use. You use more ammo, you may end up using more cap boosters, you also reload sooner and more often which might actually mean less applied DPS over the course of a fight.
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
531
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:50:00 -
[589] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:Seishi Maru wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Quote:rate of fire bonus are more efficient because of the way the math works. Think about how a ship with 50% bonus to rate of fire would shoot twice as often, doing double damage. That would be the same as a 100% turret damage bonus On the only weapon system that consumes both ammo and capacitor, rate of fire bonus is inferior to damage bonus, since it increases consumption of both. Leave the damage bonus FFS! Also new Megathron is gonna run into the same problem the old Hyperion had - with 5 mids and 6 lows you could neither armour nor shield tank it properly. Hyperion's changes looks slightly better, but 100 m^3 drone bay is still somewhat pathetic for a Gallente battleship. Changes on Dominix I like however - no-gun Domi PvP fits were common before and will be even more now. That is among the easiest things to solve. Just increase ship base capacitor by about 200 and its all green again. There's other things to consider with ROF bonuses than just cap use. You use more ammo, you may end up using more cap boosters, you also reload sooner and more often which might actually mean less applied DPS over the course of a fight.
Hybrids already reload in 5 seconds and take up far far less cargo than any other race. Outside of large+extended fleet situations (ie: pos/cap bashing), how often would you say you have to reload guns mid-fight because you ran out of ammo? -áwww.promsrage.com |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2427
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:52:00 -
[590] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Outside of large+extended fleet situations (ie: pos/cap bashing), how often would you say you have to reload guns mid-fight because you ran out of ammo? Outside of when something was on fire, how often would you say you have to use a fire extinguisher? Mane 614
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Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
186
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:54:00 -
[591] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
The Maelstrom also doesn't have the slots to field any resemblance of a decent buffer if you want a big tanks AND mobility AND tackle. And thanks to ASBs, the tank is also neut-proof* It's basically fixed at that hp level, unless you want to start sacrificing things.
The Hyperion has all of those things, and with 5 mids you can triple rep (LAR/LAR/LAAR) which results in a bigger active tank AND more hp & dps than a Mael/Rokh.
You shouldn't balance the Hyps raw hit points around the Maelstrom's ASB.
Nah Maelstrom get's more DPS and only slightly less EHP with current stats and an active tank. Hyp might tank a bit more now with the LAAR/LAR/LAR fit but it's EHP is still within a nice range. |
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:54:00 -
[592] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote: The Hyperion has all of those things, and with 5 mids you can triple rep (LAR/LAR/LAAR) which results in a bigger active tank AND more hp & dps than a Mael/Rokh.
Stop using eft as your end all be all of ship evaluation, tripple rep hyperion uses electron blasters, aka your damage application is actually far less than a maelstrom loaded with gyros and TE.
Dual xl asb Maelstrom also is more or less immune to cap, Hyperion is not. With the inevitable spam of OP Geddon Cheese in the near future, I don't see how a tripple rep Hyperion will be better than a maelstrom for almost anything.
In conclusion, go back to failheap prom, your badness is not wanted here. |
Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
28
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:55:00 -
[593] - Quote
Rate-of-Fire bonus without a modification to capacitor base/recharge is a nerf, plain and simple. |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
187
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:57:00 -
[594] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote: Hybrids already reload in 5 seconds and take up far far less cargo than any other race. Outside of large+extended fleet situations (ie: pos/cap bashing), how often would you say you have to reload guns mid-fight because you ran out of ammo?
Your question doesn't make sense. The more often you reload the less time you are firing, the less time you are firing means the less DPS over the course of the fight you are doing.
ROF bonuses mean you reload more often within x amount of time.
It's not about having to load a different ammo type, where did you get that from? |
Kenrailae
Starwinders SCUM.
7
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:57:00 -
[595] - Quote
Prolly been said already, but.... 30 pages is Tl;dnr.
Mega is a great multi-role BS as it is. With current low sec mechanics, yes it's more used as a station game counter, or a quick ganker. But dropping it's armor amount and taking a low from it is gonna make it really rather fragile as far as a blaster based attack battleship would be.
I do love my Mega, don't get to fly it enough. I can't imagine, with current low sec mechanics and all, that I'll be able to fly it with any regularity as it will be. Can we drop the Random High and have our Low back?
An RoF bonus is pretty silly if we can't track.
EDIT: Tracking statement is based on losing a utility low which usually carries a magstab or TE to apply the mega's full DPS potential |
Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.04.09 11:00:00 -
[596] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote: Hybrids already reload in 5 seconds and take up far far less cargo than any other race. Outside of large+extended fleet situations (ie: pos/cap bashing), how often would you say you have to reload guns mid-fight because you ran out of ammo?
Your question doesn't make sense. The more often you reload the less time you are firing, the less time you are firing means the less DPS over the course of the fight you are doing. ROF bonuses mean you reload more often within x amount of time. It's not about having to load a different ammo type, where did you get that from?
Let's be honest, when was the last time PL used hybrid boats in a fight that lasted longer than 5 minutes.
All kidding aside, you're right. The RoF change is a nerf to DPS over time. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
268
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Posted - 2013.04.09 11:08:00 -
[597] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:What I want to see is Gallente having a viable option for fleets. It would have to be either the Megathron or Hyperion, as drones to not mesh well with fleets. As the Megathron is far, far closer to this niche currently and has a history of fleet usage, it is my preference for the role. The Hyperion is already the "you could turn this into a shield tanked glass cannon if you really wanted to" ship. The Hyperion, as proposed, have all it neet to be a fleet platform. Just forget the armor rep bonus if you are in fleet. This bonus is only a bonus for smaller scale things. 8 guns + 7 lows make it good for fleet, and that's what it lacked before, and what people complained about. The Megathron can't take this job, because it lack the 8th turret.
People always moaned about the armor rep bonus being useless, and now everyone cry about the 5 mid being mandatory for armor rep setup... Go figure....
As for this fifth mid, I'm pretty sure it's not necessary anyway for one or two rep setups. Cap stability is only useful when heavy neutralized, but I'm sure 5 minutes of cap should be enough for most other uses. And if you need this second cap booster that much, the new Megathron can take this role anyway.
People are so narrow minded, it's depressing.
Looking at the whole picture, these changes offer everything gallente can need : - long range high utility armor fleet : dominix - long range armor gun fleet : hyperion - guerilla : megathron - heavy brawling with some support : hyperion - solo whatever : any of them - high utility/support : dominix - gank : megathron
What they don't do is turning gallente ships into caldari/amarr ones. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
123
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Posted - 2013.04.09 11:11:00 -
[598] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:What I want to see is Gallente having a viable option for fleets. It would have to be either the Megathron or Hyperion, as drones to not mesh well with fleets. Drones do mesh excellent with fleets. Your alliance has a program to help them field as many slowcats as possible. You better learn that really quick, or Daddy PL would punish you! |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
533
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Posted - 2013.04.09 11:11:00 -
[599] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:Dez Affinity wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote: Hybrids already reload in 5 seconds and take up far far less cargo than any other race. Outside of large+extended fleet situations (ie: pos/cap bashing), how often would you say you have to reload guns mid-fight because you ran out of ammo?
Your question doesn't make sense. The more often you reload the less time you are firing, the less time you are firing means the less DPS over the course of the fight you are doing. ROF bonuses mean you reload more often within x amount of time. It's not about having to load a different ammo type, where did you get that from? Let's be honest, when was the last time PL used hybrid boats in a fight that lasted longer than 5 minutes. All kidding aside, you're right. The RoF change is a nerf to DPS over time.
It would take ~7 minutes of constant fire to exhaust the ammo out of an Ion blaster with the change. Currently, it would take 9-10 minutes.
You're telling me that you are getting in so many long fights that in the span of 7-10 minutes you don't have a 5 second window to reload? Aside from shooting POSs & Capitals, I see this a very very minor problem. Especially since the Mega is now doing more damage, and has never really had severe cap problems (and it wouldn't now) -áwww.promsrage.com |
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2013.04.09 11:12:00 -
[600] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:
EDIT: Tracking statement is based on losing a utility low which usually carries a magstab or TE to apply the mega's full DPS potential
Not saying I totally disagree with you however the counter point would be that the mega can now (by now I mean proposed changes) easily fit 2x Webs, which would allow for a significant improvement in tracking compared to a 7 low mega that has an extra TE.
Overall I'd much rather see an 8-4-7 mega which swaps the dmg bonus for a rof bonus in exchange for loosing 25m3 drone bandwidth.
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