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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country
5903
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 16:50:00 -
[1321] - Quote
Ivelios d'Sanquine wrote:Why not keep the mega is it is? the utility high slot was fun and helped make the ship versatile and diffrent from the other mega's out there. All the ship really needed is the change in damage bonus.
More options with that extra low slot than with the extra high slot. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
552
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 16:52:00 -
[1322] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:(which, come on, everyone keeps saying "utility" when it's so obviously NEUT SLOT)
Smartbomb.
For solo Battleship work, a large smartbomb does wonders while a single neut would be crappy. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
116
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 16:53:00 -
[1323] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:(which, come on, everyone keeps saying "utility" when it's so obviously NEUT SLOT) Smartbomb. For solo Battleship work, a large smartbomb does wonders while a single neut would be crappy. Touche, sir. :P
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1252
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:00:00 -
[1324] - Quote
Julius Foederatus wrote:..... You might be using the Hyperion instead. Active rep, no speed penalty for trimarks, utility high slot, more dps, etc...
In any case, if Megathron is the "attack" BS, then it needs to be faster. If properly tanked, the combat BS (Hyperion) will go faster.
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Lina Theist
Rosendal Research and Development
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:02:00 -
[1325] - Quote
Let the megathron keep it's current drone bay/bandwidth. Other than that, it looks pretty solid. The hyperion is like a larger brutix, which means I'll still prefer a rokh over it just as I prefer a ferox over the brutix.
Take one/two turrets from the dominix and give it 15/20% drone damage |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
81
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:05:00 -
[1326] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:(which, come on, everyone keeps saying "utility" when it's so obviously NEUT SLOT) Smartbomb. For solo Battleship work, a large smartbomb does wonders while a single neut would be crappy. Exactly, was my standard setup from 2005 - 2009, Ion II's Large Smartbomb, 1205 DPS, no issues with ECM drones/elite suicide attack pods...
Looking at the changes, I'm not sure cropping the drone bay to 75m3 is really justified, that's - 126 DPS off the bat.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2489
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:05:00 -
[1327] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ivelios d'Sanquine wrote:Why not keep the mega is it is? the utility high slot was fun and helped make the ship versatile and diffrent from the other mega's out there. All the ship really needed is the change in damage bonus. More options with that extra low slot than with the extra high slot.
You keep saying this, but my imagination fails me- what utility are you referring to?
I regard a heavy neut/nos, smart bomb, repper or probe launcher (for us wormholios) are highly usable things that extend it's role beyond just tank and spank (neither of which the new Mega does really well, btw).
Not that much variety in mods that go in lows, or?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
169
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:09:00 -
[1328] - Quote
Imo all the Gall ships should be faster. Hyp might make a better "attack BS" but there's something rather incongruous about a battleship that's supposed to be fast moving. The whole idea of attack BS really doesn't translate into reality imo. But I think that it's a problem that affects all the blaster ships. Even if we switched the names around and called the Hype the attack BS and the mega the combat BS, the truth is that they still would not work because they don't have the speed to get to target, they don't have enough DPS to make up for the HP they've lost getting to target, and on top of that they don't have the tank to really hold up even if they started at their optimal. That the Hype might be a bit faster fitting active rep doesn't really change much, because in a gang situation you're going to want to plate it anyway, lest it die in a ball of fire before you get two shots off.
What I'm trying to point out is that there is a fundamental design flaw with the blaster brawlers in their current iteration that is not being addressed properly with these balance changes. Even if the Mega was called the combat BS, it wouldn't change the fact that it's just not an effective ship with blasters and with rails it just is completely outclassed by the pulse baddon and the other ranged setups. This ship balancing pass was supposed to be the second part of the fix to this problem after the hybrid changes came in, and yet it really doesn't measure up. |
Throktar
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:09:00 -
[1329] - Quote
I really like the Hyp changes, they are very good so far. Needs more speed.
The Domi is going to be pretty interesting in groups at range.
The Mega... I like the 8th low added and I can accept losing my utility high. why though did you take away another heavy drone? I understood going from 125 to 100, but now down to 75????
The new low is almost moot now, because it has to be a mag stab to make up for the loss of 126 dps from 2 heavy drones! Losing 63 dps and a utility high slot was worth it for that extra low, this is not however.
Also please look at the speed for the Mega, I really think it need to be at about 132 or maybe a tad more. |
Melphina Amador
n00bs-r-us
0
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:09:00 -
[1330] - Quote
Woah, why are you doing a deep dive into armor tanking when armor tanking still sucks compared to shield tanking?
Give the Megathron an extra mid slot so we can do shield or armor tanking. |
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mine mi
Hispania Armored Forces
17
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:13:00 -
[1331] - Quote
good work |
Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
290
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:14:00 -
[1332] - Quote
After getting up to date with this thread, here's what I think:
Hyperion: Looks ok now, although I still consider the rep amount bonus subpar for Gallente ships; people have suggested a plate amount bonus, which I think is fine, considering it limits versatility somewhat. That or fix active armor tanking once and for all. Also, why do we need that much PGW and launcher slot now? A last, minor thing is that I hope the art department is studying all the ships whose turret slots after tiericide are not reflected by the 3D model, and plans to correct that.
Megathron: Needs a small amount of extra armor, maybe consider moving 500hp from shields to armor; aside from this, I don't really see the need for the drastic changes, but if you really want to play to the "mobile" theme, you could just go for the same slot layout and bonuses, reduce bandwidth by 75 (to 50) and add an 8th turret (compensate fittings). If this was done, I would suggest changing the Hyperion's bonus from 10% damage to 7.5% RoF.
Dominix: Honestly, I like it. It just needs "few" things to work properly, namely, a 50% drone control range bonus and a complete drone overhaul, but mainly that Drone Interfacing afftects all types of drones and that sentries gain the ability to move with the ship. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1849
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:15:00 -
[1333] - Quote
Hyp: Looks good, I think I might try flying one now.
Mega: I was thinking more along the lines of 7/5/7, but 7/4/8 will work. Don't like the heavy nerf on the drone bay though. Less likely to fly this mega than before.
Domi: I like the way its going, but it needs more to catch up to Hype level of combat power. Drone speed would work to buff non-sentries without doubling up on the sentry bonus. A nice +5% or 10% / level would be welcome in drone control range as well. Or more drone bay - heavies/sentries take a lot of space up fast.
Would 150 bandwidth and a 6th drone be out of the question?
Also why do drone range bonuses only affect optimal and not falloff too?
(And throw my vote into the ring for sentries being able to move only when in follow/return mode, and hold still on attack)
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5905
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:23:00 -
[1334] - Quote
Roime wrote:baltec1 wrote:Ivelios d'Sanquine wrote:Why not keep the mega is it is? the utility high slot was fun and helped make the ship versatile and diffrent from the other mega's out there. All the ship really needed is the change in damage bonus. More options with that extra low slot than with the extra high slot. You keep saying this, but my imagination fails me- what utility are you referring to? I regard a heavy neut/nos, smart bomb, repper or probe launcher (for us wormholios) are highly usable things that extend it's role beyond just tank and spank (neither of which the new Mega does really well, btw). Not that much variety in mods that go in lows, or?
RR on BS isnt a mainstay thing in PvP and hasnt been for a number of years. With the new t1 logi thats even more so now.
The neut while handy isnt all that great. Most things are dead before they cap out and frigs regen their cap enough between cycles to render large neuts on them ineffective. They also suffer the same range issues as smartbombs and in a small gang a large smartbomb is problematic for your own frigates and drones.
Probers are not a massive loss as you cant fit combat probers on it and generally if you need a prober you will have someone in a cov ops anyway or for a WH gang enough probers around to not matter. The other use of a backup cyno for a fleet is no great loss either as you will have other ships for that too.
Most of the things you would put into that high will spend most of the time not getting used. An extra low however will provide more tank, more firepower, more speed, better ECM defence, more agility, more tracking, ect. Things that you will be using all the time. For people like me it will also offer room for more specialised fits for things the mega should really be able to do.
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Johan March
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
24
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:25:00 -
[1335] - Quote
Andski wrote:Johan March wrote:I think the revisions are a step in the right direction and I definitely appreciate the re-tweak.
However, did you actually nerf the Hyperion's damage by taking it from 8 turrets with a 5% per level damage bonus to 6 turrets with a 10% per level damage bonus?
(8*1.25) vs. (6*1.5)
Am I missing something? The lowslot it gained? See: http://i.imgur.com/ybjuixD.jpg
Thanks for this. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3924
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:32:00 -
[1336] - Quote
Andski wrote:oh good a pointless launcher slot on the hyperion Obviously its for launching defenders to protect you from the Attack Ravens. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Lithorn
The Dark Tribe
21
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:38:00 -
[1337] - Quote
Consider for the dominix rather than Drone optimal range, replace it with drone speed. Myself and others commented when drone speed bonuses were proposed to be added to some ships that non sentry drones have trouble hitting stuff when they are moving so darn fast. So secondary bonus 10% Tracking Speed & Drone speed per a level. Omni links would give you all the optimal range you ever wanted.
Hyperion: That 7.5 percent per a level bonus is the most boring and debatably useless thing ever, I used it long long time ago in pve and maybe a few times in pvp. Since we're in a festive mood about changing up the way things work how about re-imagining the bonus to be something else. Not sure what but something else more useful. B.T,W 10 percent per a level is potent but remember the Hyperion has 0 tracking bonuses and probably has the worst tracking problems of all them because of that. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:47:00 -
[1338] - Quote
Eh, changes to the Hype and Mega look pretty decent.
But still not particularly happy about the Domi. Now it's even more pigeon-holed into the role of "low-grade fleet sniper with destroyable/leave-able dps" or PvE ****-ship. Because why would you use a Domi for close-range combat when you have the Hype? It will now do one job exceedingly well (PvE) rather than many jobs decently. It's become narrowed into a niche role, when I thought the idea of T1 ships was versatility whereas the T2/Navy ships get the narrow focus. Personally I'd rather just see the Domi as a BS-sized Vexor. But w/e, it's your game. |
Lithorn
The Dark Tribe
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:53:00 -
[1339] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:These changes don't seem very good.
Hyperion is not really fit for anything except for silly bait setups in which the abbadon is better. It remains a poor choice in both pve and pvp. The ICONIC Mega is only used for station games and with the damage bonus turning into a rof bonus I feel like that is more of a nerf than anything. Often times when playing station games you only have time to get one volley off. The dominix just gets slaughtered here. Drones are useless in pvp and thanks to ccp foxfour and the new rat AI it is incredibly difficult to pve with drones. These changes make the dominix less effective in both pve and pvp. It wasn't a popular ship to begin with.
As many people willl point out the dominx is used for baiting/shield gank setups. If the dominix were to lose its large hybrid bonus it should have received the hyperions rep bonus in exchange for the hyperion to get a double damage bonus.
tl;dr: What do you guys have against gallente? Actually NO drones are not useless in pvp at all, killed some very nice stuff lately with drone Domi's, you just have to use them properly. With the removal of the gun bonuses this does relegate them more into a support role which is something the Dominix still does very well. Its more of a small gang, gate camping ship these days anyways. |
William R Blake
VC Academy
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:53:00 -
[1340] - Quote
Hyperion :
Seems good to me, although im not sure if it can run dual repper to go with its bonus decently.
Mega :
The plus on the low slots is good, not sure about the RoF bonus. and if u can just buff the armor a little bit it would be nice OR make it faster and more agile.
Domi :
Im not sure how i feel about Domi, it seem now the Domi is meant to be use with Sentry with this bonuses. How about Heavy drones?
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
2489
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:56:00 -
[1341] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
RR on BS isnt a mainstay thing in PvP and hasnt been for a number of years. With the new t1 logi thats even more so now.
The neut while handy isnt all that great. Most things are dead before they cap out and frigs regen their cap enough between cycles to render large neuts on them ineffective. They also suffer the same range issues as smartbombs and in a small gang a large smartbomb is problematic for your own frigates and drones.
Probers are not a massive loss as you cant fit combat probers on it and generally if you need a prober you will have someone in a cov ops anyway or for a WH gang enough probers around to not matter. The other use of a backup cyno for a fleet is no great loss either as you will have other ships for that too.
Most of the things you would put into that high will spend most of the time not getting used. An extra low however will provide more tank, more firepower, more speed, better ECM defence, more agility, more tracking, ect. Things that you will be using all the time. For people like me it will also offer room for more specialised fits for things the mega shouldn't really be able to do.
I didn't mean spider gangs, but a heavy RR can keep a smaller ship like tackle alive. Heavy neut will help breaking tanks. And the token probe launcher is nice to have on battleship since it's the most likely ship to end up on a wrong side of a hole.
Anyway, as you should notice- the extra low merely brings the tank or dps back to it's current levels. You gain nothing compared to current Mega, since it has better base stats to start with. Agility is irrelevant on a BS, you are slow no matter what you do. TEs will get nerfed so a midslot would be more valuable for tracking, same goes to ECCM.
All in all, this extra low slot just fix issues with base stats, but guess that was Rise's idea, to limit the Mega's usability.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
fukier
906
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:56:00 -
[1342] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Andski wrote:oh good a pointless launcher slot on the hyperion Obviously its for launching defenders to protect you from the Attack Ravens.
festive launcher can only be put on a missile hard point... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Major Killz
182
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:57:00 -
[1343] - Quote
Armageddon is will still be better than the Dominix solo or in large engagements. Why just shoot sentries when you can shoot lasers and sentries? I cant wait to try it out solo. Def does things I've wanted the Dominix to be able to do solo. As for the Megathron. We will see, but I feel I would rather use it with an active tank than the hype for near 2 times the cost. Not to say the hype is not good. I just like to watch my bank v0v
- killz |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
331
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:00:00 -
[1344] - Quote
I like the 5 mid mega better personally.
For the hyp, it's so different that I can't really say if it is better or not.
Though I'm still a big fan of removing the active rep bonus for a flat bonus to armor HP. It differentiates it from Amarr, allows for viable fleet doctrines, and allows the race to not need to fit plates (thus allowing them to be faster) which they so badly need. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
109
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Posted - 2013.04.10 18:03:00 -
[1345] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Armageddon is will still be better than the Dominix solo or in large engagements. Why just shoot sentries when you can shoot lasers and sentries? I cant wait to try it out solo. Def does things I've wanted the Dominix to be able to do solo. As for the Megathron. We will see, but I feel I would rather use it with an active tank than the hype for near 2 times the cost. Not to say the hype is not good. I just like to watch my bank v0v
- killz What exactly is stopping you from putting guns on the domi?
Hell, you could even put lasers on it if you really wanted [though their fitting would make them impractical]
Honestly the domi will put out more than enough DPS without guns aswell, not to mention the fact that it will be able to aply its DPS better to the point where heavies will hit frigates easily provided you add some DNCs. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5906
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:05:00 -
[1346] - Quote
Roime wrote:
I didn't mean spider gangs, but a heavy RR can keep a smaller ship like tackle alive. Heavy neut will help breaking tanks. And the token probe launcher is nice to have on battleship since it's the most likely ship to end up on a wrong side of a hole.
Anyway, as you should notice- the extra low merely brings the tank or dps back to it's current levels. You gain nothing compared to current Mega, since it has better base stats to start with. Agility is irrelevant on a BS, you are slow no matter what you do. TEs will get nerfed so a midslot would be more valuable for tracking, same goes to ECCM.
All in all, this extra low slot just fix issues with base stats, but guess that was Rise's idea, to limit the Mega's usability.
Agility does matter on a BS as does speed. With the built in tracking the TE will help that little bit more and low slot ECCM is still good to have.
The high slot is something we can live without but you you really want it then the hype is probably more to your taste now. |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
675
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:09:00 -
[1347] - Quote
Swing and miss for the Mega. Re-arranging the slot layout can only fix so much. May as well of left it the way it is if you don't correct the current issues. This proposal is better than the last one your proposed, but still comes up short in tackling the current issues with the ship.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1252
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:18:00 -
[1348] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Armageddon is will still be better than the Dominix solo or in large engagements. Why just shoot sentries when you can shoot lasers and sentries? I cant wait to try it out solo. Def does things I've wanted the Dominix to be able to do solo. As for the Megathron. We will see, but I feel I would rather use it with an active tank than the hype for near 2 times the cost. Not to say the hype is not good. I just like to watch my bank v0v - killz They ninja bumped up the Dominix PG to 10k, and reduced the Armageddon PG to 13.5k. |
Tennessee Jack
Blac-x
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:18:00 -
[1349] - Quote
So from what I'm guessing.
Hyperion.. its good (between ok and good). May or maynot see it out and about, but better than it is now.
Megathron. Dunno as of yet.
Least the forums much quieter from the past 2 days of "WTF You Destroyed Gallente" threads.
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Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
319
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Posted - 2013.04.10 18:19:00 -
[1350] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:THREAD UPDATED BASED ON FEEDBACK - Have a second look if you haven't since I originally posted.
Hyperion:
Here's the new and improved Hyperion. Based off of your feedback, this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6, while doubling its damage bonus from 5% per level to 10%. It also gains a larger drone bandwidth and bay, a utility high, and keeps its much-needed mid slot.
If anything, I'm worried this is too strong, but it should be an extremely fun ship to use. Hope you guys approve.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +10% Large Hybrid Turret damage +7.5% Armor Repair amount
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L(+1); 6 turrets , 1 launchers Fittings: 16000 PWG(+250), 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 7500 / 8000 / 8500 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 4.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 175(+75) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 485
Megathron:
With the Hyperion moving to more of a combat/utility ship via its drones, heavy mid-slot allocation, and spare high, we felt the mega could now afford to move towards a completely dedicated gun boat. Instead of the former 8/5/6 utility focused set up, we now have a 7/4/8 hybrid damage machine that has sacrificed its utility high (which was often unused) to gain another low - giving it more access to damage, damage application/projection, or tank. It stays in its attack role and therefor retains the previously described increases to speed and agility. This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage) +7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M, 8L(+1); 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2) Fittings: 15500 PWG, 570 CPU(+20) Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-50) / 75(-50) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 380(-20)
Dominix:
With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones. It will of course also be stronger at short range using heavy drones. As a combat battleship, its received increased hitpoints across the board, increased mass (it got its mass lowered during the hybrid buff), increased cap pool, and increased sig.
We believe this is a very exciting direction for the Dominix, and hope you will too!
I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones GÇô no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints +10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 465(+45)
OMFG they all look freakin' awesome! PLEASE keep these changes. An 8 low slot Mega AND a double dmg Hyp with the mid retained? I'm sobbing tears of joy CCP....
GUYS LOOK AT THAT MEGA!!!! LOOK AT IT!!
Just let it sink in.... Rof increase (better applied dmg) plus the Mega GAINS a low slot while retaining the agility and speed increase. It's the Gun Boat we've been dreaming of.... REJOICE!! |
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