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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
437
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Posted - 2013.04.18 11:54:00 -
[361] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Why choosing the Brutix instead of the Myrmidon as a Navy hull? Internal discussion resulted in favor of the Brutix since we felt it represented the Gallente combat doctrine more accurately with close range hybrids. A Myrmidon Navy Issue could also have been problematic to balance without overstepping on the Dominix, Vexor Navy Issue or even turret ships. Ytterbium, using the Myrmidon hull does not force you to make it a drone boat. You could perfectly use the Myrm hull with the stats you have here. I actually think that Eos should rather use Myrmidon hull since it's going to be dedicated droneboat, or so I heard. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
43
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 09:09:00 -
[362] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Why choosing the Brutix instead of the Myrmidon as a Navy hull? Internal discussion resulted in favor of the Brutix since we felt it represented the Gallente combat doctrine more accurately with close range hybrids. A Myrmidon Navy Issue could also have been problematic to balance without overstepping on the Dominix, Vexor Navy Issue or even turret ships. Ytterbium, using the Myrmidon hull does not force you to make it a drone boat. You could perfectly use the Myrm hull with the stats you have here. I actually think that Eos should rather use Myrmidon hull since it's going to be dedicated droneboat, or so I heard. i have always thought that the command ship should have used the (at the time) 2 BC hull, like astarte -> brutix, eos -> myrm etc... (same for the other races)
now, i would have LOVED that the navy BC had been based on myrm (even if not a drone boat, but i would have loved that too)
in a nutshell, stop screwing gallente, give us another myrm hull, this ship IS the emblematic BC for gallente, not the brutix
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Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
36
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Posted - 2013.04.19 09:31:00 -
[363] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:
i have always thought that the command ship should have used the (at the time) 2 BC hull, like astarte -> brutix, eos -> myrm etc... (same for the other races)
now, i would have LOVED that the navy BC had been based on myrm (even if not a drone boat, but i would have loved that too)
in a nutshell, stop screwing gallente, give us another myrm hull, this ship IS the emblematic BC for gallente, not the brutix
It is mostly matter of personal taste. I love brutix hull much more than myrmidon hull. And Brutix also follows old gallente guideline being nose-heavy.
Also former tier 2 battlecruisers were introduced after the command ships were in the game. I completely agree that were they introduced now they probably would have different hulls.
That said, dont touch my drones spamming brutix hull... |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
43
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 10:20:00 -
[364] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:seth Hendar wrote:
i have always thought that the command ship should have used the (at the time) 2 BC hull, like astarte -> brutix, eos -> myrm etc... (same for the other races)
now, i would have LOVED that the navy BC had been based on myrm (even if not a drone boat, but i would have loved that too)
in a nutshell, stop screwing gallente, give us another myrm hull, this ship IS the emblematic BC for gallente, not the brutix
It is mostly matter of personal taste. I love brutix hull much more than myrmidon hull. And Brutix also follows old gallente guideline being nose-heavy. Also former tier 2 battlecruisers were introduced after the command ships were in the game. I completely agree that were they introduced now they probably would have different hulls. That said, dont touch my drones spamming brutix hull... but i want a T2 myrm, c'mon, there are already so much "brutix" in that game.... and the BC drone boat for gallente is myrm so.... |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1314
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 23:03:00 -
[365] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:That said, dont touch my drones spamming brutix hull... So you're the guy who owns the one Eos hull that is actually flown in game.... |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
97
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:21:00 -
[366] - Quote
considering these are effectively attack bc's all there tracking bonuses and extra mobility these do an uncharacteristic tank considering that These are what the T1 attack bc's should be minus the tank . The current ABC's talos etc should be T2 specialization.
'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
Recoil IV
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 15:57:00 -
[367] - Quote
So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? |
Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 16:12:00 -
[368] - Quote
Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? What is off? RoF bonuses are way better than damage bonuses. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
613
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 17:01:00 -
[369] - Quote
Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? RoF/Dam on Hurricane equates to a 66.67% dps increase, bring bigger ammo stacks though because RoF + Autos will bleed you dry right quick
Pretty sure the 50% damage + tracking option was discarded for the Cane as that would just encourage massive artillery abuse to a point where med AC market collapse (slight exaggeration for effect).
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Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
117
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Posted - 2013.04.21 21:05:00 -
[370] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? RoF/Dam on Hurricane equates to a 66.67% dps increase, bring bigger ammo stacks though because RoF + Autos will bleed you dry right quick Pretty sure the 50% damage + tracking option was discarded for the Cane as that would just encourage massive artillery abuse to a point where med AC market collapse (slight exaggeration for effect).
I'll take a 25% ROF bonus, tracking bonus and a 7th gun!
Yeah its less DPS than the current iteration, but the flexibility in having tracking makes up for it IMHO.
:) |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
614
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Posted - 2013.04.21 22:48:00 -
[371] - Quote
Sylvous wrote:I'll take a 25% ROF bonus, tracking bonus and a 7th gun!
Yeah its less DPS than the current iteration, but the flexibility in having tracking makes up for it IMHO.
:) BC sized SFI .. not sure that is a good idea .. pretty sure it would be rather unbalanced
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Naomi Anthar
No Tax So Relax.
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 22:52:00 -
[372] - Quote
Honestly i would like that 4 mid and 7 low harbinger more with 10% hp bonus per level. Not sure harbinger needs 5 mids. I mean sure extra cap booster is nice and all but i think 1 was good enough. Other than that i like those ships. +1 |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 10:25:00 -
[373] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Honestly i would like that 4 mid and 7 low harbinger more with 10% hp bonus per level. Not sure harbinger needs 5 mids. I mean sure extra cap booster is nice and all but i think 1 was good enough. Other than that i like those ships. +1
Honestly that sounds massively OP the tank it would have. 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
168
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 10:28:00 -
[374] - Quote
Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here?
The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot.
Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
307
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 10:33:00 -
[375] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot. Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact. whinematard stfu |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
172
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:34:00 -
[376] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot. Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact. whinematard stfu
Very insightful and very loaded with knowledge and arguments you answer is. No wonder you are not taken seriously . |
Naomi Anthar
No Tax So Relax.
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:49:00 -
[377] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot. Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact. whinematard stfu Very insightful and very loaded with knowledge and arguments you answer is. No wonder you are not taken seriously .
On the other hand it wasn't very insightful but ... it was correct. How long it must go that minmatar ships must be best in every single aspect in this game. Time to enjoy a bit Losematarness for once. |
Naomi Anthar
No Tax So Relax.
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:52:00 -
[378] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:Honestly i would like that 4 mid and 7 low harbinger more with 10% hp bonus per level. Not sure harbinger needs 5 mids. I mean sure extra cap booster is nice and all but i think 1 was good enough. Other than that i like those ships. +1 Honestly that sounds massively OP the tank it would have.
Yeah i agree , that's why i said i'm happy anyway. That was just "it would be cool". Maybe don't bring 10% hp bonus , leave tracking but give it 7 th low instead of 5th mid. I cannot be only one that would enjoy such change ;). But it's not like world gonna colapse if he will go live like that. It's not bad. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1320
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 19:51:00 -
[379] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot. Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact. whinematard stfu Very insightful and very loaded with knowledge and arguments you answer is. No wonder you are not taken seriously . It must suck that the Navy Cane can nuet out the Harb and Brutix if it gets close enough (which it can, because it's faster than the other two). Carry on.
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Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession
150
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 20:48:00 -
[380] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot. Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact. whinematard stfu Very insightful and very loaded with knowledge and arguments you answer is. No wonder you are not taken seriously . It must suck that the Navy Cane can nuet out the Harb and Brutix if it gets close enough (which it can, because it's faster than the other two). Carry on.
It lacks the Cap and PG of the old cane so that isn't very likely |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1323
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 21:33:00 -
[381] - Quote
Krell Kroenen wrote:It lacks the Cap and PG of the old cane so that isn't very likely Power Diagnostic Unit II's ftw. |
cheese monkey
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
130
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 22:24:00 -
[382] - Quote
No we do not need another Brutix hull. Change to Myrmidon please (you are going to do it sooner or later)
dakes loosing the resist... going to love tackling one of these... will go down faster than a (insert colourful metaphor)
Hurricane is just... the old hurricane.
Harb is going to be the new SFI ... but insanely more powerful. Goodbye frigates.
This seems like something CCP has just thrown together.... random bonus', not really that well thought out. What are you trying to make CCP? Tiericide is going to HATE this!!
All you had to do was give the drake an extra missile launcher.
If you wanted to go tracking then make the hurricane and harb both have tracking bonus'
Finally, make sure you use the myrm hull and just let it field 5 ogres like the good old days.
Not Hard.
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RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 01:30:00 -
[383] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot. Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact.
Been having a play with Theory-crafting each of these in EVE HQ, will have to check them out on SiSi (if they're up there) but for the most part the Hurricane, Harbinger and Drake essentially are a return to the way they were pre-balance.
Now you can whine that the "Hurricane isn't as good as it used to be", but with the extra low it provide you with the ability to have an extra Gyro or a Tracking Enhancer - this actually brings it in-line with the others. Also keep in mind that with the base Shield / Armour / Structure, the defence capabilities it has lend itself well to being an extremely good Kiting Ship; as without plates you can get it up to 580 DPS (standard) - 55,000 eHP (in eve) - 1.3k / sec (based mwd) with 6x 425 + 2 Medium Neuts ... that to me is actually puts it pretty on-part with how it used to be with a little wiggle room for Damage or Tracking.
So honestly it is a very good ship, when you stack it against the other ships it is actually quite well balanced between Speed, Defensive and Offensive.
In-fact I would say the odd one out, that is likely skewing how people are looking at this is the Brutix. First of all it is completely out of place as all the rest are Tier 2 Battlecruiser, where-as the Brutix is the Tier 1... Seriously CCP Fozzie, it should be a Navy Issue Myrmidon.
Secondly the Brutix (well the Gallente ships on the whole) is Over-Powered as Hell. Why? Because unlike the others that have their Over-Powered Focus with a Serious Downside (e.g. Drake Navy Issues has an Incredible Defence, but the lowest DPS and Fairly Average Speed) ...
The Brutix does everything just far too well. In-fact it breaks 1.1k DPS, 1.2k m/s, 60k eHP with still more mid-slots than you realistically need.
If the Brutix is going to have incredibly damage that needs to be tempered by having poor range dictation and poor speed (which seriously THAT is what the Gallente is known for, being slow with a hard punch)
This is actually the same problem many of the Gallente ships are falling in to right now, and I'm not sure CCP Fozzie while he has done great work on the other ships; doesn't quite get the point in "Perfect Imbalance".
What I mean by that is at the basics, perfect Imbalance works like a Rock-Paper-Scissors setup. Ship A - beats - Ship B Ship B - beats - Ship C Ship C - beats - Ship A
Obviously with EVE you have 4 Races, so ends up a bit more complicated than that; but you're looking at the intangible differences between the Races / Ships to act as your baseline.
Right now the Minmatar, Caldari and Amarr are actually quite well balanced in this way against each other. As Minmatar > Amarr > Caldari > Minmatar, it works well - this leaves the Gallente out in the cold with the solution from Fozzie being "Well Gallente > Everyone" ... but that causes nothing but issues causing them to be Flavour of the Month (or well Balance)
Now I do agree the Gallente, outside of Capitals were for a very long time a very under-used race (ship wise) because they were difficult to get or keep in Range to apply their damage; but then that is WHY they use Drones.
Seriously I believe that the Gallente should focus more on being a more pure Drone focused race, with Drones becoming a Primary Weapon System just like Hybrids, Launchers, Lasers and Projectiles. You can say "Well Drones are easy to get destroyed" but think of it like this ... if the ship Bonus' were drone based, with the Drones getting Extra HP, Damage, Speed or even perhaps extra Drones they can use.
They become basically a Mini-Carrier Race, Drones aren't any different to any other Ammo Type really. At the same time basically removing Drones from a large number of other racial ships... because seriously they are a bad mechanic to have as "additional to ..." because they are server intensive in big groups, and frankly over-powered when you have enough of them with realistically very little past Smartbombs (which aren't exactly useful outside of killing drones or sat on a bubble)
CCP Soundwave said that you guys wants to expand gameplay styles instead of returning to the Power Creep design of before, seriously you have the gameplay elements there to make interesting new and unique gameplay styles that right now are just not being used as such. Everything you need is already in the game, you just have to look at it from a different perspective. |
cheese monkey
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
130
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 05:57:00 -
[384] - Quote
The player base wants the Myrmidon Hull.
CCP wants the Brutix Hull.
Guess who will win?
One day they will realize who owns this game the hard way. |
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 07:00:00 -
[385] - Quote
cheese monkey wrote:The player base wants the Myrmidon Hull.
CCP wants the Brutix Hull.
Guess who will win?
One day they will realize who owns this game the hard way.
We know, doesn't mean we can't tell them they're being ******** though. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1325
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 14:20:00 -
[386] - Quote
cheese monkey wrote:The player base wants the Myrmidon Hull.
CCP wants the Brutix Hull.
Guess who will win?
One day CCP will realize who owns this game the hard way. I want the Brutix hull. Put the Myrm hull on the Eos. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1325
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 14:33:00 -
[387] - Quote
RavenTesio wrote: Right now the Minmatar, Caldari and Amarr are actually quite well balanced in this way against each other. As Minmatar > Amarr > Caldari > Minmatar, it works well - this leaves the Gallente out in the cold with the solution from Fozzie being "Well Gallente > Everyone" ... but that causes nothing but issues causing them to be Flavour of the Month (or well Balance)
Huh? Vexors are really tough nuts, not so sure about the other Gallente hulls. I'd love to hear the analysis that puts Gallente frigates above Caldari and Minmatar frigs. And the one where the Gallente BCs are better than other race's BCs.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
174
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Posted - 2013.04.23 14:39:00 -
[388] - Quote
RavenTesio wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Recoil IV wrote:So the harbinger gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the brutix gets 50% dmg AND a tracking bonus, the hurricane gets.... 25% ROF, 25% dmg..... something seem off here? The HUrricane is far far far inferior to the other Navy cruisers. It got its only slot back but not all its old PG. So it basically cannot fit properly that slot. Its simply a wasted time and effort that ship. The masses of whiners cryign nerf nerf nerf to minmatar on these years made that.. made CCP as ALWAYS overreact. Been having a play with Theory-crafting each of these in EVE HQ, will have to check them out on SiSi (if they're up there) but for the most part the Hurricane, Harbinger and Drake essentially are a return to the way they were pre-balance. Now you can whine that the "Hurricane isn't as good as it used to be", but with the extra low it provide you with the ability to have an extra Gyro or a Tracking Enhancer - this actually brings it in-line with the others. Also keep in mind that with the base Shield / Armour / Structure, the defence capabilities it has lend itself well to being an extremely good Kiting Ship; as without plates you can get it up to 580 DPS (standard) - 55,000 eHP (in eve) - 1.3k / sec (based mwd) with 6x 425 + 2 Medium Neuts ... that to me is actually puts it pretty on-part with how it used to be with a little wiggle room for Damage or Tracking. .
WHAt extra low? are you drunk? It has 6 lows.. as the normal cane!!!!
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
174
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Posted - 2013.04.24 10:12:00 -
[389] - Quote
Funny when I prompt someoen to count.. and they realyze they have bbeen defendign a ship based on a fetuare that doe snot exist.. the responses stop... |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
726
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:08:00 -
[390] - Quote
That Drake makes me say "jesus christ this thing is crazy"
Awesome slot layout, number of hard points etc etc.
Harby looks fine, can even get a nice gankalol shield tank fit !!
That Cane!!! -I don't understand why some are crying about, 6 autocanons+2 HAM launchers with good skills and a bit of testing that thing will most probably be able to dish and apply huge amounts of dps while having a heck of a tank be ti armor or cookie cutter shield. Hell even if you put 2 neuts instead of 2 launchers this Cane is really fecking awesome (without missile support+spec skills don't even think about it). For those saying it's only the old Cane, well the "old" cane was clearly OP and did never deserved the standard flag but the "winmatar" one, believe me or not I've flow lots of them and I'm very happy with the new T1 cane is in line with the other ones.
I'm fine with these 3 above, however I'm a little bit disappointed Brutix didn't got a 7th turret but I can perfectly understand also the 10% ROF on 6 guns is a higher dps bonus than 5% on 7 turrets, I'm just doing my childish thing "me wants"
4 mids is ok, prop tackle and cap injector to support local reps or add some other stuff like double web or ewar like tracking disruptor or even sebo for sniping fits -lol snipe with it before med rails get a big dps ass kick
7 lows is perfect for either local tanking or buffer fits on this ship size and on top, 50M3 of Drones is fantastic, offers options for dps ewar or even light logisitcs, really good imho
Overall this seems quite reasonable as new Navy ships and bonus, not completely op nor sub, they all seem interesting but I might be missing something.
NB: erm, Fozzie? -do you think there's something you can do about med rails or do you think after internal testing this rof bonus change instead of dmg will make them better? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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