Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tobias Annages
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/karin-midular-in-coma-republic-demands-transfer/
Luminaire GÇô Sebiestor Tribal Chief Karin Midular is in a medically induced coma and has suffered extensive brain trauma, the Scope has learned, after being shot in the head on Thursday by a lone gunman in a rampage that left 58 dead and 304 wounded. According to reports from her doctors, the severity of Midular's injury is such that cloning is considered impossible, as any brain scan would return incomplete results. |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Get ready for the angry claims that the Federation is now holding Midular hostage. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
304
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the effect of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
610
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hadrian Tivianne wrote:Get ready for the angry claims that the Federation is now holding Midular hostage.
Comments like this do nothing to foster any sort of cooperation or trust between our people. You really should stop. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the effect of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor
Ah, yes. And of course, because you believe it to be outrageous the Federation would send a military fleet, you must also feel it to be outrageous that the Minmatar would breach Federation sovereignty. You can't have one and not the other. If the Federation fleet had hopped the border to get a head start then you would have an argument. As it stands, the RSS made an illegal military crossing. I don't think that's even debatable at this point, given what went down.
Whether or not Midular should be transferred is another matter. Personally, I agree she should be transferred to her people.
And those people had better not start whining if she dies on the trip. |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
794
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
These events strike very close to my heart.
I hope that all of the Sebiestor understand what a delicate and grave situation Mrs. Midular is in now - I cannot stress enough how dangerous it would be for her to be moved or interfered with. She needs peace and well-wishing to surround her now, not politics and confusion. At the moment, she has confusion enough.
I urge all of her esteemable Tribe to stand in solidarity with her at this critical juncture. As she served you to strive for lasting peace, now she needs you to stand for peace while she is unable.
Though it may be grim, she is not lost to you yet.
Prayers and well-wishes, Mrs. Midular. You aren't alone.
- Scherezad |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
105
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
While I fully trust that Gallente medical personnel are giving Ms. Midular the aid she requires, it would still behoove the Federation to allow a Matari medical team to observe and assist. If they deem that she is in a condition that would allow transport, then the Federation should bow to the Matari doctors' wishes.
Sovereignty is a sensitive matter. Given the alliance between these two powers, it seems entirely reasonable that neither should be issuing demands or refusals, but attempting to negotiate the delicate path to a solution.
And there -is- a path, so long as the powers that be decide to treat this matter with the care it deserves. |
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core medical group
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the effect of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.
It makes me sad to read things like this.
Forgive me if this sounds insensitive, but the treatment of Karin Midular is not currently a Sebiestor matter. To make it a Sebiestor matter at this stage could well cost her life, and to count another death as a result of this attack is the absolute last thing anybody wants.
Any 'force' attempting a border crossing without permission into a sovereign state can count on being challenged, friend or not, ally or not. RSS can't expect special treatment and understanding when they tear off on a tangent like that. I certainly cannot fault Roden for declining to entertain an armed fleet of Matari with an axe to grind over how this sorry situation ever came to pass in the first place. Friends don't do what the RSS tried to do.
I understand you don't like it, I guess I wouldn't either if I was Sebiestor, but please respect our house and our rules. We want the same thing you do - to return Karin Midular once she is recovered, and learn the truth of what's behind this.
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1097
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think we need give Karin Midular to the Republic, we don't want here to die in our hospital that's why we should do what they ask us this time. |
Rodj Blake
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1265
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
If Midular returns to Minmatar space in her current condition, she will die. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1141
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Does anyone know if she has clones in "cold" backup storage? It seems to me like somebody as important as Midular should have that kind of safety yet, and yet it's not been mentioned.
Actually, scratch that. Her right to patient privacy has been ignored enough already. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
304
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't think backups of tribal leaders are matters anyone should publish here, even if they knew about such things.
Quote:Forgive me if this sounds insensitive, but the treatment of Karin Midular is not currently a Sebiestor matter. To make it a Sebiestor matter at this stage could well cost her life Only if you assume that the Federation is unable to hand control of her treatment and security to Sebiestor personnel while she remains on Gallente soil. Which is a statement in itself. |
Nicolas Merovech
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
The Republic must realize that citizens of the Federation were also killed and injured in the attack, which also occurred in Federal territory. While Minmatar citizens were also injured and killed, demanding the expedition of the shooter to Republic custody is unreasonable. On the subject of transferring Midular into Minmatar care, I urge the Republic to remove emotion from the equation and do what is best for her. Her condition is very precarious, even in a planet-side hospital. There is no way she would even survive the transfer onto a medical vessel.
What happened in Bei is an example of emotions running away from reason; thank the Spirits that no one pulled a trigger. The Federation and the Republic are close allies; warship standoffs between them shouldn't be happening. I propose that Minmatar doctors travel to Midular in Gallente space. That way, everyone is happy and Midular gets the care she needs.
However, we cannot forget the others that were wounded in this tragedy. We must look past the political hubub that only one victim of over 300 has caused and assist these survivors and their families in any way we can. Also, when the identity of the shooter is revealed, I will personally be looking into his motives and tracking his accomplices. This was no random act of violence, whoever executed this has experience in covert operations. That being said, we must discern who was behind this attack and why; attacks on civilian populations will not be tolerated. |
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core medical group
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Only if you assume that the Federation is unable to hand control of her treatment and security to Sebiestor personnel while she remains on Gallente soil. Which is a statement in itself.
Which Sebiestor personnel are you talking about specifically? Are they the best qualified neurosurgeons on hand? Are they on the spot at the time, well rested and ready to go to work?
I'm not so eager to keep it all in the Sebiestor family that I'd fantasize that as a solution to the Matari crisis of confidence in us. As priorities go, I think the ethnicity of the people treating Karin Midular shouldn't really be near the top of the list right now.
We want her to survive, with all her faculties intact. To get the desired result and salvage her from this entire affair it doesn't matter whether her doctors are Gallente, Intaki, Sebiestor or Ni Kunni, as long as they're the best we have available.
|
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
304
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Ray should indeed be treated by the best allied medical personnel for the job. And if those medics are Gallentean by birth or by citizenship, so be it.
But the people deciding that she will be should be her tribe.
I am sure you understand the difference. |
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
37
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sympathy: "I'm sorry this happened to you." Empathy: "I grieve as if it happened to me."
What we need are Federation leaders who balance the demands of sovereignty with empathy for an friend who is feeling a loss beyond the description of mere words. Mr. Roden, put aside your political sensibilities for a moment and allow empathy to temper your judgment. Invite Mr. Shakor to meet with you at the hospital. Put you hand on his shoulder and say that you grieve with him and mean it.
Balance the values of the medical community and their truma orientation with the fact that the soul of your closest friend is in pain.
Big egos need to give way to big hearts. Cool heads need the warmth of compassion if the heat of war is to be avoided. "The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri) |
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core medical group
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I am sure you understand the difference.
I do understand the difference. This is made difficult because it's happened while she's away from home. I don't envy the doctors at Caille feeling the weight of people's expectations.
You're frustrated because you don't feel we understand your nature. Would you at least believe it's not in our nature to do anything less than our utmost to save her? |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1391
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:While I fully trust that Gallente medical personnel are giving Ms. Midular the aid she requires, it would still behoove the Federation to allow a Matari medical team to observe and assist. If they deem that she is in a condition that would allow transport, then the Federation should bow to the Matari doctors' wishes.
Sovereignty is a sensitive matter. Given the alliance between these two powers, it seems entirely reasonable that neither should be issuing demands or refusals, but attempting to negotiate the delicate path to a solution.
And there -is- a path, so long as the powers that be decide to treat this matter with the care it deserves.
She's right. The LEAST the Federation could do is let some Sebbie docs in to help out. For all you know, they may know a few Minmatar specific medical tricks that no doc in the Fed would know.
The military getting antsy about Matari ships coming in, I sort of understand. I emphasize SORT of.
Not letting medical personnel in? What the hell Roden? What's wrong with you?
|
Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
448
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
This is insanely stupid. The people of Midular have the right to her return; she should be with her people, on her own soil. And this pap about Midular not being able to be moved...it's insulting. Do they really believe that the Minmatar have no doctors as good as those in the Federation? Do they really believe that a top-of-the-line Republic hospital ship is not as capable as a Federation hospital?
This attack on a Republic official occurred on Federation soil - a signal failure by the Federation to exercise security precautions in defense of a foreign dignitary. The least that can be done is to return her, and end this condescending crap. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1391
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vikarion wrote:This attack on a Republic official occurred on Federation soil - a signal failure by the Federation to exercise security precautions in defense of a foreign dignitary. The least that can be done is to return her, and end this condescending crap.
Aside from you stirring **** along with everyone else who'd like to see the Federation get into a **** show, you're wrong about moving her.
Clinically, the patient has suffered deep neural damage from what I believe was a semi-automatic rifle. Assuming this was NOT done with an electrically based weapon such as a rail rifle or other magnetic field utilizing weapon system, a projectile being lodged in there is no laughing matter.
I know more about infectious diseases, bacteria, and virology, and Stitcher can correct me if I'm wrong here, but typical brain trauma at this point is a highly sensitive matter due to the sheer amount of hemorrhagic occurring within the brain. That blood is irritating neural tissue causing it to swell, badly.
Bleeding can occur inside the brain, between the brain and the membranes that cover it, between the layers of the brain's covering or between the skull and the covering of the brain. It can literally be anywhere. And I doubt exploratory surgery in this situation is something ANYONE wants to do. The slightest error in movement could worsen it beyond repair.
And this is just stationary. If an attempt is made to move her onto a ship, no matter how advanced, that hemorrhaging could worsen and kill her before she hits the deck of the ship.
NOW.
That being said, there's still absolutely ZERO excuse not to let Minmatar doctors assist in the situation in a cooperative clinical team during the situation. They won't give a name, a face, nothing about the killer. The least you jokers in the political and policy making sphere could do is let a gods damned DOCTOR IN WHO IS FROM AN ALLIED ENTITY.
Morons.
|
|
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't think there is anyone here saying that Republic medical personnel or government officials should not be allowed to enter the system in order to get to the hospital. I also don't think anyone in the Federation government has alluded to such. The Republic should be allowed to visit.
But that's not what happened, is it? What happened is emotions ran high and a RSS military fleet illegally crossed the border into Federation space. Since that time there has been no attempt by the Republic to request access for a non military group to enter and oversee the care of the Ray of Matar. And yet, it seems like the Federation is receiving the most scrutiny, the most negative implications for their actions.
Please. The Federation has stated that she shouldn't be moved due to her current medical state. I don't believe they have said anything about not allowing Republic medical staff in to check out the situation for themselves.
Nor have they said that the Republic doesn't have the right to take Midular home. But if they do give in and move her in to Republic custody, who do you suppose is going to get the blame if she dies in the process?
Anslo wrote:[quote=Vikarion] NOW.
That being said, there's still absolutely ZERO excuse not to let Minmatar doctors assist in the situation in a cooperative clinical team during the situation. They won't give a name, a face, nothing about the killer. The least you jokers in the political and policy making sphere could do is let a gods damned DOCTOR IN WHO IS FROM AN ALLIED ENTITY.
Morons. Again. Has the Republic requested access for their own Doctors? Has the Federation said no? |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1391
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why do we have to wait for them to ask? We know they're hurting over in the Republic. The least we could do is say "Look, you can't just barge in and kill the guy, but we can have alternatives and act right now. We can organize a joint investigatory team and collaborative medical group." This could have been done same day, or at least STARTED. That wouldn't have hurt a thing. It would have given them hope and something to feel better about as they would be acting instead of being talked to like kids.
We're a great Empire and all, but we have no reason to talk down to ANYONE.
|
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
177
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Any reasonable person should recognize that the Federation is doing its best in this tragic circumstance. I certainly empathize with those Matari who wish to see their sister returned to them, but please, for her sake temper that desire with respect for the doctors striving to save her life.
Similarly, the Federation should make every effort to allow her people access and provide for what care they deem necessary. This time not just for the sake of the patient, but so that her people can know that they are part of the effort to bring her back to health. |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Why do we have to wait for them to ask? We know they're hurting over in the Republic. The least we could do is say "Look, you can't just barge in and kill the guy, but we can have alternatives and act right now. We can organize a joint investigatory team and collaborative medical group." This could have been done same day, or at least STARTED. That wouldn't have hurt a thing. It would have given them hope and something to feel better about as they would be acting instead of being talked to like kids.
We're a great Empire and all, but we have no reason to talk down to ANYONE. Yes, the effort should likely be made at this point to allow her people access. Prior to this point, though, I would say that the Federation was barely given any time to formulate their own next move.
As I said, I don't think anyone is denying that the Matari have a right to have access to Midular. I do think people have an issue with others claiming that the Federation is somehow denying this, though. Or people spouting unfounded claims that the Federation isn't allowing access, when no request has been made. It is a two way street, but difference between not sending them and answer or an invitation and saying "No" needs to be established. |
Toluijin Chagangan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
As in most situations a calm mind should be the first thing people try to maintain.
While Karin Midular is in a critical condition, moving her is dangerous.
Yes, when she has stabilised she should be moved, but not until then. The fleet that was turned back was reportedly attempting to extradite the gunman by force. This was a mistake, made by the Matari command structure. The crime may have affected a ranking member of the tribes, but the crime was perpetrated within the federation, and their law should take first precidence here. Once the judicial system in the federation has come to a conclusion, then the RJD can call for extradition so he can face further charges within the republic.
Patience is, in this case, a virtue.
Seven Tribes. One Matari People. |
Vlad Cetes
Underworld Protection Agency Fatal Ascension
28
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why couldn't that assassin have shot straight and killed that woman? For the right price I'll send in a team to finish the job. |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
And to think, people were up in arms over my offhand comment. |
BloodBird
Mixed Metaphor
130
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vlad Cetes wrote:Why couldn't that assassin have shot straight and killed that woman? For the right price I'll send in a team to finish the job.
My, aren't we edgy today?
Here troll, have some attention.
|
Ninavask
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
31
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
I completely understand the minmatar wanting her back but at this state moving her would likely kill her. If they want to pray for a miracle that Miss Midular survive I'd stop trying to have her life put in even greater jeopardy.
Either way, my heart goes out to any of her close friends and loved ones of Miss Midular and all those killed or wounded during this attack. Dr. Ninavask Revan CEO - Commander The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
891
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Whilst the decision to keep Karin Midular in a Federation hospital might well be the best one for her current condition, I hope the Federation understands that in taking responsibility for her care, they also take responsibility for the outcome in this fraught situation.
If she dies and the Republic have been denied access to her... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |