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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3231
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Posted - 2013.04.17 03:30:00 -
[91] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:No, it's actually a good idea, especially the part of having a muster point with an auto bridge connecting to the area where Empire Law was broken. The only thing Ruby wins is badgering others into submission.
Just what ganking needs. Yet another nerf. (P.S. It doesn't add anything more "unknown" than the fitting slots or cargohold of the ship do. One scout on the muster point and you know exactly what's coming and can plan accordingly.) How many nerfs until you're satisfied?
Quote:Just ignore him. Nothing in the OP said anything about submitting skill ideas that are based on reality and maintain the balance of game mechanics.
I humbly apologize for pulling an interesting discussion in a content-free thread.
Quote:Frankly the first 2 skills are worthless and a big waste of time due to them not opening 'The Door'.
The 3rd skill can never be trained due to the prerequisite of needing 'Jove Frigate 1'.
DMC
I'm glad someone got the joke. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge
193
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 04:26:00 -
[92] - Quote
Stegas Tyrano wrote:Procrastination Defence - Reduces duration of procrastination by 20% per level trained.
Real Incentive: Each level provides an actual incentive to leave highsec.
Prerequisite: Procrastination Defence to level 4
(Sorry, CCP, not seeing anything of interest out there...)
My containers have been imploding for 2 years now. Why does CCP dislike my containers? |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1396
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 04:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
PI Harvester Efficiency
Increases harvester output by 5% per level.
PI Factory Efficiency
Decrease manufacturing cycle times by 5% per level.
PI Warehouse Manager
Increase all PI storage space by 10% per level.
PI Launch Physics
Decrease all transport fees on NPC custom stations by 5% per level. Q: Just how bad were missiles and drones nerfed?-á A: They're adding them to Amarr ships now. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 04:53:00 -
[94] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: Just what ganking needs. Yet another nerf. (P.S. It doesn't add anything more "unknown" than the fitting slots or cargohold of the ship do. One scout on the muster point and you know exactly what's coming and can plan accordingly.) How many nerfs until you're satisfied?
Your endless ability to treat a vague idea as something specific and well defined is astounding. You started by assuming that regular warp mechanics would have to be used and now your here assuming that the bridge point has to be an open rally when it could just as easily be done from station dock.
I think the core of your "argument" is actually that you don't like this idea because you see it as another nerf to gankers. I don't know why you just can't say that rather than make up all these none existent problems. I saw 2 cats take down a Mackinaw a few weeks ago, and the numbers on freighter ganking havn't changed much at all. Ganking is alive and well.
RubyPorto wrote: I humbly apologize for pulling an interesting discussion in a content-free thread.
This has been a great thread with a lot of interesting ideas and thoughts. It's not a serious discussion about game balance or future planning, just talk about ideas that come to mind while playing.
Your portrait looked better before the eye piece. -áCorebloodbrothers & Ali Aras for CSM: Ring mining & bottom up income, new player balance, NRDS
|
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge
193
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 05:46:00 -
[95] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Just what ganking needs. Yet another nerf. (P.S. It doesn't add anything more "unknown" than the fitting slots or cargohold of the ship do. One scout on the muster point and you know exactly what's coming and can plan accordingly.) How many nerfs until you're satisfied?
Your endless ability to treat a vague idea as something specific and well defined is astounding. You started by assuming that regular warp mechanics would have to be used and now your here assuming that the bridge point has to be an open rally when it could just as easily be done from station dock. I think the core of your "argument" is actually that you don't like this idea because you see it as another nerf to gankers. I don't know why you just can't say that rather than make up all these none existent problems. I saw 2 cats take down a Mackinaw a few weeks ago, and the numbers on freighter ganking havn't changed much at all. Ganking is alive and well. RubyPorto wrote: I humbly apologize for pulling an interesting discussion in a content-free thread.
This has been a great thread with a lot of interesting ideas and thoughts. It's not a serious discussion about game balance or future planning, just talk about ideas that come to mind while playing. Your portrait looked better before the eye piece.
Regardless of the arguments used, or the mechanics changed, I don't see how this would work. With the assumption that gankers would fit their ships, and choose their targets, with the goal of killing it within 1-3 gun cycles, the first "concordable" action that would be detected is likely to be them firing their guns. Target half dead.
You then get the "pop-up" or "concord-bridge" appearing, and 1-2 seconds later, you make the decision to go to it. By the time the grid loads (even worse if you're docked), they're firing their guns again - target dead or in deep hull.
Once you recover from the shock of landing on grid with 6 Talos's, you start to lock them, they start to lock you (since they would very quickly learn to expect intervention), their guns fire again, killing the target if it wasn't already dead, you get a lucky shot off and kill one of them, and then they all turn their attention towards you.
You die. The "victim" you were hoping to rescue dies. They die when the real Concord shows up. Their salvager then salvages your wreck as well. What have you gained?
Mechanics aren't the issue - it's human reaction time that would make this impractical.
My containers have been imploding for 2 years now. Why does CCP dislike my containers? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3232
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 06:21:00 -
[96] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Your endless ability to treat a vague idea as something specific and well defined is astounding. You started by assuming that regular warp mechanics would have to be used and now your here assuming that the bridge point has to be an open rally when it could just as easily be done from station dock.
Sure, I assumed warp. Because there is no current HS-applicable mechanic that allows you to ignore warp time.
I assume a bridge point in space because you said "Titan" and "Cyno."
So now you're adding the only mechanic in the game (short of CCP's dev tools that they break out for the AT) that moves you from a station to somewhere else in space because "oh gosh, the gankers might be able to adapt to my new nerf to ganking, and we can't have that."
Quote:I think the core of your "argument" is actually that you don't like this idea because you see it as another nerf to gankers. I don't know why you just can't say that rather than make up all these none existent problems. I saw 2 cats take down a Mackinaw a few weeks ago, and the numbers on freighter ganking havn't changed much at all. Ganking is alive and well.
I know "it's a nerf to ganking" is not a persuasive argument to people who propose things like this. So I try not to use it.
If you want to talk about hiding intentions, you initially tried to hide the fact that you were aiming for a straight nerf to ganking, claiming that you just wanted to create "variables and opportunity for interaction that did not exist before."
The number of ganks happening has dropped precipitously since last summer (and is down since before HAG). Ganking has gotten well over a dozen nerfs in the past few years. Gankers have adapted, but the nerfs have had a very noticeable effect. When is enough enough?
The funny thing is that appeasing people who want to see ganking nerfed simply results more whining. As ganking gets rarer, each gank is a bigger shock because the illusion of safety has more time to set before it's shattered, and the more set the illusion, the bigger the reaction when it's broken. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 11:56:00 -
[97] - Quote
I can live with that argument Ruby, its on point and clear because its what you want to say. "Arguments" that seek specific end results always seem to come across as contrived to me. Emphasis on hidden agenda's destroy any possibility for the debate process to lead somewhere truthful.
The tools are in game already for people to defend themselves. Failure to understand those tools is indeed a handicap, and for the sake of having all players on the same server there should be allowances made for the less capable. But the end prizes should reflect the different level of difficulty, those players requiring Concord protection to play the game should not have the same, or in many cases, better tools for creating in game wealth.
Will this happen? I don't think so.
Should this happen? Again, I don't think so. Much of the dynamic that drives Eve and makes it interesting is the conflict between the two camps. The real fight over resource and meta game development is part of what creates that in game conflict.
The problem with this, and a part of CCP's negative image, is their active dissolution of the social border that allows people to buffer the emotional bleed through from in-game activities. This same thing makes the game great. Whether games should be designed and implemented this way is actually a significant question with very far reaching implications.
But to come back to ganker nerfs; you will continue to see them because it upsets people and fuels engagement with the game. And as you so correctly point out;
RubyPorto wrote: The funny thing is that appeasing people who want to see ganking nerfed simply results more whining. As ganking gets rarer, each gank is a bigger shock because the illusion of safety has more time to set before it's shattered, and the more set the illusion, the bigger the reaction when it's broken.
Very cool dynamic actually. -áCorebloodbrothers & Ali Aras for CSM: Ring mining & bottom up income, new player balance, NRDS
|
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
859
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:25:00 -
[98] - Quote
I like a skill that would enable me to look out of a station window.
ATM its just the biggest damned prison eva, me wanty some ruddy windows!
Can you imagine eating in a restaurant by the hull, in a station near the sun and not have a window to enjoy gazing out from while eating?! Apparently not. Not a single window in the whole damned place! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Cosmic signature detected. . . . |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:I like a skill that would enable me to look out of a station window.
ATM its just the biggest damned prison eva, me wanty some ruddy windows!
Can you imagine eating in a restaurant by the hull, in a station near the sun and not have a window to enjoy gazing out from while eating?! Apparently not. Not a single window in the whole damned place!
I think they should just do away with stations. POS shields are a fine place to store things and you can see out in any direction
-áCorebloodbrothers & Ali Aras for CSM: Ring mining & bottom up income, new player balance, NRDS
|
camdrom
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
Frag skillbook.
The ability to shoot blues without it showing up on the kill mail. Each level adds a round of fire that is undetected. |
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Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
247
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:17:00 -
[101] - Quote
Wormhole Dynamics - Science Skill
Through intense study of these phenomena you are able to more accurately predict their behaviour.
Level 1 gives an estimated time to collapse for any end of life wormhole accurate to within 120 minutes Level 2 gives an estimated time to collapse for any end of life wormhole accurate to within 90 minutes Level 3 gives an estimated time to collapse for any end of life wormhole accurate to within 60 minutes Level 4 gives an estimated time to collapse for any end of life wormhole accurate to within 30 minutes Level 5 gives an estimated time to collapse for any end of life wormhole accurate to within 15 minutes |
Remiel Pollard
Intergalactic Trade and Harm
1457
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
Bumping. 10% bonus to energy transfer between vessels per level You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Mercedes Chance
GDC Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:17:00 -
[103] - Quote
Rhedea wrote:Auto-pilot engine control skill
Turns on engine mod 3 km from gate for each level when on auto-pilot.
I like this in essence, though I am not a fan of my fittings being autostarted for me. I would be even more supportive of the simple concept of the skill placing you an additional 1-2 km closer per level of skill but not completely to zero therefore still leaving a little play area. |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
45
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 23:36:00 -
[104] - Quote
advanced drones - allows for the use of 1 more drone per level |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
416
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 00:03:00 -
[105] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:advanced drones - allows for the use of 1 more drone per level NO BAD HORRIBLE PLAN!!!! You are an evil person and an abuser of hamsters. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1407
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 02:29:00 -
[106] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Bumping. 10% bonus to energy transfer between vessels per level
Realistic Physics (Science) 20% chance per level of a frigate bumping into freighter resulting in the freighter wiping a tiny smudge off it's windscreen before continuing along with speed and vector nearly unchanged. Q: Just how bad were missiles and drones nerfed?-á A: They're adding them to Amarr ships now. |
Zenos Ebeth
People Who Don't Like People
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 02:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
Realism (x12)
Level 1 : you can now only go forward because most ship only have thrusters at the back.Ships like the moa or the exequror spin out of control du to unbalanced thruster position. Also you can't lose speed as you are in a vaccum and have no retro thrusters.
Level 2: No more bumping , ramming another ship or object causes damage to the armor and hull based on size difference , ramming something that is much bigger then you may result in instant death.
level 3: Every weapon system excluding laser gain travel time , artillery , autocannons and raillgun gain infinite range because they are projectile based. (missile too but they cannot change course anymore once they run out of propellant)
Level 4: Oil-like environment replaced by an accurate depiction of vaccum , you have to manage your course and make shure you aren't headed directly for a planet , you can orbit bodies , not managing that orbit properly could lead you to crash into a planet.
Level 5: Warp drive removed because not realistic enough , instead the player has to manage his trajectory and change his course to meet up with whatever object he wishes to reach. , it takes Days/months/years to travel anywhere within a solar system , gates are removed too , it is now virtually impossible for you to reach another solar sytem within a human lifespan. |
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 05:23:00 -
[108] - Quote
EVE IS REAL!!!!! KILL THE INFIDEL!!!! |
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 10:38:00 -
[109] - Quote
Jove ship class skills, hopefully we will get jove ships with it as well ;P |
Cebraio
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
287
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 11:33:00 -
[110] - Quote
This thread had a good start but lost quality quite rapidly. Needs more good ideas!
Personally, I'd like to have a skill that reduces clone jump cooldown (but this has been mentioned already.)
Additionally I could imagine one for reducing the neural remapping cooldown. Let's say:
"Neural Remap Proficiency" Int Will (5x)
Reduces the cooldown for neural remaps.
Level 1: -10 days Level 2: -20 days Level 3: -40 days Level 4: -80 days Level 5: -160 days |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3237
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 01:43:00 -
[111] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:I can live with that argument Ruby, its on point and clear because its what you want to say. "Arguments" that seek specific end results always seem to come across as contrived to me. Emphasis on hidden agenda's destroy any possibility for the debate process to lead somewhere truthful.
Different forms of debate are useful in different forums and for different questions. The big question of what EVE should look for is not a debate where you're looking to find "truth," it's a debate of value judgments, where truth is a useful tool in framing (arguments based on facts are good, based on lies are probably not), but not the object.
Quote:The tools are in game already for people to defend themselves. Failure to understand those tools is indeed a handicap, and for the sake of having all players on the same server there should be allowances made for the less capable. However in order for our sense of justice to remain unruffled the end prizes should reflect the different level of difficulty, those players requiring Concord protection to play the game should not have the same, or in many cases, better tools for creating in game wealth.
Will this happen? I don't think so.
Aside from trade (where the risk comes from aspects of the game unaffected by CONCORD), I think CCP is looking for ways to make lower security space a more attractive place to live (as in earn money). I suspect they know that in some cases, that'll be impossible without nerfing HS (Hi Industry). I'm not quite so pessimistic on the probability of CCP fixing the current imbalances.
Quote:Should this happen? Again, I don't think so. Much of the dynamic that drives Eve and makes it interesting is the conflict between the two camps. The real fight over resource and meta game development is part of what creates that in game conflict.
The problem with this, and a part of CCP's negative image, is their active dissolution of the social border that allows people to buffer the emotional bleed through from in-game activities. This same thing makes the game great. Whether games should be designed and implemented this way is actually a significant question with very far reaching implications.
Huh?
Quote:But to come back to ganker nerfs; you will continue to see them because it upsets people and fuels engagement with the game. And as you so correctly point out; RubyPorto wrote: The funny thing is that appeasing people who want to see ganking nerfed simply results more whining. As ganking gets rarer, each gank is a bigger shock because the illusion of safety has more time to set before it's shattered, and the more set the illusion, the bigger the reaction when it's broken.
Very cool dynamic actually.
The same effect is visible in real life. Compare the media reaction to a plane crash (117 crashes killing 828 people worldwide in 2011) and the reaction to vehicular accidents every day (2011 was about 90 people per day in the US).
The human mind is not wired to deal with statistics. "What if you're that one in ten-million" your brain tells you. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 06:24:00 -
[112] - Quote
Zenos Ebeth wrote:Realism (x12)
Level 1 : you can now only go forward because most ship only have thrusters at the back.Ships like the moa or the exequror spin out of control du to unbalanced thruster position. Also you can't lose speed as you are in a vaccum and have no retro thrusters.
Level 2: No more bumping , ramming another ship or object causes damage to the armor and hull based on size difference , ramming something that is much bigger then you may result in instant death.
level 3: Every weapon system excluding laser gain travel time , artillery , autocannons and raillgun gain infinite range because they are projectile based. (missile too but they cannot change course anymore once they run out of propellant)
Level 4: Oil-like environment replaced by an accurate depiction of vaccum , you have to manage your course and make shure you aren't headed directly for a planet , you can orbit bodies , not managing that orbit properly could lead you to crash into a planet.
Level 5: Warp drive removed because not realistic enough , instead the player has to manage his trajectory and change his course to meet up with whatever object he wishes to reach. , it takes Days/months/years to travel anywhere within a solar system , gates are removed too , it is now virtually impossible for you to reach another solar sytem within a human lifespan.
Well if Eve was real then the ships would need propellers as this is 'liquid space' after all. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 05:27:00 -
[113] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:Don't try to change my words. If you want to be and idiot fine by me but stop commenting like an idiot. OP wanted to know what kinds of skills people would want to have I wanted something like this and if your too thick not to understand what behind it then be an idiot I don't mind, but just don't try to twist my words.
And just for you last try. I'll make out from iron, mayby you understand it this time.
The skill allows you to engage ANY suspected / outlaw / criminal targets in space and concord will come into your aid. So you want to kill Lowsec? CONCORD has only ever shot Criminals in High Sec. That is their entire purpose. Why do you feel the need to have literally unbeatable, NPC provided backup come to your aid as soon as you take a potshot with your civvy railgun?
Why not? I don't like pirates or gangers or nerds so why not. Makes me feel good when they blow up and if I have an unstopable police force behind doing it then why not
The threat was that IF YOU COULD... so IF I COULD i would do this skill even if it would ruin your game. No need to talk about that any further. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 16:33:00 -
[114] - Quote
A gambling skillbook.
For instance.
Level 1 20% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 2 40% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 3 60% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 4 80% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 5 Can only send isk to legit operations such as Erotica 1 See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
MarketSpy001
Project Dorsai Galactic Republic Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 18:12:00 -
[115] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:PI Harvester Efficiency
Increases harvester output by 5% per level.
PI Factory Efficiency
Decrease manufacturing cycle times by 5% per level.
PI Warehouse Manager
Increase all PI storage space by 10% per level.
PI Launch Physics
Decrease all transport fees on NPC custom stations by 5% per level.
These. ^
and maybe:
Cloak penetration: 5% per level chance to be able to detect a cloaked target.
Cloak counter: 10% per level chance to LOCK a detected cloaked/cloaking target
|
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
165
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 20:31:00 -
[116] - Quote
Forumposting. |
Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 21:22:00 -
[117] - Quote
I would write one that allowed me to kill Azrael Dinn without CONCORD intervetion, any and every time I want. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
416
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 22:07:00 -
[118] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote: A gambling skillbook.
For instance.
Level 1 20% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 2 40% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 3 60% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 4 80% reduced chance of sending isk to a scammer Level 5 Can only send isk to legit operations such as Erotica 1
But I love my tear stories. I mean sure you would work but if this was done wouldnt you run out of money from all the doubling? Also why cant more games allow scamming? Its fun. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
92
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 05:19:00 -
[119] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:I would write one that allowed me to kill Azrael Dinn without CONCORD intervetion, any and every time I want.
oooo... is that foul odour from a raging and sweating nerd? |
Lands Alot
Caldari NonProvisions
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 08:34:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ethics........... |
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