Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
158
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 09:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
And the pot calling the kettle black. Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of-áK+îKAK. Despite her corporate journey, Quinzel now subscribes to the leanings of the Practical bloc.-á |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
899
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 09:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well. Well. Well.
A Federation black operations program goes horribly awry, costing many innocent lives. Not like that hasn't happened before, I suppose - still maybe they'll stop claiming that it's been US killing our OWN people now.
Immorality AND Hypocrisy. |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
158
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 09:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oh for sure. Closure's nice. Now the stink both sides are gonna kick up I could do without.
Say - I don't know much about these prototype soldiers. If they're dying, what facilities are they using to clone?
Liking the new look by the way, Pilot Tuulinen. Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of-áK+îKAK. Despite her corporate journey, Quinzel now subscribes to the leanings of the Practical bloc.-á |
Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 09:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
They're liberating people, don't you know? |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
158
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 10:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Anja Suorsa wrote:They're liberating people, don't you know?
Right? Hearing about my people being gunned down in the streets for living the lifestyle they choose just makes me feel so free. Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of-áK+îKAK. Despite her corporate journey, Quinzel now subscribes to the leanings of the Practical bloc.-á |
Xao Chu-Li
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 10:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is disheartening news, to say the least. Civilians should never be the target of military action.
If the Federation Navy is sincere and honest in their denouncement of these cloned soldiers, I expect to see full action taken against them in the areas of Federal jurisdiction and assistance with the Caldari State in State jurisdiction (with State clearance, of course).
|
Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange
170
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 13:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Plausible deniability, the sub-clause of any Federation initiative. This, combined with GMVA's incurably flaccid attempt at enforcing a 'historical boundary zone' only goes to show that the price of the fallaciously named cause of 'freedom and liberty' is the theft of territory and the culling of individuals for the way of life 'they should be free to choose'.
Appease your masters, all you subjugated 'client nations' of the Federation, lest 'rogue units' pursue their malign, obviously not sanctioned campaign without the fear of death or censure. In this uncertain time, I urge all State loyal Capsuleers and Clone-Soldiers to pay close attention to these events and ensure that they stand ready to show that this escalation requires us to re-assess the place of immortal military assets in our society. Failing that, we as capsuleers should work to the integration of other immortals into our own efforts to maintain the integrity and survival of our State, while remaining apart from the mainstream population as is mandated by current legislation.
With the current state of the war zone, we should all be very afraid for our baseliner countrymen now at the mercy of an enemy that knows no decency or responsibility. CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: An International trade corporation that adheres to State values
Intaki born State Citizen and supporter of the Practicals Bloc. |
Xao Chu-Li
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aelisha wrote:Plausible deniability, the sub-clause of any Federation initiative. This, combined with GMVA's incurably flaccid attempt at enforcing a 'historical boundary zone' only goes to show that the price of the fallaciously named cause of 'freedom and liberty' is the theft of territory and the culling of individuals for the way of life 'they should be free to choose'.
The inability of a singular capsuleer alliance to enforce its own decrees is not the fault of the Federation. The claiming of contested territory by capsuleer militias is something both governments could be considered at fault for, though again it is more-or-less the actions of independent capsuleers than the governments themselves.
At best, the argument could be made against the Federation for these rogue forces. However, it should be made clear that the Federation isn't the only government suffering rogue elements from clone soldiers. The Caldari State only recently had a similar incident occur with clone soldiers breaching the Federation border and engaging in planet-side violence in Couster.
Aelisha wrote:With the current state of the war zone, we should all be very afraid for our baseliner countrymen now at the mercy of an enemy that knows no decency or responsibility.
The rest of your post was essentially nationalistic (which I cannot fault you for) and charged against the Federation. The fact remains that both the State and the Federation have had "rogue elements" engaging in unsanctioned hostilities. Both governments have denounced these rogue elements and both governments have taken responsibility for the events leading up to the existence of these rogue elements. |
Denak Calamari
Ozark Cartel White Mountain Coalition
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
I was surprised the peace between Caldari and Gallente even lasted this long after the Caldari Prine incident. Regardless, both have their dirty laundry out now, and all I can really do is point my fingers at the commanders behind the squadron, I am well too aware of the fact that soldiers, especially cloned ones, do not question orders. Immortality is overrated. |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
159
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 14:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Denak Calamari wrote:I was surprised the peace between Caldari and Gallente even lasted this long after the Caldari Prine incident. Regardless, both have their dirty laundry out now, and all I can really do is point my fingers at the commanders behind the squadron, I am well too aware of the fact that soldiers, especially cloned ones, do not question orders.
Worth noting that Heth's announcement about Gallentean death squads operating in Black Rise predates the Battle for Home.
Still. We have a peace of sorts. Me? I'll be sure not to baseline in any Gallente districts in the foreseeable future without my security detail. Kinda regret that.
It's not a good look you know? I don't like having so many guns around when I'm trying to sell products for leisure and pleasure. Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of-áK+îKAK. Despite her corporate journey, Quinzel now subscribes to the leanings of the Practical bloc.-á |
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
624
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well, it sure didn't take long for the old hatreds and mistrust to start up again, did it? What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
114
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Considering the nature of the clone soldiers, and that every major power has had to enact some manner of purge against the first generation, I would tend to give the Federation the benefit of the doubt on this one.
That said, that Gallente must protect Caldari from other Gallente is indeed atrocious. This is the 'liberation' that GMVA was harping about?
I remain a proponent of suspension of the CEWPA war, and a return to historical sovereignty in the embattled zones. |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
I can't help but feel that most of the comments here are why the concept of peace is so unlikely. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
114
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Finger-pointing for justification? About as noble as GMVA's justifying their 'preventative invasion' in Enaluri. |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
If by finger pointing you mean a general observation of the tone then yes, spot on.
I assume we're ignoring that fact that calling out GMVA and comparing a claim by them to to this matter is finger pointing on a fairly specific level. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
114
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
You're ignoring the complicity of Gallente nationalists in perpetuating the anger and hatred that fuels this senseless, unwinnable war. -That's- what vexes me about all of this. Nationalists and zealots -- Caldari, Gallente, choose your flag -- grumble about the evils and misdeeds of the other guy, without realizing that this fuels the cycle of self-justification and violence.
So stuff it, you ignorant lout, unless you want to actually demonstrate the knowledge and wherewithal to discuss the sociological constructs that are causing death and devastation without end. |
Xao Chu-Li
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Considering the nature of the clone soldiers, and that every major power has had to enact some manner of purge against the first generation, I would tend to give the Federation the benefit of the doubt on this one.
That said, that Gallente must protect Caldari from other Gallente is indeed atrocious. This is the 'liberation' that GMVA was harping about?
I remain a proponent of suspension of the CEWPA war, and a return to historical sovereignty in the embattled zones.
I commend you for being reasonable and objective, may wisdom forever guide your path.
Hadrian Tivianne wrote:I can't help but feel that most of the comments here are why the concept of peace is so unlikely.
Peace is only unlikely for as long as we allow comments like these to sway our hearts and minds toward enmity. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
905
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hadrian Tivianne wrote:I can't help but feel that most of the comments here are why the concept of peace is so unlikely.
You don't think the death squads are a more likely culprit? |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:You're ignoring the complicity of Gallente nationalists in perpetuating the anger and hatred that fuels this senseless, unwinnable war. -That's- what vexes me about all of this. Nationalists and zealots -- Caldari, Gallente, choose your flag -- grumble about the evils and misdeeds of the other guy, without realizing that this fuels the cycle of self-justification and violence.
So stuff it, you ignorant lout, unless you want to actually demonstrate the knowledge and wherewithal to discuss the sociological constructs that are causing death and devastation without end. The only ignorance I'm seeing here is your own for assuming that I'm ignoring anything. Your assumption that I wouldn't have said the exact same thing towards any Gallente is just bigotry. You assume I must just be a loyal Federation lapdog, you honestly have no basis. You're raging at a general observation regarding the tone of several comments and trying to paint me as the one perpetuating anger and hatred. It's baffling. The best part is that is that I wasn't even the first person to make mention of the observation here.
Xao Chu-Li wrote: Peace is only unlikely for as long as we allow comments like these to sway our hearts and minds toward enmity.
You may want to consider swaying your heart and mind to take a step back and actually evaluate the words I said instead of jumping on the bandwagon.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: You don't think the death squads are a more likely culprit?
I very much believe they are a likely culprit. But I also believe that every time something like this happens the Summit is flooded with threads of one side immediately blaming the other and stating why, and that is not good. Very likely unavoidable, but not good. If everyone simply allows old hatreds and mistrust to grow, I feel peace continues to get further off. Which was the point of my comment. |
Xao Chu-Li
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hadrian Tivianne wrote:Xao Chu-Li wrote: Peace is only unlikely for as long as we allow comments like these to sway our hearts and minds toward enmity.
You may want to consider swaying your heart and mind to take a step back and actually evaluate the words I said instead of jumping on the bandwagon.
My comment was not directed at you as culprit, it was only in response to you Captain Tivianne, it was in reference to the comments throughout the thread. |
|
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xao Chu-Li wrote:Hadrian Tivianne wrote:Xao Chu-Li wrote: Peace is only unlikely for as long as we allow comments like these to sway our hearts and minds toward enmity.
You may want to consider swaying your heart and mind to take a step back and actually evaluate the words I said instead of jumping on the bandwagon. My comment was not directed at you, Captain Tivianne, it was in reference to the comments throughout the thread. In that case you have my apology for jumping to conclusions and my thanks for understanding where I was going initially. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
116
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mr. Tivianne, you're right that my anger does neither of us any justice. However, if you intend to be read as something other than just another nationalist trying to goad the opposition, please, I implore you, communicate that from the outset. Your immediately accusatory approach doesn't do well in that regard. |
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Tivianne, you're right that my anger does neither of us any justice. However, if you intend to be read as something other than just another nationalist trying to goad the opposition, please, I implore you, communicate that from the outset. Your immediately accusatory approach doesn't do well in that regard. I apologize for it sounding accusatory. I don't know if it helps your feelings in regards to me but I'll simply say that I thought it best not to call out anyone specifically, as I didn't want it to appear as nothing but a snide personal attack from a Federation Citizen towards a State Citizen. I thought making it a broader observation on the tone of some comments was a better approach. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
116
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Your apology is accepted and appreciated, Mr. Tivianne; speaking generally, we are imperfect communicators, and imperfect readers. It's easy in a place so closely tied with violence and propaganda for words to be misinterpreted. Let's both take more care in the future. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Kabuki TransSolar
13
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 19:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hadrian Tivianne wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote: You don't think the death squads are a more likely culprit?
I very much believe they are a likely culprit. But I also believe that every time something like this happens the Summit is flooded with threads of one side immediately blaming the other and stating why, and that is not good. Very likely unavoidable, but not good. If everyone simply allows old hatreds and mistrust to grow, I feel peace continues to get further off. Which was the point of my comment. Perhaps I should have said "tone" instead of "comments".
Another word that describes the Summit being flooded with partisan threads is "diplomacy". While I can understand your desire to keep the discussion civil, there's a certain amount of outrage that simply must be expressed first. You have to understand that death squads tend to push people's buttons, for some reason or other. Bio and writing |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
690
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 20:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
The average Caldari citizen is more likely to be gunned down by their own government than these rouge soldiers.
Though I do find it incredibly stupid that our government has contributed to two technological mishaps. First hyper-intelligent drones that can reproduce and have an extreme hatred for all human life and now immortal psychopaths running around killing innocents. I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Kabuki TransSolar
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 21:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:The average Caldari citizen is more likely to be gunned down by their own government than these rouge soldiers.
I'll ignore the "rouge soldiers" freudian slip there...
First of all, does it matter how likely it is that the average Caldari will be gunned down by one of these death squads? Does it matter how many Caldari are gunned down by them? Are you really casting yourself as an apologist for death squads? As if they were a reasonable and acceptable phenomenon?
Secondly, how many Caldari do you estimate are gunned down by the State? You do know that the State has been funneling immense quantities of resources into a century-long tube-child program designed to increase the population, right? Bio and writing |
Kytre Aurgnet
Better Hide R Die
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 21:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:and now immortal psychopaths running around killing innocents. I recall stories of them doing just this in the State earlier this year, before Heth's "secret" purging of them...and rumors of their existence in Amarr space even earlier. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
691
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 21:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
I'll ignore the "rouge soldiers" freudian slip there...
First of all, does it matter how likely it is that the average Caldari will be gunned down by one of these death squads? Does it matter how many Caldari are gunned down by them? Are you really casting yourself as an apologist for death squads? As if they were a reasonable and acceptable phenomenon?
Where did I say I was supporting death squads? Why are you putting words in my mouth? Why do you only talk in questions? Are you aware that it's obnoxious and blurs what little point you are trying to get across?
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:Secondly, how many Caldari do you estimate are gunned down by the State? You do know that the State has been funneling immense quantities of resources into a century-long tube-child program designed to increase the population, right?
The State's brutality is kept heavily censored by their government. (Keep in mind that these things didn't happen before Heth stole power). As a result, it is impossible to estimate the number of executions carried out. Also keep in mind that non-patriot bloc corporations don't partake in this ruthlessness. It is entirely Provist sponsored. Just look at how easily Kaalakoita shot up their own workers who were peacefully protesting.
Also, the tube-child program has been canceled for quite some time now. Get your facts straight before trying to look like you know what you are talking about.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deteis#Tube_Child I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
907
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 21:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Amazing. Another Feddy that knows more about being Caldari than the Caldari... *sighs*
Fred, perhaps the propaganda here is not entirely one-sided, eh? Also, I am a Tubekid, so it's not like the program was shut down millenia ago, is it? |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |