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Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.04.16 18:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Has CCP considered adding a destroyer to each nation state capable of mounting cruiser sized guns? If so, what came of the idea? I was sitting here thinking that such a ship might be a nice addition to the destroyer line ups opening some new combat opportunities much like attack BCs did and added incentive to train the skill rather than just letting people say GÇ£leave destroyers for those who will be killed by cruisers.GÇ¥ |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2361
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Posted - 2013.04.16 19:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
What would attack dessies have on top of regular dessies, other than different guns? Regular dessies already do cruiser-sized or nearly cruiser-sized damage (with the Catalyst even venturing into battlecruiser-sized damage), and they are already squishy enough to count as "attack" class ships; they are too big in sig-radius for how little hit points they have.
Attack BCs work because there is a very wide gap between BC and BS damage and range, which they can bridge. Destroyers already get tons of range and damage bonuses, making the gap between them and cruisers mainly a tank/speed gap -- which is the same gap that exists between attack BCs and regular BS.
So... what's the point?
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec FW operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1263
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Posted - 2013.04.16 19:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:What would attack dessies have on top of regular dessies, other than different guns? Regular dessies already do cruiser-sized or nearly cruiser-sized damage (with the Catalyst even venturing into battlecruiser-sized damage), and they are already squishy enough to count as "attack" class ships; they are too big in sig-radius for how little hit points they have.
Attack BCs work because there is a very wide gap between BC and BS damage and range, which they can bridge. Destroyers already get tons of range and damage bonuses, making the gap between them and cruisers mainly a tank/speed gap -- which is the same gap that exists between attack BCs and regular BS.
So... what's the point?
YOLO Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3112
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Posted - 2013.04.16 19:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would rather the entire line of ship rebalancing be done first Frigs to Caps before any additional ships be added to game.
I dont see a wide enough gap between cruisers and destroyers atm to warrant another ship, at least not in the t1 line. Destroyers could use another t2 variant though. I personally would like to see an Light Assault Destroyer that fills the gap between Assault Frigate and HAC, but even that I would let wait until the complete balance and polish passes are done on the existing ship lines.
But still...the thought of a t2 Corax or a t2 Talwar with 7 rapid light missile launchers (or even 6) on it..... drooooool. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2361
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Posted - 2013.04.16 19:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:But still...the thought of a t2 Corax or a t2 Talwar with 7 rapid light missile launchers (or even 6) on it..... drooooool.
Wait, that's not how you fit your Corax already? Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec FW operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3953
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Posted - 2013.04.16 19:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
SPOILERS!!! To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.04.16 21:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:What would attack dessies have on top of regular dessies, other than different guns? Regular dessies already do cruiser-sized or nearly cruiser-sized damage (with the Catalyst even venturing into battlecruiser-sized damage), and they are already squishy enough to count as "attack" class ships; they are too big in sig-radius for how little hit points they have.
Attack BCs work because there is a very wide gap between BC and BS damage and range, which they can bridge. Destroyers already get tons of range and damage bonuses, making the gap between them and cruisers mainly a tank/speed gap -- which is the same gap that exists between attack BCs and regular BS.
So... what's the point?
IGÇÖm like a week game old and I donGÇÖt understand the nuances of the play and available hulls as well as you. Honestly, the point to me was mounting the biggest guns you could on the smallest / cheapest viable hull you could in order to make some one else go GÇ£boom.GÇ¥ Can there be a better holy cause than that?
My curiosity about such a ship comes from an interest in Factional Warfare and reading that cruisers were kind of your hull cap due to plex gate limits and some such. While planning my training up from frigates it entered my mind that such a ship might be a happy median point to fly (making destroyers a more useful step along the path upward) while working on the needed medium gunnery and fitting skills to sit a cruiser well without risking more cash in a fight than you are prepared to pay yet.
I wondered if CCP had considered such a group of destroyers? I figure people would find fun uses for them. But your firmly rational argument leaves me really sad. I was all bug gun big boom cool it blowed up thinking and you have told me that I am stuck playing with the little guns longer... |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3230
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Posted - 2013.04.16 21:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I can clearly see that this would work without any problems... |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
152
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Posted - 2013.04.16 21:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tank Talbot wrote:
IGÇÖm like a week game old and I donGÇÖt understand the nuances of the play and available hulls as well as you. Honestly, the point to me was mounting the biggest guns you could on the smallest / cheapest viable hull you could in order to make some one else go GÇ£boom.GÇ¥ Can there be a better holy cause than that?
The primary role of the destroyer is to destroy frigates, and frigates can get under cruiser guns, so you'd have a destroyer that was easily defeated by a frigate if the frigate succeeded with an approach or got a close warp in.
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Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.04.16 21:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Tank Talbot wrote:
IGÇÖm like a week game old and I donGÇÖt understand the nuances of the play and available hulls as well as you. Honestly, the point to me was mounting the biggest guns you could on the smallest / cheapest viable hull you could in order to make some one else go GÇ£boom.GÇ¥ Can there be a better holy cause than that?
The primary role of the destroyer is to destroy frigates, and frigates can get under cruiser guns, so you'd have a destroyer that was easily defeated by a frigate if the frigate succeeded with an approach or got a close warp in.
With the ship rebalancing for Odyssey all kinds of hulls are changing roles and finding new uses in game from battleships to cruisers and I expect it will go on in the future with the other ships as they can get to them. Maybe there is room for a new destroyer role too? I don't know. I am sorry. I am not looking to be argumentitive. I was just looking for ways to generate bigger booms by usage of smaller hulls with bigger weapons. |
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Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
44649
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Posted - 2013.04.16 21:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
There is a Reason I never trained destroyer past 1
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2364
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Posted - 2013.04.16 21:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tank Talbot wrote:I wondered if CCP had considered such a group of destroyers? I figure people would find fun uses for them. But your firmly rational argument leaves me really sad. I was all bug gun big boom cool it blowed up thinking and you have told me that I am stuck playing with the little guns longer... I'm sure CCP has considered it, given that they just introduced new destroyers this last expansion (the Talwar, Algos, Corax, and Dragoon are new) but they opted more for "no guns, missiles and drones instead" rather than "bigger guns". I think they had a similar train of thought.
Also, "little" guns are not that bad (says the CEO of a corp called "Rifterlings"). You can still fit fairly "boomy" guns on frigates/destroyers if you want to wreck lots of stuff. For doing large lumps of damage, you should look into artillery (long range projectile weapons, so Minmatar). For maximum face-melting damage, you should look into blasters (short range hybrid weapons, so Gallente). Lasers are sort of in the middle ground, but they have excellent range flexibility, especially due to being able to swap crystals on the fly.
Anyway, I could rant all day on the merits of using smaller guns. Bottom line right now is that there's no real room for new ships in between the current destroyer philosophy of "lots of small guns for lots of dakka" and the cruiser "fewer bigger guns for similar amounts of dakka, with more tank and utility to boot".
I would invite you to join Rifterlings so you can see the true value of small gun dakka, but from your bio it looks like you're a dirty Amarr loyalist (rawr rawr). So I'm probably just going to shoot you unless you rethink that.
(Do feel free to ask questions or contact me otherwise. My corp might be Minmatar-supporting, but that doesn't mean we have hard feelings.) Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec FW operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
152
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Posted - 2013.04.16 22:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tank Talbot wrote:Tauranon wrote:
The primary role of the destroyer is to destroy frigates, and frigates can get under cruiser guns, so you'd have a destroyer that was easily defeated by a frigate if the frigate succeeded with an approach or got a close warp in.
With the ship rebalancing for Odyssey all kinds of hulls are changing roles and finding new uses in game from battleships to cruisers and I expect it will go on in the future with the other ships as they can get to them. Maybe there is room for a new destroyer role too? Cruiser killer?
Its important not to lose sight of the original role when expanding the abilities. The biggest expanded ability ship in the game are the T3s, but they perform the core cruiser role spectacularly well. The interdictors (whilst the role is vital), the ships aren't really better destroyers, and as such nobody views them as an upgrade to a destroyer, merely that destroyers is what you have to train, if you need to fly an interdictor.
Quote:
I don't know. I am sorry. I am not looking to be argumentitive. I was just looking for ways to generate bigger booms by usage of smaller hulls with bigger weapons.
We are just discussing your proposal, feel free to keep posting and you don't have to apologise for having an opinion. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1389
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Posted - 2013.04.17 00:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
And here we see a Crucifier fitted with a Quad Light Beam Laser (M).
Note: It's also pretty useless, but still fun. Still has room for a cap-stable afterburner, though, so you can kite L1s like crazy. Live Events are neither. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3226
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Posted - 2013.04.17 01:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:There is a Reason I never trained destroyer past 1
Self loathing? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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