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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
300
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
Actual bots will be able to adapt (be reprogrammed). People who are AFK mining however may be affected. |
Haulie Berry
515
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:03:00 -
[62] - Quote
Well, if you want facts, the dev blogs are up, now.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-companion-blog/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-shakeup-blog/ |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4886
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
That 23/7 efficiency will be broken. Constantly reconfiguring their scripts will at least put a dent in their activities and amount they actually mine. A bet a lot will just give up. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Haulie Berry
515
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
Not much in the way of numbers on Ice, but this is pretty to the point:
Quote:When Odyssey is released, the current static (and massive) ice belts spread throughout space will be removed from the game, and replaced by a series of Ore Anomalies that will spawn and respawn only in systems that previously contained the aforementioned static ice belts. These belts will respawn in exactly the same system four hours after they are completed, to ensure that players from all time zones will be able to partake in ice harvesting and enjoy the spoils. The amount of ice found in these sites will be tuned to ensure that most, but not all, of the ice needs of the New Eden cluster can be provided by high security belts. At our current numbers, the maximum supply of ice from highsec (assuming that each belt is mined out completely five times a day) would provide approximately 80% of the game's ice needs, ensuring that at least some of the ice mining must be undertaken in lower security space. For context, this means that highsec will still be a large exporter of ice products, being able to generate eight times the volume of isotopes used by highsec control towers. |
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
494
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:08:00 -
[65] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:My rough notes from the keynote:
Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are theyGÇÖll respawn 4 hours later.
Wonder if I can get my fuel sold before everyone gets the news, bought the ice before the spike started :-) unless ice depletes SIGNIFICANTLY faster, that 4hr respawn will mean nothing. warping to a different location is also completely irrelevant. i'm not sure that'll stop bots. It seems safe to assume that it's implied that ice will deplete significantly faster, because otherwise - like you said - it would be meaningless. i don't trust implications, i trust facts.
CCP has stated they believe that ice belts will be mined out 5 times a day, which means that depletion is significantly faster. |
Haulie Berry
515
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:13:00 -
[66] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:That 23/7 efficiency will be broken. Constantly reconfiguring their scripts will at least put a dent in their activities and amount they actually mine. I bet a lot will just give up.
Edit: since the sites will respawn 4 hours after depletion, I don't think there is going to be a whole lot of Ice available at any one time in a site. Certainly not for some of the large botting operations I have encountered. I predict about 3 Orca Loads per site.
Doubtful. It would not be even remotely difficult for a competent programmer to compensate for this. You already know which systems ice will spawn in, so it's just a simple matter of some routines for doing a scan (and these are anomalies, not signatures - no probes or effort required, just click the button) and warping to the ice belts. Easypeasy.
So, the end result is that it will not deter botting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it actually encourages botting. Why wouldn't it? It's easy to compensate for the mechanical changes, and the activity will now be more lucrative.
But like I said before, deterring bots isn't really the goal here, imo. That's for Team Security to handle. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
300
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
But there won't be any constant reconfiguring, just requires the bot developers to make a single, once-off change that allows the bots to scan, warp and detect mined out.
Might get rid of them for a day or two while the bot developers recode things. |
Dave Stark
2866
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
haven't read the ice changes yet.
however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)
the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices. also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses) ccp have saved null sec mining. |
Haulie Berry
515
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Posted - 2013.04.26 19:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:haven't read the ice changes yet.
however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)
the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices. also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses) ccp have saved null sec mining.
Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created. |
Dave Stark
2866
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Dave Stark wrote:haven't read the ice changes yet.
however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)
the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices. also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses) ccp have saved null sec mining. Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created.
are they? still reading the blogs. damnit.
edit: no they aren't!
Dev Blog wrote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. just making them easier to find. and better. |
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Haulie Berry
515
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Posted - 2013.04.26 19:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Dave Stark wrote:haven't read the ice changes yet.
however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)
the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices. also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses) ccp have saved null sec mining. Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created. are they? still reading the blogs. damnit. edit: no they aren't! Dev Blog wrote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. just making them easier to find. and better.
Er... that's what I said! They're turning them into anoms. With all of the other rebalancing, though, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if they tweak the comps. I'm sure they'll be better, regardless, than normal belts (else there isn't much point).
Bear in mind, though, that "easier to find" necessarily means more competition. Anyone who can find the scanner button will now be joining in.
It is a REALLY unattractive change for wormhole miners, though. Those guys are so hilariously ******. Before, you had to either pre-scan their sites, or get lucky and scan down them/their site while they weren't paying attention.
Now, you can wander right in on them without ever dropping cloak. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4886
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:40:00 -
[72] - Quote
Crap. My Ice Mining system in Ammatar is not on the list. It's going away. Tears, yes. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Dave Stark
2867
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Dave Stark wrote:haven't read the ice changes yet.
however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)
the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices. also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses) ccp have saved null sec mining. Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created. are they? still reading the blogs. damnit. edit: no they aren't! Dev Blog wrote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. just making them easier to find. and better. Er... that's what I said! They're turning them into anoms. With all of the other rebalancing, though, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if they tweak the comps. I'm sure they'll be better, regardless, than normal belts (else there isn't much point). Bear in mind, though, that "easier to find" necessarily means more competition. Anyone who can find the scanner button will now be joining in. It is a REALLY unattractive change for wormhole miners, though. Those guys are so hilariously ******. Before, you had to either pre-scan their sites, or get lucky and scan down them/their site while they weren't paying attention. Now, you can wander right in on them without ever dropping cloak.
sorry reading so many things and updating so many excel cells at once. need to slow down!
"easier to find" means easier to gank, and nothing more in null sec. any one in null sec who wanted to mine, was already mining. i was probing down grav sites with the bare minimum skills.
yeah wormhole players are getting slightly boned i guess, don't know what a wormhole grav site contains. |
Dave Stark
2867
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:11:00 -
[74] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Crap. My Ice Mining system in Ammatar is not on the list. It's going away. Tears, yes.
the real question is; where are there systems with multiple belts?
i've already spotted 2 caldari systems 2 jumps from each other with a combined 5 ice belts. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
301
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:51:00 -
[75] - Quote
I know a couple in Gallente Space. Ala's one of them, also one in Everyshore iirc. |
Dave Stark
2869
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:I know a couple in Gallente Space. Ala's one of them, also one in Everyshore iirc.
take you about 5 seconds to find them thanks to goons giving every one garpa! |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity
175
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 21:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:My rough notes from the keynote:
Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are theyGÇÖll respawn 4 hours later. Unless they change the respawn mechanisms, the sites don't despawn while someone is in the site. So perhaps the next "ice interdiction" scheme will involve AFK cloaking on grid with the sites. They'll respawn next downtime, but this will delay repops in the more popular systems.
Either ice anomalies will need to last most of a day even with a plague of locusts mining the place, or ice anomalies will have to spawn in systems that don't currently have ice.
Until they get this rebalanced, I predict a lot of towers will go offline. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
301
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 21:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:I know a couple in Gallente Space. Ala's one of them, also one in Everyshore iirc. take you about 5 seconds to find them thanks to goons giving every one garpa!
I don't mine ice, so don't know all of them well, just the ones that I put buy orders up in/near. |
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
494
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Huttan Funaila wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:My rough notes from the keynote:
Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are theyGÇÖll respawn 4 hours later. Unless they change the respawn mechanisms, the sites don't despawn while someone is in the site. So perhaps the next "ice interdiction" scheme will involve AFK cloaking on grid with the sites. They'll respawn next downtime, but this will delay repops in the more popular systems. Either ice anomalies will need to last most of a day even with a plague of locusts mining the place, or ice anomalies will have to spawn in systems that don't currently have ice. Until they get this rebalanced, I predict a lot of towers will go offline.
Well, the ice belts will take about an hour to mine out, so they're probably using the incursion anom code, where people on grid don't prevent the anom from despawning.
Because if they don't, I'm sure as hell going to stop them from respawning.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4888
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Huttan Funaila wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:My rough notes from the keynote:
Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are theyGÇÖll respawn 4 hours later. Unless they change the respawn mechanisms, the sites don't despawn while someone is in the site. So perhaps the next "ice interdiction" scheme will involve AFK cloaking on grid with the sites. They'll respawn next downtime, but this will delay repops in the more popular systems. Either ice anomalies will need to last most of a day even with a plague of locusts mining the place, or ice anomalies will have to spawn in systems that don't currently have ice. Until they get this rebalanced, I predict a lot of towers will go offline. Well, the ice belts will take about an hour to mine out, so they're probably using the incursion anom code, where people on grid don't prevent the anom from despawning. Because if they don't, I'm sure as hell going to stop them from respawning.
I have a feeling that after the last chunk of ice is gone, the site evaporates, so good luck.
There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
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Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
494
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:05:00 -
[81] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:Huttan Funaila wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:My rough notes from the keynote:
Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are theyGÇÖll respawn 4 hours later. Unless they change the respawn mechanisms, the sites don't despawn while someone is in the site. So perhaps the next "ice interdiction" scheme will involve AFK cloaking on grid with the sites. They'll respawn next downtime, but this will delay repops in the more popular systems. Either ice anomalies will need to last most of a day even with a plague of locusts mining the place, or ice anomalies will have to spawn in systems that don't currently have ice. Until they get this rebalanced, I predict a lot of towers will go offline. Well, the ice belts will take about an hour to mine out, so they're probably using the incursion anom code, where people on grid don't prevent the anom from despawning. Because if they don't, I'm sure as hell going to stop them from respawning. I have a feeling that after the last chunk of ice is gone, the site evaporates, so good luck. Yeah, which is the incursion code. No way CCP is stupid enough to let people hold them open. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1754
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Crap. My Ice Mining system in Ammatar is not on the list. It's going away. Tears, yes. the real question is; where are there systems with multiple belts? i've already spotted 2 caldari systems 2 jumps from each other with a combined 5 ice belts. This is likely wrong and/or incomplete, but a place to start: http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/universe/search/?field_from=2&field_to= |
Haulie Berry
515
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
I run combat anomalies all the time. They most definitely despawn, as a signature, whether you leave them or not. The space doesn't vanish off grid until you leave, but the scannable definitely disappears whether you leave or not. |
pyronatic
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 05:30:00 -
[84] - Quote
They are moving Ice belts to scannable anomalies, No more belts in space. |
Dave Stark
2874
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 06:19:00 -
[85] - Quote
pyronatic wrote:They are moving Ice belts to scannable anomalies, No more belts in space. welcome to the party, you're late. however, the good news is that we haven't quite run out of beer yet! |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
26
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Posted - 2013.04.27 17:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Just wonder how long will take the bots to learn to scan. Still this won't push people to mine ice in lowsec or null. But let's say we idealists and do believe it will. |
Dave Stark
2888
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
OldWolf69 wrote:Just wonder how long will take the bots to learn to scan. Still this won't push people to mine ice in lowsec or null. But let's say we idealists and do believe it will.
bots don't need to scan. you just warp to the anom that you automatically scan for on session change. |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 17:22:00 -
[88] - Quote
^then here it goes. another inutile change. once again, bots will go on. i hope you guy see the difference between a normal belt, and a 300 km long ice belt. and how fast destroyers can be. . CCP you just did cheat on us once again. and won't even mention hypochrisy. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Unclaimed.
57
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 18:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
Rather bad move I believe.
I like the idea of depletable ice belts, don't get me wrong. Not against having scannable ice belts too. But essentially they are creating a scenario which will impact things even worse than the drone poo evaporation.
Let's be clear everyone knows where these belts will be, they are in already existing ice systems. Guess where the cloaky cyno droppers and bombers will be in the future? Doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
I think the mistake is much like the drone poo they are taking it to far to quickly. A transitory stage where they reduce the size of current static belts, start having ice deplete from space, and sprinking in hidden ice belts to see how the changes go would have less market impact, but given the history of how they essentially killed the drone regions I won't hold my breath.
The Ore belt rebalancing could help address problems that the drone poo evaporation created, however if you depress the value of minerals by introducing more of them, less miners will mine them and thus less of that resource will be available creating inflation, this is something that the devs don't seem to understand or don't care about.
Anyway back to ice, the way I'd rather see changes would be ihub upgrades for each racial ice that added a belt of racial specific ice to a system in a hidden belt. It's fine if it decays as mined out, even okay if it takes this belt 4 hours to respawn in the system. I think that would be a better way to handle the situation, and move more mining to 0.0, plus it would allow ice mining in virtually any system that had an ihub. |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 05:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
But just think of the LOL times gankers will have in these new "belts" with most players fitting their Macks for max yeild/min tank just so they get the most out of the field before it's depleted. It'll bring much joy to the ganking "Industry" and much nerd raging in local, flaming on the forums about how CCP is being unfair to miners. Check out my post about some Drone lovin: Proposed Drone Improvement |
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