Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
MarketSpy001
Project Dorsai Galactic Republic Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 03:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks! |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
2287
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 03:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
MarketSpy001 wrote: I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks!
That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away.
And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem. The Drake is a Lie |
MarketSpy001
Project Dorsai Galactic Republic Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 03:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:MarketSpy001 wrote: I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks! That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away. And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem.
It just seems odd to me that there is no way to compensate without tapping out your low slots. I can scramble someone with one slot used, and they have to use as many as three slots to compensate... Seems to defy the balance piece of this game. But hey, I guess that just means I don't have to fit more than 1 and they can't get away. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
154
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 03:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
MarketSpy001 wrote:Xercodo wrote:MarketSpy001 wrote: I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks! That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away. And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem. It just seems odd to me that there is no way to compensate without tapping out your low slots. I can scramble someone with one slot used, and they have to use as many as three slots to compensate... Seems to defy the balance piece of this game. But hey, I guess that just means I don't have to fit more than 1 and they can't get away.
You actually nailed the point, iirc (no pun intended). WCS are not ment to be used to such a degree that they potentially immunize a ship from warp disruption and still have lows left over for gank/tank/etc. Giving more than +1 to warp strength to any ship that has a low slot is a little much in my opinion. You have to also remember that there are ships with up to eight lows, so they can theoretically escape from two of these +3 disruptors already. Addidng more stability per module could make them too viable for many combat vessels. I could be wrong about that, but I thought they were ment mainly for non-combat ships, i.e. transports, industrials, etc. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10401
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 03:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:MarketSpy001 wrote:Xercodo wrote:MarketSpy001 wrote: I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks! That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away. And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem. It just seems odd to me that there is no way to compensate without tapping out your low slots. I can scramble someone with one slot used, and they have to use as many as three slots to compensate... Seems to defy the balance piece of this game. But hey, I guess that just means I don't have to fit more than 1 and they can't get away. You actually nailed the point, iirc (no pun intended). WCS are not ment to be used to such a degree that they potentially immunize a ship from warp disruption and still have lows left over for gank/tank/etc. Giving more than +1 to warp strength to any ship that has a low slot is a little much in my opinion. You have to also remember that there are ships with up to eight lows, so they can theoretically escape from two of these +3 disruptors already. Addidng more stability per module could make them too viable for many combat vessels. I could be wrong about that, but I thought they were ment mainly for non-combat ships, i.e. transports, industrials, etc.
Well they do totally gimp your lock time "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
MarketSpy001
Project Dorsai Galactic Republic Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 04:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:
You actually nailed the point, iirc (no pun intended). WCS are not ment to be used to such a degree that they potentially immunize a ship from warp disruption and still have lows left over for gank/tank/etc. Giving more than +1 to warp strength to any ship that has a low slot is a little much in my opinion. You have to also remember that there are ships with up to eight lows, so they can theoretically escape from two of these +3 disruptors already. Addidng more stability per module could make them too viable for many combat vessels. I could be wrong about that, but I thought they were ment mainly for non-combat ships, i.e. transports, industrials, etc.
Don't those ship types usually have only 2-3 low slots? |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 09:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty. G££ <= Me |
Transmaritanus
Sinister Elite Black Legion.
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Altrue wrote:I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty.
Some faction scramblers have 3 points.
It totally pisses off ventures when you use it. |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Altrue wrote:I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty. I am not quite sure but I think that a warp disruptor field generator (with the appropriate script loaded) gives a +3 warp strength penalty. |
BadAssMcKill
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
224
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mithrantir Ob'lontra wrote:Altrue wrote:I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty. I am not quite sure but I think that a warp disruptor field generator (with the appropriate script loaded) gives a +3 warp strength penalty.
With the script loaded its infinite, no amount of stabs will save you Starships were meant to fly~
http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif |
|
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
You shouldn't even fit the warp core stabs. They are basically useless now because most people fly with friends, and the slots can be used for better things. |
Lord Haur
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Mithrantir Ob'lontra wrote:Altrue wrote:I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty. I am not quite sure but I think that a warp disruptor field generator (with the appropriate script loaded) gives a +3 warp strength penalty. With the script loaded its infinite, no amount of stabs will save you
Well, only 100 points, not infinite.
Not that that'll help you. |
Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
558
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
The reason WCs are as they are is to ensure that getting into a fight is easier than getting out. That is why they also penalise other areas of our ship. if they were to provice more than 1, it would become impossible for any soloing ship to intercept and grab another ship as it simply would be able to warp away. Thus further encouraging blob mentality.
A proper type/fitted ship CAN avoid a single tackler with enough warp stabs, however, if fitted like this, such a ship is unable to do anything combat wise ( working as intended ). And is by no means certain that you will escape, just increase your chances of it.
If +2 or even +3 WCs were introduced, they would making traveling through say lowsec far too safe, unless people start using dictors to stop you. A simple roaming pilot or small gang would be unable to stop such a ship at all.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7621
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
MarketSpy001 wrote:Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength
The ones that give a +3 to scramble strength are faction and officer scrams, hope this helps mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Raistlim
Deep Space Supplies Curatores Veritatis Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 12:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Little known fun fact: T2 Warpcore stabs used to give 2 points of Warpstrength (pre Invention times). IIRC the first T2 WCSs were given to BURN EDEN as a Alliance Tournament price. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1070
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 15:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xearal wrote:The reason WCs are as they are is to ensure that getting into a fight is easier than getting out. That is why they also penalise other areas of our ship. if they were to provice more than 1, it would become impossible for any soloing ship to intercept and grab another ship as it simply would be able to warp away. Thus further encouraging blob mentality.
I feel that WCS currently fall under "broken" or "counterintuitive" category.
Look, besides taking up slots, WCS also have a severe lock penalty on top of fitting requirements. As such, if you fit a WC, you're pretty much saying right off the bat "I'm not going to fight, I'm going to run." BUT at the same time they're not efficient enough to escape with any degree of certainty, as pointed out above by other folks. So even if, by design and from the very beginning, your goal is to escape, not to fight, even so the WCs are not efficient enough to allow you to do that dependably. Hence the "broken" and "counterintuitive" rating from me.
In my mind, fitting WCS should make you very combat ineffective. And it does, see the lock penalty. BUT it should make you very escapable. But it doesn't. Hence, it doesn't perform its function. Either remove them altogether or make them efficient enough so that a single WCS compensates for a single scram (T1 for T1, T2 for T2 and faction for faction). Otherwise it's just broken. Which is nothing new in EVE. |
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 16:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Those modules have very limited use if any at all. |
Kurfin
Viziam Amarr Empire
51
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 18:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
On DSTs to supplement there 2 point bonus if you really can't fit you load in a blockade runner maybe?. Though stabs + cargo expanders + tank, I'm not sure how big cargo wise you could go anyway.
Or moving around unfitted or partially fitted ship while in low/null or hi under wardec. They're pretty niche. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1636
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 18:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Stabs are insurance; you should always do your best to not be in a position where they are useful and if you end up needing more than two you're generally screwed anyway. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. Voter response is quite good this time around: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qCaz2OlMecY/UWhTTh_NfFI/AAAAAAAAPOE/ryjfQkApycs/s1600/05.jpg |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Aliastra Gallente Federation
409
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 19:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
I put warpcore stabs on my panther CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
[url]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9679/whatihavedoneineve.jpg[/url] |
|
duckmonster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 19:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
The balance to WCS is guns. Some ships can fit up to 8 countermeasures to WCS!
And drones.
And ECM.
And so on. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2628
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 19:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
I am suddenly reminded of a Typhoon fit will all WCS in the lows (and it was not mine).
I used some WCS a long time ago to test the effects and the lock time penalty is excruciating.
Still, if I had to move something big, all WCS in the lows and a Target Lock Breaker means a ship built to run but don't expect to do anything else with it. Maybe you can stuff drone modules in the mids and highs with an aggression module (I forget the name) so those small fast lockers have something to contend with, or maybe combine WCS with ECM "tank".
A single WCS at least could protect you from the standard "ghetto boat tackler" but when dealing with people running inties and faction mods, it's probably a tight crew that earns their kills well.
Trouble is testing such fits, which even if they work, does not amount to much. Can't do anything in a "blockade runner fit" except run gate camps and they already have ships called Blockade Runners for that.
Too bad though that the Target Lock Breaker can only fit BS. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
88
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 19:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
He still has to align to warp. So just bump the WCS ship, and keep bumping, so he can't |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
113
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 20:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
As Sobaan Tali pointed out already, the WCS work now like they work, because in the past a single or two WCS would allow combat ships to weasel out of a fight. People would agress, and if they bit off more than they could chew: arriverderci (= bye bye).
That's why fitting WCS gimps your combat capability, and industrial ships rarely need a quick lock time.
You can still avoid fights if you fly smart and have good intel. Join the in-game channel 'The Greater Fool Bar' now.
EVE Racing (resuscitation efforts ongoing) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=215860&find=unread |
Garresh
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
113
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 23:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
They're still useful on some ships. I use them occasionally when hauling through lowsec. They are balanced and serve a very specific(and useful) role. They're not supposed to make to immune to tackle. They're supposed to make you immune to the FIRST WAVE of tackle. They counter the solo interceptor pilots or the fast points that come before the heavy hitters follow up, allowing you a few extra seconds to slip away. As anyone who has played eve knows, a few extra seconds can be the difference between life and death.
Thus, working as intended. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
388
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 01:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've never had a warpcore stab save my ass.
Anyone actually had any of these work? Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
97
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 05:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
With regard to lock time penalty gimp of WCS; smartbombs. Hit and run.
With regard to it being easier to get into a fight than to get out of one; if you force someone to warp off with their tail between their legs you won. The End.
|
Garresh
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
113
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 05:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:I've never had a warpcore stab save my ass.
Anyone actually had any of these work?
TBH, no. But FWIW, I've never been caught in an "evasion" fit ship I've flown. Ever. There's simply too many resources at your disposal to get caught with your pants down unless you're doing something stupid. I'm still a proponent of WCS, though. They're last line of defense if you really screw up. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Draydin Warsong
State Protectorate Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 06:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:I've never had a warpcore stab save my ass.
Anyone actually had any of these work?
I have on my Indy alt...yesterday in fact. Needed to pick up something 2 jump into low. Didnt want to put out th money for a bloackade runner so I fitted up a stabbed badger 2. Had a cloaky scout on the gate and the coast was clear. Jumped the badger through and as I hit the warp button a drake warped on to the gate next to me. I think he was surpirsed to see anyone on the gate because it took him a sec to even target me. He targeted me eventually and just before I warped I saw the scram go up. I resigned myself that my badger was toast but all of a sudden my ship warps. I was like...WTF I was scramed...then I remember I had fit stabs. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
287
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 10:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
MarketSpy001 wrote:
Don't those ship types usually have only 2-3 low slots?
A Sigil has 5 and is one of the best lowsec transports in the game.
My primary defense was the MWD/cloak trick, but I would often fit 2 stabs, they saved me once or twice when someone decloaked me or I didn't cloak/mwd off a gate grid and someone else jumped in. I had to "upgrade" to a t2 transport for null sec transport, but I very much miss the 2nd high slot and the combat scanner that I kept in it. Also there was plenty of room for some ECM or shield tank goodies in the mids. great ship once you learn how to work the cloak trick.
I Have one rigged to fit a 10mn MWD. 12 million ISK if anyone wants it, the rigs are well over 20. Contact me here or in game if interested. Slavery is self choosen, only the unclaimed are not free.
...Book of Reclaiming: Hall of the Goat
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |