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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Vibramycin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:06:00 -
[121] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:I'm not sure how the argument that this increases the value of supercaps is valid. What sane alliance would sell 20 supercaps to make 100B off rigs? Considering the first thing they'd need to do is buy/build new supercaps to replace the ones they lost which would cost an extra 4B-5B each to be T2 rigged. Alternately, you could save the money and use T1 rigs, ending up with something not as good.
yes, it's possible that they don't sell and just have better stuff for cheaper than younger alliances. I fail to see how this makes it not a problem. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
179
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:10:00 -
[122] - Quote
Haven't seen this many tears about supercaps since before the titan tracking nerf. Keep it up, poors, you are making my afternoon entertaining. |
fukier
928
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:10:00 -
[123] - Quote
Mynas Atoch wrote:The simple solution is to detach any rigs of the wrong size on all ships, and stick them in the ship's cargo hold.
This should have been done when the original rig split into small, medium and large happened, but CCP were a lot less confident in their database teams ability to do this sort of thing without buggering it up back then.
Since then multiple rollouts of changes to ships have taken place where this has been the method, including changes to supercarrier drone bays.
no... i still have large rig assault ships... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
fukier
928
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:11:00 -
[124] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:Haven't seen this many tears about supercaps since before the titan tracking nerf. Keep it up, poors, you are making my afternoon entertaining.
well what did you expect from tearicide...! At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
908
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:mynnna wrote:You know, an actual balance concern is that this makes armor caps that much stronger in some small way. I'm told remote rep augmentors don't work for caps right now, but presumably a capital version will exist as a result of this change. That's a rather large deal for triage carriers, except there is no equivalent for remote shield boosters. I'm fairly sure that the RRAs already work on capital RAR mods.
EFT says they do, but then again EFT is fallible. Someone else claims they don't. I have no idea which is true.
As to effectiveness, with 3x CPR II/4x Cap Recharger II, 3x CRAR I and 3x CCC I a max skill archon runs for 2m41s. With 3x RRA, it's 6m29s.
Add a CETA to the mix and its down to 1m43s with CCCs, 2m44s with the RRAs.
Run two local reps as well and it's a much smaller difference; 1m7s with CCC, 1m28s with RRAs.
If the fit is 2x CRAR/2x CETA, the RRAs still come out ahead, albeit by less. Regardless, the significance varies by what else you have to run, and shield caps still have no equivalent. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Illest Insurrectionist
The Scope Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
So there was a time not long ago when blowing up t2 frigs for plates was nearly viable.
With increased demand I would expect increased prices for materials as well.
Any thoughts on blowing up t2 frigs for plates? |
Jureth22
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
58
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:16:00 -
[127] - Quote
Illest Insurrectionist wrote:So there was a time not long ago when blowing up t2 frigs for plates was nearly viable.
With increased demand I would expect increased prices for materials as well.
Any thoughts on blowing up t2 frigs for plates?
5-8b isk for a t2 capital rig |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
504
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:29:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Jane Wade wrote:do ships with large rigs already in them keep their bonuses?
Yes. Your currently fitted rigs will stay in place and keep their bonuses.
Just to clarify; if I fit large Nanobot Injector rigs before the patch will they adopt the capital effect bonus after the patch? #savejita |
Trigalisk
The Red Circle Inc.
7
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:31:00 -
[129] - Quote
I'd love to see T1->T2 salvage alchemy (like with moon goo) rolled out in parallel to the introduction of capital rigs (or soon after).
I think it would decrease the cost of T2-rigging big ships from insane to only very expensive. |
NewTrinity
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:41:00 -
[130] - Quote
Are the stats the same between large / capital T1 and T2? Or are they going to make T1 capital rigs as good as T2 large rigs and then go up from there? |
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
241
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:44:00 -
[131] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Gypsio III wrote:mynnna wrote:You know, an actual balance concern is that this makes armor caps that much stronger in some small way. I'm told remote rep augmentors don't work for caps right now, but presumably a capital version will exist as a result of this change. That's a rather large deal for triage carriers, except there is no equivalent for remote shield boosters. I'm fairly sure that the RRAs already work on capital RAR mods. EFT says they do, but then again EFT is fallible. Someone else claims they don't. I have no idea which is true. As to effectiveness, with 3x CPR II/4x Cap Recharger II, 3x CRAR I and 3x CCC I a max skill archon runs for 2m41s. With 3x RRA, it's 6m29s. Add a CETA to the mix and its down to 1m43s with CCCs, 2m44s with the RRAs. Run two local reps as well and it's a much smaller difference; 1m7s with CCC, 1m28s with RRAs. If the fit is 2x CRAR/2x CETA, the RRAs still come out ahead, albeit by less. Regardless, the significance varies by what else you have to run, and shield caps still have no equivalent. e: Someone else is telling me they DO work already, so eh. Given that and that no one uses them, I guess it doesn't matter.
http://aten-hosted.com/images/RAArig.png
Before and after for the capital RR stats with the RAA rig. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2061
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:50:00 -
[132] - Quote
Vibramycin wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Yes, you are, in terms of fitting your ship! You have equal access to modules, equal access to fitting options, and equal access to rigs. Now, do you have equal access to the ship hulls themselves? Maybe, maybe not... but this change doesn't alter that in the slightest! The change assures existing monopoly on supercaps even futher. And this is bad. Rich becomes richer, poor becomes poorer. I believe this is an exaggeration. Moreless, a supercap oligarchy currently exists. These changes won't change the supercap distribution. It will change the cost effectiveness on rigging Carriers and Dreads, but those are already ubiquitous enough, and die regularly enough, that the change doesn't give any significant advantages to anyone. It also doesn't change the distribution of wealth in the game. Large rigs remain large rigs. Rigs attached can't be unattached and sold, and few will be. Sure, their ships might become worth a little more, but not enough to matter in the grand scheme of things! um, t2 trimarks on a cap (to pick one example) will be nominally worth something like 1.5 billion each after patch. that's not "a little more" in my book. Not for carriers/dreads anyway. You don't need to unattach the rigs to get value out of them. Unless you rigged completely weird, you WILL find a buyer who wants those rigs and will be able to get top price for it. This isn't like somebody trying to sell a raven with t2 trimarks saying boohoo nobody will pay me for my rigs. Fittings are more standard, choices usually more clear, and the number of permutations MUCH lower (17 combat cap ships total vs >250 subcaps)
If you have a Carrier/Dread now... it's already rigged with t2 rigs (or can be), no differently than anyone else's carrier/dread. After the patch, if you get a new Carrier/Dread... you will pay the same amount as anyone else to rig it... only the rigs will cost more.
Sure, if you compare the price of a t2 rigged dread/carrier before the patch, to that after the patch, there will be an increase in price. But so what?
I constructed 1000's of ships before the frig rebalance, cruiser rebalance, and BC rebalance, because I new the build costs of ships would increase post patch. I then sold them for a profit, but I didn't become super rich doing it, and anyone/everyone could do the same thing. People are mass producing BS's, hording ice, and hording zydrine because of patch speculation. If you are around for it, you can profit from it.
If people want to buy 1000 carriers, rig them with t2 rigs, with the hope of selling them after the fact for a profit, let it be so. Market speculation has long been a major part of every patch! 1000 t2 rigged carriers would require 2 trillion isk to invest, and pretend they made 2b isk profit on them, would net 2t profit, but that isk would be tied up so long the rate of return is simply untenable.
Now, if you're trying to argue that those 1000 t2 rigged capitals, pre-patch rigged and held in reserve, somehow give an alliance an unfair advantage because the next upcoming alliance won't utilize t2 rigged dreads because they aren't cost effective, you're simply off your rocker!!! This will make a very small difference in the overall metagame.
Every patch, those with knowledge and foresight get wealthier than those not planning ahead. I see no issue with this, as long as people have equal opportunity to capitalize on the very, public changes.
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JohnnyRingo
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
38
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:57:00 -
[133] - Quote
I'm very curious what Dr.Eyj+¦ has to say about this, because this is with out a doubt the biggest pile of **** i have ever seen.
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fukier
929
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:07:00 -
[134] - Quote
JohnnyRingo wrote:I'm very curious what Dr.Eyj+¦ has to say about this, because this is with out a doubt the biggest pile of **** i have ever seen.
not sure....
but i think this guy is mad about something... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
146
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:18:00 -
[135] - Quote
Can we get a definitive answer on which ship classes will require capital rigs? I'm assuming Titans, Supercarriers, Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and Capital Industrials; any others?
(TL;DR: can we get an answer regarding the Orca?) "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Coreola
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
11
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:23:00 -
[136] - Quote
So, the plan is to make it harder (more expensive) to fit a capital ship.
Essentially, you've sold assault rifles on the cheap to players for years, and now that everyone with the assault rifles are friends, you're telling the new people fighting with rocks and sticks that to get an assault rifle in the future they'll have to pay an extra premium.
Makes sense. After all, we don't want EVERYONE running around with assault rifles, just enough to make certain entities untouchable, and everyone else insignificant.
Jump, jump, jump. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
241
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:26:00 -
[137] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Can we get a definitive answer on which ship classes will require capital rigs? I'm assuming Titans, Supercarriers, Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and Capital Industrials; any others?
(TL;DR: can we get an answer regarding the Orca?)
The Orca is the only wildcard really - I'd assume pretty much anything that has jump drive operation as a prereq will use capital rigs and those that don't won't.
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Meduza13
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
12
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:30:00 -
[138] - Quote
So who is going to buy t2 rigs for anything smaller than mothership? whats the point of creating such thing like t2 capital rigs which nearly noone going to buy? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4669
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:31:00 -
[139] - Quote
This expansion is going to be odd. Oddysey. (In other words, there's a typo in the thread title) Module activation timers are buggy. CCP please fix. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
46
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:31:00 -
[140] - Quote
It was about time, yay I also hope CCP will in future do some rebalancign around rigs-there are few ones used very often and the rest is just useless, it should be fixed. Also I would like to see some new system with salvage-like using ton of t1 salvage to make t2, maybe even different ones. Something like salvage reactions |
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
565
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:46:00 -
[141] - Quote
Zakarumit CZ wrote:It was about time, yay I also hope CCP will in future do some rebalancing around rigs-there are few ones used very often and the rest is just useless, it should be fixed. Also I would like to see some new system with salvage-like using ton of t1 salvage to make t2, maybe even different ones. Something like salvage reactions I agree.
Salvage are junk "salvaged" from destroyed ships. There is no reason you can not use parts from 20 different damaged components to make one good functional component. I have done it many times working in industrial maintenance. When you need to fix something, but the new replacement parts are not available, or on back order. I often salvage parts from other old broken units to assemble one working unit. When components break they rarely break in exactly the same way.
For example I recently fixed a gear box, gear 1 and 3 were broken in one box and gear 2 and 6 were broken in another old gearbox of the same model. I pulled gears 1 and 3 from the one to fix the other and ended up with one good gear box and one with 4 bad gears.
Or say you have two similar computers. the hard drive frys in one and the ram frys in the other. You pull the ram out of the one with the fryed hard drive and put it in the other. you now have 1 working computer rather than two broken ones.
Using 10 or 20 t1 salvage to make a single T2 salvage sounds very reasonable to me. |
Echo Mande
41
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:52:00 -
[142] - Quote
Meduza13 wrote:So who is going to buy t2 rigs for anything smaller than mothership? whats the point of creating such thing like t2 capital rigs which nearly noone going to buy? Offhand I'd say wormholers. I can't think of anyone else though. |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
10
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:58:00 -
[143] - Quote
i don't really understand why are ppl complaining: it's a logic move, and it was a long time coming one. t1 trimarks where @15milion/u for a long time, now they are like what 7 mil;
regarding t2 ones, if the t2 capital ones are too expensive then you maibe should not be in one...or you can fit t1 |
fukier
930
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Posted - 2013.04.23 20:59:00 -
[144] - Quote
Echo Mande wrote:Meduza13 wrote:So who is going to buy t2 rigs for anything smaller than mothership? whats the point of creating such thing like t2 capital rigs which nearly noone going to buy? Offhand I'd say wormholers. I can't think of anyone else though.
tech II trimarks on a vindi with a full slave implant is pretty awesome1 At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
241
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Posted - 2013.04.23 21:01:00 -
[145] - Quote
Meduza13 wrote:So who is going to buy t2 rigs for anything smaller than mothership? whats the point of creating such thing like t2 capital rigs which nearly noone going to buy?
As mentioned above they are quite extensively used in wormholes where mass constraints mean your often limited to a handful of capitals in a fight and have to make the most of what you have - also as I touched on earlier the difference between 3x T1 CCC rigs and 2x T2 + 1x T1 can make quite a difference in WH PVP where the amount of neuting you can expect to run into will often be at a level where that difference can change a fight a lot.
There are some lowsec entities that T2 fit their capitals to.
T2 rigs on capitals suddenly going into the billions is going to put a bit of a wet blanket on some areas of PVP outside of null - even T1 rigs going upto the 100s of million is going to make a lot of people a lot less likely to use their caps. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7692
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:02:00 -
[146] - Quote
The goal is clearly to entrench the groups with superiority anyway vOv mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
412
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Posted - 2013.04.23 21:06:00 -
[147] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:CCP Tallest wrote:Hey
We're putting capital rigs into EVE. Not much else to say, really. They will work pretty much as you would expect them to.
Some things to note: * Rigs that previously did not affect capital modules will affect capital modules ** (Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard, Auxiliary Nano Pump and Nanobot Accelerator rigs) * Tech I BPOs will cost 50 Million ISK * Manufacturing Capital rigs will use 5 times the materials of Large rigs
Questions? Comments? will salvage drops increase to balance the demand that this will bring or CCP and keep prices steady or will just let the prices go up and mess with the economy?
As we all should know by this point Economy balances itself. Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
Haru Kion
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.04.23 21:10:00 -
[148] - Quote
The thread is full of silly supercap pilots. Come on, it's called reading. I can't believe the silliness of people that fly end-game ships. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7693
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Posted - 2013.04.23 21:11:00 -
[149] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:Haven't seen this many tears about supercaps since before the titan tracking nerf. Keep it up, poors, you are making my afternoon entertaining.
the tears from the titan tracking nerf were worth it though )) mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
CorryBasler
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
11
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Posted - 2013.04.23 21:13:00 -
[150] - Quote
Moondog Hansen wrote:My supercap is now worth an extra 4-5bil! :D
not sure on your logic, If what im understanding is true, your super will still have large trimark II's after patch. It will be like when they added small medium and large in and people have large rigged frigates.
Also, i just bought 250 intact armor plates, This patch better make me billions rather then lose billions :P |
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