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Tobias Annages
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.04.26 12:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/federation-denies-republic-request-for-extradition-of-shooter/
Luminaire GÇô Following the mass shooting of Minmatar at a cultural festival which has left 58 dead and 304 wounded, including Sebiestor Tribe leader Karin Midular in critical condition, the Gallente Federation has denied a request by the Minmatar Republic to extradite the shooter for trial. The Supreme Court made the expedited decision based on the unprecedented nature of the shooting. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1107
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thats fine... i think. But the authorities should release some info about this gunman, his background and maybe motives if they are known. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1438
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Thats fine... i think. But the authorities should release some info about this gunman, his background and maybe motives if they are known.
This. It's been how long now? Throw out SOME info.
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
756
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
He's a Gallente citizen, he committed a crime in Gallente sovereignty, therefore it is only right for him to be jailed, trialed, and punished in Gallente space.
Also, how come we don't have anymore information on this? The Republic wants this guy in their hands more than anything else right now. The Federation doesn't seem keen on releasing any information at all, not even the name of the shooter.
This is all very suspicious. You would think that the "free" nations of New Eden would have a much more transparent agenda regarding this sort of thing. I'm sure if this happened in the State or even the Empire we would have every single detail within 24 hours. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Ava Starfire
Gradient Electus Matari
886
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
"Sanmatar Maleatu Shakor has called the decision GÇ£disappointingGÇ¥ and said he will not cease to pressure the Federation to turn the shooter over to the Republic justice system. GÇ£This crime was perpetrated against the Minmatar people. Many of those slain and injured were Republic citizens, some visiting family and friends in the Federation. All were Minmatar and members of a tribe."
This is the first that I have heard that the victims were exclusively Minmatar? When was the Federation planning on sharing this? This is no random act of violence, this is a hate crime. While I have no issue with the Federation trying their citizen for a crime he committed on their soil, outright dismissing the Tribal Government and the demands of the Minmatar people for information, especially as this is unquestionably a hate crime motivated at killing only Minmatar, is nothing short of offensive.
I would hope my brothers and sisters would refrain from any and all retaliatory acts of violence. We stand nothing to gain, as a people, through those acts, and you stand nothing to gain as individuals from them. The time for action may come, but until more information is at hand, we must be patient.
That being said.... the Federation's relations with our people and attitudes toward us,, both inside and outside of Federal borders, are not inspiring much confidence.
"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception."
-Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North" |
Uriel Khaden
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
It is good to see you counseling wisdom and patience, Seida Surionen.
The Federation's lack of information may leave room for suspicion but speculation often leads us astray from the truth rather than toward it. Patience and persistence will lead to the truth quicker and more surely.
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Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Such insolence.
I hope the good citizens won't let something like this merely pass like that.
Or as one would say, down with this sort of thing. - Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim ___________________________ Angels are never far... Stillwater Corporation recruitment open. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
473
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ava Starfire wrote:This is the first that I have heard that the victims were exclusively Minmatar? When was the Federation planning on sharing this?
Do NOT commit the error of selective reading and/or taking rhetoric as full truths. Sanmatar Shakor is saying that the attack against the Ray of Matar was by extension an attack on the Minmatar people, NOT that the victims were exclusively Minmatar.
Read the entire article. The Supreme Court has said...
"This was a crime committed by a Federation citizen on Federation soil with a majority of Federation victims" |
Halete
Alexylva Paradox
774
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Don't be a hypocrite, Seriphyn.
The Sanmatar also stated that the victims were exclusively Minmatar, as well as implying that an attack on the Ray was an attack on all Matari.
The majority of the victims were ethnic Matari living in the Federation. Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
473
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
"This crime was perpetrated against the Minmatar people. Many of those slain and injured were Republic citizens, some visiting family and friends in the Federation"
Many of those is not a majority. Even then, a handful of individuals cannot constitute "the Minmatar people".
Either way, Ava Starfire is still incorrect in saying "exclusively Minmatar".
Even if the majority of the victims were ethnic Matari living in the Federation, they are still Federation citizens, thus this is a Federation matter. |
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Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1438
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
So being a Federation matter means not sharing anything with the Republic? Not even info?
"Oh but how do YOU know they aren't sharing Anslo? How could you ever know? Ho ho ho."
Because I don't think the Minmatar would be getting so worked up to the point of openly threatening potentially violent retribution if we had told them at least something to help sooth their concerns regarding the investigation.
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Halete
Alexylva Paradox
776
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: Many of those is not a majority. Even then, a handful of individuals cannot constitute "the Minmatar people
You could maybe consider reading to the end of her quote to understand where her impression came from before commenting, you obnoxious, opinionated ****.
Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
473
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
One thing I learnt from capsuleers, is that the utilization of personal attacks is always a great fail-safe in argument.
I might be an obnoxious, opinionated four pieces of asterisks, but at least I never call any other human being a derogatory term. |
Ava Starfire
Gradient Electus Matari
890
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
"All were Minmatar and members of a tribe." The report IS unclear, which is why I asked. Does he mean ALL victims were Minmatar, or all Minmatar who were injured are members of a tribe?
Either way, this is very much a Tribal matter. Some were Republic citizens visiting the Federation. If this happened against Gallente citizens, visiting the Republic, would the Federation not have the right to information?
So, Seriphyn, you're saying Tribal affiliation is irrelevant?
You're saying their nationality and the sovereign nation they hail from, as well as the Federation's largest ally, does not deserve to know what circumstances surround the murder of its citizens?
The people of my Tribe do not deserve absolution for the shooting of our Chief?
My, my. You really are a thick, pompous one, arent you?
"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception."
-Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North" |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1440
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:One thing I learnt from capsuleers, is that the utilization of personal attacks is always a great fail-safe in argument.
I might be an obnoxious, opinionated four pieces of asterisks, but at least I never call any other human being a derogatory term.
That or you avoid the arguments made against you that you can't handle.
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Halete
Alexylva Paradox
778
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:One thing I learnt from capsuleers, is that the utilization of personal attacks is always a great fail-safe in argument.
One thing I've learned is that Capsuleers of exceedingly little worth will make the fallacy of dismissing a perfectly valid response (in this case; 'Read you ******* tool') because it is served with a side-dish of honesty and bite.
But you misread me. I do not 'insult' to antagonize. You do a far much better job of playing the antagonist with your passive aggression, insolence and general fedo-****.
Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Uriel Khaden
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:One thing I learnt from capsuleers, is that the utilization of personal attacks is always a great fail-safe in argument.
So deflection using the same method is a more suitable form of defense? You may not be making personal attacks, but you're deflecting by issuing an attack on a collection of individuals.
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:I might be an obnoxious, opinionated four pieces of asterisks, but at least I never call any other human being a derogatory term.
Some would argue that it is better to be upfront regarding your opinions of others than to hide behind silver-coated barbs. You may not directly call anyone a derogatory term, but your attitude and choice of words clearly indicate your opinions behind your words. |
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
366
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
I suppose the problem here is that we tend to use 'minmatar' as synonymous with 'citizen of the Republic.'
The majority of the victims were Federation citizens, but some where visiting Republicans. All of the victims of were ethnic Minmatar.
The assertion that they were all 'members of a tribe' is questionable. I believe Sanmatar Maleatu Shakor is assuming that all Minmatar within the Federation identify as the members of a tribe or are part of their ancestral tribe by default. I doubt the good Sanmatar can speak for all of the victims in this matter.
If the shooter is executed, would that be justice in the eyes of the Republic?
And do we know anything yet about whatever larger organization he might have been part of?
although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Halete
Alexylva Paradox
778
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Uriel Khaden wrote:What I said, with less snarling.
At this time I have to take pity on the Republic. It's relationship with the Federation is showing it's strain. My kindred who accept the Sanmatar are starting to see the dark side of Gallentean imperialism, I fear. For me this is bittersweet. There are dark times ahead for my sisters and this pains me to witness. Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
677
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
This decision is disappointing but, not unexpected.
It's understandable that the Gallente would want to prosecute this case within their system. What I don't understand is the disrespectful manner in which we, supposedly trusted allies, have been treated and our concerns so casually dismissed. At the very least there should be information sharing. Why does the Federation flat out refuse to even release the suspect's name, for example?
Another thing I find puzzling are some of the statements made by the Federal Supreme Court. Why would our courts be any less able to operate a fair trial or, to find unbiased jurors than Federation courts? It's this kind of patronizing and insulting attitude that frustrates people and gives fuel to the extremists like the Bloody Hand.
What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
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Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1441
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Another thing I find puzzling are some of the statements made by the Federal Supreme Court. Why would our courts be any less able to operate a fair trial or, to find unbiased jurors than Federation courts? It's this kind of patronizing and insulting attitude that frustrates people and gives fuel to the extremists like the Bloody Hand.
They could have worded it a better way but I see where they're coming from. Emotions are pretty high in the Republic. The Fed focuses on innocent until proven guilty. That's why we use completely neutral parties for our trials so that they make honest and unbiased judgement based on facts only, no emotions or anything to sway them. But honestly, I don't see how he could be shown as innocent, like at all.
But in the Republic, I think the Court is worried that his trial might be rather quick and condemning without due process. That's not to say the Republic HAS to do trials our way, they can do whatever.
BUT. Since it DID happen on Federal soil, I can see why they'd want it held in the Fed. Still no excuse for stone walling the Republic though.
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Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
369
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
I do find it odd that the same new organizations that can report on the Empress' latest headache cannot tell us anything about a shooter who's committed mass murder and been in custody for over a week. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Ava Starfire
Gradient Electus Matari
893
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 15:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Another thing I find puzzling are some of the statements made by the Federal Supreme Court. Why would our courts be any less able to operate a fair trial or, to find unbiased jurors than Federation courts? It's this kind of patronizing and insulting attitude that frustrates people and gives fuel to the extremists like the Bloody Hand. They could have worded it a better way but I see where they're coming from. Emotions are pretty high in the Republic. The Fed focuses on innocent until proven guilty. That's why we use completely neutral parties for our trials so that they make honest and unbiased judgement based on facts only, no emotions or anything to sway them. But honestly, I don't see how he could be shown as innocent, like at all. But in the Republic, I think the Court is worried that his trial might be rather quick and condemning without due process. That's not to say the Republic HAS to do trials our way, they can do whatever. BUT. Since it DID happen on Federal soil, I can see why they'd want it held in the Fed. Still no excuse for stone walling the Republic though.
And then, the courts publically set them on fire with noise activated methods.
Emotions are obviously lower in the Federation, where crime is concerned. "There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception."
-Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North" |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 16:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
It seems that -- all vitriol aside -- that the Federation is doing much as we have suspected it would. It will investigate and try the suspect on its own soil, and by its own laws. This isn't surprising. What is surprising is the confrontational -- even antagonistic -- tone of Federation authorities, when they could do so much to repair relations with the Republic by being conciliatory, by sharing what information they have.
Perhaps it isn't surprising, though. The various nations' governments have all come to power in a time of conflict, a time of war. In many cases, they came into power by explicitly inflaming the passion of their population. When all you have is a hammer... |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1441
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 16:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Looking back, I'm sure a lot of people weren't exactly proud that he was killed that way. So yeah, it's hypocritical. Sorry if it came off that way. Just trying to play a bit of devil's advocate in case someone tries to report me as some anti-Fed terrorist who needs to 'disappear.'
Point stands though that the Court's should be actively updating the Republic on the current status of the investigation. It's not like the Republic would break ties with the Federation if it was a racist nut job. Every Empire has them. If he is, and he's found guilty (which he will be I bet), then he'll be punished severely. Why can't the Fed Court's let the Republic know what's up?
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Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 16:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
It is not right that the Federal authorities have not released more details about the suspect, or the circumstances surrounding the attack.
I hope that this can be corrected as soon as possible.
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Katarina Musana
Phyrean Logistics Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 16:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:Ava Starfire wrote:This is the first that I have heard that the victims were exclusively Minmatar? When was the Federation planning on sharing this? Do NOT commit the error of selective reading and/or taking rhetoric as full truths. Sanmatar Shakor is saying that the attack against the Ray of Matar was by extension an attack on the Minmatar people, NOT that the victims were exclusively Minmatar. Read the entire article. The Supreme Court has said... "This was a crime committed by a Federation citizen on Federation soil with a majority of Federation victims"
That could very simply mean that most of the Minmatar victims were Federation citizens. It in no way excludes the possibility, which the article implies, that the victims were all Minmatar. |
Ava Starfire
Gradient Electus Matari
897
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 16:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Looking back, I'm sure a lot of people weren't exactly proud that he was killed that way. So yeah, it's hypocritical. Sorry if it came off that way. Just trying to play a bit of devil's advocate in case someone tries to report me as some anti-Fed terrorist who needs to 'disappear.'
Point stands though that the Court's should be actively updating the Republic on the current status of the investigation. It's not like the Republic would break ties with the Federation if it was a racist nut job. Every Empire has them. If he is, and he's found guilty (which he will be I bet), then he'll be punished severely. Why can't the Fed Court's let the Republic know what's up?
Honey, I sincerely hope that simple dissenting words do not really get one labelled as "someone who needs to disappear" in a nation which prides itself on freedom of speech. "There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception."
-Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North" |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1442
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 17:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ava Starfire wrote:Honey, I sincerely hope that simple dissenting words do not really get one labelled as "someone who needs to disappear" in a nation which prides itself on freedom of speech.
Well apparently some 'high profile' people think I'm an anti-federalist and well, rumors love to travel. Maybe I'll be asked to submit to 'peaceful questioning.'
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Karmilla Strife
Utopian Research I.E.L. Suddenly Spaceships.
67
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 17:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Obstinacy to the point of inciting your allies to violence. It's almost as if the Federation has something to hide. |
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