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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Demyen
Lonetrek Logistics Corp.
10
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Posted - 2013.05.02 18:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
Immersion, immersion, immersion, immersion.
Start by thinking about how docking and undocking would work if EVE were real. The technology, the processes, the communication, what's automated and what's not, how collisions are avoided, *everything.* Then distill that down to something that works for an online game, but keeps the soul of the "real thing." Heck, talk to the IP guys or ISD Mercury.
EVE is real. CCP's job is just giving us a window into New Eden, one sliver at a time. |
Kytayn
Kronos TEchnologies
144
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Posted - 2013.05.02 19:45:00 -
[122] - Quote
Demyen wrote:Immersion, immersion, immersion, immersion.
Start by thinking about how docking and undocking would work if EVE were real. The technology, the processes, the communication, what's automated and what's not, how collisions are avoided, *everything.* Then distill that down to something that works for an online game, but keeps the soul of the "real thing." Heck, talk to the IP guys or ISD Mercury.
EVE is real. CCP's job is just giving us a window into New Eden, one sliver at a time. Bingo. I was thinking about what is supposed to be happening on undock...
Your pod interface comes up and begins to provide ship data to you. As you undock you have only the station feed, but as you exit into space, your camera parasite drones deploy and begin feeding visual data. Your overview loads as well as any info panels needed to reflect your current status.
What would that look like?
Click undock...
Station interior or docking ring view begins to overlay with module status indicators coming on-line (ship begins to move toward station exit).
As the ship moves toward the exit, shield / armor / hull display initializes.
As the ship enters space camera drone initialization messages scroll briefly and the perspective shifts quickly to the standard camera drone view as the scanner takes a pass on local space.
You've undocked, it still takes only a few seconds, but it's really the undock process visualized for you.
Somewhere on the screen you still get the Abort button. |
Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
180
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Posted - 2013.05.02 20:12:00 -
[123] - Quote
Hit the button once and you dock/undock w/ the animation. If you hit it twice in a row you do a fast dock/undock. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
355
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Posted - 2013.05.02 20:15:00 -
[124] - Quote
No matter how this is done, I think it will require one fixed length animation and one dynamic one.
For undocking, I'm imagining something similar to how acceleration gates currently work:
1) A quick 1-2s for the ship to move out of the private hangar into the undock tunnel. The ship would need to move fairly quickly, possibly assisted by the station. 2) Dynamic launcher that accelerates you up to undock speed and keeps you in a blurry tunnel until loading has finished and spits you out into loaded space. If this is done right, we could even have the undock point be 10-20km from the station to stop docking games.
The animations in the channel might need to be modified slightly to show ships moving in slowly and out rapidly (using models according to other players docking/undocking would be a bonus).
I have no idea how to work docking as we can land anywhere on a station and get pulled in the dock point, meaning either models or warp points will need to be modified for an animation to make sense.
1) Dynamic drift into the station, once the station UI is loaded, swap to: 2) The ship is pulled off into a private hangar.
The second bit happens after the UI is up, so there's no waiting.
This may be a significantly bigger discussion, but giving a player the option of what docking ramp to warp to on a station might be a really neat option. In addition, allowing you to select a different ramp to undock on. Combined with throwing you away from the station on undock would change the station games. It makes undocking players harder to catch (who knows which side they'll fly out and how far they'll go) but also makes undocking much less safe (as you could be flung out into a bubble). DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Elder Ozzian
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
53
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Posted - 2013.05.02 20:34:00 -
[125] - Quote
End with the station games! Give us a 2 min docking / undocking cinematic that you cannot skip. That makes me (as a wormhole dweller) happy - you don't want to hide anymore! I disagree! |
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
95
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Posted - 2013.05.02 21:06:00 -
[126] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:blue danube plz
Ah, the days of the wire frame space station slowly rotating.
God I loved Elite (C64 version for me) |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
182
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Posted - 2013.05.03 04:32:00 -
[127] - Quote
I agree that we have been spoiled by instadocking/undocking.
I wouldnt mind if it took a but longer for a nice animation, would make everything feel real.
And seeing as everyone would get this animation anyway, nobody can complain that they are disadvantaged by it. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
571
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Posted - 2013.05.03 05:32:00 -
[128] - Quote
Can we expect to eventually get an animation that transitions between the CQ and hanger/ CQ and undock
Even just having the avatar walk down the stairs towards an opening pod and then fading to black could be good.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
27
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Posted - 2013.05.09 00:24:00 -
[129] - Quote
Demyen wrote:Immersion, immersion, immersion, immersion. Start by thinking about how docking and undocking would work if EVE were real. The technology, the processes, the communication, what's automated and what's not, how collisions are avoided, *everything.* Then distill that down to something that works for an online game, but keeps the soul of the "real thing." Heck, talk to the IP guys or ISD Mercury.
EVE is real. CCP's job is just giving us a window into New Eden, one sliver at a time.
Except CCP vision for EVE is pretty primitive compared to TODAY. There should be no break in exterior visibility. The difference between wireless connection to station exterior cameras and scans (gee yeah station has system scans) and change over to ship's camera drones should be transparent. The old loss of visibility due to disconnect of hardwires and clearing atmosphere belongs to late 1960s-early 1970s space programs.
And while guns, engines and shields may not go HOT inside station - their computers and interfaces should be full up and simply locked in docked mode. If station does not trust you not to somehow override...easy solution: launch is also bore sight of big gun (also useful for discouraging hostile boardings).
Cold launches of dead ships which then check if they can power up or have system failures from last module install...costly economics.
Cold launches are simply CCP serving that crowd that loves helpless targets. Squeakest wheel concept. Big petition from other side and CCP will reverse itself. Except of course whiney angry pirate types are noisier and more vocal than 10 times their weight in moderate ordinary players.
Thus EVE tends to be a game driven by extreme philosophies of what fun fair and realistic is. Note CCP prefers it that way because vocal EQUALS viral advertising. That is why CCP avoids bland surveys which reflect actual player population preferences. Long live the radicals in CSM and forums. |
Faulker Gath'nor
Templar Directorate Holdings Templar Command
107
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 01:46:00 -
[130] - Quote
Perhaps make it an option if you have the Captains Quarters activated. As that represents perhaps a "different playstyle", it could be a good addition.
Or just an "Express Undock" button, down there with the already existent "Undock"... whats one more button at this point? |
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Kuang Jao
Arcturus Industries
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 02:38:00 -
[131] - Quote
I actually find this to be a bit of a conundrum. The majority of players here enjoy Eve because of it's level of realism (relative to other games, with their hearthstones and death mechanics, etc.). The idea that I can dock my ship in a massive station, move my pod from one ship to another (which "magically" appears, btw), then undock the new ship and be back in space all in a matter of seconds is quite preposterous. Yet, remove the ability to do this and the Eve faithful will complain.
The only course is to make it optional then. However, dev hours would be committed to something that would, most likely, be watched once by most players and then disabled forever. Bit of a waste.
It seems to me that including an undocking animation at the launch of the game, back in 2003, would have been the only way to pull this off without upsetting players. And to me, with all the other "unrealism" going on regarding docking mechanics, a short clip of a ship floating down a hallway would be unnecessary fluff. |
Adunh Slavy
754
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 03:11:00 -
[132] - Quote
Docking and undocking has become pretty quick compared to days gone by. Not sure how much time there is for a scene of much impact or immersion. Same with the new jump gates, looks pretty but system change times are pretty darn quick these days.
However, just sitting around the hangar could be much more interesting. I'd like to see people walking around loading and unloading cargo, fueling ships, the sparkle and flash of some welding being done by some guy in an Anti-Grav suit. I'd like to see other ships on neighboring pads, perhaps the ships that have been docked by actual players. Would like to look down the "hall" and see the ships that are docking and undocking, not that I would know who they are of course or interact with them in anyway, just add some traffic and life to the scene.
These stations are huge, and lots and lots of people live on them,, and we never see them. |
Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 05:01:00 -
[133] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Hate to hijack the thread but you should also consider much LESS docking.
Some things like talking to agents, offloading, recharging your shield/cap could be done outside the station. If this is done, making a longer docking animation would be more tolerable and it would bring life to the area outside the station with parked ships and little drones flying around to move cargo, repair, guide ships into place etc. The need to dock could be limited to hiding from combat or changing ships.
I think it would be an improvement to stations that outside of places like Jita feel like this dead thing in space.
I'm probably beating a dead horse here... but I would like to see something that will allow us to accept and/or complete missions with Agents from within the same Region. Maybe even make a Social skill that would increase the range you can do this, or base it on Standing. If the mission requires an item, then the player would need to come to the Agent's station to get it or drop it off of course, and any mission reward would be left at the station for the player to go get at their convenience. This would reduce the need to actually be transitioning in and out of the station, and I would assume would also be slightly server-load friendly since you don't have players loading in and out of the stations all the time (not that I'm claiming I know anything about how the server mechanics work). It would keep players out in space longer, which would mean more opportunities for profit or loss (PVP). As much as we like our Agents, we don't need to handshake on every deal. We can just text them or something. :) |
Adela Talvanen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2013.05.09 11:42:00 -
[134] - Quote
I'd like to see traffic of other players going in either direction in the docking bay tunnel entrance, so the station doesn't feel like a ghost town.
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
943
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:29:00 -
[135] - Quote
Uzbeg Khan wrote:Docking/jump graphics and station interiors are very important aspects of the game.
windows?!
CCP like to avoid windows, last time they messed with windows they deleted the boot.ini
Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg CCP Hilmar CEO > "why am i sweating, why is the game doing this to me"
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Niddengolliah
VoodooTank Industries Games of Divinity
4
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:59:00 -
[136] - Quote
This is the current iteration of undocking in SiSi: YouTube link
To be honest it looks pretty good, would like to see the ship start moving towards the exit while the lights start blinking (some sirens would be nice too ).
EDIT: Nevermind, turns out you can abort by clicking undock again! |
Adela Talvanen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:16:00 -
[137] - Quote
Mr Kronos wrote:I know *no-one* (cough), uses the CQ, but the exit and entering pod sequences?
I do. |
Ylariana
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:39:00 -
[138] - Quote
Personally, I think that anything that extends the time taken to transition from one game environ to another (station to space, system to system) is wasted effort. Once you have seen the animation 1,2,5,50 times it stops being immersion and becomes something to ignore while you wait to do what you play the game to do. The new Gate Jump sequence is a good example, Its pretty, my jaw dropped when i saw it the first time, but if it makes the system change take longer I dont see any use in adding it. Call it a Transitional Animation or John Smith for all I care, its just a disguise for a loading bar.
Same Length of Time for Transition or dont add it in without a Disable Animation option.
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KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
213
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:10:00 -
[139] - Quote
Ylariana wrote:Personally, I think that anything that extends the time taken to transition from one game environ to another (station to space, system to system) is wasted effort. Once you have seen the animation 1,2,5,50 times it stops being immersion and becomes something to ignore while you wait to do what you play the game to do. The new Gate Jump sequence is a good example, Its pretty, my jaw dropped when i saw it the first time, but if it makes the system change take longer I dont see any use in adding it. Call it a Transitional Animation or John Smith for all I care, its just a disguise for a loading bar.
Same Length of Time for Transition or dont add it in without a Disable Animation option.
The gate jump animation does one other thing you forget to mention:
The lack of seeing a loading bar makes it feel less like you just joined another instance and more like its one fluid world. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
171
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:42:00 -
[140] - Quote
I think the crucial thing is that everyone's undock takes exactly the same time regardless of their hardware, connection speed or whether or not they have the animations activated.
Though I do like the ideas of : 1. an 'emergency undock' which is quicker but can do random damage to a ship. 2. a Station Navigation skill that reduces dock/undock time by 10% a level.
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Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
487
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:47:00 -
[141] - Quote
Ylariana wrote:Personally, I think that anything that extends the time taken to transition from one game environ to another (station to space, system to system) is wasted effort. Once you have seen the animation 1,2,5,50 times it stops being immersion and becomes something to ignore while you wait to do what you play the game to do.
Why does this logic not apply to the warp animation? That's a simple, repetitive (but pretty!) animation that doesn't even cover up a transition--from that point of view, it's a completely artificial tax on time--but I don't see anyone complaining about it.
Ylariana wrote:Same Length of Time for Transition or dont add it in without a Disable Animation option.
If there's a tactical advantage to turning off the animation, 90% of the game will turn it off and forget about it, and the effort will be wasted, just as they have with the much slower CQ load. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Gordwin Sendare
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:58:00 -
[142] - Quote
It could be quite a short animation ; player clicks undock, camera quickly transitions from station avatar to ship, ship aligns down the exit and starts moving, flash of light and you're coming out of the undock.
Not sure how it would work for players with captain's quarters disabled, though |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
360
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 15:13:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCP would have to finally resize stations to be realistic for capitals. Most capitals undock from stations with entrances 10 times smaller. |
Shugga Ditz
Chaos Army
8
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:23:00 -
[144] - Quote
Seems no one has any ideas on how to make the video a SEAMLESS transition into space yet, so I'll give it a go.
* Fade to black is stupid * got to work for every ship every station * has to be quick * has to provide a seamless view from inside the station to outside in space * When you hit the undock button, your camera can be looking at your ship at any distance, and could even conceivably be looking round the station hanger if your arsing about with the mouse.
So: Step 1 is to rotate the camera position directly in front of the ship, looking back at it (your back is to the station exit tunnel) Step 2 is to animate the ship getting ready to undock (lights, steam, pipes dropping off whatever) (step 2 can overlap step 1) Step 3 is to accelerate the camera away from the ship, still looking at it, down the exit corridor (backwards), hard left (at which point your ship drops out of view as you go round the corner) - your ship may or may not actually move in this bit of the animation it doesn't matter
The camera is now looking backwards down a standard station exit corridor, with open space behind you
Step 4 - the camera swings about 180 degrees facing forward (so you can see the space outside) Step 5 - the camera moves to the edge of the station undock Step 6 - your ship flies **through** the plane of vision into space and the camera swings to its default position.
Its a lot of swinging about - might be seasickness... But it could happen quickly, would be seamless and wouldn't have any crappy fade to black stuff. Importantly the (unique view) of the inside of the hanger and the unique view of the outside of the station are never 'in shot' together so the two ends of the animation can be stitched together at a common frame in the middle.
OK - I'm not sold on it, just throwing it out there as a straw-man. SK
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KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
215
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:39:00 -
[145] - Quote
I personally dont like the ideas that involve cutting away at some point.
The whole idea behind the animation is to make it feel like you never really changed to another environment.
I want to see my ship coming from inside the hanger and into space, like it was just walking through a corridor. into an open room.
I want to feel like I was actually inside that station, not some parallel interior dimension. |
Draqone an'Alreigh
EVE University Ivy League
20
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:47:00 -
[146] - Quote
Just make something like engines heating up, and then something like a rocket take off. The longer you take to undock the longer the engines take to heat up and the ship to undock. |
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance
183
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:04:00 -
[147] - Quote
as usual, players in EVE like to have the option NOT to have something. maybe 2 variations of undock? normal (with animation) and priority (as is now)
I'd enjoy having the animation, as long as I could push out in an emergency and skip it.
you could just also have the option for them to turn it off in client settings
and/or people can hit escape to skip the animation |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
16
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:17:00 -
[148] - Quote
Personally don't need to see my ship undock. If this is implemented, I hope it can be turned off. I'm here to watch things disappear from my overview at extreme zoom range, not watch pretty animations of mundane repetitive tasks. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
424
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:36:00 -
[149] - Quote
The thing I remember most about undocking is the sounds; dull metallic thuncks resonating through the hull as massive clamps and hatches are secured, the boatswains whistle and static announcements about emergency disembarkation procedures, the ringing of boots on aluminum ladders, vibrations and low hum of great engines coming to life. I would almost leave the screen black and include a random assortment of mysterious sound. Use the blackness to highlight this and let the lifting of the veil upon entering space be the wow moment.
What I would most like to see is the "abort undock" radio button hot keyed to cntr-space. That would save me a bunch of undock-redock-put xyz in cargo hold-undock again moments. -áImmersion = gameplayer self worth? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsEPP3YQcxQ |
Oberine Noriepa
1192
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:03:00 -
[150] - Quote
I'm all for a docking/undocking animation, but I think the hangars, in their current state, are not designed in the practical sense for accommodating such a thing. During the art panel, some members of the development team expressed an interest in redesigning the hangars and the experience they provide. This panel was shown. In redesigning the hangars, some exploration can be made as far as redeveloping how ships dock or undock, which can thus allow the possibility of a seamless experience that does not step back from the functionality and speed of how the process currently works. |
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