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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
241
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you ever wanted to be a spacefaring taxman, you are in luck! CCP Omen shares some information on the upcoming player-operated planetary customs offices in his latest dev blog.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ra Voreen wrote:How will it work in null-sec ? Are the planets still reserved to the alliance that holds sov ?
We are undecided on this topic, it could go either way right now any preference? Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good point, it should, however, there is a tool tip on all the headlines that explains more. I'll try and have someone fix it.
Cheers Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Did this one change just make low-sec and NPC null-sec industrial alliances a worthy endeavor? Control access to the good planets and mutual defense of customs offices and those using them.
This looks an indy upgrade to low-sec to me.
In our wildest dreams, yes =) Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
engjin wrote:Very cool.
They can also be blown up I hope?
Yes, once they exit reinforcement.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Very interesting...
Edit: Why not in hi sec to ?
We consider Player Owned Customs Offices in High-Sec a MUCH bigger impact on the game and the economy. It's not part of what we are doing now, but we aren't excluding it if this feature pans out well =)
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Starr Tookus wrote:So this makes setting up your planets for launches important in case jerks run the customs office. I like that.
Question: What kinds of defenses can be installed?
Currently: Nothing.
You will have to defend your customs office with space ships, (beside the reinforcement). From comments to the blog, we realize there is a worry that all customs offices will be griefed all the time. I promise we will keep an eye on this, but our hope is that a new type of players/corporations can emerge that are paid to protect customs office etc. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Brunaburh wrote:A few comments:
- Customs offices should have a maintenance or upkeep cost, and that cost should vary with the security status of the system they are implemented in. Frankly, this should exist for Player Outposts in nullsec too, but since that ship is currently at sea, this should be caught before leaving harbor. Why? Simplest reason is because with no ongoing cost, there is no drawback to, say, Pandemic Legion installing customs offices on all the valid production planets in VFK (Goonswarm space).
- I'm assuming that (like towers and stations) Customs offices can be repped when they come out of R/F - although this was not specifically addressed.
I like that losec customs offices are owned by corporations, this does present some interesting gameplay (um, griefing tactics) for corps that are trying to use losec for PI but not invested or residing in the systems they use.
- If a planet has a customs office installed, does that mean people who do not have access to said customs office cannot use planet for production, or can they still do launches? I would hope the former, since part of the purpose of the customs office should be to block access to assets, but the latter isn't a horrible option. This needs to be clear up front.
- Also, taxes. The whole "tariff" seems pretty vague. Is it based on market price of the product? Is it based on volume? Is it based on rarity? Devil in the details. I'd like some please.
There is no upkeep cost currently. The Customs Office is very relevant in our future plans (don't dare go in to specifics right here, right now) so increased capability and costs will probably be added in the future.
Players can still do launches. The Customs Office does not dictate who can build a command center.
the tax thing is quite complex, (to my own surprise when I took it on) but whenever you do percent, there has to be a value at the bottom to modify with the percent. In the "real" world, customs are paid as actual money for any given commodity. Like for instance, 1kg Banana costs 1 USD or whatever. This is the tariff. This cost, is set by CCP on every single item that can flow to/from planets and the owner of the customs office modifies how much of that value he wants. This value existed before this change as well, and was precisely what you paid for import and export. We have increased it significantly but in turn, the default value is 5% which is the same as before =)
Hope that makes any sense!
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
muhuh Aihaken wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Good point, it should, however, there is a tool tip on all the headlines that explains more. I'll try and have someone fix it. Cheers Omen Can we get a checkbox to set it for alliance only rather than having to make all our friends +5? Also is it based off corp standings or alliance standings?
It's a good suggestion, I'll add that to our wishlist. It is standing towards the owning corporation.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
David Carel wrote:a) Will it be possible to set a tax rate for different standings/groups? Say, Alliance has 0%, +10 has 0% too, +5 has 10%, +0 has 20%, -5 has 50% and -10 has 100%?
b) Can you anchor a Customs Office next to a station/outpost?
Wow, that was a good idea but it's not the case. If the time fairy smiles, then maybe...but don't count on it. The Customs Office can be anchored a certain distance from a planet, it doesn't perform any more checks than that. So I guess you can have it close by an Outpost but not by a POS, since they are around moons.
Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Starr Tookus wrote:So this makes setting up your planets for launches important in case jerks run the customs office. I like that.
Question: What kinds of defenses can be installed? Currently: Nothing. You will have to defend your customs office with space ships, (beside the reinforcement). From comments to the blog, we realize there is a worry that all customs offices will be griefed all the time. I promise we will keep an eye on this, but our hope is that a new type of players/corporations can emerge that are paid to protect customs office etc. Mimidae Risk Solutions in first. :) The major issue, I have to tell you, with that thinking - as a Mercenary already, is that the value has to definitely increase enough to want to hire Mercs to do it. It's also the BLOB factor. The reality is, no Merc can outblob a major alliance/crew. it is just not happening (Unless you're PL I guess). Without some control on the BLOB factor, there is no way that you're going to stop griefing from happening. I think you're going to have to rethink that carefully, especially for Null Sec. HEY< WE"RE ALL BORED< LET"S GO SHOOT SOME CUSTOMS OFFICES IN NPC PLANET SPACE. I love the idea, but you're not going to stop the griefing by simply using the reinforcement timer function. It's going to become a sov mechanic all over again. The biggest numbers win. Over and over. You need to fix that and make it viable in other ways.
Appreciate the feedback. It's a tough nut, we have some ideas for the future, so hopefully, while there are no protection, those fights will be relatively isolated to particular systems in space. The value dynamic is very interesting, if alliances terrorize customs offices, there will be fewer around and the prices go up so bigger incentives to set one up again and protect it. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:While I do support putting more control into the players hands, I am a little sad about this change from the perspective of someone who lives in a wormhole. I hope the customs offices are either A: not too expensive, or B: fairly durable. Basically I'm envisioning people coming into occupied wormholes, blowing up customs offices, and leaving. No real interaction, just costing us money for the sake of griefing.
Also, nice touch adding the BP to the faction warfare stores. I know it isn't much, but I hope the little attention paid to the abysmal feature of FW will be appreciated.
We gave this a lot of thought, and the CSM helped in significantly lowering the costs from what we had initially planned. All the materials are in the blog so you can both figure out what it will cost you, and even prepare a stash with those materials. One point to note is that the CO is still operational while in reinforcement, so unless the aggressor sticks around for the entire time you'll just rep the office back up when they are gone. If this becomes a big problem, we have solutions to mitigate it.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dr Mercy wrote:Any comments on HP levels?
=HP scpecification= * Customs Office Gantry ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 500,000 ** Structure: 300,000
* Customs Office ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 2,500,000 ** Structure: 2,000,000
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Raquel Smith wrote:No sir, I don't like it. Although let's clear a few of my misgivings up:
- If there is no POCO will we be able to do imports and exports?
- Will I be able to anchor these things in enemy space to impede their PI?
- What does it mean to have an anchored POCO with a tax rate of 100% rate? How about 0%?
- Who collects the taxes?
- Coke Zero or Diet Coke?
- How many hitpoints and what resists on the POCO?
- Can I now set up planets in systems in which my alliance do not hold sov? (Ninja-PI?) Can my alliance stop enemies from setting up planets in our space?
- What is the equivalent tax rate of the existing customs offices?
No but you can do launches with your Command Center Yes, you might not be able to actually do PI though (this is undecided as visible in other comments) 100% means that the cost of an item is 100% of its tariff which is set by CCP per item, for instance 6000 ISK for 1 unit of Robotics. 0% means 0% of 6000. The corporation that owns the customs office get the taxed ISK in their corp wallet Zero! (because it's for boys apparently) See my other replies Yes and No, you have to enforce your space with spaceships, If your alliance have all planet's customs offices already then your enemy must first take them down before putting up their own 5% Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Raziphan Rebular wrote:Why require corporations? Okay so I love PI it's something everyone can do with a little skill, and a lot of understanding. But this move, takes PI away from the little guy and moves it into the hands of corporations. Why must these custom offices be ran by corporations and not simply players? Why can't becoming a baron of a ton of profitable planets be another possibility for players? It's always irked me that only Corporations can setup Poses, and now it seems like only corporation will be able to run their own customs office despite the fact they seem to be well with in the range of the single player to afford and deploy.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CCP make it so that we can launch our own personal custom offices as well not simply 'for the corporation'.
It's really quite cheap to create your own one man corporation. Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Omen wrote: You will have to defend your customs office with space ships, (beside the reinforcement). From comments to the blog, we realize there is a worry that all customs offices will be griefed all the time. I promise we will keep an eye on this, but our hope is that a new type of players/corporations can emerge that are paid to protect customs office etc.
To continue to emphasize this Blob factor with a tangible example : Little tiny alliance of 100 people puts up Customs Offices in one low sec system. Goonswarm with 500 people goes and reinforces all the planetary timers in System X. Who is the tiny little alliance going to hire that is going to stop goonswarm? PL? Ya, ok. No way taxes are going to make up for hiring a major merc alliance to stop Goons. I also thought you were going to move away form the "Shooting Structures" bit? How long does it take to take a Customs Office down? Why not bring 500 people and 100 supercaps to do this? Because faster is better. How can anyone stop a mega-blob if they're not already mega-blob capable? Noone wants to shoot structures, so they just develop ways of shooting structures FASTER. So more supercaps and more death on the field. Low Sec is already screwed up with a boring Null Sec, that PL is living in Amamake and other null sec alliances have been trolling through low sec with super caps on stand by. Shooting structures is bad, do you have plans to change this as we go forward, just as has been mentioned for Null Sec sov changes? So, it becomes a population issue, the more populated areas will be more valuable, for more throughput for more taxes. But who can and will contest with the major alliances in low sec, if the major alliances want to take that all over?
We are avoiding "shooting at structures" but it's a catch 22. If you introduce a structure, nature sort of demands that it can be destroyed Our goal is that people will show up and fight around the structures, but it's a tough one. Your concern is duly noted, but it's a much larger issue than just this, and we are thinking about it.
Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hathrul wrote:CCP Omen wrote: The Customs Office can be anchored a certain distance from a planet, it doesn't perform any more checks than that. So I guess you can have it close by an Outpost but not by a POS, since they are around moons.
so if you can change the location a bit of your custom office, will it have to be scanned down? because whats the point otherwise of having an area to deploy it and if the location can be chosen, how will it be found and used? will it be done with combat scanner probes? still on overview for people with good standings? will you be able to set standings like +10 can see it on overview?
CONCORD (or someone) demands that all Customs Offices are always visible on the Overview per default no matter who owns them. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sir HappyPants wrote:Jack Dant wrote:Sir HappyPants wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Dr Mercy wrote:Any comments on HP levels? =HP scpecification= * Customs Office Gantry ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 500,000 ** Structure: 300,000 * Customs Office ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 2,500,000 ** Structure: 2,000,000 Regards Omen That would take a long time for a lone supercap pilot for anyone who may be wondering... I doubt too many drive-by-POCO bimbing will happen with HP this high... 12 minutes to reinforce with a solo nyx is not "a long time". 12 minutes in space and potentially vulnerable, especially solo? Long enough to make some (most?) supercap owners think twice imo. That said, with HP values that high, it'll be another thing that will "need" a blob.
We will try and figure out how to avoid the blob incentive without making the experience of owning one, EVEN WORSE. It's a very delicate problem. The relative low value of most CO might be enough not to warrant assembling a blob.
Regards Omen
Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ra Voreen wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Ra Voreen wrote:How will it work in null-sec ? Are the planets still reserved to the alliance that holds sov ? We are undecided on this topic, it could go either way right now any preference? Omen Maybe restrict the ability to build the custom office to the alliance that have sov, but allow everybody to launch command center. That will allow "rogue PI" in enemy space, but keeping a (good) advantage to the sov holder. I dont think it will be used a lot, but it adds a nice little thing to the game, and a bit more immersion. Also, this will allow people to have 0.0 areas with open PI. I am thinking about CVA or the Goon's idea of Delve thunderdome here. Also, please allow a corp to transfer the ownership of the CO to another, to allow corp that leave alliances to transfer CO, like the way they can transfer iHubs now. Ideally, you could also include it in the contract system, to allow a corp to sell its CO to another one, which can be a nice and interesting business ;)
Yeah, you should absolutely be able to transfer ownership of a CO. We'll try and get this done. Regarding sov space, we need to think about that, and all your feedback is very appreciated.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Captain Byte wrote:Why not simplify the whole idea, and make a Customs Office a POS module. One Customs Office per system. Having one at each planet makes NO sense. That way you address all the Sov questions posted. It also answers fueling questions, and vulnerability questions. BTW, who gets the tax on launches?
Something that is a real pain, and I wish you were addressing is the lack of corporate PI. Everything is geared to the individual, forcing each character to handle their own import/export, rather than production being corporate oriented.
Make the PI interface simpler overall. The click fest we have now is riduculous. The Science and Industry overview should be useful for more than opening Planet Mode to reset production cycles. Show the detail for each planet module, and allow use to reset them from there. Oh, and get rid of the timer slider. Let us enter the time directly. While it may be 'pretty', it's not very functional.
Leave wormholes alone. The only thing they're good for is PI and ratting. And jacking the tax in hi-sec? PI is a worthless endeavor there now. You need to be in null sec or a wormhole before the concentrations let you make any money. Even then, you can make more ISK per hour ratting.
That said, if you persist in this change, I'm hoarding my level 4 PI production, because their value is going through the roof.
The very fact that the prices will go through the roof suggests that PI in highsec can be very profitable at times? Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Will customs offices still appear on the overview as they do today? Yes Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dinta Zembo wrote:So this means that if I'm the only person using a bunch of planets for PI, I will have to personally invest hundreds of millions of ISK in to buying 5 customs offices? Don't think so.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Someone else could set them up and you just use them and pay taxes? Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:If you are going to blow up every PO on launch date, I hope you thought what you are going to do with all the stuff in those offices. Are you going to blow it up as well??
I can already see PI prices spiking, regardless of the increase in link capacity. The stuff that you have in the CO's will be teleported to a station hangar. I forgot the exact details of which station etc. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:If I got this right, these structures will have a bit less EHP than small towers, and cost about 80m ISK to build and set up (including the BPC from a FW corp). There is basically zero risk going to one and trying to blow it up - even if you are alone in some small ship. It will just take a while.
I'm not sure this is particularly good. It invites "bored people" to just reinforce a few customs offices etc. when no one is around. It would likely be good to keep an eye on how that plays out. They might might need some kind of protection (make it possible to anchor POS batteries around it?)
Also, do customs offices continue to work while reinforced?
We will absolutely monitor this closely. Yes they continue to work while reinforced. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mikron Alexarr wrote:30mil for the first stage module, another 30 in parts to upgrade it to functionality. BPC cost 6k LP and 20mil from CONCORD LP store (incursion) or 3k LP and 10mil from factional warfare LP stores.
So, weGÇÖll probably see 200mil for the first mods. After a month, itGÇÖs possible prices will drop to 100mil. We probably wonGÇÖt see bottom dollar (~75mil) for at least 3-6 months. This doesnGÇÖt even begin to address the HUGE spike in PI material prices that weGÇÖll see. The early speculation alone will spike prices to minimum 200% up to a month before release and final details are set in place. Towers are going to also see an incredible increase in price due to simple demand for the parts for the customs offices. Although they probably are not produced or consumed in high enough volumes for the price increase to be very noticeable at first. Simply fueling towers will also become more burdensome, especially in the early days of the release of the feature.
All mechanics aside, I don't see this as a positive change. There are just not enough benefits coming from the change for players as a whole. I will say that the small operator out in low-sec is faced with a decision of putting the mods out and risking large sums of isk or simply packing up and going back to mission running. I'm curious as to how much these 'small operators' are contributing to the supply of PI materials.
Inflation is also a concern. You're removing a consistent isk sink and introducing a 'one-time' sink in the cost of the BPCs. WIth the prices posted, I think you're overestimating how often these structures will be destroyed. The structure shooting game will be fun at first, but over time, I see this as a concern.
Essentially, for awhile, towers will see a rapid decline in usage or simply a higher cost of operation. Invasion of space will see a similar effect. I see those two things as a very good reason to consider further development of the feature. More benefits should be added to the process of PI, such as (mentioned several times in this thread alone) simplified PI management, tools that help ease the click-fest, and possibly an increase in PI yeild from all planets to help deal with the supply shock.
Let's agree to disagree, one comment though, Since highsec taxes are doubled, and highsec produce 50% of all PI goods that should help counter the inflation, if we have overestimated the kill ratio for the offices themselves. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Omen wrote: We will try and figure out how to avoid the blob incentive without making the experience of owning one, EVEN WORSE. It's a very delicate problem. The relative low value of most CO might be enough not to warrant assembling a blob.
Regards Omen
this looks like it has a stupidly good passive tank: can that be nerfed some so that small gangs don't have most of their dps removed by shield regen? The shield regen is extremly slow! Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ruairi iliffe wrote:CCP Omen wrote: The Customs Office is very relevant in our future plans (don't dare go in to specifics right here, right now) so increased capability and costs will probably be added in the future. Its the fact that in ALL the DUST media you keep showing an Orbital Elevator isnt it? That at some point we can upgrade the Offices to become either a full fledged station, i mean, We knew at some point we are to have a location in space for us to fight over, and PI control would be determined by who controls both the ground and sky, the fact we can attack them with this idea means its part of the set up to full interaction, heck even that was shown in the trailers. EDIT: Also that leads into why this is Low sec and 0.0 only for the charges and ownership.... /tinfoil hat off Anyway that was my random 'it all makes sense' moment.
The answer is 42. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:It seems to me that part of the goal of this change is to give small gangs more "targets of opportunity" that they can use to harass larger alliances. As such, can you tell me if the following option is on the table: Aside from just the "glory" of reinforcing one of these offices, do the attackers get any reward (i.e. PI materials from the office) either when they reinforce it, or after they destroy it, or both?
Your comment earlier indicates that you would still be able to withdraw materials even in reinforced mode, which means that any physical reward to taking one of these down is pretty minor, and that even the tactical or strategic reward would be very minor at best.
Yes, we don't incentivize taking Customs Offices down, other than if you want the spot or want to refuse the current owner access. We want it to be a political feature more than a mechanical one. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Dinta Zembo wrote:So this means that if I'm the only person using a bunch of planets for PI, I will have to personally invest hundreds of millions of ISK in to buying 5 customs offices? Don't think so.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Someone else could set them up and you just use them and pay taxes? LOL. I wonder who these mysterious strangers will be running around chucking up PCOs everywhere? The best planets will get PCOs and the rest will just stop being used.
Correct, but it doesn't have to be you that sets up the PCO at the best planet, it could still be someone else. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 16:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Raziphan Rebular wrote:XavierVE wrote:Quote:Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec. And then CCP wonders why most players never leave high-sec. Ya I'm just a guy and I'm not part of some alliance, just a small corporation but I do my PI in lowsec, it's not great to have the Devs tell me 'tough *****' go do PI in highsec. I'm taking the risk here shouldn't I get some sort of reward? Instead I'm getting shoved out of Lowsec so that larger corporations that have massive resources can control everything. PI was great because it was accessible to all, now it's just another resource for alliances to fight over.
That's not our intention, if you are a small corp you are very much the focus of this. But honestly, what if a large alliance takes control of a CO and charge you 9% tax? Isn't that fine? they provide the service, you pay for it and it's cheaper than highsec? Our assumption is that Alliances or any corp will want to make money off their CO in low-sec. If that assumption turns out to be wrong, then we might intervene with a future update.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 16:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:Love the player-driven approach even if it is going to kill my income stream. Oh well, improvise, adapt, overcome.
Questions: 1) Looks like we can now launch and avoid customs (subject to ugly volume restrictions) - please confirm. 2) Courier contracts at customs offices? This is the feature really needed/lacking from PI production. Coming? 3) When does this go live? 4) Are you sending Vaseline to POS owners? They'll need it when we producers factor this in to fuel pricing...
1) confirmed 2) Not planned, good idea though 3) I'm not sure if I am at liberty to tell, but it's ready to go 4) If it turns out to be too much of an upset, we will take action. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
21
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Posted - 2011.10.18 16:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mikron Alexarr wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Mikron Alexarr wrote:30mil for the first stage module, another 30 in parts to upgrade it to functionality. BPC cost 6k LP and 20mil from CONCORD LP store (incursion) or 3k LP and 10mil from factional warfare LP stores.
So, weGÇÖll probably see 200mil for the first mods. After a month, itGÇÖs possible prices will drop to 100mil. We probably wonGÇÖt see bottom dollar (~75mil) for at least 3-6 months. This doesnGÇÖt even begin to address the HUGE spike in PI material prices that weGÇÖll see. The early speculation alone will spike prices to minimum 200% up to a month before release and final details are set in place. Towers are going to also see an incredible increase in price due to simple demand for the parts for the customs offices. Although they probably are not produced or consumed in high enough volumes for the price increase to be very noticeable at first. Simply fueling towers will also become more burdensome, especially in the early days of the release of the feature.
All mechanics aside, I don't see this as a positive change. There are just not enough benefits coming from the change for players as a whole. I will say that the small operator out in low-sec is faced with a decision of putting the mods out and risking large sums of isk or simply packing up and going back to mission running. I'm curious as to how much these 'small operators' are contributing to the supply of PI materials.
Inflation is also a concern. You're removing a consistent isk sink and introducing a 'one-time' sink in the cost of the BPCs. WIth the prices posted, I think you're overestimating how often these structures will be destroyed. The structure shooting game will be fun at first, but over time, I see this as a concern.
Essentially, for awhile, towers will see a rapid decline in usage or simply a higher cost of operation. Invasion of space will see a similar effect. I see those two things as a very good reason to consider further development of the feature. More benefits should be added to the process of PI, such as (mentioned several times in this thread alone) simplified PI management, tools that help ease the click-fest, and possibly an increase in PI yeild from all planets to help deal with the supply shock. Let's agree to disagree, one comment though, Since highsec taxes are doubled, and highsec produce 50% of all PI goods that should help counter the inflation, if we have overestimated the kill ratio for the offices themselves. Agreed :) 50% is the current contribution. How will that change when the supply coming from non-high sec adjusts to the mechanics change and surpases high-sec contribution? Again, if I was a more active player pulling in money from many different sources this would be a much smaller concern. The state of the economy affects the casual player more than anyone since their money flow is much slower (not necessarily smaller). Is there any word on possible UI improvements that will be released along with this new feature? Hilmar did mention in his post that the player base would be heard on calls for improvements for existing features.
What I can say is that we have improved the UI that specifically concern the Customs Office. I can't speak for other features I'm afraid... Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
21
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Posted - 2011.10.18 16:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aynen wrote:Well, there goes my wormhole space Ninja-PI operation. I had all my alts set up in one wh system where they do PI even though the system is occupied by another corp with far superior numbers and capabilities. With these changes, my main source of income will be gone, which was substantial when all planets are running at capacity.
When these changes get onto TQ, the occupying corp will make the costums offices, and I won't have access anymore exept for the small canisters I can shoot into orbit. Personally I'd have created a system where the ninja wh PI player can have his place, like having to bribe the costums officers or something. Or, in favor of more interaction, building a temporary pirate station that will appear on overview in the system and takes 15 minutes to make ready for use, then, after a certain amount has been transfered through it, it blows up. This way there's a bit more danger to Ninja-wh-PI and it creates an environment that stimulates pvp.
You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.
If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
21
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Posted - 2011.10.18 16:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Liandra Xi wrote:The question I have is this: in 0.0 only the owning alliance who has sov in the system can use PI on the planets in the system anyway, so as far as I can tell the standings thing in 0.0 is useless, unless it now allows you to let allies use your planets where they couldn't before. Would love a proper confirmation on how that is intended to actually work in nullsec.
One of the undecided things still is if we throw out that old sov exclusivity in favor of the standings check on the PCO. Regardless of that though, what you can do in 0.0 is to ninja-launch a PCO in your enemy's space and set the standing requirement to +10. this way, your enemy alliance can't do import/export on the planet and must rely on cans until they can destroy your CO and put up their own.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
24
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Xython wrote:I don't see this going over well in Nullsec, considering how frustrating getting these things up will be, and how we're going to have to install one on every single planet we want to do PI on. Not to mention how many random roving annoyances will pop them just to be a jerk. Will we be able to place defenses up? Get alerts when they're getting attacked? Have a chance to repair them?
I just don't know. It sounds like a fun idea, but at the same time, it sounds like it could make it a bit more difficult than it should be. Wonder if there could be a "default" NPC Customs Office that we could upgrade instead.
Poor you with so many planets! There should absolutely be a notification of some sort. Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
24
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jake Centauri wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Raziphan Rebular wrote:XavierVE wrote:Quote:Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec. And then CCP wonders why most players never leave high-sec. Ya I'm just a guy and I'm not part of some alliance, just a small corporation but I do my PI in lowsec, it's not great to have the Devs tell me 'tough *****' go do PI in highsec. I'm taking the risk here shouldn't I get some sort of reward? Instead I'm getting shoved out of Lowsec so that larger corporations that have massive resources can control everything. PI was great because it was accessible to all, now it's just another resource for alliances to fight over. That's not our intention, if you are a small corp you are very much the focus of this. But honestly, what if a large alliance takes control of a CO and charge you 9% tax? Isn't that fine? they provide the service, you pay for it and it's cheaper than highsec? Our assumption is that Alliances or any corp will want to make money off their CO in low-sec. If that assumption turns out to be wrong, then we might intervene with a future update. Regards Omen Why would a large alliance charge anything less than 100% tax for planets "open to the public?" Market prices? 100% of nothing is still nothing. At the end of the day, we will have to see, if all goes to hell, we can change the variables.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
24
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Omen,
I hope you will seed some ready made customs ofices on the market for the first few days/weeks. There are a limited number of planets in the game, but there are obviously lots of people using several planets at the moment basically for free. In future you will have to manage in low/null/w-space the number of offices your corp puts up, and so on. However, immediately, this is going to cause a gigantic crunch in POS fuel supplies for a short while until gantries are rolled out, and the BPC's purchased with LP's, manufactured etc.
I say this as a w-space dweller. While I think it is way cool that there will be more things to shoot, and this is a buff for FW, there's also clearly a need for a rush of supply upon deployment. Eg, there are 9 planets in our wormhole system, we can probably trim down to using 5 of them. So we need 5 gantries and upgrade to 5 CO's. If we do not do this once you magically remove the CO's, we run out of POS fuel.
Great.
Other comments: If you allow ANY form of defence to be anchored around CO's this will remove the ability, in w-space, of ganking people's PI haulers. I say this because your average corp will anchor a dissy and some small AC batteries around the office, and this is enough to gank anything stupid enough to decloak within range of the CO. Just sayin'
Second, the HP's are not too great, but still ridiculous for griefing unless you run medium or large gangs. We regularly bash small towers and it is a minimum of 2 hours with 6-8 BS's for a small tower. Clearing out a system in w-space after removing a corp's POS will become ridonkulously boring.
The reinforce timer idea is unfortunate. This means people can set the RF to come out during their prime time, which is defacto a way of waging RF timer warfare AFK. Second, it would be better to make it use stront, because that will consume stront.
To all those whining about this nerfing the lone operators: train Corporations skills to level 1, start your own corp, fling your PI alt in there, and get to it. Or suck the PI costs.
I am afraid we have no plans to seed any customs offices, except of course in high sec. One purpose with this blog is to give awareness of the materials needed to produce the customs office and the gantry so that concerned people may buy or produce those materials in advance. the same goes for loyalty points, if you are concerned about for instance the BPC prices, try and get the required LP in advance.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
dbrummer wrote:I'm not sure I fully understand the mechanics of the Player Owned Customs Office. I'm part of a corp that lives out of NPC 0.0 space, how would this affect us? Are all of our existing PI installations going to be destroyed when this feature is enabled? If not, how do we get our goo off if there's no POCO anchored? I feel like we need more details on this change so we can fully understand the changes.
I'm like a few other people here and am very limited in my playing time but enjoy the passive income PI generates. If this change requires more time or makes it more difficult to make isk from PI then why use it? I'm just worried that the PI income I use to buy PvP ships will disappear.
Our ambition is that some entrepreneur will operate a COs in your system and thereby maintaining the service you currently enjoy. With some luck, the taxes will be lowered, with some bad luck they will be higher, but given that the market prices are likely to rise, you are probably going to make a good buck regardless. The main danger in your scenario is that you won't have access to the customs office, either if you are not meeting the standing requirements of the owner or if there simply is no CO there.
Regards Omen Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
gargars wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Rhavas wrote:Love the player-driven approach even if it is going to kill my income stream. Oh well, improvise, adapt, overcome.
Questions: 1) Looks like we can now launch and avoid customs (subject to ugly volume restrictions) - please confirm. 2) Courier contracts at customs offices? This is the feature really needed/lacking from PI production. Coming? 3) When does this go live? 4) Are you sending Vaseline to POS owners? They'll need it when we producers factor this in to fuel pricing... 1) confirmed 2) Not planned, good idea though 3) I'm not sure if I am at liberty to tell, but it's ready to go4) If it turns out to be too much of an upset, we will take action. OK I am still digesting this (and not liking what I hear so far in many ways) but want to ask why is it that this is 'ready to go' when as far as I know we never heard a word about this? Another implementation without player feedback IN ADVANCE.... really? Why even pretend to care about our opinions when the coding is obviously DONE? ('Ready to go').
We are ready to go when we have sifted through your feedback and made any necessary changes. For once we are not pressed for time, this is a good thing. The CSM were notified 2011.08.19 11:22:00, the design was shown to them and we made several tweaks as a result. If you want to see things UBER early the CSM is the place to be!
Regards Omen
I have asked our lovely community reps , and I can say this much about the release of this feature: between US Thanksgiving and Christmas
Game Designer Team Pi |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 20:56:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bodega Cat wrote:Can the Offices be named?
Oh I know the answer to this one - no you cannot name them (sorry).
Also, popping my dev post cherry. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 21:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Buruk Utama wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Bodega Cat wrote:Can the Offices be named? Oh I know the answer to this one - no you cannot name them (sorry). Also, popping my dev post cherry. You gota flip your picture port around. Your Dev banner covers your entire face
Probably for the best. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.19 09:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:Will editing reinforce timer/standings/tax of a Customs Office have to be done while right next to the customs office, so we have to fly to each CO the corp owns to update it if we change policies, or is there a central point where the corporation may manage all (or subsets of all) customs offices?
Confirming you can change reinforcement exit time, standings and tax rates remotely by viewing your customs offices in the corp assets screen. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.19 10:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jackie Fisher wrote:Will corporate wallet tax payment entries show which planets customs office they are for?
Yes.
Jackie Fisher wrote:Will there be any controls provided for which corporate wallet division the tax payments go into?
At the moment no, they go into the Master Wallet.
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.19 11:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:@ CCP Nullarbor, can you confirm if we will be able to set different access rights and tax rates for each level of standing? (i.e. terrible, bad, neutral, good, excellent)
Access rights are based on setting a minimum standing but currently the tax rate is the same for everyone who has access. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Daedalus II wrote:It's also extremely hard to find a good deal; maybe the system next door has much better taxes, but you have to manually fly there and check out every damn office to know that. What if you have hundreds of potential systems? it will take forever to check them all out.
Tax rate is available to you while you are in system but you can see them all on the overview so you don't need to actually fly up to each one. I will cite technical complexity as the reason it isn't initially available to everyone / everywhere but I can also see an argument for exploration as being part of the PI gameplay anyway.
Re comments about not responding, give us some time, today has been a particularly rough day at CCP. We did have a meeting this morning to discuss the many ideas and comments in this thread and some points are being acting on already so hang tight. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
Isabella Thresher wrote:q1: can we defend our customs office in lowsec without taking a standing hit?
Attacking a customs office in lowsec will give you GCC so anyone can shoot you, from the owning corp or otherwise.
Isabella Thresher wrote:q2: can we use the custom office on a corporate level now, or will it still be single player?
Everyone from the owning corp may use the customs office but the inventory inside it, like PI, are stored per player.
CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hundo Kay wrote:I have scanned the topics, and I still have not seen any response to the question of what happens to the PI goodies stored inside when the POCO goes Boom.
Do we get a drop like everything else at 50/50 for each item batch, or nothing?
This single question will determine the long term survivability of the POCO.
If the drop rate is 0% then when the newness of ganking these things wears off, they should become more stable.
If on the otherhand, there is a drop potential, I can see a lot more people having an incentive to not only knock these things around like Loot Pinatas, but also to maintain a small PvP force around them for the 24+ hours of reinforcement.
We already know people can still get their stuff out before it pops, but will there be an incentive to maintain a force at the POCO while popping it?
So please CCP, fill us in on the details of what happens when these things go "POP".
No drop, the items are just destroyed.
CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Hundo Kay wrote:I have scanned the topics, and I still have not seen any response to the question of what happens to the PI goodies stored inside when the POCO goes Boom.
Do we get a drop like everything else at 50/50 for each item batch, or nothing?
This single question will determine the long term survivability of the POCO.
If the drop rate is 0% then when the newness of ganking these things wears off, they should become more stable.
If on the otherhand, there is a drop potential, I can see a lot more people having an incentive to not only knock these things around like Loot Pinatas, but also to maintain a small PvP force around them for the 24+ hours of reinforcement.
We already know people can still get their stuff out before it pops, but will there be an incentive to maintain a force at the POCO while popping it?
So please CCP, fill us in on the details of what happens when these things go "POP". No drop, the items are just destroyed. For some reason you seem to be very selective with what you're choosing to answer, adeptly avoiding concerns.
I'm a programmer so sticking with what I know. Rest assured, we have been discussing all of the content in this thread with the design team the last 2 days and they have been taking notes and creating new tasks for us. We are listening.
CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1078
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Posted - 2011.10.20 22:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:If you're still reading this CCP...
Yes, still reading! I am also compiling a list of issues and concerns that you voiced in this thread. Really glad to see all the opinions, ideas and deep thoughts presented here, thank you.
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.21 06:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Will POCOs gives us kill-mails? it will be shown on killboards? ( Depending on the answer people will hunt them for fun or not )
Yes like POSs, POCOs generate kill mails. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1078
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Posted - 2011.10.21 11:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
As earlier mentioned, I was working on compiling a list of concerns with the current design of Player-owned Customs Offices (PCO). I am posting this list here, please have a look if I have missed anything important there.
Please note that I compiled this list regardless if I think the concerns are valid or not and especially regardless if those concerns are indeed valid or not. If you perceive something as a serious problem, then it should be in this list. If it is not, please notify me.
Please remember also that most of the people like the idea of more industry options, a more player governed game world with fewer artificial NPC interaction. There are also many people who like specifically the proposed changes. But this is not the topic of this list.
The responsible Dev team is really happy to have all your good and valuable feedback!
- User Interface not good enough
- Not enough flexibility at setting taxes for the different standing levels. Player suggestion here.
- Timestamp of tax collection in corp wallet could be used to collect intel on people doing PI.
- Tax management bad for large entities, necessary to include alliance level also.
- Finding GÇ£suitableGÇ¥ PCOs without going from system to system near impossible.
- Advertising tax rate for PCO and checking for competitors extremely difficult.
Problems during transition period No BPCs available before wipe of the existing Customs Offices, transition becomes very difficult. Disruption of PI due to the transition might become a major problem. Lack of Gantries and PCOs during the transition
Lowsec changes caters only griefing Lowsec will get devastated since every random group can bust PCOs without drawback Risk/Reward in Lowsec is completely wrong, no good enough profit from PI in Lowsec.
Nullsec changes only good for blobs and large groups Shuts out small groups from 0.0 as they canGÇÖt compete with big blobs Large 0.0 alliances will never allow independent small groups (as seen in the past) PCO owners wonGÇÖt allow access of neutrals, this encourages only big blobs Supercap blob heaven shooting up those defenceless structures
Bad effects on other industries PI prices will increase drastically, affecting POS owners heavily, making it more difficult for the small/new people
Wormholes Reinforcement timer in Wormholes too long for roaming gangs to do any serious damage Transition in Wormholes will be especially difficult without prior BPC release Wormhole corporations will lock out everyone else, no Ninja-PI possible
Pricelevels are off, PCOs will be unprofitable PCOs will be unprofitable and not worth the invested time and especially ISK Income from PCOs will be too low to justify the build costs and risk deploying them Taxrate will be either near 0 or near 100 Taxes in Highsec for P4 products too high
Worries about general mechanics Only one PCO per planet is not good enough and hinders competition. Too big changes with not enough thoughts being put into the resulting effects on the sandbox as whole Defenceless PCOs are bad and encourage random griefing and no GÇÿconstructiveGÇÖ destruction Transport rocket from player surface is not large enough to prevent being locked out prom planets P4 producers are especially hit hard when no PCO is around, rocket wonGÇÖt help here
Change of playstyle to more blobbing and griefing, hurting small people Encourages blobbing Discourages small gang warfare Hurts the small people most, benefits large blobs most Encourages griefing a lot as there is no risk in attacking PCOs Easy griefing PCOs discourages constructive gameplay Giving away control to people who do not really care about it GÇô heavy grief play results. Lowsec/Nullsec exclusively for corps and alliances only now More boring structure shooting and grinding Extremely asymmetric , catering to the attackers and griefers Forces people into corporations if they want to do PCO, big change of playstyle
Bad for casual gameplay Hurts the casual player since they normally wonGÇÖt get the required corp roles to deploy PCOs PI changes from low risk, low income to high risk, very boring, medium income Why roles at all for POCs? That only hurts casual games without roles
Details of the structures Size of the gantry is bad, it doesnGÇÖt fit into all racial blockade runners. Either make it small enough to fit into all blockade runners or large enough that it doesnGÇÖt fit into any runner
List updates marked in italics. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1078
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
I have updated the list of player concerns to reflect more feedback.
Please remember that there are a lot of good ideas in this thread also. You folks bring really constructive feedback! CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Meldan Anstian wrote:It takes some time to anchor a gantry, and then more time to upgrade it to a customs office. How much hasn't been announced I don't think.
60 seconds to anchor, 20 seconds to bring online.
Meldan Anstian wrote:Nothing has been said about the defenses of a gantry, other than hit points. Does a gantry go into reinforcement mode like a CO? Is a gantry vulnerable while it's being upgraded? How long does it take to upgrade a gantry to a customs office? What happens if your gantry is being upgraded and then is put into reinforced mode? Does upgrading cease until RF mode ends?
They are invulnerable during anchoring but not onlining. 10,000,000 shield HP for the gantry and no RF timer. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1078
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Posted - 2011.10.23 15:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:So CCP here are 67 pages of feedback
Are you still reading and what are your conclusions
Yes, we are still following this thread. I have compiled a list of player concerns which I have updated several times. The responsible Devteam has answered quite a lot of questions so far also.
The feedback is good and constructive here, exactly of that sort which is most valuable. Thank you very much!
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.23 18:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
Max Devious wrote:Only question I still have not seen answered is how my standings are going to be affected by killing one of these LowSec structures, and will I be on an aggression timer afterwards.
You get a security status hit for aggressing / destroying one in lowsec and will be on GCC. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.24 10:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
Scarlett Ninja wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Max Devious wrote:Only question I still have not seen answered is how my standings are going to be affected by killing one of these LowSec structures, and will I be on an aggression timer afterwards. You get a security status hit for aggressing / destroying one in lowsec and will be on GCC. I think we are all wasting our time here folks............the only answers that CCP are giving are like the one above, it seems POCO's are going to be rolled out as in the original blog otherwise how would a DEV be able to answer this question as definitely as this? If there was any doubt as to the final implementation the answer would have been worded differently and also note that this is on page 68, so they already know of peoples concerns! Scarlett Ninja over and out.........going to find something else to do :(
No I am just giving the answers I know for sure. Some other changes are in the pipe but aren't finalized. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.25 18:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Meldan Anstian wrote:Creat Posudol wrote:You misunderstood me completely there. I was saying that if the ATTACKERS (!!!) split up to attack multiple POCOs, putting one attacker at each non-primary target just for the mail(s) to cover the primary attack (as you suggested), then those lone attackers could be easily picked off one by one if the defenders do manage to get even a small defense fleet together. Nobody is gonna defend anything unless it is upon reinforcement exit, there are no defenders in your case! Also throughout your replies you constantly seem to think that the increased interaction is supposed to occur at this point in the first place. It isn't - as I've already stated as well. That is what reinforcement is for, to have a time and a place to meet and have "interaction" If someone decides to shoot some POCOs just to generate some mails, let him. Who cares? Unless the POCO is reinforced nobody is gonna move. You can try to drop by if you happen to be in the vicinity, but just wait for him to reinforce it, and either fight him upon reinforcement exit, or rep up the shields enough so that reinforcement resets. Who cares about a couple of (or couple of dozen) mails? Ahh, I understand better now. There is no reason for a lone player to attack a PCO and stick around awaiting a response from defenders. The purpose of him was to create confusion and generate uncertainty.
We put in a change today so that mails wont be generated unless you do at least some significant amount of damage. A lone rifter doing a drive by won't trigger it, because that would be annoying. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.25 19:23:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Meldan Anstian wrote:Creat Posudol wrote:You misunderstood me completely there. I was saying that if the ATTACKERS (!!!) split up to attack multiple POCOs, putting one attacker at each non-primary target just for the mail(s) to cover the primary attack (as you suggested), then those lone attackers could be easily picked off one by one if the defenders do manage to get even a small defense fleet together. Nobody is gonna defend anything unless it is upon reinforcement exit, there are no defenders in your case! Also throughout your replies you constantly seem to think that the increased interaction is supposed to occur at this point in the first place. It isn't - as I've already stated as well. That is what reinforcement is for, to have a time and a place to meet and have "interaction" If someone decides to shoot some POCOs just to generate some mails, let him. Who cares? Unless the POCO is reinforced nobody is gonna move. You can try to drop by if you happen to be in the vicinity, but just wait for him to reinforce it, and either fight him upon reinforcement exit, or rep up the shields enough so that reinforcement resets. Who cares about a couple of (or couple of dozen) mails? Ahh, I understand better now. There is no reason for a lone player to attack a PCO and stick around awaiting a response from defenders. The purpose of him was to create confusion and generate uncertainty. We put in a change today so that mails wont be generated unless you do at least some significant amount of damage. A lone rifter doing a drive by won't trigger it, because that would be annoying. When should we be hearing from yourself or CCP Phantom (or even CCP Omen) regarding other adjustments that have been made/ will be made?
I believe Omen is working on another dev blog to explain some more changes and reiterate some of the answers we have given in this thread. No ETA on that just yet, as it depends on making sure we can actually get it all done first. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.26 10:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
steave435 wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Meldan Anstian wrote:Creat Posudol wrote:You misunderstood me completely there. I was saying that if the ATTACKERS (!!!) split up to attack multiple POCOs, putting one attacker at each non-primary target just for the mail(s) to cover the primary attack (as you suggested), then those lone attackers could be easily picked off one by one if the defenders do manage to get even a small defense fleet together. Nobody is gonna defend anything unless it is upon reinforcement exit, there are no defenders in your case! Also throughout your replies you constantly seem to think that the increased interaction is supposed to occur at this point in the first place. It isn't - as I've already stated as well. That is what reinforcement is for, to have a time and a place to meet and have "interaction" If someone decides to shoot some POCOs just to generate some mails, let him. Who cares? Unless the POCO is reinforced nobody is gonna move. You can try to drop by if you happen to be in the vicinity, but just wait for him to reinforce it, and either fight him upon reinforcement exit, or rep up the shields enough so that reinforcement resets. Who cares about a couple of (or couple of dozen) mails? Ahh, I understand better now. There is no reason for a lone player to attack a PCO and stick around awaiting a response from defenders. The purpose of him was to create confusion and generate uncertainty. We put in a change today so that mails wont be generated unless you do at least some significant amount of damage. A lone rifter doing a drive by won't trigger it, because that would be annoying. When can that be applied to POS/SBU and probably station/ihub mechanics? :D
Yeah potentially, might see how it plays out with COs first. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.10.26 21:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
Max O'Deel wrote:So CCP do you intend to reimburse all the corps who live and have a POS in WH space when you realise too late that they should have been able to deploy defences to protect them. If you like to have a natural balance in EVE the structures in WH need to be governed by different parameters. POINT 1. there is usually only one corp in a WH they are not going to be able to tax anyone except themselves,(so where is their revenue).
POINT 2. unlike anywhere else in EVE where gangs/fleets can very very quickly and easily be formed to defend a structure. The random access mechanics WH makes, defending them unrealistic. (yes I know if it is attacked you can spend, oh say an hour scanning a way out in order that your team of defenders can fly back in, WOW! all, whilst your POCO's is being attacked, then if you are very, very lucky, you might just save it.
POINT 3. If these BPCGÇÖs are only available via DED/Concord stores have you thought about those who canGÇÖt access them thus leaving corp POSGÇÖs unable to obtain the items to function. At least give them a fighting chance and seed them at most stations in EVE even if they cost a bit more there. I doubt any one minds them being destructible however they MUST have at least minimum auto defences. in WH space the corp numbers just are not the same as in Low/Null and High sec.
Please stop this application of two dimensional thought ( NULL SEC vs EMPIRE) you created WH space with parameters differing from those two so please THINK and realise the POCO's need to be different from both of them.
Dont get me wrong the concept is great, it's just, well not really thought out fully. this is potentially a global, sorry universal POS wrecker that no fleet of dreadnaughts ever achieved.
POCOs have a reinforce timer like POSs, however unlike POSs you don't need to fuel it. You get to choose the hour which it comes out of reinforce giving you advance notice and the opportunity to align it for when your corp is most active.
We are expecting BPCs and the built gantrys to be sold on the open market by those players who have loyalty points. The more entrepreneurial players out there would already be thinking about ways to get hold of more loyalty points before hand to make the most of the initial demand. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
336
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Posted - 2011.11.02 21:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
olsted wrote:So here we are over two weeks since the devblog. There has been a substantial amount of feedback regarding the implementation. We've seen evidence of CCP listening (or atleast taking notes).
Wheres the v2 of the draft of this idea that addresses the raised (and enumerated) concerns either through "you're right were gonna fix that" or "thats not a concern for us at this time" point by point?
Communication is a 2 way street and other than someone taking notes im not seeing any responses here.
(unless you count the nifty videos about art in development... Im pretty sure theres a shiny monkey in em if you look closely enough!"
Thanks, -O.
We have a follow up devblog drafted and are just waiting on confirmation to some changes before releasing more details. No promises, but maybe early next week?
Besides, you should be busy gawking over new BCs anyway CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1078
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Posted - 2011.11.09 19:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Nullabor - any updates to report? There are a lot of REAL concerns here that seem to be getting ignored. For one, I really can't believe you think simply removing all the customs offices without allowing any sort of ramp up time for people to buy the BPs, manufacture the PCOs and move them into place is in any way a good idea. You're simply breaking PI during what may be a long transition cycle for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You're really screwing a ton of people over heavily if you follow that ill-advised path to destruction.
Just to chime in and mentioning that this thread isn't forgotten or abandoned by the devs. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1078
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Posted - 2011.11.12 11:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:Can we be given a follow up blog on this?
Look to its coming on the first light of the third day, at dawn look to the ... err, yes, early next week!
Also big thanks to the Team Pi and their extra work in many additional night shifts. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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